Donald Trump

[crazymaisy]

Unfortunately for me I think he is SEE as well (gag me with a spoon) very, very, very unhealthy though.

[Averroes]

If he's SEE, then it completely it changes my perception of the type and what it means to share a quadra with someone. He fits the archetype of an SEE demagogue, but i can't rationalize his behavior the way I can with other crazy SEEs like Kanye

[Adam Strange]

If he's SEE, then it completely it changes my perception of the type and what it means to share a quadra with someone. He fits the archetype, but i can't rationalize his behavior the way I can with other crazy SEEs like Kanye

Trump is an extremely damaged individual.

[Toro]

The man is SEE. Caesar and Napoleon weren't exactly saints either tbh, so I'm not too bothered by it.

[Aster]

I agree he is SEE. Watch something on him on Netflix a few weeks ago. SEE have more flexible Fi, anyway. It’s used as a creative ‘function’ and it if I remember right, seems to serve their Te HA. SEE’s can appear pretty good at Te, but Trump isn’t actually as great at Te as he would like his image displayed to the mainstream, according to the documentary. And when he talked in his younger days it was like Se->Fi boom boom over and over lol

he’s too irrational (and not in the P way, but like in the F way) to be SLE, imo

[Xima]

SLE in my book!

[ILoveChinchillas]

I agree he is SEE. Watch something on him on Netflix a few weeks ago. SEE have more flexible Fi, anyway. It’s used as a creative ‘function’ and it if I remember right, seems to serve their Te HA. SEE’s can appear pretty good at Te, but Trump isn’t actually as great at Te as he would like his image displayed to the mainstream, according to the documentary. And when he talked in his younger days it was like Se->Fi boom boom over and over lol

he’s too irrational (and not in the P way, but like in the F way) to be SLE, imo

He has enhanced Te and Fe because he's D subtype.

[Ocean Man]

Trump is an extremely damaged individual.

Possibly the result of a childhood "Supervision" relation, usually a psychopathic father is responsible regardless.

[Adam Strange]

Possibly the result of a childhood "Supervision" relation, usually a psychopathic father is responsible regardless.

I believe that Trump’s father was a very unhealthy LSI, who forced Trump to obey him, hence Trump’s otherwise puzzling relationship with Putin (LSI).

[Ocean Man]

I believe that Trump’s father was a very unhealthy LSI, who forced Trump to obey him, hence Trump’s otherwise puzzling relationship with Putin (LSI).

It is possible he inherited psychopathic traits from the father. According to my own theory, some people simply do not have types as they are psychopathic. While psychopathic people would often be typed as SLE or SEE (as their behavior could correspond to these profiles fairly easily), it is not their real type, as they are devoid of an actual type. Psychopath, would be their type, yet it would not be a type that could be accurately depicted in any mainstream or official system outside of the DSM.

[hellohellohello]

Extraverted Sensation & Introverted Feeling: SEE

[welcometomania]

SLE: DCNH Dominant - (subtype subject to change according to various circumstances)

[Metamorph]

My vote is for SEE because he seems like he has Gamma values over Beta (Te > Ti primarily.)

I also wish people would stop putting polls on these threads, as if it mattered what most people thought of people's types, as if truth were simply what most people happened to say or think. I never put polls on mine because I don't think most people's opinions of someone's type matters or legitimates their typing. Experts' opinions matter more. I see SEE is popular at least but most people vote SLE. Why? Trump does not seem Beta at all. The answer of course is, Sturgeon's Law applies to people too, so in fact you can trust most people to be wrong when you're in doubt if anything.

[Adam Strange]

Why do these guys always look alike?

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...r-previous-guy

[xerx]

1:02 -- Make America Great [Again].

[welcometomania]

using a lot of "I-statements" doesn't exclude some1 from being Fi-PolR

i think that's where a lot of mistyping(s) comes from

[WinnieW]

I see SEE is popular at least but most people vote SLE. Why? Trump does not seem Beta at all.

Maybe because of quadra values. Gamma is a democratic quadra, and D. Trump does shows autocratic behavior, so people put him in an aristrocratic Se-valued quadra.

My pov: He has the egocentric "who is not with me is against me" attitude, which is likely based on introverted judgement.
...and in case his slogan "make america great again" based on his Fi than he will make USA great what he thinks is great, not what millions of people in the US think it's great... in case he will be president in 2024 again.

Calling J. Biden "enemy of the state" might be an example of D. Trumps Fi at work.

