Yup, just like there must be LIIs that aren't completely emotionally retarded. Probably not you, but ah well, life ain't fair.Originally Posted by ouronis
Yup, just like there must be LIIs that aren't completely emotionally retarded. Probably not you, but ah well, life ain't fair.
Even if LII's get expressive the next step for them is not to completely overrule atmosphere [ILI's would be more in spoil category rather than overrule]. It can seem very ouchy kind of thing.Yup, just like there must be LIIs that aren't completely emotionally retarded. Probably not you, but ah well, life ain't fair.
Yikes. Well, those sort extreme LII's can be found at math departments across the universe [although not all math department habitants are like that].
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
same as Fi/Ni : ) If you compare Jung and the different takes of socionics, Ni, Fi, Ti, Si.. they're all mashed up. perhaps, perhaps, there are no types at all.. or perhaps they're 8 core types, but maybe even less... and it's about just very slightly preferences from those little cores on.. I think this forum is illuminating to show how mashed up types are.Makes me think of someone who told me Ni is basicaly understood as "intuition Ti" lol. I found it fitting.
I remember warching a video about how people who truly have Ni as a function simply can't put it in words, it's more about a very abstract experience of life. The best description I found was "Ni is what is left when you take away all other functions" though I guess that's a negativist way of seeing things. I wrote this else where, and I know it can be said of all functions, but the others are better described by what they are. I could use all the words in the world to describe it and it wouldn't be succesful, a silence would be more meaningful, but people who desire a worded explaination wouldn't appreciate, so eh.
I don't believe an INTx would put decent words on Ni, INTj because they do not value it and INTp because they value it...
I think Ni is too personal to be properly put down on paper. Also, I read that Ni egos tend to think others who self-type as Ni ego are just plain wrong because the experiences of Ni don't match, and I can see it, beside Adam Strange who types everyone IEI.
To explain Ni tonight I'll use one word: tree.
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Got me. In moments of having increased self-confidence I'm prone to do this.
Magnifique.I think Ni is too personal to be properly put down on paper. Also, I read that Ni egos tend to think others who self-type as Ni ego are just plain wrong because the experiences of Ni don't match, and I can see it, beside Adam Strange who types everyone IEI.
To explain Ni tonight I'll use one word: tree.
I have noticed that about Ni egos as well. It's also the only IE that I was never capable getting a good grip of, and I shamefully admit it. It's also what led me to doubt and shove every typing of myself as IEI out the window; How could an IEI even fail so miserably at outlining Ni as a whole? Isn't it the equivalent of a SLE doubting their crazy, bulldozer magic?
Moreso, I don't think any description or term associated with Ni is of any help. At least it never was, to me. Hearing about P A T T E R N S, and S Y M B O L S and I M A G E R Y... I couldn't say it made the job of cutting to the bone of this IE any easier.
“I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
― Clarice Lispector
lol, what made me laugh the most about Ni was "perception of time", what does that even mean?!
My take on Ni is, it's perceiving changes in the environment as patterns and knowing when the time is right to start different type of actions (in combination with an extroverted judgement function).
In Te it means a dime per time.
If an object at time a is at place b and the object is at time c at place d then seeing this change using your mind's eye is simple Ni.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I see... I don't know how one could perceive the changes in an environment without considering the chain of events that brought to that.. pattern? what pattern is one supposed to see..?
2 or 3 months ago I was introduced to this guy at work, I already knew him and knew what he does, he was supposed to help us for some time... our boss hired him. I was preoccupied by the decision, I liked him as a person, but didn't like his lifestyle, the things he does.. was afraid he would have tainted our work with those vices.. I told about it to my SLI collegue, because we talk a lot together, at work he's my confidant. he told me," yes you're right.. I don't like "him" either".
well, what happened is that my prediction turned to be right. the guy in the end disappeared without finishing his job, leaving behind a lot of even shittier situations that he was hired to solve.. all of this because of his lifestyle, which of course, my boss had no idea about, he didn't know him as well as I do.
so, I'm wondering, is this Ni? to me it's simple action-reaction, if you know someone well, you can predict his next moves to a good extent. I don't see a pattern in this. I didn't know how to behave infront of this in the right time, I was hoping things could have gone differently... but I sensed deep down, that was not gonna be the case.
