View Poll Results: Sigmund Freud's type?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    3 30.00%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    1 10.00%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • IEI (INFp)

    0 0%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    0 0%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    0 0%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    0 0%
  • ILI (INTp)

    1 10.00%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    1 10.00%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    0 0%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    1 10.00%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    1 10.00%
  • EII (INFj)

    2 20.00%
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Thread: Sigmund Freud

  1. #121
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    from an interview with Victor Gulenko on drug abuse:

    "With over 30 years of experience of observing different types from different angles, it has become clear that the central quadras that are Beta and Gamma have more tendency to substance abuse. This is because these quadras value extroverted sensing, which produces an inclination towards tough competition. These types sometimes need some sort of stimulant or substance to tolerate those raised loads on their psyche of competition survival."

    this has become very clear for me too. Si is not an inclination towards drug abuse, but valuing Se is. this is another point that makes me heavily lean towards Freud being a Se valuing intuitive.

  2. #122
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    yeah but not all drugs produce competition drives and Se-like effects. marijuana and opiates seem to me more Si

  3. #123
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    One does not apply simply apply low correlation to individuals just like that. I think Freud was dominant subtype (which probably overrules quadras by long shot) and this the subtype with highest amount of drug abuse and personal problems [according to Gulenko] as there is a very little room for compensation.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    We have very little material of him... He managed things by making it formal.
    Lol, what? There's plenty by him.

  5. #125
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    Last edited by khcs; 06-16-2019 at 09:10 AM.

  6. #126
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    Sometimes an angry intuitive is just an angry intuitive.


  7. #127
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    SLI-Te > ILI-Te
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    Sometimes an angry intuitive is just an angry intuitive.

    Sometimes.
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Lol, what? There's plenty by him.
    Not very personal, younger and high quality ones (framerate and so on).

    Expressions of non verbal by an actual observer indicates ILE
    https://youtu.be/3ySsLRwE3Lk?t=252
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  10. #130
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    According to Jung, he had originally written ‘Psychological Types‘ as a way for him to make sense of his dramatic break with Freud, which had had a severe effect on his mood as well as his social situation (as other Freudians would no longer talk to Jung or refer patients to him).

    Throughout the course of his life, Jung held several different perspectives on Freud’s type (just like how he identified himself as both ISTP and INTP). In his earliest studies, he appears to have identified Freud as an ESP type. Yet later in his life he would come to believe that Freud was an INFP.

    Jung’s Early Statements on Freud’s Type

    Originally Jung had thought that the difference between Freud, Adler, and himself was that Freud was an extrovert, while he and Adler were introverts. Here are some earlier statements by Jung on Freud’s type:

    Jung: “[Freud’s theory] is strictly limited to empirical facts [and] accords the greatest role to sensation.”

    Jung: “When Freud says that the unconscious is ‘only able to wish’, this observation contains a large measure of truth for the unconscious of the extraverted type.”

    Jung: “Freud’s view is essentially extraverted, Adler’s introverted. … Freud and Adler are equally one-sided as representatives of one type.”

    Jung: “Freud’s neurotic disposition makes him an extravert.”

    Another thing that should be noted is that Jung says both that Freud “accords the greatest role to sensation” and says that Freud is “concretistic,” that is, a person in whom there “is a predominance of the sensation factor in psychological orientation.”

    So early in life, Jung appears to say that Freud is an Extroverted, S-dominant type, and thus an ES-P.

    Jung’s Later Statements on Freud’s Type

    But later in life, Jung would come to believe that Freud had been a Feeling dominant, and more specifically, an INFP. First he said (in a conversation with Kurt Eissler):

    Jung: “When [Freud] had thought something, then he was himself surprised by it and it had to be right! … That later made me think that his emotional life … was once disturbed somehow, severely disturbed. And that originally he wasn’t a thinker at all, but that he began to think secondarily and with great difficulty. … When feeling has been scared off, one escapes into thinking!”

