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Thread: The death of a lead function

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    Default RIP

    -
    Last edited by Reyne; 04-03-2020 at 06:07 PM.

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    How did it die? Lead poisoning.

    But seriously, you're not talking about Ne-Te, you're talking about Ni-Te. An ISTp repressing their Si is quite literally acting like an INTp in socionics. You experienced being INTp.

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    Um...ahhhh some stuff that SLI do is kinda subconscious or unaware to them so NO. My answer is no to you
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    The role function isn't really present in us. The balance between lead function and DS leads us to act in a certain manner similar to the function the role represents. But if a functions is blocked, what emerges is the polar opposite, and Si is balanced by inferior Ne. Socionics is based on Jung's thought, let's keep it in mind. If your lead function becomes weak and unconscious what emerges is the inferior/DS.
    Get serious.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    Could you expand on that?
    I have a question
    Do you fall into routine?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Sorry, I thought I might've been talking to a serious person.

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    you can shut down and not do things but I'm pretty certain that to dedicate your psyche to extreme E/I is not very healthy and goes agains nature.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    no, but Jung describes Origen and Tertullian in his Psychological Types. Tertullian is an example of Introverted Thinking, coupled with Sensing, and Origen is an example of Extroverted Sensing, coupled with Feeling. what these two christian scholars did was to sacrifice, each of them, their strongest functions, in order to reach a life with God. so Tertullian practises the "sacrificium intellectum", and realizes that it's his irrational side to give him faith. while Origen practices a literal self mutilation (he evirates himself), and realizes that it's the intellect that gives him faith.

    in the end, he says, you could have said that Tertullian was a feeler and Origen an intellectual, for what they've sacrificed opened the doors to a new life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    A routine of laziness and spastically seeking out novel opportunities for change while busy in other stuff cause reality bores me? Yes.
    So you don't understand the motivations of your own actions ?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    no, but Jung describes Origen and Tertullian in his Psychological Types. Tertullian is an example of Introverted Thinking, coupled with Sensing, and Origen is an example of Extroverted Sensing, coupled with Feeling. what these two christian scholars did was to sacrifice, each of them, their strongest functions, in order to reach a life with God. so Tertullian practices the "sacrificium intellectum", and realizes that it's his irrational side to give him faith. while Origen practices a literal self mutilation (he evirates himself), and realizes that it's the intellect that gives him faith.

    in the end, he says, you could have said that Tertullian was a feeler and Origen an intellectual, for what they've sacrificed opened the doors to a new life.
    That just hurt my brain.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    lol...

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    yeah, when I read the title of your thread I thought of that chapter, too

    (but keep in mind, he keeps labeling them as Tert: Ti+Se and Origen: Se + Fi... it's how they come out that contrasts with their essence)

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    interesting thread

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    This thread is absolutely pointless. Just a person who's proud they ever read a book posing as if making a question to attract fans.
    This thread is the equivalent of an idiot walking to a medical conference siting Aristotle 'because all western science is based on Aristotle'.
    I apologise for taking part in this utter fiasco.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    How did it die? Lead poisoning.

    But seriously, you're not talking about Ne-Te, you're talking about Ni-Te. An ISTp repressing their Si is quite literally acting like an INTp in socionics. You experienced being INTp.
    I've been telling him the same thing from the scratch, lulz... oh well, we have to accept we might just be wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilex View Post
    This thread is absolutely pointless. Just a person who's proud they ever read a book posing as if making a question to attract fans.
    This thread is the equivalent of an idiot walking to a medical conference siting Aristotle 'because all western science is based on Aristotle'.
    I apologise for taking part in this utter fiasco.
    Are you aware of what site you are posting on?

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    it's possibly to mistype yourself

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    @Reyne

    idk, something about the way you look is really interesting to me. Hard to put my finger on it. It's not really a lusty/pervy look or anything. Your face just looks like it's always in a deep, perpetual state of searching and it kind of sucks you (or at least... me) in. I probably simplify things much more than you do for my own sanity.

    If I were you , I'd camp up the broody repressed in turmoil str8 guy thing. It's kind of you? But then there's this good heartedness/middle class humanitarian kindness you have that is pulling you away from going too deep into the abyss with that. Haha it's kinda fun.

