@darya: Have you ever seen "girl interrupted?"Originally Posted by hkkmr
there's a lot of movies, books, songs, about women with qualities that are not "socially acceptable" but "totally hot". Also, those women are usually like that not because they want to, but because they are. Shyness makes you less approachable and thus more attractive, Quietness makes you mysterious, Being unpredictable IS one of the universal signifiers of dominance and self esteem (even if you don't feel that yourself).
ENFjs are victims. ISTjs (LSIs) are their duals.
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
ENFj is still a victim and the dual of ENFj is ISTj. Some boys like bad girls... see Refi.. he's a bad girl addict.@hkkmr you seem to know your shit. Bad boys are imo much more popular. No one wants a bitch and bad girls are looked upon, so I always try to present myself like a better person
I'm offiicially open to being ENFj know. Wait, so who is my dual? And more importantly, can I no longer be a victim (oh, the horror) ?!
How about an exciting, adventurous LSE as opposed to a boring, scumbag-gy SLE?
Seriously, if you present one option as "exciting" and the other one as "boring", very few people are going to find themselves preferring the latter. I'm sure people generally find their own interests as less boring than those of others. (I don't think I've met many SLEs I didn't find boring. And, believe it or not, but it really is possible to find an LSE mind-blowingly exciting. )
Ughh, but I don't want an LSI, I don't think I've ever been attracted to one ->
Recovering Bad Girl Addict, i'm doing the steps and all!
all join the RBGA-group!
awww, so sweet
I think EIE's are wonderful, so if you are then I will automatically find you wonderful. Not a psychotic girl! I like your spirit.
Agarina dear, I was merely making an attempt at joking!
Proof or it never ever happened.
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
I think duality relationships can be surprising to people, especially if there have been no close/intimate relations with one's dual. It's very difficult to imagine someone that is like our dual because the functions which our dual manifests most strongly is in our weak and unconscious area. I think it takes experience and intimacy with these kinds of individuals before these relationships can be understood.Ughh, but I don't want an LSI, I don't think I've ever been attracted to one ->
Wrong,
PICTURES OR IT NEVER HAPPENED!!
if you´re EIE, good luck in trying to persuade LSI you´re not just a superficial status-seeking attention-whore narcissistic bitchUghh, but I don't want an LSI, I don't think I've ever been attracted to one ->who cannot maintain any consistency in beliefs from one day to another without help.
LSIs are still IEIs' activators and you should generally find their company pleasant, were you an IEI.Ughh, but I don't want an LSI, I don't think I've ever been attracted to one ->
Also, what hkkmr said.
I think I only recently had my very first dual-crush... It's easy to overly romanticize duality and dismiss everything else, but in reality it's not like the only people you're attracted to are your duals.
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
I hope the therapists know their shit better than in my RBBA group
But that's exactly what they're looking for....if you´re EIE, good luck in trying to persuade LSI you´re not just a superficial status-seeking attention-whore narcissistic bitch
i love a good challengeif you´re EIE, good luck in trying to persuade LSI you´re not just a superficial status-seeking attention-whore narcissistic bitch
Wow, did you mean this as harsh as i interpreted it??if you´re EIE, good luck in trying to persuade LSI you´re not just a superficial status-seeking attention-whore narcissistic bitch
I hope the therapists know their shit better than in my RBBA group
The best cure for bad girl addiction is castration, I think they know their shit ^^
Define boring. Let´s turn this crazy crappy Beta thread into a defense of Delta system of values. I agree with "dual-seeking" charm ...but lmao, SLE can be fucking unpredictable even for their Mirror. And it´s hard to believe Delta NF would find polr hits boring. Annoying, yeah, painful, probably, but not boring.How about an exciting, adventurous LSE as opposed to a boring, scumbag-gy SLE?
Seriously, if you present one option as "exciting" and the other one as "boring", very few people are going to find themselves preferring the latter. I'm sure people generally find their own interests as less boring than those of others. (I don't think I've met many SLEs I didn't find boring. And, believe it or not, but it really is possible to find an LSE mind-blowingly exciting. )
I actually think that conflictors/super-ego can find each other extremely exciting when they meet, conflict is exciting! But as time proceeds the little subtle pain points of the interaction are exposed and eventually contempt and disgust form in these relations if they are kept at a close distance.
