Ne:Ni.::Exploded schematic:Flowchart
Not literally, but to represent the difference between a static picture or snapshot, and interactions flowing towards different outcomes.
Ne:Ni.::Exploded schematic:Flowchart
Not literally, but to represent the difference between a static picture or snapshot, and interactions flowing towards different outcomes.
I'm ADD inattentive subtype (no, not a misunderstood dreamer, a person who used to take 20 minutes to tie her own shoes as a kid because she kept forgetting what she was doing).Originally Posted by Pookie
There's not hyperactivity persay but I am very impulsive off my medicine because it takes the brakes off of my decision making. I just end up doing things unintentionally. It's like living in a daze. I'm both restless and listless... I might be sitting down and suddenly the next time I look at what I'm doing my feet are on the table. So I take my feet off the table and five minutes later they are there again, and I don't know when I put them there. People describe me as very "loopy" on the days where I forgot to take it (because, you know, ADD...) and they find it cute. I hate it. I know that I am not in my right mind but there's not much I can do until the next day when I have to put in double the effort to make up for everything I didn't do because I could only eek out the bare minimum the day before, motivated by fear of failure, and all I can say the next day is "sorry, I was a little distracted yesterday" because it's true enough.
I will pick up a book and I want to read it but my mind keeps wandering. It's a little like this. And a little like this... it's not necessarily that I notice all these sounds but that overlapping effect where once you lose the thread of focus everything starts blurring and you just keep falling behind and you're just struggling to catch up constantly, that's very much my ADD experience. You know that feeling when you're driving somewhere, and you realize partway through that you ended up driving to work because you zoned out, and now you have to reorient yourself?
Think of it happening again, and again, and again. Or maybe when you walk into a room, and you forget why you're there... again and again.
Sorry for the ramble, I just tend to get on my soapbox about my experiences with ADD sometimes. I feel like my ADD brain is consistent with the same socionics pattern that my normal one is, it's just a lot hazier. If anything, I probably come across slightly more extroverted because my inhibitions are lower, but that's about it.
----
To return to the topic, Ni to me is about asking "What does this information signify?". "What does it imply?". "What conclusions can be drawn here?". Vibe. Sense. Jist. I try to form my own personal impression of a situation to obtain the correct understanding of it all.
Last edited by Stellafera; 04-15-2017 at 04:01 AM.
Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd
the problem with Ni is its always only one possible way the facts could hang together, not decisively the only way the facts truly are; something that is a huge liability and leaves many Ni egos cut off from reality. that movie clip perfectly illustrates the convincingness of a Ni revelation, but imagine if the person acted on it and turned out to be wrong (hugh jackman torturing the victim in prisoners, etc). its probably a good thing Se is on the low end because that level of passivity keeps them more in information gathering mode which helps buffer against hasty acts
@Starfall I can't respond for some reason due to some shady code that chrome is blocking. I do relate to the essence of what you posted. I wrote more than this the first time and lost it when I hit post. grrr
I am posting these links and quotes to show my transition from a purely metaphysical view of Ni into a socionicis framework. I have since revised my broader understanding to include both perspectives but it shows me taking my first baby steps into a new system. Totally cringe worthy but I don't care.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...R-am-I-psychic
For those who won't read far enough to get to this part, I will quote it to save you the strain of rolling your eyes.
When I posted this I wasn't seriously looking for a psychic diagnosis. I was exploring how my functions operate but it was an informative thread (reading replies) and I shared some interesting observations I have made over the years. Thanks for the replies.
I am quoting this too because @Slade is on the right track plus I appreciated him jumping when clarity was not my primary motivation for posting. I was feeling drained at the thought of posting anything else in this thread. I also agree with his last paragraph about imagination but since I can't quote anyone I will just mention it here.
I am so going to use you right now... to share our earlier conversation.
