Joseph Paul Goebbels

[CuriousSoul]

I do not currently believe I know his type. The Reinin dichotomies would seem to exclude ISFJ.


Wikiquote




interview -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LLos4IE5Fc

[Capitalist Pig]

Goddamn he annoys the fuck out of me.

Edit: After watching this video, Eva Braun still strikes me as ISFp as I had guessed from Der Untergang.

[Joy]

Is she the one in the red hat? If so... yeah... that's about as ISFp as they come.

[Capitalist Pig]

Is she the one in the red hat?

Yep! Her red hair is a dead giveaway in color media. This is a photograph of her and ******, in the same outfit minus the hat:

[Expat]

I agree about Eva Braun; if you watch more of such movies - there are still some - the ISFp impression is confirmed.

As for Goebbels being ISFj, especially from those few seconds *shrugs* perhaps.

[FDG]

Maybe, but it's really incoclusive.

[Gronau]

I have typed him as an INFj, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Expat]

Well, one thing in favor of his being IJ at least is the diary-writing -- that is perhaps a bit stereotypical but it seems to me that systematically, daily, writing a diary is more likely to be observed in IXXjs, and in ISTjs and ISFjs in particular.

[CuriousSoul]

I think these actually were "bullshit typings".

[FDG]

Curioussoul, cut the bullshit. All your typings are far fetched at best, and the fact that you have Dioklecian as grandmaster speaks for itslef

[Rick]

I do see the similarity in Goebbel's and Churchill's expressions in those two pictures, but does this similarity exist across other pictures as well? Here is a video with lots of pictures of Churchill and his famous WWII speech ("we will fight them on the beaches") where the similarity is gone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=belzgoxfayo

[Dioklecian]

Curioussoul, cut the bullshit. All your typings are far fetched at best, and the fact that you have Dioklecian as grandmaster speaks for itslef

Only ESTps have grandmasters

Usually their wives

[Dioklecian]

ISFJ seems accurate to me. Strangely enough, the alternative could be ENTP.

***EDIT***
I do not currently believe I know his type.
The Reinin dichotomies would seem to exclude ISFJ.
***END EDIT***

Just watch this video:
****** with his friends on vacation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHzN6KmlIOE

Watch the seconds: 00:24 to 00:27
and especially a moment later 00:40 to 00:44
first at normal speed and then slowly screenshot by screenshot, maybe they remind you of someone.

[Dioklecian]

Sophie Scholl

Once I did push up in front of dozens of people to win the affection of a gilr just like her, it was my first week in uni

[CuriousSoul]

Curioussoul, cut the bullshit. All your typings are far fetched at best, and the fact that you have Dioklecian as grandmaster speaks for itslef

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt
Bertrand Russell

I did not initially deem this comment worthy of a reply, but perhaps a few things need to be said. Typing is a process - and as you may have noticed my typing is a very slow and convoluted process indeed. :wink:

What I write on the forum presents my best informed guess at that moment - more often than not it is an semi-educated guess deeply rooted in my subjective understanding of socionics and human beings in general - but a guess nonetheless.

I do not consider Dioklecian my "grandmaster". I have commented positively on his typing skills on the forum since he does not seem to have received the recognition his efforts merit, IMHO. I have disagreed with him on many occasions - furthermore my atheistic world view may make deeper level of understanding with him virtually impossible, but that is perhaps beside the point...

[FDG]

Curioussoul, cut the bullshit. All your typings are far fetched at best, and the fact that you have Dioklecian as grandmaster speaks for itslef

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt
Bertrand Russell

I did not initially deem this comment worthy of a reply, but perhaps a few things need to be said. Typing is a process - and as you may have noticed my typing is a very slow and convoluted process indeed. :wink:

What I write on the forum presents my best informed guess at that moment - more often than not it is an semi-educated guess deeply rooted in my subjective understanding of socionics and humang beings in general - but a guess nonetheless.

I don't understand how a given thought process can go both ways so easily. If a person is typed a certain way due to a given reasoning, then given the same evidence how is it possible to reivew the type in the opposite direction? I think that if the evidence is lacking then typing should be avoided.