[Poptart]

Pre-2016 Trump Organization was run by Trump and his small inner circle of like 12 employees. Three of those employees were his children. His personal secretary has been there since the 80s. Former CFO Allen Weisselberg worked for Trump for FIFTY years, is going to prison for committing tax fraud for Trump Organization, and didn’t rat out Trump and probably never will. Two of his other top Trump Organization employees began working for Trump in 1981. Loyalty is highly valuable to him, he knows this, and he knows how build relationships with people who are loyal. This is why I think SEE > SLE for Trump.

Also, Golihov wrote a great description of Fi creative types. Would recommend reading it before typing Trump as SLE

[Adam Strange]

Pre-2016 Trump Organization was run by Trump and his small inner circle of like 12 employees. Three of those employees were his children. His personal secretary has been there since the 80s. Former CFO Allen Weisselberg worked for Trump for FIFTY years, is going to prison for committing tax fraud for Trump Organization, and didn’t rat out Trump and probably never will. Two of his other top Trump Organization employees began working for Trump in 1981. Loyalty is highly valuable to him, he knows this, and he knows how build relationships with people who are loyal. This is why I think SEE > SLE for Trump.

Also, Golihov wrote a great description of Fi creative types. Would recommend reading it before typing Trump as SLE

@Poptart, can you provide a link to Golihov's description?

[Poptart]

@Poptart, can you provide a link to Golihov's description?

Sure—you have to scroll down a little bit. It’s in the “Aspects of the Valued Functions by Dmitry Golihov” section:
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...overted_ethics

[Adam Strange]

Sure—you have to scroll down a little bit. It’s in the “Aspects of the Valued Functions by Dmitry Golihov” section:
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...overted_ethics

Thank you.

[welcometomania]

@Poptart what is your sociotype ?

[Poptart]

@Poptart what is your sociotype ?

SEI and don’t hold it against me

[Fake Intellectual]

I'm voting SEE. I see more Fi than Fe, and more Te than Ti, although SLE is still not a bad choice. Definitely a close one. Way to aggressive to be LIE.

[Bethanyclaire]

I think he’s SLE. He reminds me a bit of my LSE boss, on a different level of course. But they both do this thing where you can’t tell if they know they’re an asshole- but you know they know sometimes. I guess it can be overall magnetic effect or something- like they learn to use their weakness to their advantage. With someone with power, skill and harsh political views…it’s damaging, huh reading that over it sounded better in my head. I guess it’s that they act so oblivious…and then so harsh…the disconnect is the ick

is this a problem of our times?


there is a weird doctor who episode where the people get trapped on a plane with a creature- and it just keeps mimicking them (literally copying what they say). It mimics back their fears, paranoia, ugliness. It’s really disturbing and the people get really wound up from what I remember. People like people who act like a victim..whilst being an asshole- it makes them feel better about themselves. I noticed this at work- a lot of the soft hearted people empathise with the mean LSE..even just slightly. Because they don’t want to think of anyone being harsh on them. It’s quite creepy to see. I guess someone usually comes along and shakes things up, but there was a woman who killed herself on the team- and I think that work place can make people feel really disempowered- like the managers are the masters- who gatekeep knowledge and keep you in a state of dependence and submission. But yeah people can be really controlled subtly by someone mimicking their core fears..the managers act like a defensive parent, (it’s for your own good) a victim, and people just listen to everything they say. I have learnt some things from the gentle colleagues- they are good negotiators when it comes to improving work conditions, but the collective inability to call out bullying is not their strength. They don’t look out for the little person enough- they do a bit, but mostly they care about the middle. I guess this is the middle class mindset

Unlike Trump voters they are liberal (also don’t earn a lot really)- so I guess this sort of brain washing is effective on any mass group that doesn’t have security- if I’m right in thinking most Trump voters are poorer Americans

[Finaplex]

I think he’s SLE. He reminds me a bit of my LSE boss, on a different level of course. But they both do this thing where you can’t tell if they know they’re an asshole- but you know they know sometimes. I guess it can be overall magnetic effect or something- like they learn to use their weakness to their advantage. With someone with power, skill and harsh political views…it’s damaging, huh reading that over it sounded better in my head. I guess it’s that they act so oblivious…and then so harsh…the disconnect is the ick

is this a problem of our times?


there is a weird doctor who episode where the people get trapped on a plane with a creature- and it just keeps mimicking them (literally copying what they say). It mimics back their fears, paranoia, ugliness. It’s really disturbing and the people get really wound up from what I remember. People like people who act like a victim..whilst being an asshole- it makes them feel better about themselves. I noticed this at work- a lot of the soft hearted people empathise with the mean LSE..even just slightly. Because they don’t want to think of anyone being harsh on them. It’s quite creepy to see. I guess someone usually comes along and shakes things up, but there was a woman who killed herself on the team- and I think that work place can make people feel really disempowered- like the managers are the masters- who gatekeep knowledge and keep you in a state of dependence and submission. But yeah people can be really controlled subtly by someone mimicking their core fears..the managers act like a defensive parent, (it’s for your own good) a victim, and people just listen to everything they say. I have learnt some things from the gentle colleagues- they are good negotiators when it comes to improving work conditions, but the collective inability to call out bullying is not their strength. They don’t look out for the little person enough- they do a bit, but mostly they care about the middle. I guess this is the middle class mindset

Unlike Trump voters they are liberal (also don’t earn a lot really)- so I guess this sort of brain washing is effective on any mass group that doesn’t have security- if I’m right in thinking most Trump voters are poorer Americans

Your manager sounds like a true NPD, narcissistic personality disorder.