I think I do pick up on the external objects in reality pretty well. I just filter them through Ni and in that way I am probably never going to strengthen my Se in a way that it will be fully conscious. I notice the birds, the trees, colors, the guy smoking on the corner (giving me a weird look) and all that other external solid reality stuff but in a way it feels more dreamlike to me than the internal intuitive state, I am used to, which feels more solid, to me, in a sense. I had written about this in the "how do you drive" thread before but I only considered this was an unconscious use of Se after talking to Myst today. My inner world does feel pretty solid to me and the outer world can feel surreal when I am processing Se through Ni.I do remind myself to watch out for walls, to pay attention when I put something down so I do not lose it or to hold onto my cup so I don't spill it.
"AYLEN: heh i like driving on open roads alone
no other cars in my way but i can navigate around others pretty fast
my reflexes seem to be fastest when i drive
as in i can see when someone is about to cut me off and i have swerved to avoid being hit.
my sle friend was amazed at that lol
they said it was like i already know what is happening into the future lol
which is kind of true because on the road a half mile ahead is my future
so i am looking ahead at what the patterns of traffic are and like i use this stuff without thinking"
To me praise of my Se use from a Se ego feels pretty damn good. I get to feel all badass for a moment. I also get a sense of satisfaction being praised on Ti but it is different. Like more content but it doesn't make me feel as cocky and ready to rule the world.
Last edited by Aylen; 04-15-2017 at 06:14 AM. Reason: typo
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Gantt charts are for planning ahead but they are also, or even more so, about breaking things down and creating order (Ti). This has to do with the +Ti/-Ni interaction in my view.
I think, not so much, because the chart is more like where you're at now in comparison to where you've come and where you need to go along a single path. It's static, like a point along a number line. Yes, the whole line is drawn out, but it's more capturing just where you are now. As far as charts go, I think a flowchart works better for a comparison because it is a better (though not perfect) capture of the dynamic nature, how it's always altering based on different inputs.
(If you were however to make a dynamically adjusting Gantt chart, that automatically readjusted its picture with you, that'd be closer to Ni than the normal static version)
It is the perceptions of trends on a level distinct from bodily senses.
But is it just a good example of V-S cognition?
Something in common I noticed about Ni egos here of various types, most notably members like @Wyrd, @Cassandra, @Aylen and @Adam Strange, is that they all seem to have this gift for making their post "draw you in" and immerse you into whatever subject they are discussing, as opposed to just stating their thoughts in raw form. Whatever Ni is, it definitely has something to do with being able to project your thoughts in a story like fashion.
The video here was really interesting to me! I think it does a really really good way of showing the dynamic nature of Ni that's hard to get across in text. Like how Ni derives meaning. We talked about it earlier and I like how I can see the contrasts it has with static Ne and how that gets it's own meaning. Like I see the flower changing from black to red as the clearest example of this. Like the flower changing from a husk to something vibrant is what gave it meaning here. Vibrant a time back when things were alive. Flashback to scene back when his daughter was alive. That's dynamic. Dynamic thinking seems more like a synthesis of associations. It's not the flower specifically. But how the flower changes and it's relations change over time here in this example. The flower it changed; it expressed itself. That's the meaning. How it changed and developed gave it its meaning.This video kind of demonstrates how I view Ni and how I experience it. I'd say this is basically how I visualize the world, by default:
Notice how the man is mostly in his head, creates mental visions related to objects that spark stimuli, and kind of pieces past and present information/vibes together to come to the inner conclusion that the neighbor that he was speaking with murdered his daughter? It's like he just KNOWS that this man did the crime, but he can't necessarily prove anything or explain how he came to the conclusion. He came to the conclusion by simultaneously connecting feelings, vibes, visions and memories of past events, piecing them together to form a bigger picture. Now, imagine experiencing every moment of your existence in this way just by default, only it doesn't feel or come off nearly as "magical" or "mystical" as shown in this clip because it's just an everyday/every moment thing, and basically how you're used to both processing and experiencing the world on a regular basis (if you can even say you're actually experiencing the world in itself, because the biggest percentage of your day is going on inside your mental landscapes, as opposed to experiencing the scenery, objects and sensations around you).
