another new member

[ooo]

Hello I'm new here too : )
I come from years of interest into mbti, socionics naturally followed, and it was love. I never really got to study it, I'm still a n00b in the advanced things and I'd like to know more. I'd be really glad if you could recommend me some readings too.

My main interest is astrology. Actually I just come from an astrology forum. I've been trying to make people see a more scientific approach to it, but lost my hopes.. The amount of close mindness to the more scientific views I brought up, as well as the self-righteousness of the "traditional practitioners", made me lose my temper.

I value the scientific, real data. I try to incorporate that side to astrology. Lately the resemblances I've always sensed that were with astrology and socionics made themselves more and more apparent, to me... I hope you people will be willing to help me in this discovery.
The ideas may be challenging, but that's what I like.

EII

[rat200Turbo]

State your moon nakshatra

[Capitalist Pig]

[ooo]

bharani lol ( I don't follow Vedic astrology!)

[Tallmo]

've been trying to make people see a more scientific approach to it, but lost my hopes..

What is the scientific approach to astrology that you want people to see? I value astrology as a mythology and symbolic representation of the psyche.

Lately the resemblances I've always sensed that were with astrology and socionics made themselves more and more apparent, to me...

Can you explain what this resemblance is?

[ooo]

The scientific side of astrology can be approached by different angles actually. There's what we can call observation and data gathering, meaning that you collect enough data and try to draw conclusions on the elements you have (most of the times this meant to go against the astrological "dogma" of the tradition); there's the astronomical side itself, because astrology works thanks to it (and this means again to redraw some rules, when new discoveries are made); lastly, there's a scientific field, but at the borders of techinical possibility, that even formulated theories about the real influence of the planets on earth. These seem to support the observational data I mentioned first.

The most important resemblance is with the functions, in the astrological system I use there are more planets than in the traditional system. Each planet resembles a function. And each combination of planets (=functions) form a sign. Just like the socionics Model A, we can divide the psyche in 4 blocks... but they'll actually contain more elements, because I use 12 "planets".

The archetypes are the basis of everything : ) thanks for your interest!

[Sol]

I'd be really glad if you could recommend me some readings too.

E. Filatova "Understanding the People Around You: An Introduction to Socionics"
Classical author. Good for novices.

In MBT you were typed as INFP, I suppose.
Also astrology is more Ni thing. Ne types have lesser interest to mess with esoteric stuff.

[ooo]

Yes my Ni is probably stronger than anything else... but I have no Fe/Te to balance that out.

My approach to astrology is kind of challenging for normal astrologers too, because I don't use Ni as a basis, but I value the Te side of "what can be proved", I have folders with thousands of astro data, and this is basically my work, I'm like an astrology accountant, not a foreteller.

Anyway, I know you don't like subtypes but I'd be a EII-Ne, they should have enhanced Ni ^^


(Yes, I was an MBTI INFP, but here it goes, I've always recognized myself more in the INFJ description in MBTI. One of my closest friends is a MBTI INFJ and we took the test together years and years ago. I was INFP he was INFJ, but the descriptions, we sensed, worked better if we switched roles.
When I discovered socionics I was so glad to read I'd actually be an INFj, because I've always been more reserved and not as bubbly as the INFp descriptions would point out, that instead worked perfectly for my MBTI INFJ friend, who turned to be an INFp in socion... this is problematic though to point out, and I've been spending much time thinking of this switch or considering what type I could be... I recognize myself in both types ultimately, but I feel that my essence is more revolving around what's "right and wrong", instead of just following my visions)

[Sol]

Yes my Ni is probably stronger than anything else... but I have no Fe/Te to balance that out.

If you were correctly typed as INFP in MBT then Ni-Fe is your type. To understand the theory of own type needs some efforts.
If you'll place a video, I'd try to say with assurance what is your type.

[ooo]

If you were correctly typed as INFP in MBT then Ni-Fe is your type. To understand the theory of own type needs some efforts.
If you'll place a video, I'd try to say with assurance what is your type.

MBTI INFP= Fi + Ne (I had no high scores for Ni in MBTI)

[ooo]

I agree the descriptions are the same in both systems but the functions are inverted. INFPs in MBTI are actually INFPs in socionics descriptions, but not in practice.

[Sol]

MBTI INFP= Fi + Ne

no

INFP = introversion + intuition + feeling (ethics) + perceiving (irrationality)
Jung's irrational type may to have only irrational function as main! What means Ni-Fe.
You may compare _direct_ descriptions of J/P and rationality/irrationality in Socionics (books, tests) - they are identical, they are compatible. MBT is not other typology - it's Jung's typology with a mistake.

Practically, as MBT followers use MBTI (which uses only preferences/dichotomies) as main typing way (with official recommendation to fit MBTI result in >70% cases), - the effect of that mistake is minimized and their types are lesser incorrect than'd could. And when they typed correctly(!) according to own preferences/dichotomies - they get always(!) correct Jung's type, which same in Socionics and anywhere.