Besides, Russel betrays his saying himself by:
1)Setencing such a thing is a betrayal of being full of doubt
2)Trying to convince Wittgenstein in the famous episode of the elephant under the table

[CuriousSoul]

I don't understand how a given thought process can go both ways so easily. If a person is typed a certain way due to a given reasoning, then given the same evidence how is it possible to reivew the type in the opposite direction? I think that if the evidence is lacking then typing should be avoided.

Besides, Russel betrays his saying himself by:
1)Setencing such a thing is a betrayal of being full of doubt
2)Trying to convince Wittgenstein in the famous episode of the elephant under the table

OK, I do get a bit carried away from time to time.
Sometimes something appears almost certain - then contradictions start to appear. Time to quote Russel again though:

Even when all the experts agree, they may well be mistaken.
--Bertrand Russell

This is the major trouble in socionics.
When people appear to agree on someone's type it usually only indicates that he seems to fit a certain socionics type description remarkably well.
There is no objective proof available.
Throwing ideas around can stimulate discussion and sometimes even lead to new discoveries.

[Exodus]

Well, one thing in favor of his being IJ at least is the diary-writing -- that is perhaps a bit stereotypical but it seems to me that systematically, daily, writing a diary is more likely to be observed in IXXjs, and in ISTjs and ISFjs in particular.

I cannot see myself writing a diary. That would entail finding something interesting to write about every day--not likely. It also seems an incredible waste of time, unless you want to be a writer or something.

[Gilly]

******'s Minister of Propaganda

[ragnar]

My impression is EIE, idn relations to his slightly less insane boss.

[Gilly]

I was thinking LII.

[ragnar]

I was thinking LII.

Difficult to reconcile with his theatrical public speech performances.

[Gilly]

Right, because one must be Fe dominant to be theatrical.

I'm really fucking sick of this stereotyping bullshit.

[Beautiful sky]

INTj

[ragnar]

theatrical.

Stereotypes + observations = heuristics = plausibilities.

Btw I can see the creep as non Fe dominant, but EIE is my first guess.

[Gilly]

I'm positive by VI alone that he is Ti dominant.

[silverchris9]

Second pic looks like my really cool LII professor. Said professor is actually very theatrical, and performative, but in sort of a weird, half-shy way. Very LII. I'm sure if pushed he could *act* super-dramatic over-the-top, but I'm sure he wouldn't *want* to be that way, and that it would be uncomfortable for him Although, hmmm, he might get a weird kick out of it. Actually, no, I bet he'd get a weird kick out of it.

[Creepy-male]

I'm positive by VI alone that he is Ti dominant.

He does have that german-Ti look, not meaning that all german look Ti, but the germans that are Ti tend to have a specific look. Then again I am not a huge VI fan, but I would agree with this based on nothing more than a hunch.

[Pa3s]

My impression is EIE, idn relations to his slightly less insane boss.

Hard to tell who was more insane of these persons.
My first guess would also be LII, but I think there is a chance of IEI because he was a dreamer in school, he often fled into heroic fantasies. He also studied German philology and became dramatist. Besides that, Beta values doesn't seem to be so wrong here, I suppose.

[Gilly]

I would consider IEI, but not EIE.

[Beautiful sky]

I would consider IEI, but not EIE.

I would also consider LSI

Hard to tell who was more insane of these persons.
My first guess would also be LII, but I think there is a chance of IEI because he was a dreamer in school, he often fled into heroic fantasies. He also studied German philology and became dramatist. Besides that, Beta values doesn't seem to be so wrong here, I suppose.

I can see LSI

[Pa3s]

I can see LSI

I'm not so sure about Ethics vs. Logic, but I can't imagine him as a sensing type.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm not so sure about Ethics vs. Logic, but I can't imagine him as a sensing type.

Why?

[Pa3s]

Why?

I read just a little about him and what I got from this was the impression of a abstract thinking and highly theoretical man. Furthermore, all of this "Nazi mysticism" suits better to N types in my opinion. Of course, it's just what I thought.

[Beautiful sky]

I read just a little about him and what I got from this was the impression of a abstract thinking and highly theoretical man. Furthermore, all of this "Nazi mysticism" suits better to N types in my opinion. Of course, it's just what I thought.

No, I think you may have a good point, but why not LII?

[Pa3s]

No, I think you may have a good point, but why not LII?