Ni is the only function I "get" somehow, but I don't think I have a good grip of it, at best, I feel romantic toward it as a concept... but what do I truly mean with this? Either one gets it or not.Magnifique.
I have noticed that about Ni egos as well
Moreso, I don't think any description or term associated with Ni is of any help. At least it never was, to me. Hearing about P A T T E R N S, and S Y M B O L S and I M A G E R Y... I couldn't say it made the job of cutting to the bone of this IE any easier.
The descriptions are about what Ni may seem from the outside I think, I said tree because I was thinking about the life cycle of a tree when I wrote it, it's an image, the cycle is related to time, it's symbolic, but those words aren't what I had in mind at the time, I didn't think symbolicaly about an image and it's pattern through time, I thought of a tree growing, but if I spell out my thoughts it can be analyzed this way.
Random rememberance: one day I was sitting on the balcony and I started "seeing" the place where I live being built/torn down, it was a little strange to be hung in the "past", present, and "future" at once. Didn't think of time at the time, just experienced it.
Everyone can have such experiences, but they are stronger in certain individual, take more importance... are valued and conscious. @ooo when I read type descriptions, I get shocked about how mental people are, but I have never met such a person, because people aren't types, they view the world through not only the concept of functions (if one accepts it) but also many other lenses. Socionics is interesting to understand a small part of a psych imo, but all of the small parts that were described don't equal to the whole, at best, it can give an incomplete portrait of how one (the describer) views others and a deeper insight in one's psych, what we like/dislike can tell us loads about ourselves.
There is a reason Jung said the following about introverted intuition. Bolded for emphasis. I am not a gatekeeper to any type. I think Babs and others can vouch for that. I just believe that some people want to find their type their own way. When I have violated their method by telling them I think they may be an Ni ego (or any type really.) it doesn't always turn out well. It can creep some people out. People can type themselves whatever they want. It's their game after all.I camouflage things as guesses so it is not rejected outright. I also don't care too much about how people type themselves. I can only be sure of my own lead function. Every other function is a tool for me.
"One of the most difficult types is the intuitive introvert"
"The intuitive extravert, you find them [all over]..renters, bankers, gamblers,... That is quite understandable. But the introvert...introverted variety...is more difficulty (sic) because he has intuitions as to the subjective factor, namely the Inner world. And of course that is very difficult to understand. Because what he sees are most uncommon things..and he doesn't like to talk of them..if he's not a fool...because he would spoil his own game, by telling people what he sees because people won't understand it."
"so you see, if...when the intuitive...the introverted intuitive would speak what he really perceives...then practically no one would understand it. He would be misunderstood. And so they learn to keep things to themselves. And you hardly ever hear them talking of these things..that is a great disadvantage...but it is an enormous advantage in another way not to speak of the experience in that way but also in human relations. For instance, they come into the presence of somebody they don't know and suddenly they have inner images. And those inner images give them more or less complete information about the psychology of the partner..."
"So the introverted intuitive has, in a way, a very difficult life. Although one of the most interesting lives."
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
That means if you don’t do something and keep not doing it they can see how that something is going to be a disaster later
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
This reminds of the conversation about avoiding certain words due to other people's rigid ideas of what it all means. There is a battle inside every time I have to use any word associated with Ni. Get the thesaurus to find another word for "time" "pattern" "symbolism" "meaning" etc... Censoring oneself can be exhausting so I end up setting the thesaurus aside most of the time (see I said "time").Magnifique.
I have noticed that about Ni egos as well
Moreso, I don't think any description or term associated with Ni is of any help. At least it never was, to me. Hearing about P A T T E R N S, and S Y M B O L S and I M A G E R Y... I couldn't say it made the job of cutting to the bone of this IE any easier.
It's the sentence by sentence nitpicking that leads to retypings that makes me want to light bonfires like Varg. I don't get chased much anymore since I understood the real battle was with myself. I see it happening to others. I can't help feeling for them. Does feeling for others make you Fe or or Fi? I forget? Holy hell I have feelings, cue #9's entrance, "EII 4w5", cue k4m, "EII 9w1", cue sol, "evil speaking, cute girl, IEI". I do so appreciate how they feel so strongly about my type. Heartwarming they all want me as a conflictor. I am happy to oblige when it suits me.
