lolOriginally Posted by Reficulris
lol
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Well to be fair I tend to form more stable relations with other NFs. Even if things go wrong we somehow manage to not be bitter about it. Also they seem to understand me better.
Now with STs - doesn't matter beta or delta it is always a guessing game. I suppose duality in many instances, especially when you haven't been around your duals before, takes time. But quite often the relationship falls apart before you get to know the person well enough.
Sincerely Yours,
Beyond the clouds. Beyond the sun.
The Rebel without a cause.
And for me being ENFj and being unstable. I meant mood wise I am not very stable(mainly because I worry so much), otherwise I plan things and stick to them. I also have a tendency to expect the worst so I always have a back up plan in mind.
With my ex the main problem was him wanting to either relax or work and me wanting to actually "live and have fun". From the very beginning he wanted to be sure where we stand with each other relationship wise, maybe that's Fi seeking?
Sincerely Yours,
Beyond the clouds. Beyond the sun.
The Rebel without a cause.
When I date an IEI and the relationship is healthy, it feels like this, except instead of being suave enrique iglesias, I'm awkward, and tripping over shit and talking too loudly to cover up my extreme nervousness, and the girl is super smiley and just laughing at how hard I'm trying:
When I date unhealthy IEI's, it feels like this:
Last edited by Azure Flame; 01-04-2014 at 07:39 PM.
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
Well from where I stand she's too future oriented. My dad would say she sometimes dreams big . I guess her Ni works both ways : she can have a vision of what thing could be or become and fight for it; or she can worry too much, unfounded worries. Like what if that doesn't work? let's prepare an alternative. What if the train doesn't come on time? We should have a back-up plan, I don't wanna get stuck for hours here. What if, WHAT IF?. See.
Last edited by Amber; 02-21-2014 at 08:48 AM.
cause it's a forum and no one needs to take the trash out
(yeah, even SEIs get tired of the mundane, despite whatever the stereotypes say about dust-cleaning smiley fairies awaiting to pass the newspaper and slippers to their SO)
@Maritsa - the number of times that I asked my SO to do sth a certain way and he just needed to keep experimenting...and in the end he did it my way anyway...
But. I actually recently heard him say - "hmm I might actually do this your way right away, cause I guess you know what you're saying" (FINALLY! lol
I wasn't serious and I am perfectly capable with the latter. Killing people as well.cause it's a forum and no one needs to take the trash out
Wow interesting skills you have
[Yeah and btw I wasn't completely serious either. I find it amusing the number of times you tell me you're joking, even though I already know you are. Happen to enjoy sarcasm
Some duals can be stressful to be around simply because they are overbearing and abrasive people. Not type related. Be careful before you judge an entire relationship to be negative based on limited examples.
I was in a brief relationship-like situation with an ILE (my dual), and the energy that flowed between us worked, like we were on the same level on a lot of things. But there were some things that just didn't click at all. Such as his lack of communication :/ Also, as much as I loved his creative view on things, there is a time and place, and sometimes you just need to do things the way you know works OTL But of course he wouldnt listen to that, being as stubborn as he is once he gets an idea in his head OTL
Mind you, it wasn't exactly the healthiest set-up, so perhaps if we had both been healthier/more mature and in a different life space, I could see us toooootally clicking. Sucks that things just turn out that way sometimes though -shrug-
Hamlet is Extrovert, Intuit, ethical, dynamic, negativist, asking, strategical, constructivist, rational, process oriented, obstinate, careless, decisive, merry, aristocrat.
Combine all that and you will see why.
there are couple of suggestions to all about duality:
1. not every dual will be your true dual
2. in some cases only psychiatrist will help someone even if it's your dual
3. make sure you identify the correct type of a person. I had many examples when people tried to behave as someone else and lived in the conflict with each other, which made typing a bit hard. My advice - do not jump into the conclusion about duality between you and that "sweet" and "cute" person in front of you.
4.make sure you identify your own type correctly according to the model and Reinin dichotomies.
