Article: Philosophical Motivations of Types by V. Gulenko

[silke]

You can view the page at http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Types-Gulenko

[Adam Strange]

I believe there is a typo in section 4. The Inspector should be type (SLI), not (LSI), and the Craftsman should be type (LSI), not (SLI).

[Pookie]

Inspector is Lsi, Craftsman Sli.

[ouronis]

No typo

[silke]

The original says Inspector is LSI, Craftman is SLI: http://socionics.kiev.ua/article/garant/

Plug this text into google translator:

— Инспектор (LF, ЛСИ): миром правит порядок, дисциплина. Наиболее зависящий от организации конкретного пространства социотип, всецело подчиняющийся заведенной системе. Любая крупная альтернатива отвергается, поскольку отход от отработанной структуры для него равносилен потере точки опоры, неуправляемому хаосу.
...
— Мастер (SP, СЛИ): миром правит польза. В соответствии со своей философией он сам ничего для себя бесполезного делать не станет и другим никогда не предложит. Принцип наименьшего действия, по которому живет физический мир, — это его принцип. Как наиболее технологично мыслящий тип, он полагает, что главный аргумент — это апелляция к здравому смыслу человека.

[Myst]

Adam Strange: read up on socionics more, I'm no craftsman for sure.

[Enoch]

Excellent article!

[Jarno]

I believe there is a typo in section 4. The Inspector should be type (SLI), not (LSI), and the Craftsman should be type (LSI), not (SLI).

amateur

:-)

[Adam Strange]

Adam Strange: read up on socionics more, I'm no craftsman for sure.

Hi, Myst and silke.
I'm only basing my statement on two things.
One, in Myers-Briggs, the ISTJ (SLI) is an Inspector and the ISTP (LSI) is a craftsman, and
Two - I lived with a woman (and loved her) who was an LSI, and she kept a portable electric rotary saw in the trunk of her car before starting a small farm and building her own house and outbuildings, and I was married for many years to an SLI, and she inspected everything, including computer programs she and others designed at the University and getting into my tax returns and calling the IRS about things she didn't understand about them before we were married. My ex-wife couldn't nail two boards together.

Here is a video about the ISTP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55LmENGRd58 Note the use of the word "Craftsman" in the first 40 seconds.

Here is a video about the ISTJ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_SB6AbFyb4 Note the use of the word "Inspector" in the first 40 seconds.

Yes, I know that Myers-Briggs is not Socionics blah blah blah....... I just lived with both types for a long time. What do I know?

Is there a possibility that the original article has a misprint? Just a small possibility? Maybe? What do you think? I know that articles that are published in foreign journals by humans never have misprints, but maybe there was a warp in the space-time continuum and the article didn't make it through the fiber optic links intact.

In all fairness, I could be wrong. But before I believe that, I will need some corroborative evidence. Not just, you need to "read up on Socionics more", please. Where are the links which support your belief? I'll be happy to read them, and to change my mind if the evidence supports it.

[ouronis]

Hi, Myst and silke.
I'm only basing my statement on two things.
One, in Myers-Briggs, the ISTJ (SLI) is an Inspector and the ISTP (LSI) is a craftsman, and
Two - I lived with a woman (and loved her) who was an LSI, and she kept a portable electric rotary saw in the trunk of her car before starting a small farm and building her own house and outbuildings, and I was married for many years to an SLI, and she inspected everything, including computer programs she and others designed at the University and getting into my tax returns and calling the IRS about things she didn't understand about them before we were married. My ex-wife couldn't nail two boards together.

Here is a video about the ISTP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55LmENGRd58 Note the use of the word "Craftsman" in the first 40 seconds.

Here is a video about the ISTJ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_SB6AbFyb4 Note the use of the word "Inspector" in the first 40 seconds.

Yes, I know that Myers-Briggs is not Socionics blah blah blah....... I just lived with both types for a long time. What do I know?

Is there a possibility that the original article has a misprint? Just a small possibility? Maybe? What do you think? I know that articles that are published in foreign journals by humans never have misprints, but maybe there was a warp in the space-time continuum and the article didn't make it through the fiber optic links intact.

In all fairness, I could be wrong. But before I believe that, I will need some corroborative evidence. Not just, you need to "read up on Socionics more", please. Where are the links which support your belief? I'll be happy to read them, and to change my mind if the evidence supports it.

Sorry, don't have any links for you, but the ego IEs of each are conducive to the titles. LSI is inspector because they use Se to check up on a Ti system(vision of the world) and SLI is craftsman because they use Te to support a Si understanding(more pragmatic).

