That's fine. Te lead plus good Se sounds fairly all right, I guess.Originally Posted by Bertrand
It's interesting how in Jung and every other typing system, I tend to test as an intuitive type who is high in Openness yet in socionics lol, I am not. I've always found the discrepancy between the systems interesting...
So it's LSE, SLI and maybe LSI...
I find a lot of ILE descriptors to be fairly accurate, even down to appearance however. Si egos esp. leads, are said to be fat usually. I am anything but. LIIs and EIIs are said to be the opposite - the slimmest of all sociotypes. So perhaps we'd best not rule those out either.
One point against LSE is the point that I do not see to value, nor seek Fi in any context. Hell, I don't even care about other people's personal feelings or values, generally speaking.
probably because a Nx HA tends to promote intuitive results on tests, since positive feedback on intuition is crucial to self esteem, thus you're like to subconsciously pick answers that return said feedback in the form of an intuitive result
the same thing happens in reverse and you get a lot of intuitives typing as xSI or whatever, once they realize how badass sensing is and its actually describing something theyre actually kind of insecure about. one of the main weaknesses of MBTI is it doesn't describe sensing in a way that is meaningful, hence intuitive bias is mainly a product of both intuitives and sensors wanting to be intuitive. if MBTI framed sensing types in more "strong willed good looking gets-shit-done" terms, you'd have more intuitives with Sx HA typing into them. which is why MBTI is like 80% intuitives or whatever, because it appeals to the HA of sensors but not intuitives
basically everyone gets blinded by their HA, myself included
So basically everyone scores as their HA...?
But MBTI stats are NOT 80% intuitives. More like 75% sensation types. Perhaps online they are... just as most are introverts. You need to consider the context of where it is. Intuitive introverts are more likely to be spending inordinate amounts of time online, and are going to be more drawn to typology in the first place.
In mbti, "strong willed, gets shit done" is more of a thinking type stereotype. Yet many people score as feeling types. So I don't think your hypothesis is as sound as you claim it to be.
I would say the problem is socionics and its definitions, not Jung or other typing systems. I score high in Openness because that is a dimension of my personality. Same for identifying with Ni in Jungian psychology. However, socionics has Ni tied into being a "victim", being a pussy and being a doormat while Se, its opposite, is seen as just the opposite. I don't think too many men are going to be running to embrace such a queer label.
not everyone but sufficient amount that it skews things significantly, the people that actually give a shit about MBTI mostly type as intuitives because the reason they give a shit is the same reason they type themselves as intuitive: HA
on top of the no-shit intuitives who have no such incentive to likewise crossover, which might otherwise balance the numbers (but in doing so create an ironic inversion of the S/N axis) because sensing is poorly written
it doesn't help that what people commonly understand as sensing is often called intuition and vice versa
this is low Ni Fi, Ne HA in a nutshellsocionics has Ni tied into being a "victim", being a pussy and being a doormat while Se, its opposite, is seen as just the opposite. I don't think too many men are going to be running to embrace such a queer label.
Last edited by Bertrand; 11-11-2017 at 04:58 AM.