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    For what it's worth, I feel that my early environment caused me to repress my Ne, and I acted in quite an SLI-ish way. But that wasn't healthy for me, and since I've left my family's house, I've been returning to what I feel is my 'natural' personality.

    Disregard those writing your experience off. Socionics, as all typology systems are, is unverifiable, and is at best only accurate of generalities. Furthermore, 99% of Socionics is pick-and-choose; like the early Christian scriptures, people just pick Socionikist writers they like and discard those they don't -- favoring a particular Socionikist while discarding Jung, the basis of Socionics, is all well and fine for them, but completely ridiculous to expect of others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    no, but Jung describes Origen and Tertullian in his Psychological Types. Tertullian is an example of Introverted Thinking, coupled with Sensing, and Origen is an example of Extroverted Sensing, coupled with Feeling. what these two christian scholars did was to sacrifice, each of them, their strongest functions, in order to reach a life with God. so Tertullian practises the "sacrificium intellectum", and realizes that it's his irrational side to give him faith. while Origen practices a literal self mutilation (he evirates himself), and realizes that it's the intellect that gives him faith.

    in the end, he says, you could have said that Tertullian was a feeler and Origen an intellectual, for what they've sacrificed opened the doors to a new life.
    I like this. This is also something that Socionics tells us, is it not? Straying from what is percieved as ones ''original nature'' is not in itself bad, because it was in your nature to seek out that alien way of thinking - and this is what you think is right, most importantly. Besides the fact that Socionics is categorical and general, with no claim to the reality of things, there is also the situation that many of us do not necessarily conform to the descriptions, in part at least.

    For example @Reyne, i think i am SLI, but my beings centre has always been in conceptuality and the 'unseen' so to speak. I am, by nature or by will (who knows), bound to this aspect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    I like this. This is also something that Socionics tells us, is it not? Straying from what is percieved as ones ''original nature'' is not in itself bad, because it was in your nature to seek out that alien way of thinking - and this is what you think is right, most importantly. Besides the fact that Socionics is categorical and general, with no claim to the reality of things, there is also the situation that many of us do not necessarily conform to the descriptions, in part at least.

    For example @Reyne, i think i am SLI, but my beings centre has always been in conceptuality and the 'unseen' so to speak. I am, by nature or by will (who knows), bound to this aspect.
    This is a SLI description + / - (this part is the +) from socionics.com:

    "The strongest element of your personality is an inexhaustible curiosity towards the phenomena of the surrounding world. You are interested in adventure, tourism, the juxtaposition of cultures and the study of nature and architecture."

    So what you say about yourself is perfectly compatible with SLI as a type. I do not understand what people on this website expect from a Si dominant.

    Source:

    http://www.socionics.com/advan/prof/istp.htm
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    This is a SLI description + / - (this part is the +) from socionics.com:

    "The strongest element of your personality is an inexhaustible curiosity towards the phenomena of the surrounding world. You are interested in adventure, tourism, the juxtaposition of cultures and the study of nature and architecture."

    So what you say about yourself is perfectly compatible with SLI as a type. I do not understand what people on this website expect from a Si dominant.

    Source:

    http://www.socionics.com/advan/prof/istp.htm
    Interesting. I had not noted this source before. Although, the text still states that the surrounding world, adventure, comfort, aesthetics, material profit is essential to the type, which is not necessarily what i would attribute to my particular way of existing in the world - and with your reference to the compatibility to my self-description: there wasn't much to go by in the quoted post, no? Unless, of course, you're referring to other posts made by me, in which case i would be interested to hear some specific examples. Thank you for the source, it is quite interesting.

