The best teachers/professors
In your opinion what type do you think make the best teachers/professors and why?
I've had my fair share of great/bad teachers.
However, one thing I've noticed is that the most brilliant teachers/professors didn't necessarily mean they could convey that information best in a learning environment.
I have some types in mind but I wanted to hear yalls input
LIE
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
In terms of instincts I would say Sx/so.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Identicals and Mirrors will be the best teachers to an individual, so I think it very much depends on the typing of the student.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
My favorite teacher was an IEE and my second favorite teacher was an SLI. I think preference is dependent on type. As for skill as a teacher, it depends on the subject being taught.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
For me, it is...
LSE 1w2 SO/SP.
Why?
Highly competent and group-inclined, will look out for our well-being. Preoccupied, immersed in all topics. A teacher must be psychologically resilient and exert authority + guidance in times of need properly so they can't be a doormat - LSE provides exactly that. Needs high level of perfectionism to inspire passion for the subject, a 50-50 teacher won't bring it! Not attuned to emotion but facts and getting things done. Knows when to let the students rest, will never push too hard to get someone uncomfortable and anxious. Very organized and structured, will encourage students to do the same. Practical tips all day. Will fact-check, will be accurate, no improvising. If he or she arrives late it's no issue as the students know what to be busy with alreadyNeeds to be open to new unconventional insights and progressive attitudes instead. Takes care of themselves (you don't want a smelling teacher who arrives half dead and drunk, I've had that). Strict to a reasonable degree, and task-oriented. Can even have an endearing charm and will always help someone out.
EIE's hands down. Warm, high emotional intelligence and empathy, passionate about the subject, interested in students as people, interesting engaging orators, ...
In my (rather short) experience, the type of teacher I liked the most is EIE. This is because I absolutely don't like when the one who teaches is severe or even aggressive (and
Ego), as I just can't study in a bad atmosphere (I mean, studying is something you should like, there is no need to "fear" it). I noticed that I need someone who makes me love what I'm studying, and a
Ego seems to fit best these condition. Talking about Enneagram, I think 2w1, but I'm not sure.
KEEP IT LIGHT AND KEEP IT MOVING
Depends on the type of the student.
My two worst teachers (not school) ever were LIEs.
Reasons:
- don't explain well...if at all.
- Prefer quick results over expertise.
- empty and overoptimistic promises
- don't sweat the small stuff -> they just hoped that all important details magically fall into place and that I'll understand everything on my own somehow.
- impatient and don't understand my perspective on things
- no feeling for my progress. Overestimated or underestimated me on wrong moments.
- sudden changes in behavior or new ideas/teaching methods and therefore disruptive to my learning curve
LSEs, SLIs and ILEs are best for me.
LSE and SLI: we speak the same language.
ILEs know a lot and can explain it in an interesting and simple way (Ne-Ti).
LSIs are ok, too, but can be a pain in the ass in case you are dealing with an individual who takes himself to seriously and loves to make a big deal about every little detail, followed by endless discussions. Which is still better than Si-Polr imo. I had an EIE teacher in school but I don't remember whether I disliked him for being a prick or for his teaching style. That guy thought he knew everything but could not explain anything in an understandable way. He usually left a big questionmark in the room once class was over. Obviously not all EIEs are like that but I don't support the idea that EIEs are the best mentors in socionics.
ESEs...just no.
I think SEEs are underestimated in teaching positions. Yes they have Ti-Polr but they can be great mentors when it comes to facts and experience. They might err on the facts part once the subject becomes more emotional. Still they excel in life advice and can be found in science and engineering. They give complements and praise your progress. They can appear too domineering to other types though. Same goes for SLEs.
My favorite teacher in school was IEE (arts) but more because of the subject. Same weaknesses as SEEs.
Second favorite was IEI philosophy teacher. Not as strict as LSI/SLE and more knowledgeable than the EIEs I know.