no, but it happens, some people are really into their HA
Victim - Ni Ego (ENTj - LIE, ENFj - EIE, INTp - ILI, INFp - IEI)
- prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
- not always confident about revealing that interest
- inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
- inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time
- preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like
- appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
- this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion
- in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"
- inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself
Caregiver - Si Ego (ESFj - ESE, ESTj - LSE, ISFp - SEI, ISTp - SLI)
- attraction is naturally sparked by the perceived aesthetic attributes of the prospective partner, but cooled off if such attributes are accompanied by a perception of "too aggressive" sexuality
- inclination towards tenderness, "soft" rather than "hard" approach
- prone to adopt maternal approach to the physical comfort and needs of partner
- interest is further maintained if partner welcomes this approach
- prone to assume that partner will need help in practical, daily matters
- neutral as to who ended a relationship, "power" is not seen as important in such matters
Aggressor - Se Ego (ESFp - SEE, ESTp - SLE, ISTj - LSI, ISFj - ESI)
- no doubts about own interest in another person
- not prone to hesitation about whether or not to reveal that interest
- focus is more on own interest than whether or not the other person might reciprocate
- romantic interaction is more about "toughness" than "tenderness"
- needs to feel some sense of "superiority" over the partner, but worthwhile only if the partner is seen as able to largely "keep up"
- this takes the form of power games, which others might regard as cruel or bitchy
- in the case of female Aggressors with male partners, the above tends to assume the characteristic of a woman expecting total devotion from the partner, rather than her being "bossy"
- little inclination to externally admit not having been the one to end a relationship, unless if adopting a "who cares" front simultaneously
Sensation is written mostly fine. I know plenty of people who not only perfectly fit the mbti description of Si ego type, but they have no difficulty reconciling being "traditional," "focused on the past" or "Detail-minded" as positives. In fact, they see these qualities and traits as a positive to be sure. And most types that tend to be typed as Se ego types, tend to not care one way or the other because they are too busy actually enjoying their lives and living in the moment to care about crap like typology. I think the only people who tend to get bothered by such descriptions are probably not sensation types to begin with. It is intuitives who wish to be seen as creative, unconventional, unorthodox, novel, imaginative, unique, weird, etc. The average person is perfectly fine being seen as an "ordinary, stable, responsible member of society." Not everyone wants to be a standout snowflake.
Socionics stats indicate the types are evenly distributed among the population, roughly. In mbti/Jungian theory, we have nearly 3/4 of the population as sensation types, making intuitives quite uncommon. So it's clear the types and functions are not being explained in the same way.
What? Source please. : /
Source please? That makes no sense.this is low Ni Fi, Ne HA in a nutshell
This is Ni PoLR:
Ni as Vulnerable Function
The individual prefers to focus on immediate tasks, taking things as they come, rather than try to evaluate the outcome of present trends. Inclination to tell stories or narrate events on a sequential basis, rather than outlining how one event led to another. He perceives time in an undifferentiated manner: the past, present, and future are all perceived as being in or near the present. When talking about the future, especially one's longer-term plan), the individual treats it as if it were accessible today and often is not aware of all the developments that must happen first. He generally has a poor sense of how long things will take and what the best amount of time to spend on things is. Therefore it is difficult for him to stay on schedule without extensive, even total, pre-planning.
None of that fits. I do quite well with timing and planning.
I was describing the online phenomenon of most people typing as intuitive in the MBTI community, not some notional statistic about what the world at large actually is, sorry about your confusion
And again, we've already provided a reason for why that is likely the case. You simply reject it because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion and value judgments about what you personally believe to be true.
not really, my shit holds up if you go out and look
yours doesnt
Provide evidence.
I have just demonstrated how Ni PoLR is incorrect. You are free to claim superior knowledge over a stranger online whom you've never met or spoken to but it makes you appear foolish. Is that your end goal here?
everyone wants to be a special snowflake, it is a milennial thing. tons of sensors wanna be intuitives, cuz mbti makes them sound like superior people. Where ESTJ is the sergeant, ENTJ is the commander, etc..
ESFJ is the caring mother, ENFJ is the spiritual guru that rallies people at their whims, who doesnt wanna be intuitive?
In mbti INTJ = smartest best type
ESFP = dumb partyanimal
In socionics ESFp is a politician, so not stupid at all, and ILI (INTp) The critic. in socionics sensing or intuition isnt really superior to one another, just a way of gathering information, through actual senses or imagination.
im not going to correct every possible misconception of yours with concrete evidence because that's impossible
if you don't believe me that's fine, work it out for yourself
That's because intuition in mbti is somewhat correlated with openness. Hell you even see it in socionics, with alpha NTs being vastly considered the most intelligent types. Am I wrong?
In mbti, neither sensation nor intuitive is better or worse. That is just how some people act.