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    @para, I'm not sure socionics suggests to "get out of your comfort base function", but I think that should be the aim of any self betterment system... or it would be good if the system were not used only as an excuse to justify one's worse quirks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    @para, I'm not sure socionics suggests to "get out of your comfort base function", but I think that should be the aim of any self betterment system... or it would be good if the system were not used only as an excuse to justify one's worse quirks.
    I used ''tells us'' in a weird way, lol - i meant that it has the ability to imbue us with a willingness to see ourselves more. That should, as you said, be the aim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    Interesting. I had not noted this source before. Although, the text still states that the surrounding world, adventure, comfort, aesthetics, material profit is essential to the type, which is not necessarily what i would attribute to my particular way of existing in the world - and with your reference to the compatibility to my self-description: there wasn't much to go by in the quoted post, no? Unless, of course, you're referring to other posts made by me, in which case i would be interested to hear some specific examples. Thank you for the source, it is quite interesting.
    Yea. Anyway if you see SLI as your type it would be cool. It is kind of hard to judge via internet especially if you have some sort of vision problems. I happen to know one SLI who is bit like you in terms of vision and he still enjoys nature and hunting etc.

    it was kind of cool to see that you liked to visit in a place that was green (Finland) and stuff. Which really sounds like something I wouldn't really think about it myself. I just though it can look cool and he does not quite get why I like science so much but he is OK with it.

    Anyway, how do you react when people start to bombard new perspectives/ideas at you? [I know that SLI usually looks bit stiff with their Fe.]
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    One can only use one's type to modify one's visible behaviour so as to mimic a desired behaviour - but this wouldn't make for happy times. I would estimate that many closeted LBTQ could relate stories. I have known more than a few SLI who have said that they felt that they had to closet themselves to hide their true natures. For some, this was wise tactic but often this feeling seemed due to paranoia more than actuality.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    What a load of bs. You know what u are? Fi lead cuz this whole post reeks of pretentious bullshit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    Yea. Anyway if you see SLI as your type it would be cool. It is kind of hard to judge via internet especially if you have some sort of vision problems. I happen to know one SLI who is bit like you in terms of vision and he still enjoys nature and hunting etc.

    it was kind of cool to see that you liked to visit in a place that was green (Finland) and stuff. Which really sounds like something I wouldn't really think about it myself. I just though it can look cool and he does not quite get why I like science so much but he is OK with it.

    Anyway, how do you react when people start to bombard new perspectives/ideas at you? [I know that SLI usually looks bit stiff with their Fe.]
    It was mainly my mother who helped me appreciate nature more. I do not get out in nature that often, but i really like it when i do - i often forget the importance of such activities and withdraw to safer pastures. I probably would not have come to like nature myself without external input.

    As for the new perspectives/ideas thing - i tend to appreciate these things if they bear a rational or conceptual fundament, if there is a train of thought that connects these. I am adept at spotting it or the lack of it. I am annoyed if it is random 'for the sake of it', since i find those mental endeavors meaningless, unless of course the study of that randomness is the goal (and i think it is worth ones time to learn to see value in most things, even though i lack that ability). My blindside is more on the ethical side of the alternatives, so an ethical alternative or another way of handling things in that region i can both be dismissive of and be grateful for. In conversation revolving around the discussion of such ideas and alternatives i tend to look for the most plausible and 'connected' idea, and i am good at sorting out these things. (4D Ti maybe?)
    I do not feel i have a grounding presence in the sensory way. (calming down others physically and making them aware of that side)
    I am still unsure if i am ILI or SLI, but i will say that most of my activities, thoughts and appearances to others have reflected the ILI type more. Also i pay very little attention to 'typical' Si things, such as appearance, aesthetic, cleanliness, physical harmony, health, almost to the point of not even being valued maybe. I really do not notice myself 'forecasting' or 'feeling out' sensations excessively - but i think i am Ip type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    I'm quite confident about the fact that I repressed my lead function during the years in order to numb my pain. Do you think it's possible for a SLI to chronically become some kind of NeTe?
    What I was trying to say is that numbing your pain as you describe it is Fi in the subconscious and largely why they are unaware of what happened to them and what they do to others.

    Try doing only NeTe and get back to me on that. I want to see if your head blows up or not
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    It was mainly my mother who helped me appreciate nature more. I do not get out in nature that often, but i really like it when i do - i often forget the importance of such activities and withdraw to safer pastures. I probably would not have come to like nature myself without external input.