[Myst]

Hi, Myst and silke.
I'm only basing my statement on two things.
One, in Myers-Briggs, the ISTJ (SLI) is an Inspector and the ISTP (LSI) is a craftsman, and

Argh, don't mix two separate models mindlessly like that. MBTI != Socionics. This is why I said you need to read up on Socionics. Yep. You do need to do so. Forget MBTI while you do that.

Btw, I type TiSe in MBTI too but I fucking hate that stupid craftsman label, it's so totally not me. Ah, fuck all these typology labels, they are all silly.

Two - I lived with a woman (and loved her) who was an LSI, and she kept a portable electric rotary saw in the trunk of her car before starting a small farm and building her own house and outbuildings, and I was married for many years to an SLI, and she inspected everything, including computer programs she and others designed at the University and getting into my tax returns and calling the IRS about things she didn't understand about them before we were married. My ex-wife couldn't nail two boards together.

Lol if I had to choose between these two then I'm much more like your ex wife. But I'm LSI for sure. I'd die from boredom doing that farming thing. I don't care about that sort of shit. Not saying LSI can't be interested in that but I'm not. Just to increase your incredibly small sample. Two people as a sample is meaningless if to be used as evidence for anything except if to refute a statement and I do agree that the labels are bollocks .

Is there a possibility that the original article has a misprint? Just a small possibility? Maybe? What do you think? I know that articles that are published in foreign journals by humans never have misprints, but maybe there was a warp in the space-time continuum and the article didn't make it through the fiber optic links intact.

No, no such small possibility. In socionics the labels are different than in MBTI. Again, I want to emphasize that I think all these typology labels are silly and too often meaningless. It's just clear that you've never read any socionics type descriptions before. So the suggestion to read up on it was quite relevant.

I like the irony in your joke though

In all fairness, I could be wrong. But before I believe that, I will need some corroborative evidence. Not just, you need to "read up on Socionics more", please. Where are the links which support your belief? I'll be happy to read them, and to change my mind if the evidence supports it.

The corroborative evidence you will find when reading up on Socionics more. Good luck. You will find links below where I highlighted the point copying from the articles.

Links:
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=LSI Logical Sensing Introtim, LSI, , ISTj, LF, Inspector, Pragmatist, or archetype Maxim Gorky.
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=SLI Sensing Logical Introtim, SLI, , ISTp, SP, Craftsman, Artisan, or archetype Jean Gabin.

[Jarno]

Hi, Myst and silke.
I'm only basing my statement on two things.
One, in Myers-Briggs, the ISTJ (SLI) is an Inspector and the ISTP (LSI) is a craftsman, and

you switched J and P.

The ISTP is called crafsman in mbti, and the SLI is called the mechanic in socionics. they are the same types.
The ISTJ is called the inspector in both theories i think.

anyways i don't want to go in that discussion anymore. i've said it, that's enough.

[Chae]

Fascinating views. @AbZero @unsuccessfull Alphamale have a look at this article^

And everyone else seeing this, do you relate?

[Hope]

I believe there is a typo in section 4. The Inspector should be type (SLI), not (LSI), and the Craftsman should be type (LSI), not (SLI).

Its an old post, so I hope you don't still believing that because the article is perfectly correct. If your ex fits better in the inspector, then she's LSI. I'm totally the SLI, I always appeal to common sense and I don't do anything that I see as useless.

My brother is LSI…we are extremely similar on appearance and personality. The differences are in our values...he's pretty Beta and he basically live according social conventions, and I don't. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't seek for his own convenience too. He's fiercely individualistic, not so cooperative (not caregiver tendencies at all, mostly aggressive in his daily interactions), while I'm tons more helpful and cooperative at home.

Also not saying that I'm a savage or something …but for sure ppl is surprised sometimes by my awkwardness and lack of social awareness. I just do what's necessary and I live skipping unnecessary stuff…like going to school for learning things or having a nice car. You don't know how much society (like friends or social: groups, status, image) is important for him (and how unimportant are for me), he's at the point of being under stress for not looking successful enough or not fulfilling the social standards (Fe value)...while I couldn't care less.

Also he is lost and angry when not having a structure...in work, projects etc. Which is the opposite of me. I feel trapped and annoyed by structure, specially when its full of unnecessary (stupid) patterns, requirements or conventions that suffocate my individuality and will.

Basically his life is routinely tidy while mine is routinely messy. Like he wake up everyday at the same hour, eats the same stuff, works at the same place, go to gym at the same hour, talks to the same friends...that kind of things that I don't do.

I do what I feel like doing when I feel like doing it, according my own personal convictions.

Thats basically the difference between J and P, rational/irrational dichotomy... That Js live in a much more structured/organized/planned life while Ps live in a much more spontaneous/adaptative/disorganized way.