Well, I don't accept your premise because it is faulty and incorrect. It has nothing to do with your worthless "beliefs."
you remind me of a thinking version of Aylen
And if I knew who that was, that might mean something...
alpha nt ye perhaps, also gamma nt
maybe by some plebs, but victor "el diablo" gulenko considers EIE and ILI the most intellectual types, and opines that that attitude is reflected in society, although of course people aren't actually aware of socionics explicitly, so its an inference he makes based on how society treats the major culture figures
alpha NTs are probably considered the most stereotypically nerdy, like the type most commonly associated with a lab coat and goggles
@Retsu77 , only thing left for you is upload a video. Circling through typings randomly isn't going to help you. You'll never be respected like this.
I'm really not looking for respect.
Anyhow, what would I discuss? I would need a specific objective in order to talk. Sure, I can ramble but... I don't feel that would be productive or a good example of my personality, nor provide any useful answers either. So I would need something to talk about.
answer questionaire, then talk about something you like
Yeah, in mbti I'll test as INTJ, and part of that is that I am high in Openness, very curious and interested in a lot of things.
Yeah, in my eyes that would make me prone to think you are an INTJ, or NI + Te ego. Socionics has its own way of doing things and since it deviates so much from Jung's formula, I question how valuable knowing my type would be.
Answer the same thing I just did? That defeats the purpose and sounds like a big waste of time for me. I respect my time more than that.
I don't talk about shit I like much. I like video games and psychology, I don't want to bore people to death with pointless shit they have no interest in. Again, a waste of my time.
Maybe if people throw out some specific questions or a survey (I haven't answered!) then I'll consider it. Otherwise, I just don't see the point. Also, if specific people ask questions, it will feel more like I'm talking to THEM as individuals, rather than talking to no one.
okay well good luck mate
Si creative is so wacky sometimes
its like they're saying stuff, talking about time, marshaling all these resources, making these claims, creating these impressions, and yet the entire underlying picture is just silly
yeah, making a video would be a waste of time, meanwhile will carry on for months/years or simply give up on what could be relatively easily ascertained. if you don't want to do it, just be honest, what is all this waste of time shit. this is all a waste of time in someone's eyes, the point is you came here, so let's not pretend you're above it all
Well, I'm not Si ego, sorry bro. Doesn't make any sense. At least based on socionics definitions of it.
I don't give a shit who else's time I am wasting. Why should I? I can assure you I do not. My time matters. Yours does not.
Yeah, for me without a clear objective and structure for making a video, I won't bother. It seems pointless otherwise.
This is Si creative:
"The individual is naturally good at organizing relaxing activities and recreation and making sure people are calm and enjoying themselves, but displays this behavior and skill when he sees a specific need for it rather than doing it automatically, all the time. The individual does not place emphasis on being calm and balanced all the time, as opposed to those with Si as a leading function.
The individual is attuned to people's tastes and personal preferences and likes to do things for or give things to friends and family members that will cause them to enjoy themselves and gain pleasure. For example, creating a comfortable, clean, and spacious setting in the home, taking them out to do something they enjoy, or finding opportunities and people with whom they can pursue their hobbies."
What? I don't do any of this shit, nor would I ever. bertrand is either a master troll or a master idiot. This doesn't sound like my dad either (whom some have typed as LSE). It sounds more like some caretaker figure doing some housecleaning for their girlfriends who are coming over to visit.
I hope @Aylen is watching this
What do you want me to see Bert? Don't play games as I have things to do.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I know time is very important to both of you, I just wanted you to meet because I think you have a lot in common and will like eachother
Laughing irl about this thread
If this is just part of your creepy obsession with typing me ESE and making me your activity partner knock it off. I don't see you that way.
Here is your relationship with time.
You would just ignore mine.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
He doesn't seem to understand the functions very well in either Jungian theory OR socionics to be honest. It's a bit pathetic. This leads to him mistyping multiple people.If this is just part of your creepy obsession with typing me ESE and making me your activity partner knock it off. I don't see you that way.
Here is your relationship with time.
You would just ignore mine.
He seems to invent his own version of the functions. Seems Ne creative to me, though I could be mistaken.
this must be the satisfaction cupid feels that keeps him going through the hard times
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haha... 