If I am everyone's confictor I can retype myself ESTx.
p.s. The Punisher is my hot imaginary crush @ooo.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Why u hev 2 b mad lmaoThis reminds of the conversation about avoiding certain words due to other people's rigid ideas of what it all means. There is a battle inside every time I have to use any word associated with Ni. Get the thesaurus to find another word for "time" "pattern" "symbolism" "meaning" etc... Censoring oneself can be exhausting so I end up setting the thesaurus aside most of the time (see I said "time").
It's the sentence by sentence nitpicking that leads to retypings that makes me want to light bonfires like Varg. I don't get chased much anymore since I understood the real battle was with myself. I see it happening to others. I can't help feeling for them. Does feeling for others make you Fe or or Fi? I forget? Holy hell I have feelings, cue #9's entrance, "EII 4w5", cue k4m, "EII 9w1", cue sol, "evil speaking, cute girl, IEI". I do so appreciate how they feel so strongly about my type. Heartwarming they all want me as a conflictor. I am happy to oblige when it suits me.
If I am everyone's confictor I can retype myself ESTx.
to be everyone's "confictor" is possibly having any type
That sounds more SeIn Te it means a dime per time.
If an object at time a is at place b and the object is at time c at place d then seeing this change using your mind's eye is simple Ni.
How I used Ni within the past half hour>
- Thought that I wanted a dog and then imagined my life with the dog, at 3-4 year intervals of rolling footage, over the next 15 years until he was breaking his teeth on hard food and going blind in his left eye and I eventually had him euthanized and felt devastated pouring out his ashes, knowing that a pure souled, innocent creature I enjoyed/trusted/confided in more than actual humans up and abandoned me...and then decided that I don't want a dog due to not wanting to risk what would probably be an inevitable attachment and eventual disappointment. (perception of time) DONE.
- When I'm listening to a younger, reckless SEE cousin recount one of his many garbage pail kid (random, obscure 80s visual pop culture reference that came from "nowhere") nights out on the town where he woke up on some random person's doorstep with a massive hangover and empty pockets in one of the most dangerous cities in the world and the first thing that comes to mind for me to say is some cheesy shit like "live fast, die young" as I instantaneously visualized some random aviator shades wearing, redneck hellion with a Budweiser hanging out the window of a dingy ass pickup truck doing donuts in the middle of broad, quasi busy Oklahoma highway. (instantly abstracting a reality based phenomena I didn't have the immediate words to fully articulate into a distilled, visual, "universal" axiom in order to communicate an insight) DONE.
It really isn't that hard, folks. Geez.
You see you made my point for me. I am not mad. I am contemplative. You just FEEL like I am mad.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Did u know ESTx has only one conflictorThis reminds of the conversation about avoiding certain words due to other people's rigid ideas of what it all means. There is a battle inside every time I have to use any word associated with Ni. Get the thesaurus to find another word for "time" "pattern" "symbolism" "meaning" etc... Censoring oneself can be exhausting so I end up setting the thesaurus aside most of the time (see I said "time").
It's the sentence by sentence nitpicking that leads to retypings that makes me want to light bonfires like Varg. I don't get chased much anymore since I understood the real battle was with myself. I see it happening to others. I can't help feeling for them. Does feeling for others make you Fe or or Fi? I forget? Holy hell I have feelings, cue #9's entrance, "EII 4w5", cue k4m, "EII 9w1", cue sol, "evil speaking, cute girl, IEI". I do so appreciate how they feel so strongly about my type. Heartwarming they all want me as a conflictor. I am happy to oblige when it suits me.
If I am everyone's confictor I can retype myself ESTx.
p.s. The Punisher is my hot imaginary crush @ooo.
Such a 9 denying shes madYou see you made my point for me. I am not mad. I am contemplative. You just FEEL like I am mad.