    As for the new perspectives/ideas thing - i tend to appreciate these things if they bear a rational or conceptual fundament, if there is a train of thought that connects these. I am adept at spotting it or the lack of it. I am annoyed if it is random 'for the sake of it', since i find those mental endeavors meaningless, unless of course the study of that randomness is the goal (and i think it is worth ones time to learn to see value in most things, even though i lack that ability). My blindside is more on the ethical side of the alternatives, so an ethical alternative or another way of handling things in that region i can both be dismissive of and be grateful for. In conversation revolving around the discussion of such ideas and alternatives i tend to look for the most plausible and 'connected' idea, and i am good at sorting out these things. (4D Ti maybe?)
    I do not feel i have a grounding presence in the sensory way. (calming down others physically and making them aware of that side)
    I am still unsure if i am ILI or SLI, but i will say that most of my activities, thoughts and appearances to others have reflected the ILI type more. Also i pay very little attention to 'typical' Si things, such as appearance, aesthetic, cleanliness, physical harmony, health, almost to the point of not even being valued maybe. I really do not notice myself 'forecasting' or 'feeling out' sensations excessively - but i think i am Ip type.
    Hej,

    1.) In my (arguably) humble opinion, I think that you are an IEI-Ni with an accentuated logical component (inert subtype), a Ni/Ti [NT appearing] double introvert (because you do come off rather withdrawn energetically, deeply so, and typical of Ti (especially when reinforced by strong Ni), your face manifests a sort of “flat effect”)--I know this because I watched the video you posted a while back in the member typing thread but was too busy to volunteer my 4 cents, at the time. Also, as a IEI-Ni, your Fe and Ti would have a similar strength/dimensionality, which is why "ethical alternatives" may not necessarily "win out" in your perspectives and decision making.

    I've yet to really see you articulate anything remotely resembling Te, which discounts ILI, but I do see lots of vague, somewhat nebulous Ni and hidden agenda Ti, garnished with a dash of Fe, which gives you a "soft (not to be interpreted pejoratively as a slur),” genteel, almost Aristocratic quality atypical of ILIs and Gamma quadra, in general. I’d say you manifest a much higher, more consistent regard for Fe “niceties” than any other high Te/Ti user here. Lol In the member typing thread, there were folks arguing back and forth and you interjected with something along the lines of "what a lovely bunch [lol]" and that struck me as very IEI-Ni > making a seemingly non abrasive, Fe intervention that "breaks up the (funky) mood" and indirectly communicates a certain "judgment" without necessarily coming off "judgmental," preachy and annoying af.

    2.) It's key to note that both Ni and Ti are concerned with systems that place a great deal of importance on "truth."

    a.] Ni is ever ridding itself of biases in its pursuit of truth and discarding what isn't fundamental/necessary, in order to arrive at the purest essence of something, in its most ideal form, most usually as some sort of universal, interlocking archetype(s); In IEIs, Ni's "findings" are supported and structured by the ontological Ti “why” seeking consistency. Moreover, these endeavors usually take on a human focus, as opposed to more impersonal matters.

    b.] Lead/High D/Strong Ti strives for precision of thought as it pertains to what is true or false, and a consonance to logical principles via rigorous self-assessing to the point of "certainty", thereby developing a subjective model of the world and how things work with high internal fidelity--of note, this is an end to itself, as opposed to tertiary/mobilizing/lower D Ti in IEIs that functions as a means to an (Ni) end.

    I think it's pretty clear that you lead with Ni, but I certainly see more Hidden agenda Ti than I do Te, which would suggest IEI.

    3.) I also think that you may be an HSP, which can often lead an INXp with strong Si-role to mistake him/herself for an ISXp; Both parties can be open to new and untried bodily sensations and experiences but whereas an ISXp would approach this with longings and cravings, an INXp would be driven by an underlying fear and anxiety to overcome, in order to no longer have to consider it, thereby becoming "free" to explore the abstract and live unattached to the body and its irritating (read: limiting) "material" concerns.
    Last edited by Alonzo; 04-23-2019 at 09:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    It's funny cause everytime someone talks about theoretical stuff you get upset and try acting cool.
    What the hell happened to you? I remember your presentation and your type me video. You were a normal person. You had psychological depth and a good mind. You were NOT the "yoyo i dont give a **** about anything ahahahaha dafuq u talkin about" kind of person. Seriously, you're acting like some kind of meme nowadays. This whole aggressive mask is lame. Being Se lead doesn't mean constantly blasting your anger and frustration on other people. There's plenty of normal acting Se leads. You simply lack respect, you lack the ability (or will?) to use reason and you're taking advantage of both the virtual immunity internet gives and the fact that there's no authority around in here. Go around like this in real life and you'll get your face smashed or at least kicked out.
    relax ESI boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    Fi lead is possible, but in that case I would be EII. I'm a delta introvert, so if it's not EII it's SLI.
    nah im not seeing any Ne