Nothing particullar about SEIs from my perspective. No experience with LIIs or EIIs.
I think I prefer LII as teacher. They are always relevant and they keep things as simple as possible.
Worst teacher: SLI
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
My favorite teacher was a high school English teacher I think was IEE because she noticed somehow that I was depressed and got me alone to say I could always talk to her. Even though I was an awkward little butthole and like "uh ok whatever bye" about it, it really stuck with me because I felt like nobody noticed or cared. She was sort of overly involved and got some flak for it but she had a good heart.
I can't think of many other teachers that have stood out in my memory enough to retrospectively type them except for a probable Ni creative English professor I had a crush on even though he was a pompous fuck. He gestured with his hands like claws while he talked and it was hot.
My least favorite teachers were the ones who droned on monotonously, whatever they were, probably logical of some kind.
I've learned the most from other LIE's, but it was always in a business setting, not school.
I've been told that I would make a good teacher (usually after explaining something that I really understand to someone), and my LSE mother was a grade-school teacher, but I never wanted to go into teaching as a profession.
First of all, it doesn't pay well, even with three months off. Two, anyone younger than 20 is going to be problematic for me (I'll bet there are almost zero LIE teachers outside colleges or universities). Three, I'd teach them what I believe to be the true and most useful view of how things work, and that is pretty far from the standard curriculum. (Ever notice how history stops in the US at WW II? No mention of US imperialism, colonial wars, the role of US control of world resources in international politics, how money influences government policies more than popular voting, etc.)
I can also clearly see the flaws in the LIE teaching style that @Cosmic Teapot pointed out, which illustrates the fact that my teaching style is ideal for transferring information to other LIE's and almost no one else.
So, on to other things.....
Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-18-2017 at 10:28 PM.
@Adam Strange the LIEs I know needed the following things to become good teachers
(imo obv. And sorry if you know all of this already. I don't want to lecture anyone on this. I only wish I had known this sooner.)
- respect that you can't teach people anything. You can give them information and explain how things work but then they have to practice on their own. And that needs time. A lot time. And there are no shortcuts, no hackers no I-learn-this-the-nigh-before-shit. True knowledge needs patience and consistency.
- small steps. No one stumbles over mountains.
- during lessons: don't talk about personal stuff. People need to focus and especially when learning new things 100% focus is crucial. That's why repetition is so important. We need to train new things over and over until our brain knows how to access that knowledge without thinking about it. Like bicycling.
What they were good at:
- encouragement
- own competence and wide range of knowledge that is oriented at practical implementation and interesting projects
- good mentors once student has advanced understanding of the subject
- can work well with criticism and don't take things personally
- are patient with longterm results (but impatient with small steps - weird mix)
- endurance and optimism
- give you a chance to prove yourself (ungodly important)
I don't think that LIEs are generally bad at teaching. They just need to learn how.
I was a private tutor for about seven years and the plateau-approach worked pretty well for them. That being said, all of my tutoring students were introverts with some amount of self-motivation and were from stable families (healthy emotional environment). Especially when you know your students for so long an emotional part comes into play. That's where feelings types have an advantage imo.
The only student where I failed was an SLE. Not because he was dumb (no child is dumb - they're brilliant once you give them a chance) but because he was too smart. He was 9 and already knew that our education system kinda sucks. He always asked why he had to learn some things (obviously useless topics) and when I could not give him a satisfying answer he refused to learn. No clue how IEIs work with this.
IEI's generally handle this by not getting married. I've heard so many IEI's say that they don't get along with their duals. Or if they do get married, they marryOriginally Posted by Cosmic Teapot
1. LSE's, then get divorced in less than two years.
2. ILE's, then get divorced in less than 20 years.
3. IEI's, then find out he has Aids and get divorced or become widows.
It's a hard life.
I've sometimes thought I should start a thread on the average relative happiness of each dual pair. Offhand, I'd put LSE-EII at the top and SLE-IEI at the bottom, or maybe LII-ESE goes there, but what about the rest?