Same as Trump. It can be speculated what causes it, but in the end the effects are all the same: a ego complex that is overblown internally and damages external people around them.

Trump is malignant narcissist. It's literally a brain disorder. This isn't being hyperbolic. That means he could be "some" good, but also much bad.

[Expansion]

I think this fits more than Fe and Ti

 

Te as activating function in SEE (ESFp; Napoleon) and IEE (ENFp; Huxley)

For this individual knowledge is paramount, a measure of worth: “If there is something I don’t know - I’m inferior”. Therefore, very often they claim they know how something is done, while in reality not knowing it (often in hopes that they will research it later, and that no one will suspect that they were bluffing). Sometimes, in self-defense, you can hear them say “I don’t know”, shamefully admitting to their weakness. It is also important for them to have some personal territory, a place where they have the opportunity to be in charge. They love to learn, because acquired knowledge increases their self-esteem. Nothing pleases them more as to receive a high mark on some subject. Such person is very attentive to objective reality: any violation in the order of things stresses him. He likes to reinforce own claims with links to an authoritative sources, statistics and facts, but cannot analyze them in terms of understanding. His vocation: the keeper of factual knowledge. Can’t stand any measure of chaos in information, when nothing is clear. In such situations, tries to simplify the information: “Do we have any actual, concrete facts and figures? Lets start with these. ” “If there is order in my world - then I am good, if not - then I’m bad.” Have a tendency to idealize their “objective” picture of the world and authoritative figures. That is, they view it as what actually exists, even if they are in error and many of their facts are specious. Often become followers of something, of some “order of things” and attempt to implement this order everywhere. Getting promoted to higher position usually recruit “their” people who accept their “order of things” and their actions. Very important concept for them: “If I am the owner, I am the boss in my territory.” It does not matter what the size of this territory is: a room or an entire state, as long as their authority has been accepted by everyone. Sometimes this takes a comical shape: a guard of some area considers himself to be in the right to decide whether or not to let you in based on his personal whims. In personal life, this can lead to elevated demands placed on potential partners: it is necessary to fully accept all of their outward actions, but this can be done only up to certain extent. Often they are aware that finding such ideal in principle not possible. Violation of the order of things by their subordinates is a serious offense - have you arrived too late? Thus you destroyed his order. If he is not the boss, then it is important for him to know exactly the extent of his responsibilities, otherwise he may not take up someone else’s “order of things.” Love to order people around if opportunity presents itself: relatives, subordinates, depending on how far their concept of territory extends itself.

Fi as creative function in SEE (ESFp; Napoleon) and IEE (ENFp; Huxley)

He is frequently conveying to others his attitude towards them. Uses his own attitude towards someone to manipulate them. Aims to give his evaluation to everything that surrounds him, judges what is ‘good’ and what is ‘bad’. Sometimes he can change his sympathies and antipathies several times a day, very amorous and inconstant in this respect. Looks for a place where others would be interested in his views on any issue. Thus he may find his vocation as artistic director, since in this sphere his judgement is often accepted and valued. As a manager or leader his approach remains the same, however, acceptance of his judgement here will be lower. He himself refers to his evaluations as “work in progress”, something mundane, commonplace to him: first he praises someone, then scolds them, then praises them again. Not being in a position to do this, it looks inadequate, so often this serves as incentive for him to achieve such a position, and thus quietly “sell” his products for which there is small demand in society. Usually none at all, because those who are critical of everyone often no one likes. He is frequently perceived as someone who has arrived with “his own charter in a foreign land”. He immediately begins to look and evaluate everything: “this is good, but that is poor” “I like this, but not that”. He is interested in conflict situations, and can even provoke them since then he will have a job: to assess. These people often win the sympathies of others by participating in their problems: they are aware and interested in them, they can adjust to another person to better get in touch. Therefore, they often make for good politicians. Their advantage is the ability to play on requests of the voters, to know what they want. Their relations are rarely reliable - “today I like you, tomorrow you’re not in favor, and day after I like you again”. Even their hate can easily one day turn into love. For them feelings is alike an interesting game. They know price to everything, so can make for good evaluators and tasters. Seldom they leave a member of opposite sex without their assessment. Their assessments can sometimes sound like moralizing, but there is no consistency to their judgements. Sometimes the situation requires that they adapt their valuation to “opinions of others.” In such cases they may put it into more acceptable formulation, for example “it is said that …”. If you try to specify who is saying that, it turns out that he has merely used the phrase about public opinion to cunningly hide his own opinion.