    And, furthermore, in a letter to Ernst Hanhart, Jung writes:

    Jung: “[Freud was] an introverted feeling type with inferior thinking. … Freud, then as later, presented the picture of extraverted thinker and empiricist.” [February 18, 1957]

    Jung even gives us his view of Freud’s auxiliary function, which, according to Jung, was intuition, which Freud would then try to hide in favor of his “somewhat deficient” sensing function.

    Conclusion

    One can hardly blame Jung for revising his views. Jung once said that “it is hard to determine his [i.e. Freud’s] type” and with this statement we agree. In fact, we suspect that amongst people who take an interest in determining the types of philosophers, Freud occupies a special place along with Plato as psychological sphinxes.

    By this expression we refer to a remark that Nietzsche once made of Plato: He said that Plato had a “sphinx-like character,” that is; that he purposefully hid his true self in his writings. Of all the people on our site, the only two true “psychological sphinxes” are Plato and Freud. That is not to say that others do not try to hide or distort themselves in writing, or when giving interviews (Obama comes to mind here). But the will to distort or hide oneself is not enough to be successful in this regard: One also needs to have good knowledge of psychology as, evidently, both Freud and Plato had.
    https://www.idrlabs.com/articles/201...estj-and-infp/


  11. #131
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    Jung even gives us his view of Freud’s auxiliary function, which, according to Jung, was intuition, which Freud would then try to hide in favor of his “somewhat deficient” sensing function.
    Could this strong sensing be description of role function? and dominant subtype...

    Extraverted intuitive type according to Jung was description of IEE and LIE (according to professions and so on).[I suppose LSE and ILE can be found in more likely in extraverted thinking type]
    Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 05-28-2019 at 08:39 PM.
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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    Cigarette is not a cigarette.
    I guess it's more like a replacement for mom's nipple to suck on for people got stuck in the oral phase. That's probably what he wanted to express.

    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
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    Yeah, especially for MacGyver. For him a cigar could be anything useful... part of a weapon maybe.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    I guess it's more like a replacement for mom's nipple to suck on for people got stuck in the oral phase. That's probably what he wanted to express.


    Yeah, especially for MacGyver. For him a cigar could be anything useful... part of a weapon maybe.
    I kind of fail to see strong grip of facts by seeing objects of something else than those are and generating pseudo scientific structures from thin air.
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  14. #134
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    thanks for your post! I'm very sceptical of Jung's typings and I think it's strange to change your judgement from extroverted logic to introverted ethics. in his book "psychological types", he also made questionable typings, presenting Goethe as an example of an extroverted feeling type and Schiller as an example of an introverted logical type. I think both had the same type: EIE.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    hmm, I would argue that you see Ne aspects in him because it is a 4 dimensional function for EIE and LIE. looking at his life, I do not see him as Si valuing type at all. much of his work focused on unconcious Ni aspects, which is the undervalued 7th function for ILE.
    Even when Austria was occupied in 1838, he still thought that there were possibilities for his family (Jewish) to keep alive. Until 1939 he finally escaped Vienna but 4 of his sisters were killed. Although I am not very familiar with his theory, this is could be explained by Ni ignoring and Fi PoLR.

  16. #136
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    Some rare footage of Freud in his everyday life.





    Seems clearly ILE to me. Dominant subtype, to be specific.

  17. #137
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    I worked a bit on this topic. I don't really know Freud's theories so I don't know his type. But Jung actually claimed that Frued's type is an open problem.

    Both the IDRlabs and Beebe claim that Jung typed Freud as Fi-leading. But Jung also suggested that Freud is an extraverted type in Psychological Types. It turns out that they are just quoting fragments of Jung's letters.