My worst was EIE, my best was LII. I don't think I ever had an ILI teacher.
Yes we do. But from my own perspective Id still prefer SEI over SLI. Mainly becausr of Ti valuing. More openness to explanation and understanding.Lol you SEIs suck, too
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Why do you think so many teachers are EIE? Because they are.
Compare ESE and EIE teachers! Whos better? Well EIEs are.
When teaching you have to relate to the unknown and process knowledge. Intuitives are better at this.
To become a dedicated teacher you have to have some natural talent underneath.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
It depends on topic. There are unqualified teachers who can not do math and still teach it... Receiving end smells it in no time. That is very bad. You need to have ability to improvise coherently what you teach.
Some have enjoyed my math and science lessons.
If someone wants dense and fast introduction with problem solving mindset... I'll deliver it.
That said when things go beyond that I prefer to approach situations on individual basis based on how they think.
Never going to go towards arts or I'll butcher whole field.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
when it comes to math and logic ILE has been godlike in making it interesting has been my experience
i find taking classes in those subjects very tiring, but they really do make it tolerable
they know how to home in on what the individual is really needing which I think its the number 1 problem in those topics, where other instructors will just repeat themselves, ILE knows what you're asking even if you're not stating it correctly
which is what takes it from completely futile and disheartening to a positive experience, because they can uplift their students, i.e.: actually teach
SEI is great at teaching practical skills. I was trained as a waiter by SEI and we became fast friends. I attribute a lot of my success to his insight and guidance. I would always brag "so and so trained me!" whenever anyone complemented me, because I started out totally awful, without exaggeration, the worst
he took the equivalent of the 2nd grade math level to college level
It was totally true what you said. SEIs suck at teaching. Ive worked as a teacher myself part time. I sucked at everything exept encouraging students to participate and practse their skills in class. At that i was quite good but its not enough. Teaching is a very difficult thing
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Doesn't sound LIE.
- LIE is extremely good at grasping the factual essence, workings, necessities, and framework of something and hence explaining what it's about and what you need to do.
-creative still has a sense of timing, LIE will wait if necessary. They can pace things expertly if they want.
- And Ep person might not keep what they promise - Ej though is very reliable. Optimistic and opportunistic yes, LIE is like that. But
- They might ignorebut it's still strong. If the small minutia are needed for the result LIE will mind them. Look at how @Adam Strange explains stuff, he goes into details quite a lot!
- Again,
- 4Dcan and will understand your perspective.
- If LIE cannot estimate a progress, nobody can
-
-
The two teachers probably were another type, what you said at least did not seem LIE. Maybe they were SEE or something? You criticized lack of
Everyone knows from reading the descriptions how LIEs or any other type are supposed to be in theory.- LIE is extremely good at grasping the factual essence, workings, necessities, and framework of something and hence explaining what it's about and what you need to do.
- creative still has a sense of timing, LIE will wait if necessary. They can pace things expertly if they want.
See positivist type and promising more than they can deliver.- And Ep person might not keep what they promise - Ej though is very reliable.
"opportunistic " where did I say that?Optimistic and opportunistic yes, LIE is like that. But still adds a strong dose of realism.
- They might ignore but it's still strong. If the small minutia are needed for the result LIE will mind them. Look at how @Adam Strange explains stuff, he goes into details quite a lot!
Since when is Optimistic + opportunistic + might ignore = strong dose of realism?
Explaining stuff well =/= teaching someone well. As @Tallmo said. Teaching is difficult. Personally, I think it's an art for itself and the right teacher student combination is crucial. You missed that part completely.
understanding someone's perspective and needs is emotional intelligence and that differs from individual to individual.- Again, creative. Unless LIE experiences urgency (which happens often, surely), impatience is rather something an LSE or SLE exhibits, with 4D and thrown together.
- 4D can and will understand your perspective.