[PineappleDuckCurry]

Another vote for SLE

[Sol]

for famouses is better to use nonverbal method. then those who see T in this hysteriod may change the opinion

[Jarno]

SLE - SxSo

[Djangr]

LSE

[on a peaceful hiatus]

hmm, maybe he is an IEI-D after all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnrMpKqZtD0

an introverted narcissist. playing roles and enjoying public attention.

[SabrinaPalmer]

It's interesting to see how different perspectives emerge when discussing public figures. The diversity of opinions keeps these conversations engaging. Your take on the former president's personality type is quite intriguing. It's always fascinating how individuals perceive and categorize personalities.
Speaking of conversations, have you explored the concept of a social network for politics? Platforms like this aim to provide a space where people can engage in meaningful political discussions. It's a way to connect with others who share similar interests and engage in constructive dialogues about the political landscape.

[Sol]

Have noticed another ENFJ opinion from Velta Mikelsone. For local noobs this mb relatively important, as she published a book and did a lecture near Gulenko.

[SacredKnowing]

Your manager sounds like a true NPD, narcissistic personality disorder.

Same as Trump. It can be speculated what causes it, but in the end the effects are all the same: a ego complex that is overblown internally and damages external people around them.

Trump is malignant narcissist. It's literally a brain disorder. This isn't being hyperbolic. That means he could be "some" good, but also much bad.

Malignant narcissists aren't self-aware about what they're doing. Also narcissists do as they're told and DJT is famous for never doing as he's told. This example from T.V. provides a better characterization of DJT's motives:

"I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. And I was really - I was alive." - Walter White, Breaking Bad

If you want a true example of a malignant narcissist from T.V., look at Justin Berfield's character Reese from Malcolm in the Middle. That episode where he went to the army/boot camp and said "I like it here because I do as I'm told" (Episode 22, Season 5 I think) was the screenwriters charitably informing the viewer of his true type.

Another example of a narcissist movie is The Princess Diaries (2001) which involves the protagonist being a princess (simply because that is what she is told to be), being in an enviable position, and following scripts. But the sequel The Princess Diaries 2: Royal Engagement (2004) is kind of like a Jane Austen novel.

[Not A Communist Shill]

I'm not a qualified psychologist, just an amateur hater of Socionics, and according to the psychologist code of conduct only those who are treating the patient can make an assessment (and privately I guess) which rather counters what I say here: but from what I recall and gather from various psychologists reports, Trump likely has both narcissism, and psychopathy, as well as Machiavellianism (the Dark Triad). I could find the papers on GoogleScholar again if people are really interested. There is of course the possibility the assessments are done by people with a bias against Trump, and they're also people who have probably not assessed him in person.

[Sol]

just an amateur hater of Socionics

You are just incompetent Jung typology user. As the majority who read Socionics texts.
This is the reason of your and others dissatisfaction by it, because of your mistakes.

As in the example of Trump, to be rough dumb hysteroid and to have T or Fi is matched for the most of noobs. 90% of brainless votes. Then alikes whine about the typology as not working.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

You are just incompetent Jung typology user. As the majority who read Socionics texts.
This is the reason of your and others dissatisfaction by it, because of your mistakes.

As in the example of Trump, to be rough dumb hysteroid and to have T or Fi is matched for the most of noobs. 90% of brainless votes. Then alikes whine about the typology as not working.

Dude you spend your time watching ASMR videos of women trying on random clothes and you type yourself LSE while watching esoteric tarot card reading session. You are the one who has no clue what he is doing

[Not A Communist Shill]

You are just incompetent Jung typology user. As the majority who read Socionics texts.
This is the reason of your and others dissatisfaction by it, because of your mistakes.

As in the example of Trump, to be rough dumb hysteroid and to have T or Fi is matched for the most of noobs. 90% of brainless votes. Then alikes whine about the typology as not working.

There's no scientific evidence for Jung's typology, so I don't think I can be called incompetent. I suspect I could be competent in a pseudoscience through consistency though.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

There's no scientific evidence for Jung's typology, so I don't think I can be called incompetent. I suspect I could be competent in a pseudoscience through consistency though.

what does make trump really extroverted outside of being loud on stage? haven't heard all that much from him. he might spend all of his time in his tower browsing his social network like an introvert.