To do that conversion it needs the situation:
1) MBT uses as main method direct typing by 8 functions, where they decide which are stronger and later by their incorrect model transform to preferences notation
2) Socionics has no compatible dichotomies theory which can be used directly

But we have other situation!
I think MBT have changed the Jung's functional model intentionally to overcome some copyright laws. Such they could to say "It's not Jung's typology - it's our special one". And now they keep this anachronism to "keep good face" that fooled people for tens of years.
Some idiots or bribed ones have implemented the idea that it needs to do strange conversion (like we'd had the said above conditions). The ones who get profit are MBT dudes who may to say that model in Socionics is "just other", overcoming the problem that MBT model is "just wrong". When people read Jung "Psychological Types" (instead of MBT bs) - they may notice that he used terms judging and rational / perceiving and irrational as synonyms! Also they understand the MBT idiocy when as leading function of judging types is said irrational function, what evidently contradicts to Jung.

If you were typed as INFP by MBTI and sure it's correct - then you should place IEI in your profile! Until you'll check your type by common socionics methods like through video + anket. I'm rather sure your type is not EII, but possibly IEI. It's not bad type, it's just other type which fits better to your behavior.

You may easily check are beta T types or delta T types give you more of psychic comfort with my examples in IR test theme. It's quickly.
The best would be also to create typing theme with your video. Then you'd got opinions of others too.

[ooo]

Sorry Sol, but MBTI is not as shallow as you make it seem. I've been studying its methods for a while and was aware of the functions INFP =Fi + Ne long before joining socionics. I've always found rather fascinating that the switch for introverts and extroverts comprehended just the disposition of the irrational function, that is, in MBTI when you're an introvert and have an extrovers perceiving function, you're a P.

Then I discovered socionics, and things clicked because I was a judge mainly, for the same disposition of functions. But Fi is rational, both in MBTI and in socion, despite MBTI doesn't consider that as determining of J and P types.

I'm sorry if I look as your conflictor Sol, I'm sure there are better ways in which people could type me that have less to do about how they perceive me and actually more considering of the way I am.

[ooo]

Why should I upload my video anyway when you've already typed me? :}

[ooo]

@Sol


sorry but the memory of my mobile failed in the end

[ooo]

lol the frame...

[Sol]

@pinoline
based on video I confirm that IEI / INFP is best version for you

[ooo]

@pinoline
based on video I confirm that IEI / INFP is best version for you

I wouldn-t have expected anything else from you Sol, lol

care to explain ?

[Sol]

I wouldn-t have expected anything else from you Sol

As you were with MBT for long, you had good chances to correct your type if it would be wrong. So yes - it was expected. The problem was in your conversion and this moment I've cleared in our discussion.
And your strong Ni was correct in this case.

> care to explain

My main method are intuitive impressions from nonverbal behavior. I feel types traits _directly_ by intuition. Nothing to explain, I feel so you and IR effects from you. Your movements are chaotic for me, I feel no Fi effects, etc. It's senseless to explain - as too subjective description. You may compare yourself with my types examples and to check your IR effects with people of differnt types - this will explain you the situation.
My method is not more crazy than others based on results of my experiments on socioforum, as they have shown similar to other methods typing matches when people used this method (for example, in comparision with ankets).

P.S. you can show you video (it's better to use higher resolution) to other to get probably similar result. this clip or other you can make

[ooo]

You didnt understand anything of MBTI system, Sol, so I don-t see what should I work out about it ?

You mean to compare myself to the whispering fake girls with 2 liters of make up on their faces that you dispalyed as EIIs? Thanks God I don-t look like that! I get that to you EIIs or Fi have to resemble this picture of angelic emotional gurls who are actually in the same time not emotional at all... well thats just not the only picture of EIIs out there, fortunately.

I won-t change my type just to please you and make your whispering ideals more real. Sorry.

ps. why should I trust your intuition when it-s your least developed function, ugh

[Sol]

You didnt understand anything of MBTI system

Give your video to others they'll show you who "didnt understand anything of MBTI system".

> You mean to compare myself to the whispering fake girls with 2 liters of make up on their faces that you dispalyed as EIIs?

With girls which are good to compare your nonverbal with them. Those are all my examples.

> I won-t change my type just to please you and make your whispering ideals more real. Sorry.

Sure. It's reasonable to do just to say truth in your profile. My or your emotions mean nothing here.

> why should I trust your intuition when it-s your least developed function, ugh

Show your video to others, if you don't trust my skills and to theory which unambiguously says INFP is IEI.
Also, as I said, it's easy to check by my types examples. Most men their are not ASMR, compare who is more psychically comfortable for you SLE+LSI vs LSE+SLI.
Also read descriptions of EII and IEI to compare with yourself.

Create new account for typing by your video and don't say beforhand versions of your type - such will be more correctly. Gather opinions, find average and then... begin to trust me.