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    @Alonzo
    Hej.

    Thank you for the considerate and weighty response, i really appreciate it.

    I've yet to really see you articulate anything remotely resembling Te, which discounts ILI, but I do see lots of vague, somewhat nebulous Ni and hidden agenda Ti, garnished with a dash of Fe, which gives you a "soft (not to be interpreted pejoratively as a slur),” genteel, almost Aristocratic quality atypical of ILIs and Gamma quadra, in general. I’d say you manifest a much higher, more consistent regard for Fe “niceties” than any other high Te/Ti user here. Lol In the member typing thread, there were folks arguing back and forth and you interjected with something along the lines of "what a lovely bunch [lol]" and that struck me as very IEI-Ni > making a seemingly non abrasive, Fe intervention that "breaks up the (funky) mood" and indirectly communicates a certain "judgment" without necessarily coming off "judgmental," preachy and annoying af.

    This is an interesting observation, as most of my thoughts form themselves 'poetically' and with rhythm and life, as if they've already chosen themselves to 'seen' by me. I believe that there is an immediate reaction and fascination with the external form of the thoughts that they, in turn, accommodate to. Trying to see the world for what it is - a play, and that my observation of this is acting as well. So, to concretize, Fe might be apparent in this aspect of my thinking.

    Regarding my remark in the thread, i think that you cast light on something central - the remark was more the finger pointing at the moon, than a direct attempt to 'steer' or control. (Fe?)

    your face manifests a sort of “flat effect”
    I am not very appearance-focused (at least not physically), so this interests me greatly. What exactly do you mean, and can you elaborate on how this affected your perception of my type? I have been V.I.ed before, and people usually land around introverted logical type territory.

    With regards to your HSP comments, that is considerable. Also, the part about freeing oneself from the limiting concerns of the flesh applies to a reasonable degree - thinking of the sleeplessness to pursue more pressing mental endeavors, or the worry that the lack of physical sustenance will disturb my thoughts, rather than seeing it as worth pursuing by its own merits. (this is not to say that i lack the ability to relish in the phyiscal - for example, cravings for sweets are common to me.)
    Also, i do not care for physical labour, in that it demands attention away from my usual 'space', and can even be a source of unpleasantness. (a way of thinking i do not normally associate with the mindset of Si leads, for whom the health and examination of the body is life itself)

    A last question (as much of what you write is agreeable and worth looking at): Where do you see *lots* of Ni? I am interested in this distinction of Ip elements, so please indulge me. Why IEI>SEI?

    In any case, thank you for the thoughts and reflections, they will not go ignored.

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    The infamous IEI that's good at Ti lol

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    @ouronis
    I think that the theory only makes sense if one sees the two rational spectrums as being formed by the irrational: iow, S/N is used in the creation of T/F schematics. But, i think that the common understanding of Ti, regardless of the sanity of the theory, is that it is intimately bound to intuition or abstractions. This, of course, is true by the definition of the element, but the term ''abstraction'' isn't viewed here in an abstract fashion (as being all conceptualisation) - it is seen as a very specific mode of thought (intuiting and imagination). So, instead of seeing the abstraction of Ti as something common to all T types (conceptualisation and understanding of ''objective'' properties and their relations), it is seen more as common to all N types, as it is linked with this specific mode of thinking that lies with Socionics ''intuition''. Ti is, when spoken of commonly here, seen as an intuitive element, going hand in hand with N. Theoretically, this is not the case, as Ti is ''category'', which is abstraction, yes, but are not necessarily interacted with through imaginary means. This is why i think IEI usually is represented with high Ti, because it seen more as a component of N than a separate element.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    The infamous IEI that's good at Ti lol
    Who needs duals anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    The infamous IEI that's good at Ti lol
    People have been conflating Ti and Ni on this forum since the beginning. It is like a ball of yarn that could be untangled if someone was inclined to do it. Maybe someone more motivated than me will do it. It will probably be an INTx. Some people also underestimate the intelligence of IEI and overestimate the intelligence of any "T" type, which works out well for IEI.