    It's true that Jung wrote to Ernst Hanhart claiming that Frued is possibly a Fi-leading type. However, in the collections of Jung's letters I found a second letter to Ernest Hanhart. In this letter, Jung wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jung to Hanhart, 2 March 1957
    It should also be noted that my characterization of Adler and Freud as, respectively, introverted and extraverted does not refer to them personally but only to their outward demeanour. The question of the real personal type still remains open. I had little personal knowledge of Adler and so can say little about his real personality. Freud, on the other hand, I knew very well. He was unquestionably a neurotic. As I said before, I know from experience that in neurotic cases it is often extraordinarily difficult to make out the real type, because at first and for a long time afterwards you don't know what you are observing, the conscious or the unconscious behaviour.
    So essentially, Jung said that Freud is a neurotic person. As a result, it's extraordinarily hard to type Freud. Jung typed Freud as extraverted according to his texts and then typed Freud as Fi-leading type. But actually Jung didn't make any conclusion, he said that Frued is neurotic and it's very hard to type.

    This second letter appears at page 349 of the collection while the first one appears at page 346. Actually Jung also claimed that Freud was neurotic in the first letter:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jung to Hanhart, 18 February 1957
    Somatic characteristics are permanent and virtually unalterable facts, whereas psychological ones are subject to various alterations in the course of personality development and also to neurotic disturbances. Even though assignment to a particular type may in certain cases have lifelong validity, in other very frequent cases it is so dependent on so many external and internal factors that the diagnosis is valid only for certain periods of time. Freud was just such a case. On the basis of an accurate knowledge of his character, I consider him to have been originally an introverted feeling type with inferior thinking.
    This sentence appears before the sentences claiming Freud to be Fi-leading. Actually Jung said that developemnt and neurotic disturbances will affect type diagnosis. And Freud was used as such an example.

    So combining the two letters, Jung thinks that Freud suffered from neurotic disturbances and hence it's very hard to type Freud. Then Jung offered an explanation that Frued might be originally a Fi-leading person but due to suffering from neurotic, he appears to be extraverted. Finally, Jung said that the type of Adler and Freud remains open in the second letter. Of course Jung suggested that Frued was Fi-leading originally but I think he was not making the final conclusion.

    also, it's very hard to type neurotic people according to my experience.

  18. #138
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    Marie-Louise von Franz said this:

    Jung never said anything about Freud's type as a human being; he only pointed out in his books that Freud's system represents extroverted thinking. What I add now is my own personal conviction, namely, that Freud himself was an introverted feeling type, and therefore his writings bear the characteristics of his inferior extroverted thinking. In all his works the basic ideas are few. With them he has raced through an enormous amount of material, and the whole system is completely oriented towards the outer object. If one reads biographical notes about Freud, one sees that as a person he had a most differentiated way of treating other people. He was an excellent analyst. He had also a kind of hidden "gentlemanliness,"ƒ€š‚ which had a positive influence upon his patients and upon his surroundings. One must really in his case make a distinction between his theory and his personality as a human being. I think, from what one hears about him, that he belonged to the introverted feeling type.

    The advantage of inferior extroverted thinking is what I just now characterized negatively as "racing with a few ideas through a tremendous amount of material." (Freud himself complained that his dream interpretations felt awfully monotonous; the same interpretation of every dream was boring even to him.) If this tendency is not overdone, and if the introverted feeling type is aware of the danger of his inferior function and keeps a check on it, it has the great advantage of being simple, clear and intelligible. But this is not enough, and the introverted feeling type is obliged to drill a bit deeper and try to specify and differentiate his extroverted thinking. Otherwise he will fall into the trap of intellectual monomania. Therefore, he has to specify his thinking; that is, he should make the hypothesis that each fact he quotes in proof of his ideas illustrates them in a slightly different way, and with this point in view, his ideas should be reformulated each time. In that way he maintains the living process of contact between thought and fact, instead of simply imposing his thought upon facts. Inferior extroverted thinking has just the same negative tendencies of becoming tyrannical, stiff and unyielding, and in that way not quite adapted to its object, that all other inferior functions have.

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