@Aylen I think the punisher is alive, you have hope <3
Does that make me SxI in your mind now. Please share your simplistic idea of how enneagram and socionics works together. It is too late for me but maybe you will save other people years of self reflection.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
lol genius ^
What?! How come you have so many then? Thanks for enlightening me though. You're a peach.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Se is about experiencing things via mind's eye? So I said simple Ni. Something that every type does.
Now put on fast forward add unforeseen junctions based on patterns you know put more stuff into mix and blend it off the present and you'll get whole slew of mess which I think is high functioning Ni.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
The very first bullet point contains morethan I would ever be able to distill from the dry sponge of my unconscious mind. The details and everything you wrote make it seem so vivid; it's never like that for me. And the same thing can be said about the second bullet, too. I play the association game a lot
"It really isn't that hard, folks. Geez"
Flexing those white triangles and black squares, I see.
“I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
― Clarice Lispector
For me it usually flashes generalized stuff [about the specifics] gives short show down and Ti says it is the rule and makes my Fe want to express agony reminding my Si not to go yolo.
The very first bullet point contains more
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Hi Reyne,
Yes I absolutely think its possible a person could/would repres their lead function in the formative years. The reasons why this is could be numerous reasons, including: out of quadra family, traumas, difficult majority culture.
I think its possible for a person to chronically be Te, as Te is a dominating all pervasive IE in humanity right now. Most of the modern lifestyle requires a significant focus on Te in order to just function at the bare minimum. I'm sure this focus can be chronically, and subconsciously challenging for the individuals whose minds just don't really want to work that way, for whatever reasons as well.
As far as Ne goes, I find that it too is probably in vogue right now in humanity. The entire possibility movement that has its roots and really started taking off in the Industrial revolution coupled with the complete inundation of information all over the place in the cities and through news and media makes Ne a front and center IE for people.
Need a job? Need repairs? Need to get? Where can you go? Imagine what this product can do for you? Have you explored your options? Have you tried this? Have you tried that? Did you go online and search? Have you read this fun fact? Have you seen this oddity? What is around the corner? There is no stopping possibility....Did you know? Now you know...
On and on.
Its funny when I first saw your video what was it a couple of years ago? I sensed something fragmented and I think I told you that. Don't worry man, you've got year ahead of you, enternity of time to integrate yourself. I know the problem isn't depression for you, its something more chronic and I can't be sure what. I've seen it in myself as well.
Coming into your own does help, also what helped me was a few key friendships that were life altering.
The thing with conflictors is that they are uncomfortable right away, within minutes. Each tries to bridge the gap, but all efforts just make things worse and worse. Not only do they think the other is stupid, they also start to doubt themselves internally. Its like extinguishment, but also with a cruel twist.
Just a fun tid bit of observation: IEI and SLI get along like dynamite, even though they are in opposing quadras. Each gets the need to rest (languish) in tidal pools until the active water sweeps in again. There is respect for each other's inner world that on or the other might start wondering if they belong in each other's quadras.
That's SEI and IEI (look a like), not SLI-IEI (super-ego).
Super-ego
"Partners normally think more about expressing their own point of view than listening to their partner. This expression comes from the confident side of one of the partners reaching the unconfident side of the other partner. The latter tries to defend themselves by projecting their confident points in return. Partners normally show interest and respect to each other if they do not know each other well enough. When partners start more close interaction, they start experiencing many problems.
Super-Ego partners may think that they understand each other well. However, when it comes to day to day matters or co-operative activity, partners start thinking that their partner is deliberately trying to do everything wrong. Super-Ego partners are not interested and do not make each other aware of their intentions. Therefore their actions may look exactly opposite to what was expected. Although the hope and the feeling between partners may remain as before, it does not prevent the conflicts penetrating their relationship."
Look-a-like
"These are relations between equal partners which can be called acquaintances rather than friends. There are no visual obstacles in the development of these relations, partners can talk easily almost about anything. Look-a-like partners do not feel any danger from the other partner. The strong sides of the partners are different in the such a way that almost any conversations between them always fall into the area of the confidence of only one of the partners. Look-a-like partners also have similar problems which makes them feel rather sympathetic towards each other instead of being critical of each other's vulnerabilities.