@hkkmr, i have yet another question: why do you think I'm EIE over IEI? Don't they share the same functions just in slightly different order? Is it just about the general feel of my extraversion or something else...I trust your judgment, I would just like to better understand typing methods...What for example rules IEI out?
@darya
I am just sitting back, watching and thinking, git it girl, show em' all whatcha workin' with!
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Are you more inclined to focus on a task sequentially and in one sitting, getting immersed in it OR do things in a random order and multi-task, and stay detached from it?
Are you more inclined to notice what's not there OR what there is? For example, when saving for a certain sum of money, are you more likely to think how much you still need to save OR how much you've already saved?
When someone comes to you with their troubles, are you more inclined to offer them empathy and emotional comfort OR focus on giving them concrete advice? Do you have more trouble distancing yourself from others' emotions and experiences OR their requests for action?
Are you more inclined to change your methods according to your goals OR change your goals in alignment to your methods?
Which would you consider more "sacred" (meaning, you're less likely to share it with others), ideas or resources? If you have an interest for something that's unattainable for you, will you drop it and move onto something else or will you keep on pursuing that interest?
Are you more likely to be spontaneous, using resources/information "at hand", believing that you cannot prepare for everything OR use information you've accumulated over time, and plan ahead?
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
I think EIE or IEI is almost certainly the right typing but there a few things I note in EIE's which you also have.
This part below is my methodology of typing E/I and it's very Jungian, I view extroverts as externalizing their subjectivity and introverts as oriented towards their subjectivity.(probably really bad words here)
You have a extroverted communication style, you tend to externalize internal content and verbalize this in a image constructing fashion. It's still self-conscious and in a way self-absorbed, but you externalize these internal states into a way that others can understand and objectively evaluate. You talk a lot about how other people see you and how other people might see you, as well as describe things that can easily be observed such as (I put a lot of effort in my appearance). I think overall, your initial post is lacking in internal content. You try to express it but it doesn't actually come out that way, everyone has subjective content and it comes out of us whether or not we want it to, however, I find that Extroverts/extratims in socionics tend to objectify, give it the appearance of third party observation or describe it in a way that it appear to be third party observable. This is a trait that I see as the primary difference of E/I in socionics and it's not something we have a lot of control over.
The other part is my experience with EIE's and IEI's. EIE and IEI are two types I have decades of extensive experience with, and I have a good idea how they think and behave, and there's just a lot of things in your first post which leads me to believe you are EIE and not IEI.
A lot of times being self-conscious is just having strong intuition and not related to introversion(oriented towards subjectivity). Intuition is an inactive, contemplative function versus the active action oriented nature of sensing.
Heh, you can diss deltas all you like if that's what you want to do. My point was merely to point out that using highly subjective, loaded terms like "boring" or "exciting" in an attempt to help someone figure out their type isn't necessarily very helpful.
What comes to "boring", some random online dictionary defined it as "so uninteresting as to cause mental weariness". I find that satisfactory enough, and it fits how I perceive (most) SLEs. It's not so much about a person's unpredictableness, people can be unpredictable in uninteresting ways, too. Or predictable in their unpredictableness (choosing surprising activities/topics, but always interacting/going on about them in similar ways, etc).
Do you think thins "impossible to find your conflictor boring"-thing if true for everyone, or unique to Delta NF:s (and maybe some other types)? If the latter, what do you think would make Delta NF:s different? Also, do you think I'm mistyped or lying about being bored by SLEs?
@Aylen
I suddenly feel like twerking
I suspect you're my long lost twin and not Refi's ex-wife
Most online tests seem pretty crappy to me, but this one is quite good. You can leave out the ones you're not sure about.
http://zhilkin.com/socio/en/
The one is not mutually exclusive with the other...
I'll type you...you're my type.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I tried to find this awesome Te heaven thread filled with awesome Te stuff even XEIs admitted was awesome that someone made some years ago, but apparently it's been buried too deep so bleh. I could send you the results of my newest science experiment on changes in panties wetness levels around LSEs in purple pants, tho.
Hmmm, this test was complicated but very interesting. I had difficulties with some of these dichotomies. First of all, It's clear from the test that I'm either IEI or EIE. I left out intovert/extravert and rational/irrational. I'm 100% sure I'm ethical, intuitive, dynamic, asking, subjective and aristocratic. I stil believe IEI is more plausible, as I'm prety sure I'm also emotive, decisive, yielding and result-oriented, also probably positive. I have no idea about tactical/strategic.