Maybe some of you can correct me if I'm wrong about this actually being Ni, but this is basically how my mind works. I've posted this video in the past referencing how I experience the world before. I'm particularly interested to see if @Aylen relates at all.
Contrast this to how @Herzy, a Se ego experiences the world. She wrote an excellent post going into detail about thishttp://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1182499
Contrast that how I see Ne. Ne the static function. Fi is also a static function. For static function the object is what it is. It's meaning is where it fits in time and space. Static information elements I think draw meaning by drawing a line between different objects. And a picture forms if you connect enough dots. Like the static way to deal with that same situation in the video? You hold the rose. You remember a time back when you also got a rose from this man. You remember how the strange man didn't really want you close. Was not comfortable with the two of you. But you do remember him being drawn to your daughter riding by. Strange. These are all specific discrete events. And they make a picture when you put them together like this.
Both these modes of perception have their "click" moment. But how they go about it is different. I see intuitive types as building a picture in their head to get meaning. And this is how it can be different between a dynamic intuitive and a static intuitive. There are other things in the video that vibe as Ni to me. I know the flower isn't the best example. But it is the easiest for comparisons sake.
It also reminds me of Herzy's walk post. In it she noted having flash backs what had a strong effect on her. Rarely happens but when it does it's always notable. But she expressed not being able to derive the meaning from that flashback. That experience seems similar to the experience in the video. Watching this video I think an intuitive type, Ni, would have naturally gotten the meaning from that same experience.
Last edited by uniden; 04-15-2017 at 09:13 PM.
It's about creating the right frame of mind, I think. Recreate and intensify the same details that Ni capitalized on in forming their own impressions so that you get the same image.
Like when you're telling a ghost story, and of course the lights in the room are dim already to set the atmosphere, and you FLICKER THE FLASHLIGHT ON AND OFF SHOUTING WILD EYES STARING AT EVERYONE until you bring your voice back to a normal tone, to keep things more calm before the next twist comes...
Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd
"Recreate"? The impression is beyond time and space, it's just a matter of finding it /
That's what I meant by recreate, actually. Think I probably could've picked a better word."Recreate"? The impression is beyond time and space, it's just a matter of finding it /
Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd
Evoke?
You mean Si? To quote Augusta: "When this element of perception is in the leading position, the individual has the ability to change the qualities of the surrounding space and influence the sensations of people within it. He is able to avoid physical discomfort and protect others from it. This element is defined bby the ability to recreate previously experienced aesthetic sensations. An excellent example is Peter Paul Rubens, who created his paintings not from nature, but from his memory of once experienced aesthetic sensations. By paintings, he sought to evoke in the viewer certain aesthetic experiences. Such creativity constitutes the recreation of an object that is able to provide other people with aesthetic sensations that were intended by its creator. When an individual of this type is preparing something, he starts from envisioning all the associated qualities that the final product will have."
Last edited by Jake; 04-17-2017 at 08:24 AM.
i think this goes to the allure of the underlying narrative or "conceptual vision" (Ni) or the formal qualities of the post (Si). poetry or literature often is structured and populated in such a way it recreates a vivid sensory experience, but other writing is pure intuition (philosophy/religion/polemic); and most is a mix of both to one degree or another
I would both agree and disagree with you. No, I don't think Ni brings any form of underlying narrative to the situation that is easy for anyone besides the individual him or herself. Si is much more able to do this, even Se. Considering N elements are Detached and S elements are involved, I think it's plain to see why this would make sense.
If someone is really good at doing something and it pertains to an IM element, 9 times out of 10 that element is in the Ego or Id blocks.
i feel like if you ran with this definition then everything communicated via sensing would be Sx and not whatever the expression was meant to represent... to some extent the expression may be rendered via sensing but I believe the underlying attraction and admiration the OP was trying to convey was for the intuitions they feel come across in those poster's posts (like I said, a mix of both, by necessity, but the intent was to emphasize their appreciation for the intuitive elements)
That'sis about the sensations, how people felt, the details, etc.