Understanding between partners is usually good. Collaboration between them may be very fruitful especially if partners feel a mutual attraction. When partners lose their feeling of sympathy for each other through anger or any other reason, they can apply pressure to their partner's vulnerabilities. This can sometimes be really unexpected and unpleasant for both partners.
Arguments in Look-a-like relations are not common practice. The partners usually try to help each other, or at least feel when their partner requires some form of assistance. However, in many cases the help is not effective enough because partners have similar problems. Look-a-like relations have an average degree of comfort. Partners do not have anything against each other but also nothing for which to struggle. These relations can normally bring a feeling of satisfaction from interaction with an equal and not boring partner. "
why so mad
you need to take a chillpill woman
its not cruel its just a clash of personalities
1.) I think part of this can be explained by how the base and creative function operate > what's funny/interesting/frustrating to me is that Ni leads sometimes "live" their intuition so thoroughly that they don't see it; it's like white noise even though it "breathes" and "speaks" through much of what they say and do. First off, you went all meta "Ni" in your discussion of Ni by pulling back a veil of reality on the surface level, "face value" "words" that (to your point, often do) lack the nuance/depth/substance/wholeness/fullness/completeness to adequately verbalize what Ni actually is, which effectively then leads to confusing misconceptions that further alienate one from accessing Ni's fundamental "truths."
The very first bullet point contains more
a.] It's interesting that you describe your usage of Ni as an "incomplete process" because I feel very much the same about about my Te (both of which are dynamic, ever evolving processes, btw), which is why I marvel at how an ILI can imaginatively yet skillfully wield it like a sorcerer when bludgeoning some peon over the head with the scientific method, for example. Much of what I do in my career is sell elaborate visions of how I think something will work/develop/unfold overtime; Ni creative is very well suited for this vocation. Why? Because the creative function gives us "artistic licence" by which to accomplish the base's "desires." I think of ESI ballet dancers and chefs that use Se with more inventive, artful finesse and refinement than base Se users; Or IEI writers who use Fe so fucking masterfully that their readers don't realize the extent to which their emotions are being shaped and manipulated as a story unfolds.
Like you, I have access to ample amounts of vague, abstract impressions but it's more like a river I step into/go fishing in/take a boat ride on, directing the current in a way that works with my intentions, as opposed to being passively flooded/drowned with these impressions (read: sensory data gathered from the immediate environment combined with information from one's psyche) like an Ni lead might be, therefore making their Ni abstractions much harder to parse and distill.
lol Apologies, there was too much Te-PoLR and its homies (Te suggestive and ignoring) up in this thread and it temporarily freaked me out."It really isn't that hard, folks. Geez"
Flexing those white triangles and black squares, I see.
P.S. Your comment is a fine example of creative Fe > you essentially (enacted on behalf of Ni) told me that I'm being an asshole in a (creative) way that made me chuckle and prompted me to self-reflect and then apologize seeing as how that wasn't my primary aim (it was a secondary one, though lol). Well done.
From an evolutionary/natural selection point of view (which is how I see the development of personality type), I often wonder what cruel plot twist prompted LIEs to be so heavily outnumbered by our SEI conflictors. It's funny you say that we tend to think the other is stupid because I never feel outmatched/intimidated by them--if anything, the opposite and would dare them to contest that. lol Perhaps because it takes about 10 of their "egos" to combat a single (arguably, hyper inflated) one of ours? lol
You could save yourself from ever having to self-reflect again. Just post a nice picture of yourself and receive a complete typology report of everything you were, are, and ever will be. It will also include a list of potential mates. It just takes a moment. A look in the eye, a slight smile, a wrinkle, a unibrow; it bypasses years of self-knowledge. If you receive numerous reports with conflicting conclusions, do not fret. The loudest shouter is the correct one.Does that make me SxI in your mind now. Please share your simplistic idea of how enneagram and socionics works together. It is too late for me but maybe you will save other people years of self reflection.
Personally, I believe the difference is due to the fact that a stable society needs more mothers than mother f**ckers.
LIE’s are not the most stabilizing influences in society.
I feel like puking anytime I read of IR relationships and the takes people have on it.
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