But don't take my word on all of them. All in all, I think IEI pwns EIE (at least in this test). But I don't know how accurate these dichotomies are? And is it possible to be some kind of IEI/EIE hybrid, special snowflake(TM)
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Hkkmr, that's very insightful and you explained it perfectly. I've never thought about I/E from this pov. Yeah, I definitely think a lot and am concerned how other people perceive me. But I think I have trouble seeing the difference between 4w3 and 3w4 in this aspect.
I also definitely verbalize internal content in an image constructing way. I sometimes even say some of my thoughts and observation out loud, as I would be explaining them to an audience (i try to make them understandable, for example logically summarizing them, deducting information, putting conclusions into paragraphs and trying to remember them at the same time) . It's like I'm preparing material for some speech that never actually happens - thank god) I ALWAYS have others in my mind, when I'm thinking in my head, sometimes even specific people. Funny though how I hate public speeches.
God that was difficult to put into words in english. I swear I will never talk about myself after this thread dies down
One more question: do you find dichotomies accurate for typing?. Cause I think I'm more on the IEI side if going by them.
I got Yesenin too
Typing is something that should be considered holistically. Some dichotomies are difficult to use because there will generally be some that are harder to identify and be certain of, the dichotomies are also quite nuanced and a lot of self-perception and self-reporting can end in a mistyping.
My methodology with E/I is something I only adopted recently(within last year) and it is something I have used to good effect. It also happens to be supported by Jung. E/I dichotomy as described in MBTI and other studies like Big 5 is not the same as Socionics E/I or Jungian E/I. Most of the reinin dichotomies are poorly described and I only use them as a error checking method. IMO Jung gave the best descriptions of IE's and I have not found better, however Socionics gives these descriptions the ability to be analyzed via it's model, dichotomy characteristics(static/dynamic, internal/external, object field), new hypothetical dichotomies(Reinin), and function dichotomies based on Model A and many other features of the theory and model. Because function descriptions better than Jungian descriptions has yet to be produced, I heavily rely on these for typing. In this sense I use Jungian dichotomies(I/E, T/F, N/S, J/P) for the analysis of type but the goal is always to identify the exact information element(Jung function) within the ego of the individual.
@Vois
Hehe, yeah kinda hypocritical.I'll try to explain:
In general I don't wantt to affect others in an negative emotional way (because I know how negatively it affects me if others are in bad mood ) and I'm trying not to hurt other people's feelings (saying what I really feel about them or being unfriendly might hurt them -> I would feel bad for them and have guilty conscience): So that means I'm usually trying to be as polite as possible. In my eyes, in these circumstances it's more important to be polite than genuine, so not to hurt others.
When I said that I value genuineness, I meant more in the "not putting a fake persona on". I can see through people if they're poseurs or faking emotions. If someone is nice to me and I feel like they have pure intentions and are being themselves, I will instantly like them. I can tell fake sweetnes from real sweetnes in a sec and no, the above is not an example of fake sweetnes, as I stillI have people's best intentions at heart when I'm faking I like them) never wish bad things to happen to people that never hurted me.
It's different if you just don't like someone in general and you gossip a little behind their back or if you laugh at their misfurtune, try to humiliate them or actively try to sabotage them. Not saying either will score you any points with Jesus
When I give people compliments to make them feel good about themselves, I do my best to not give fake compliments, but try to find something that I really admire about them. If I can't stand someone and he's being bitchy to me, then I will resort to manipulation, fake compliments and backhanded compliments, trying to fuck them up
http://www.socionics.com/prof/enfj.htmI got Yesenin too
http://www.socionics.com/prof/infp.htm
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
That's not so good of a site. Try Wikisocion.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
1. In a random order, multi-tasking.
2. What there is.
3. Feel empathy and offer emotional support - definitely.
Hmm, I have troubles distancing from both the same I think?
4. Change my methods according to my goals.
5, Resources (I think).
I will drop it.
6. Use information I've accumulated over time.
IEI
so you're not a carefree type.
I would say you're farsighted dichotomy based on what you say in the above...let's see which types those are...
SEE is still a farsighted type.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Just so you don't get confused in your attempts to type yourself, Darya. I am not IEI. So don't compare yourself to me.
"[Scapegrace,] I don't know how anyone can stand such a sinister and mean individual as you." - Maritsa Darmandzhyan
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