[The Reality Denialist]

- The Inventor (ILE): the universe is ruled by a universal intelligence. This sociotype more than others believes in ability of human mind to comprehend the most complex phenomena, in intelligent design of the objective world, in that it can be explained from the point of view of precise laws of logic. ("God does not play dice" - Einstein)

Information is spread out and is able to decipher itself where it is organized like in brains or processors... and where we can find or process repeating trends and patterns. Maybe to a point.

Something to add: We can outsource processing and reap the fruits.

It's kind of ode for classical mechanics.

Pretty much like me.

[PrettySavage]

I relate to both LIE and ESE, but in different fronts. LIE is how I see the world around me, ESE how I see my world. Both material and spiritual seem to have the same importance and weight to me, but personal interest and necessity drive the vast majority of where my attention and efforts go to. Unless at least of of those instincts are ignite, you'd be hard pressed getting me into anything.

[The Reality Denialist]

I relate to both LIE and ESE, but in different fronts. LIE is how I see the world around me, ESE how I see my world. Both material and spiritual seem to have the same importance and weight to me, but personal interest and necessity drive the vast majority of where my attention and efforts go to. Unless at least of of those instincts are ignite, you'd be hard pressed getting me into anything.

Super-egos have similar pattern but they look at it from opposite ends.

I tend to resist external pressure (like just paying attention) just like SEEs. The problem is that I can't go easily both ways.

[Exodus]

It would help to know what year these articles are from. It seems Gulenko's views have changed considerably over the years.

[Aylen]

- The Lyricist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy [perhaps possible] to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it

- The Critic (ILI): the world is governed by chance. Objective measures do not exist. Everything is relative and determined by probability. This type is most predisposed towards agnosticism of the intellect ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clarity and tranquility that can be achieved via meditation [trance].

- The Mentor (EIE): god, fate, destiny rule the world. This type is one of the most oriented at mysticism and religion, honestly believing in its own messiahood, seeing itself as a missionary for forces cosmic or divine.

- The Reconciler (EII): the world is ruled by kindness. The type that is most predisposed to compassion, even if its words and feelings are not realized as actions. This type has idealistic notions about kindness and fairness and that if everybody abides by these notions in everyday life this will lead towards a more humanitarian society. However, these have to come from the depths of individual's soul rather than be imposed from the outside.

- The Psychologist (IEE): world is governed by a feeling that is more powerful than the individual; this is one of the most altruistic types that is capable of helping people not asking for anything in return. This type has a strong predisposition for empathy.

.

[Pallas]

Types of actual philosophers according to this article:

Plato - LII
Aristotle - LSI
Nietzsche - SLE
Schopenhauer - ESE
Kant - ESI
Goethe - LIE
Schiller - SEI
William James - SLI
Dostoevsky - EIE
Tolstoy - EII
Marx - LSE

You can understand anyone and anything easily this way. Typology and everything else is settled, final

Now, which philosophy is correct according to the philosophy of MBTI?

[Aramas]

How about this: the world is governed by nothing.

[Pallas]

How about this: the world is governed by nothing.

blasphemy

[Limitless]

Types of actual philosophers according to this article:

Plato - LII
Aristotle - LSI
Nietzsche - SLE
Schopenhauer - ESE
Kant - ESI
Goethe - LIE
Schiller - SEI
William James - SLI
Dostoevsky - EIE
Tolstoy - EII
Marx - LSE

You can understand anyone and anything easily this way. Typology and everything else is settled, final

Now, which philosophy is correct according to the philosophy of MBTI?

EDIT: I really, really like the approach that corresponding personality types correspond to a philosophy unique to the individual. Yet my opinion below is my opinion, I guess.


Wow, sorry, but this suggests the article is very wrong. Id say the only philosopher whose work really meshes truly with persnoality is Kierkegaard with e 4, and maybe iei, and that is a very strong relationship because of his reasoning.

[nyessss]

I've said it once before and I'll say it again. Le monke philos is quite possibly the most vexing question of our time

[Limitless]

I've said it once before and I'll say it again. Le monke philos is quite possibly the most vexing question of our time

you go man

[wacey]

I've said it once before and I'll say it again. Le monke philos is quite possibly the most vexing question of our time

[para]

I probably relate mostly to the ILI description, especially the notion of 'agnosticism of the intellect'

[Aramas]

blasphemy

The thing the world is governed by, for me at least, is physical law. I can't see any problem with that idea, and yet it doesn't seem to be one of the options.

[para]

I think that there is a clear difference between analysing how the world is governed, and analysing how to become one with it, to be apart of the stream. To me, the first one is human overconfidence that discards humility while the second is not.