Here's an example offacts, and +Ni works with
to evaluate things as concepts, hence the
So this thread ends on a bunch of
"EVERYONE IS
...And still no one has agreed on how to describe
I think Jung's definition's Ni was more useful, because at least it acknowledged that it WAS a vague mumbo jumbo instead of pretending that it's some scientific thing that can be clearly defined:
Introverted intuition (Ni)
Introverted intuition is the intuition that acts in an introverted and thus, subjective manner. Introverted intuition is a function that is often described as hard to explain,[20] due to its highly inward and intangible nature. The introverted intuition type has the ability to 'thread' multiple sources of phenomena into a certain view or vision.[21] This is contrary to its opposite, extraverted sensation, which sees things as they comes and in a very concrete manner.[20] The lack of this extraverted sensation can often make the Ni type a very dogged character, ignoring what is apparent and focusing on their synthesised worldview. Unlike its introverted irrational counterpart, introverted sensation, introverted intuition looks not to indulge in a meticulous cataloging of physical experiences and recalling them when the user perceives similarity in their subjective experiences of current reality (since Si doesn't objectively experience reality unlike Se) but always looks for future implications of the observable reality and how one chain of event leads to another. It always goes beyond the concrete data where Si does not.
Where Ne perceives breadth, Ni compensates this with depth in its perceptions.
Ni operates together with Se, forming the Se-Ni axis.[17] It observes the physical properties of objects vividly (Se) and perceives possibilities in the inner world (Ni), where these perceptions are subjective and diluted by the subject's biases hence, these associations are personal to the subject and in no way represent reality, but an abstract interpretation. This gives higher Ni users intense focus and an air of mysticism. Ni dominants always go beyond the objective physical concreteness of objects and find their interpretation more interesting and delicious. Ni-Se can be termed as conjecturing.
Freud is documented to have stolen from this idea, and I'm sure Jung did too. In that case, Si is repressed Ne, and Ni is repressed Se. Jung explicitly states that some elements come from the repression of others and this causes specific pathologies later on, and if you combine this, you can see much more clearly where Ni and Si come from. Ni is a bunch of interpretations of action (Se) and Si is a bunch of interpretations of environmental objects (Ne).Internalisation in man (as a pathological state). Internalisation
arises as a result of the imposition of social order, wherein powerful
instincts are denied outward expression, and seek recourse by turning
inward in an alliance with the imagination. The urge toward hostility,
cruelty, revenge, and violence is reversed, “repressed”; in the thirst
for knowledge there lurks both greed and the desire for conquest; in
the artist, the repressed powers of dissimulation and falsehood are
brought forth; the instincts are thus transformed into demons against
which we struggle, etc.
This is bit similar. Books make thing around issue. Poking it, generalizing it, thinking alternatives. Hard to concentrate.
However I think AD(H)D is usually misapplied label in cases like these.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
If minds goes towards future it has to have ability to tune into different data points for extrapolation and interpolation (also specifics).
Mind mixes miscellaneous data for single and multi route fashion to estimate time where all the data points are connected to one specific outcome.
One specific example:
Let's say there have been moments A, B, C, D and E.
Point A says: when this happened this happened
Point A outcome anchors point B which lead to one specific outcome
Point B outcome reminds of mixed state between C, D, E therefore considering those circumstances we can interpolate final outcome.
It sounds extremely clear in abstract but under the hood it is complicated.
OTOH I might have way too flexible thought process for many.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
...That's not really clear at all. Outlining things in terms of theory doesn't make them easier to understand. Often it does the opposite. That's like trying to teach general relativity to show how falling works. It's much easier to understand from experience, and adding in the theory completely confuses things by removing them from experience.If minds goes towards future it has to have ability to tune into different data points for extrapolation and interpolation (also specifics).