BS- If LIE cannot estimate a progress, nobody can
theory =/= reality- ego overestimating or underestimating you in a wrong moment? Not credible.
- isn't valued, LIE follows a very clear path even if they consider all other directions quite often. Again, sudden changes are especially Ep temperament-related.
LIEs don't follow a clear path. Read about how Elon Musk oversaw the production of the Roadster. His behavior cost the company months because he was a) not always there and had other projects, b) failed to communicate in time, c) had always new ideas, last minute changes and own plans. He did not keep the time table at all and frustrated his coworkers. It resulted in a production process that meant two steps forward, one back. Now imagine a teacher who does the same with his student.
There is an example of a very good LIE teacher: Richard Feynman.
But he does not represent all LIEs. Musk does not either. That is what I mean by "individuals" and where descriptions fail to refelct the complexity of real people with different strengths, interests and upbringing.
No, you completely missed the point. Those were the the two LIEs I am always talking about when I describe LIEs. And so far you never had a problem with it.The two teachers probably were another type, what you said at least did not seem LIE. Maybe they were SEE or something? You criticized lack of and in particular, ethics and sensing were not touched upon so they were fine in your eyes I assume.
"ethics and sensing were not touched upon so they were fine in your eyes I assume." don't know what to do with this. Just wrong.
I don't care how super awesome someone sounds in the description. Real people are something totally different and you better come down from your clouds. It's apparent that you idealize LIEs and it blinds you. Like some activist who only sees his perspective and insist it's the right one. There are no "right" perceptions or perspectives. Otherwise interrelationship conflicts would not be thing.
@Chae, thanks, but I can see @Cosmic Teapot's point. I was married to an SLI for many years, my father is SLI, and I have worked with many SLI's, and in no case that I remember, have I ever taught them anything. I've learned a few things from them, but I don't think it has gone the other way. I think SLI's and I can make super-productive teams, and I try to work with them whenever I can, but I don't think they actually learn anything from me.Doesn't sound LIE.
- LIE is extremely good at grasping the factual essence, workings, necessities, and framework of something and hence explaining what it's about and what you need to do.
-
- And Ep person might not keep what they promise - Ej though is very reliable. Optimistic and opportunistic yes, LIE is like that. But
- They might ignore
- Again,
- 4D
- If LIE cannot estimate a progress, nobody can
-
-
The two teachers probably were another type, what you said at least did not seem LIE. Maybe they were SEE or something? You criticized lack of
SEI's are similar, in that they tend to be repelled by me, and are therefore not receptive to learning anything.
Since male SLI's and female SEI's are the two most common types in the Socion, it is not surprising that most people do not consider LIE's to be good teachers.
However, I can teach other LIE's perfectly, and vice-versa, and ESI's seem to drink up facts and processes from me, and I have had some very productive sessions with LII's and ILI's and LSE's and SLE's and LSI's and even ILE's (note they are all logicals), so I think any assessment of how good a teacher a person might be depends heavily on their respective types.
This is based on assuming she's SLI which isn't set in stone.
I don't know their type. :/ probably those people who are willing to teach a student and who are passionate with what they're doing that they make sure that the student learn.
I'd agree with the sentiment that the best/favourite teacher depends on your own sociotype.
Having said that, ENFx teachers seem to be universally appealing to most people.
They are emotionally engaging, passionate about their subject, involve the students, and so forth.
But even ENFx teachers who put their heart into their teaching can have some haters.
I used to have an IEE teacher whom many found entertaining and interesting, but some people would complain about how he'd ramble on too much, went on too many tangents, never got to the point, etc.
So again, mostly depends on your own sociotype, and how much the teacher actually cares and how competent they are.
In short, the best teacher would be an Identical or Dual who cares and is competent.
@Chae, if you meant my ex, I'm pretty sure she is SLI. Both she and my father are SLI. Here are their pics.
Ex-wife: http://i.imgur.com/l4M7Wqr.jpg
Father: http://i.imgur.com/DeTyIkb.jpg
If they look attractive to you, then you might be duals.