You have to ask Pinocchio why he's not a LII, I did not exclude this option.

[MatthewZ]

Those pictures don't display him with the raw charisma ****** had. Of course, that could just be from the style of photography at the time.

VI-wise, he reminds me of Vladimir Putin, but I'm still out on Gobbels' type. IEI with a 1/5 certainty.

[Beautiful sky]

Cool, this is reassuring.

I see IEI as a possibility, but not LII. Genuine interest towards social movements and order and stuff sounds still EIE > IEI, imo.

Pinocchio, we really have to get past the stereotype of Beta being into social movements...
Infact, humanists and humanitarian valuers are more likely to drive social movements...therefore Delta values.

[Creepy-male]

non related lol

YouTube - Mr World 2010 - Germany

See thats why I don't consider myself an expert at VI, but... I don't consider you an expert either, so its pretty much just like one big shoulder shrug. I just find it funny how I'm supposed to be convinced from a single video clip, and your so confident in it that your laughing, stupidity really. Try making an argument instead of making ultra-confident assertions and showing a video clip with this whole attitude of "come on like everybody knows that, dur!, Hahaha". God I feel like I am back in high school. I don't even feel like taking the time to mention why exactly this is wrong from a purely logical POV, actually I just feel like resigning my life to all the super confident idiots out there, or better yet just laughing at them. Really I am not insulting you I just wish I was stupid myself, that way I wouldn't have to be pulling my hair out in frustration and we could both hold hands and do stupid stuff together and everything would be fine, but instead I actually have to see the errors in peoples arguments 24/7, and there boorish self-confidence doesn't make it any easier to get through the day.










Edit: ok I'll explain it.... after I've taken a hammer to the head and banged it repeatedly.

1) You can either say VI is true or its bullshit, there is no middle ground. If VI is true then there has to be something about a person's visual appearence that is correlated with a particular dominant function such as Ti. If VI is false then this is not true, therefore saying VI is false is a good argument and providing evidence to convince someone.

2) Now consider the idea that people of different ethnicities and races have different physical appearences but share a particular similarity in physical appearance with those of the same race and ethnicity. This is because of evolution, hereditary, and the isolation of particular cultures. You could disagree with this point and it would be reasonable if you provided evidence to bolster up this point.

3) Finally consider that if it is a german person who is being VI'd then it would be plausible that there is a particular look german-Ti people have. You could argue that he is not Ti or any of the other arguments in 1 to 2.

See each of these arguments; (1) VI is false and you cannot tell if a person is Ti from there appearance, (2) You cannot tell if a person is a particular race from their physical appearence, (3) Geobbels is not Ti.

Each of those arguments will succesfully disable any point I've made, because they directly address my assertions. A convincing argument provides evidence that is solid and factual and real world founded that makes me look at reality and think "maybe I've forgotten something". A video is real world, but how the f*** does a video on its own prove any of that to me. Can a video tell my why geobbels isn't Ti? No! Can a video tell me why Vi is false? No! Can a video tell me why people of a particular race don't share a certain physical appearance? No!

Plus this kind of weak argument gets delivered with a heaping helping of self-confidence just make me loose faith in humanities intelligence.

Really its presumptious but I feel your just trying to argue me on Fi-grounds, it a typical notion that people shouldn't categorize people into races and draw a parallel between physical appearance and race. In fact the reason for this is what the nazis did with the jews, and leave it to a topic about a nazi to bring this to the front of ones mind. The sad part about this is its a perfect illustration of Fi vs Ti in society. Look there is nothing wrong with attempting to draw parallels between appearance and race, the only reason it was wrong with the nazis is because they treated jewish people like lab specimens and not human beings and commited genocide against them. In this topic, there is no de-humanizing or genocide, so its really ok to talk about physical appearance and race, plus there are some very good Ti based reason why occasionally this is reliable, not all the time, there are expections, but whatever, I've already spoken too much and I'm prepared to get a mass of weak arguments that force me in another frenzied defense of my ideas.

Also for the record saying german-Ti was two mutually exclusive adjectives that are independant descriptors, they are not two interconnected adjectives that share a dependance, so I wasn't attempting to say something like all germans look Ti.

[MatthewZ]

As for German, isn't is the integral type of Germany a type?