    I don't know Para's type but he reminds me of Quicktwist who was also typed ILI, SLI, LII and IEI. I vaguely remember him being typed EII and ESI too. In my mind they could be the same person even though I have seen videos of both and know they are not. I believe QT considered the same types Para has, except for EII (don't remember him considering that one). He was also polite and intelligent. I liked him. Maybe he will return someday.

    Edit: I was wrong. He did consider them seriously. I believe when he left he may have been undecided still.

    I have kinda sorta settled on ESI for now.

    Thanks everybody for your insights and especially those who gave links. I di find the Wiki at the top of the page so I have been looking at it a bit at a time.

    Another type I am possible considering is INFj. If anyone has any insight on this I would be glad to hear them.

    Thanks everyone,

    QT
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-25-2019 at 06:09 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    People have been conflating Ti and Ni on this forum since the beginning. It is like a ball of yarn that could be untangled if someone was inclined to do it. Maybe someone more motivated than me will do it. It will probably be an INTx. Some people also underestimate the intelligence of IEI and overestimate the intelligence of any "T" type, which works out well for IEI.

    I don't know Para's type but he reminds me of Quicktwist who was also typed ILI, SLI, LII and IEI. I vaguely remember him being typed EII and ESI too. In my mind they could be the same person even though I have seen videos of both and know they are not. I believe QT considered the same types Para has, except for EII (don't remember him considering that one). He was also polite and intelligent. I liked him. Maybe he will return someday.

    Edit: I was wrong. He did consider them seriously. I believe when he left he may have been undecided still.
    Makes me think of someone who told me Ni is basicaly understood as "intuition Ti" lol. I found it fitting.
    I remember warching a video about how people who truly have Ni as a function simply can't put it in words, it's more about a very abstract experience of life. The best description I found was "Ni is what is left when you take away all other functions" though I guess that's a negativist way of seeing things. I wrote this else where, and I know it can be said of all functions, but the others are better described by what they are. I could use all the words in the world to describe it and it wouldn't be succesful, a silence would be more meaningful, but people who desire a worded explaination wouldn't appreciate, so eh.
    I don't believe an INTx would put decent words on Ni, INTj because they do not value it and INTp because they value it...
    I think Ni is too personal to be properly put down on paper. Also, I read that Ni egos tend to think others who self-type as Ni ego are just plain wrong because the experiences of Ni don't match, and I can see it, beside Adam Strange who types everyone IEI.
    To explain Ni tonight I'll use one word: tree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    Regarding my remark in the thread, i think that you cast light on something central - the remark was more the finger pointing at the moon, than a direct attempt to 'steer' or control. (Fe?)
    Even still, the manner in which you pointed "at the moon (tangentially, you often speak in metaphors, which reeks of high intuition)" encompassed an Fe approach--for starters, the creative function is the primary mode of implementation for the base/lead function and introverts use this to create a product effective/worthy/enticing/interesting enough to establish social contact. IEIs, unlike SLIs and ILIs (who are Fe PoLR), for example, would not use dry Te "business talk" to illicit a reaction/impart a sentiment; instead, they'd likely opt for a more tactful, faint, cunning "hint" or suggestion, similarly to what you did. I've heard IEIs say that the reflex to do that manifests as just that, an instantaneous reflex, even if it's a "conscious" process. Had I decided to "point at the moon," it would've most likely been far more harsh/scathing, even if not my active intention to be so.