I think a vital characteristic of a good teacher is the ability to recognize when you're accidentally assuming knowledge that the student doesn't have. For high school, I guess it's more obvious since the curriculum is standard within a high school, but with college, people take different classes and even one class can be taught differently across years, if the prof changes or even if the prof is the same but he changes the syllabus. So it's important for the prof to be able to go a step back toward the basics if necessary and recognize when it's necessary.
The main characteristic that my favorite teachers shared is that they had high expectations. I learned the most from them/they kind of changed my perspective on life. I was pretty laidback regarding intellectual pursuits until 10th grade, when I had an honors U.S. history teacher who was really intense because he basically thought he was teaching AP U.S. history. Then I actually started trying in school. I used to want to be a graphic novelist (which there's nothing wrong with), but after that class, I realized it's fun to analyze cause and effect in human interactions (so appropriate given EII's Fi and causal-deterministic cognitive style) and read Freakonomics and got into economics.
I had a lot of great teachers, but the other main transformative one was in sophomore year of college, who taught real analysis/proof-based math. That was like the lowest grade I got in my life since elementary school, and I worked my butt off, but now I'm confident I can follow any logical reasoning, given the same starting materials. And now I'm only attracted to men who are good at logic, ha. I used to prefer men who are good with words.
YES to economist! maybe it's our same type to make us think that.. but really, the best professors I had were the ones who challenged me, made me not sleep at night, made my brain work non-stop.. they were even the ones that all the other students used to hate... I never even had a good relationship with most my professors, I can save one in all my history of scholarship. She would ask us to learn pages and pages by heart, and we were all damn afraid of her... we learned so much. I realize now how priceless that was. Discipline.
I think my favorite teacher at highschool was an EII. Then there was also an older lady who taught us philosphy and everyone admired her, because she was a true high class woman (well she behaved like one) with amazing sense of style and everything she's ever said sounded very educated and intellectual. She was smart and open-minded while she's never really been too arrogant to her students, she always appriciated when she saw people trying and paying attention to her subjects. I think she was an EIE-Ni.
My favorite professor at my first uni was an ILI and he taught us psychology. I think an LIE professor that we had was okay too. At my current uni I get along best with an LII/ILE professor, but he has that sort of a vibe that I think everyone likes him.
As this thread shows there are multiple aspects in consideration.
Cognitively heavy side: authority should be the reason not the teacher. Of course there is need for introduction. You need to bring in different ways of understanding with precision or give some sort of direction where to go if questioned.
Practical side: include individual into the process and give tips and tricks. Goals will settle the format.
Airy fairy side: bit more conversational, maybe. Now we are stepping into weird area. Sometimes teachers and thinkers are considered having authority over reason and you are bound to obey it or be rebel. Clarity and objectivity diminishes. You can go towards cognitively heavy side after you have received enough recognition through practice.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I agree, SEEs can be good teachers and can encourage students in the right way, practical but still tactful.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Are you sure about this being objectively true, or not just your personal preference. Many students like to feel the human side of a teacher, it gives them some motivation to dwelwe into the material. That's my experience at least. I agree about your other points. I'm especially bad at automatically explaining small steps - I seem to unconsciously expect that someone else will ask about them.
Anyway, I personally think I can be a great teacher when it comes to relatively simple stuff that can be learned and applied fairly quickly. When it comes to extremely complicated topics, I think Te creatives are better creating a step-by-step learning process. However, they may end up demotivating the students with boredom.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Just my opinion. It worked for me.
What I meant with "personal stuff" is that the two LIEs liked to talk about a)their girlfriend, b)business, c)random rambling about other stuff. Personal warmth is necessary but not when you try to concentrate and the one next to you, who needs to shut up for a minute, won't stop talking about unrelated topics. I prefer a clear segregation between personal conversations and lectures. Unless for motivational purposses.
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