I suppose we've finished here. (simultaneously)

[ooo]

You said, INFP means Introvert Intuitive Feeling Perceiving. But what does INFJ means then? It-s the same, lol, Introvert, Intuitive, Feeling, Judging.
If you say so, it just shows your knowledge of MBTI is shallow, because of course there are functions in MBTI too, although, for introverts, they-re switched.

The girls you-ve put in your videos as examplex for EIIs are totally different from the male EIIs, this shows your bias, as well as it shows what YOU like to see. I-ve already told you this.
No one of the girls from your videos, in EIIs, seem to really have a Fi attitude, that is, emotional displays of their emotions on their face. No, whispering and being cute is not Fi, that-s what you like to see.
Fi movements are usually asymetricall tics in the face of the Fi people, which noone of your EIIS have.

Maybe you-re a SLE after all?

[ooo]

@Sol https://www.careerplanner.com/8Cogni...ed-Feeling.cfm check this out

Apparently P introverts are the same typed as J in socionics sites.

They0re typing me as Se dominant around internet lol

sorry for the weird symbols, my keyboard is broken eheh

[wasp]

Sol, it's not fair to assign new types to people without their explicit permission, even if it may be well-intentioned. I understand this is common practice on typology forums, but it can discourage people from posting if they feel like every post of theirs is being hyper-analyzed under a scrupulous lens. Maybe permission was granted and I'm just lacking context, but even then I believe there are more tactful and effective ways to go about the typing process.

[ooo]

Thanks waspy, u're the best and uh... u're just the best. I promised Sol to show him my video though, so he didn't force anything. I just think he's been honest, most people around tell me I'm not a EII, but that's actually the only way I feel? Uh.

There's always a split I guess between what is the essence of something and its perception for different people, we see what we're ready to see... and what we want. Sol typed me as Beta from the scratch, and never changed his mind. Tis all fine =)

[Aylen]

Sorry Sol, but MBTI is not as shallow as you make it seem. I've been studying its methods for a while and was aware of the functions INFP =Fi + Ne long before joining socionics. I've always found rather fascinating that the switch for introverts and extroverts comprehended just the disposition of the irrational function, that is, in MBTI when you're an introvert and have an extrovers perceiving function, you're a P.

Then I discovered socionics, and things clicked because I was a judge mainly, for the same disposition of functions. But Fi is rational, both in MBTI and in socion, despite MBTI doesn't consider that as determining of J and P types.

I'm sorry if I look as your conflictor Sol, I'm sure there are better ways in which people could type me that have less to do about how they perceive me and actually more considering of the way I am.

I went through this whole thing with him over the j/p divide so I find this a little extra amusing. I threw so much info at him, in various threads, that he didn't even bother to read so I made a thread which he didn't read either..

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...3-INFj-vs-INFp

I saw part of your video but didn't have headphones at the time so I could barely hear. I came back to finish it but it was gone. You are so adorable it hurts.

[ooo]

I went through this whole thing with him over the j/p divide so I find this a little extra amusing. I threw so much info at him, in various threads, that he didn't even bother to read so I made a thread which he didn't read either..

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...3-INFj-vs-INFp

I saw part of your video but didn't have headphones at the time so I could barely hear. I came back to finish it but it was gone. You are so adorable it hurts.

Aw you missed my anarchist ramble
Sol made me discover one thing or 2 that I didn't know anyway, I like conflict in general, it makes me discover new things... I didn't know how Fi is similar to Fe and Ni to Ne... and maybe I'm just really too dreamy to be a J. I don't think socionics is ultimately a decision about rational and irrational letters (J P) but if we have to fit to these to 16 strict types, then yes, I guess I look more like a INFp.
I don't get, at this point, why is Te still my least valued function. I would give it a great value in order to determine my EII typing... Te is still my least used function, yet it seems to get in the way with my conflict... logically, how couldn't it if I never use it...? But I was convinced that the least used was the one we were seeking... maybe it ain't so.

[Chae]

Greetings, ay ay what's going on here!!

[ooo]

I saw some of your video, too, @pinoline, before it was deleted. You seem very nice You reminded me a bit of Fay/Owl from a video she posted on here before. It was just an impression I had at the time.

:] i'm a potato but thank u! Owl said many many things I really feel as well.. tis getting interesting now. Aylen is my Sagi buddy <3 . Yo Betas.

[ooo]

Greetings, ay ay what's going on here!!

Idk Chae Idk...

[FreelancePoliceman]

@ooo, what’s up? Would you be willing to teach neophytes such as myself in the arcane art of astrology?

[ooo]

I was so hoping you were not gonna resurface this shame on u

[ooo]

@FreelancePolicemanbtw im super interested in drawing charts, send me all your pvt data in pm

[Sol]

> I'm still a n00b

yep

[para]

@ooo @Sol
You're cute.

[ooo]

^__^