    Moreover, in this way, Fe is used to create/evoke the “appropriate” emotional response in others, to some end. And like many a IEI, you do this effortlessly, whether realized or not. We are having this conversation because of it. lol I find your forum presence to be rather polite, gracious, unassuming and overall, pleasant. See the evidence below:

    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    Thank you for the considerate and weighty response, i really appreciate it.
    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    In any case, thank you for the thoughts and reflections, they will not go ignored.
    And that’s all within the same post. Find a ILI/LII/SLI on here who does that. Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    This may be impolite, but...
    Do you have an opinion on my type, @Kill4Me?
    Only a monster would deny you. lol And either ironic or smart that you’re contemplating your politeness to someone named “Kill4Me.” lol The above may not seem so noteworthy, but such a manner positively predisposes others towards you. You seem so meek and earnest in your quest for self discovery, that I volunteered any wherewithal I might possess to possibly be of some aid. Fe users have a way of getting what they want–that’s part of their “superpower.”

    Moreover, I went to your original typing thread (and the pleasantries were overflowing–and whereas it seems that you are English [correct me if I’m wrong], and, subsequently, culturally inclined towards such courtesies, the IEI does this effortlessly) and incidentally stumbled upon the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    fwiw, i'm not very 'science-method' oriented, i have trouble following large diagrams or statistics, but i am very good at verbal, interpretive reasoning, like reading poetry or other kinds of literature, where you tend to be more imaginative in the solving of problems, and less systematic and controlled.
    FWIW, this right here signifies Te-PoLR, which would again dismiss ILI and SLI.

    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    I am not very appearance-focused (at least not physically), so this interests me greatly. What exactly do you mean, and can you elaborate on how this affected your perception of my type? I have been V.I.ed before, and people usually land around introverted logical type territory.
    1.) Colloquially, flat/diminished/reduced affect is when someone doesn’t show as many outward signs of emotion (particularly as it pertains to facial mobility) as they are expected to. In psychology, the word “affect” refers to someone’s variability in facial expression, pitch of voice, and the use of hand and body movements; a person’s affect can be “broad” (which is the norm), “restricted” or “blunted” (which both mean pared back in some way) or “flat”: lacking signs of affective expression, or having a monotonous voice and unmoving face. Displaying a flattened affect, within the confines of my familiarity, is particularly common in those along the autism spectrum (though it’s also a symptom in other conditions like depression, etc...). It doesn’t mean that they aren’t reacting emotionally to what is happening around them—it just means that their feelings are not being displayed outwardly, as much, if at all.

    2.) From a Socionics/typological perspective, in the LII with lead Ti, for example, Filatova notes “in the face of LII, there is an inner concentration, a desire to understand and analyze what is happening, to give him our assessment...always a cold expression on his face, on which one rarely sees any emotions.” According to Gulenko, “the expression on his face at a distance is always perceived as completely unemotional, even grim and gloomy.” It’s as if the face directly reflects the detached nature of Ti from the outside world, as it turns inwardly in order to dispassionately (though rigorously) conjure precise and concise logical formations.

    Moreover, Ni, in and of itself, is often described as detaching oneself from space and time (as its users become immersed into the symbolic and archetypal) which usually manifests in the eyes/gaze–therefore, in conjunction with accentuated Ti, it’s easy to conceive of a seemingly cold, impassive face akin to some impenetrable wall.

    3.) As a bit of an afterthought, this flattened affect is also frequently observed in high/strong Fi users–and as a IEI-Ni, your Fi would have even greater dimensionality than both your Fe & Ti. So with conscious Ni + Fi & Ti subconsciously churning powerfully in the background, that should certainly create an affect that minimizes facial mobility and emotional expressiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    A last question (as much of what you write is agreeable and worth looking at): Where do you see *lots* of Ni? I am interested in this distinction of Ip elements, so please indulge me. Why IEI>SEI?
    Si leads can be washed away by vast waves of stored sensorial impressions of past experiences, facts, and details that they passively endure, OR, can deliberately recall with alarming specificity; they experience memories and all attached sensations to these experiences in “high definition”–this is their “zen,” (sensationally and experientially) reliving the past in rich, luxurious detail, as if finely preserved. It’s what they draw upon to create and recreate in the exterior world, with Fe or Te.