Mind mixes miscellaneous data for single and multi route fashion to estimate time where all the data points are connected to one specific outcome.
One specific example:
Let's say there have been moments A, B, C, D and E.
Point A says: when this happened this happened
Point A outcome anchors point B which lead to one specific outcome
Point B outcome reminds of mixed state between C, D, E therefore considering those circumstances we can interpolate final outcome.
It sounds extremely clear in abstract but under the hood it is complicated.
OTOH I might have way too flexible thought process for many.
I agree with this. If we talk Ni within EIE it might come across of dealing with how events will change the mood in people. The bottom half of your post was really information dense.IEs don't exist independently in socionics. That's why I like to use the + and - signs often, because it's a good shorthand for what you're really referring to.or
Well, I learn things from equations more than from experience.I start to simulate things in my mind to a point I don't have to read anything as it becomes obvious.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I think OP gave up after realizing that he wasn't going to get the right type of answer lol
OP: Hey what's Ni in Ti+ terms?
Someone: Butterflies make me happy
Someone else: Well don't forget that butterflies are caterpillars too
Another: Butterflies and caterpillars should work together in harmony
Person: This one time butterflies ate my pancakes
OP, Ni would be the information stream across two connected PC boards. How both their circuits map out together would be Fi. A single boards information stream is Fe. The pulses on the connecting pins that represent the information actually exiting a single board, and junk moving on the board due to its internal stream is Te. External shape required to even match up for a connection with another board is Se. How everything on the board internally lines up, what there is, and how it can possibly process junk from other boards is Ne. Si is similar to Te, but, like Fi and Ni, its looking at the total of the two boards together with all their junk moving and stuff (board to motors is good example). Ti is how the boards are actually physically arranged together.
If you ever read this, maybe you can use such for your understanding.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Someone is ignoring possibilities.
What if sweets exist and also something else?
Keeping promises in some way but it is not going to change dreaded end result.
Let jury decide.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Honestly, none of you assholes really give a shit what it is. You just want to argue about it and how different typologies say different things, sometimes contradictory or unrelated, and just like what you agree with and disparage or ignore what you don't. What the shit is the point in talking about it?
Speak for yourself. I actually try and come up constructive and practical stuff.
My earlier post is an example of such. Is it right? Who knows. Bukalov doesn't answer my emails lol. Does it utilize practical examples of the whole "internal dynamics of fields" in an illustration catered to the comp Sci OP? Yes.
Idk wtf other people actually do with Socionics, but that doesn't mean I myself have to just circle jerk it.
The whole point of Hansel and Gretel is that the witch gets thrown in the oven.
You can't learn things without experience. That's why many languages have two different words for know. Learning equations is only a representation.
Really? I always thought it was "don't be greedy" in kids terms since they don't have a concept of money. At least, that's what I learned from it as a kid lol
Two kids scared, lost, hungry, abandoned by the people who are supposed to love and care for them should not be greedy? Sounds legit. :/
I was taught it meant to be wary of strangers no matter how kind they appear and use your head.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
But they try and eat a house... Lol
For me, I believe Ni is imagining the cycles of life and trying to understand how belief systems fit together; how people/society subsist through hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance, imagining myself living a certain amount of years in the past. Seeing myself and other people as older and younger. I love when I meet someone older than me, say they are 30 now. If you are 30 in 2017, you were 20 in 2007, when I was 10. So I imagine the music they listened to in 2007 and what culture and life was like for them at 20 vs. me at 10. This is one of my favorite fun little things to do actually. I like to think of the generations of people. Generation X, baby boomers etc. It is still mystifying to me how old people now were once young.
Not so sure if this is potential trolling but
Experience helps you decide when your conclusions are correct based on previous abstractions you made (which you formulated from experiences).
Hansel Gretel: Why you should not trust strangers when it seems too good to be true.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Wow, that resembles EII at least from distance.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
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