    Si relays information whereas Ni synthesizes it–which is why our memories are generally not as “fidelitous” to the full, complete picture as theirs are; we usually remember overall impressions of events and may fill in the blanks with archetypal symbols that fit, but not precisely, or weave seemingly disparate, pre-existing bits of information (images, theories, visions, perspectives, metaphors, dreams, patterns) to conjure something altogether new, a comprehensive, holistic “take” with an orientation towards the future. Si users can seem more traditional/conservative in their approach towards life because they are cognitively/emotionally/spiritually anchored to deeply entrenched, past experiences/impressions/sensations. Si internalizes and categorizes actual reality; Ni internalizes and systematizes the abstract; both of them are ever subjectively filtering and funneling in order to make sense of things and find "clarity." Look no further than your response to me, to see where you are utilizing Ni:

    This is an interesting observation, as most of my thoughts form themselves 'poetically' and with rhythm and life, as if they've already chosen themselves to 'seen' by me. I believe that there is an immediate reaction and fascination with the external form of the thoughts that they, in turn, accommodate to. Trying to see the world for what it is - a play, and that my observation of this is acting as well. So, to concretize, Fe might be apparent in this aspect of my thinking.
    IEIs often unpack and serve their Ni "fruits," insights and visions with a Fe-oriented metaphorical or narrative approach, using analogies, and word pictures. This can oftentimes be a long and laborious process to imbue the right notes, tones and flavors but the resulting "sweetness" is often worth it (see, I do it too, just not as well as you do lol). You, like many a IEI, have a rather "poetic" and philosophical bent. It's quite refreshing, even if hard to follow, at times. And I just had to go a few posts into your history to find "lots" of it...

    re: the meaning of your screen name...

    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    Cross-thoughts, inexplicability, confusion - what has led me and everyone else everywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    To exist is to lose control.
    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    Try to think about the inevitability of it all, and find yourself at peace with the stream - easier said than done, of course. Isn't this what we talk about when we use the term 'wisdom'? To relax, to be at peace?
    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    I think that here, the focus is not on the strictly sexual, but that the sexual is seen as symbolic of that relational union. To many people, it is a breaking of that union physically, and this points toward a 'larger' split, so to speak. I agree that the focus on the sexual is trivial, on the grounds that it is the purely sexual that matters, but i think it is important to recognize that it, to many people, is that the sexual union points toward something larger, which is connected to this 'not just' in the relationship.

    This is just my guess at the morbidity that is seen here.
    re: your death (forgive the morose phrasing lol)

    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    When the time is right.
    And I’m including this because you illustrate well how IEIs use their Fe in establishing relations with others, and interestingly enough, showcase a key "draw" in the dynamic between IEIs their SLE duals as it concerns "aggressors/victims" engagement style:

    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    I tend to make myself seem approachable, like playing a game. I do not naturally approach others, but like others to take contact to me. If i'm interested in a person, i will intentionally make myself more open to being approached, by doing certain (subdued) things that makes me more likely to enter their attention. But normally, i am content with just regarding them from a distance, imagining more contact to be established. I like when people are ''on the hook'', so to speak, and attach themselves to what i wanted them to see. I think there will always be a bit of manipulation in contact with others.

    I like when people directly establish contact, and aren't flighty about it. I can be confused with inconstant flirting, or moving towards and then away in contact. I need it to be more direct. I don't react well to people establishing contact in small talk, though jokes and sharing thoughts are ok.

    I actually have a good example of how i like contact to be established: a SLE girl in my class often gestures openly for me to work with her on projects, without hesitation or ''signs''. It is open, direct and liberating to see it for what it is - she finds me useful and worth working with on some things, and she shows this directly. To not have to read into things that are often trivial to oneself is very, very liberating. On the contrary, the EII girl wants to work with me too, but she shows this by expecting me to approach, which i am not suited to do. We do not establish working relations, as we cannot initiate that contact between us - we both refuse to be the mover. Someone taking control of that situation (which i do not seek to take control of) is very helpful and admirable.
    After going through you your post history, I don't see how you could NOT be a IEI. Think it over. Solely from what you've revealed of yourself on the forum, I think it suits you well.
    Last edited by Alonzo; 04-26-2019 at 09:33 AM.

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