5. For those who can speak Russian, I highly recommend to read this - http://www.strannik.de/lovesyntax/map.htm if you have a double dual, it is a true blessing! this will explain a lot better why even duals might not get along with each other. better than sub-types etc. Won't write a lot about it here, ask me if you want to know - being a declaring and dynamic type, I might go far far away with it.
In order to really enjoy duality, every party should be psychologically relaxedand comfortable. and in order to do that - you must allow some time for that to happen. My practice shows that it takes about 4-6 months to really enjoy the comfort of your dual. Why? because 1. you are used to interact with non-duals and even communicating with your dual you subconsiously think of "evil meanings" behind words or actions. so, it takes some time to psychologically relax. 2. normally people do not meet their duals (because duals hang around different groups or have some different interests) every day. It is very rare to meet a dual. I would say that at first you don't even know why someone like you would be awarded with such a dual. So, it takes time to see the practical application of model A.
Only after you've been in 1 successful and real dual relationships (for this - you both MUST be correctly indentified) only then you are up for relaxing around other duals you're going to meet.
Duality is addicting.
Yeah, I can relate to the bolded parts. It took a lot of work to get my ILE to open up and communicate. Especially his feelings. And it's a work in progress. The reward is he says I'm the person who knows him best and ctually cares enough to drag his opinions out and listen to them.
Idk if all ILEs are like that, but if so - then this maybe could be one of those things that are a role of SEI to perform in the ILE-SEI duality...
And stubborn he is. But he's learning to see that it might be time-efficient to just listen to my advice sometimes instead of sticking with testing every other option only to come to the conclusion that I already proposed in the first place.
We met when we were very young and he tried to pursue me right away but I wasn't interested. When a few years later we became a couple he actually said that we probably wouldn't have lasted if we became a couple earlier on as he was very immature (his words). From my perspective - I also value him much more than I would've if I didn't have certain experiences prior to our relationship. So I guess there has to be the right time and place... and a right person (but not necessarily a stranger ime)Mind you, it wasn't exactly the healthiest set-up, so perhaps if we had both been healthier/more mature and in a different life space, I could see us toooootally clicking. Sucks that things just turn out that way sometimes though -shrug-
I don't speak Russian and am very interested in reading about the concept of "double duality" you've mentioned. Could you please elaborate on it?5. For those who can speak Russian, I highly recommend to read this - http://www.strannik.de/lovesyntax/map.htm if you have a double dual, it is a true blessing! this will explain a lot better why even duals might not get along with each other. better than sub-types etc. Won't write a lot about it here, ask me if you want to know - being a declaring and dynamic type, I might go far far away with it.
it is also a simple and brilliant system, which makes sense. It has 4 functions - 1,2,3,4. first two are strong and last two are week. 1 and 4 are result oriented and 2 and 3 are process oriented. 3 is also a stress point, sort of like PoLR. 4th is weak and doesn't care much.
There are 4 aspects - will power, physical state, logical (thinking) and emotional state.
definition of "will power" - it is more like "I am" and "what I want". This aspect is responsible for making decisions, for influencing decisions even when it comes to someone's emotions. If you have willpower as 1 function - it is monologue, excess, result and individualism. You will see these people who seem to be confident, "stubborn" (because they don't repeat themselves twice or they don't change decisions - I want it that way and this is how it's going to be". on the second place - it's like a norm, dialogue and process. These people will manipulate with everything else they have to make you make the right decision they want - they will never tell you directly what they want or what you should be doing, but rather indirectly talk to you about what would be nice to do if only you'd support. and it is never ending process. If it is on the 3 place - It is a complex of the person, total vulnerability of the core person. They will never agree with any decisions, they will always look for "enemies" around them and they will fight and struggle psychologically, trying to blame everything on someone else. On the 4th place - it's like wax, dependence and omnivorous. these people prefer direct instructions on what needs to be done, what is the best decision. They'd prefer someone else make decisions for them.
Apply the same kind of thing for all other aspects.... I will give you my example. I am 1E 2Ph 3L 4WP. So I have a lot of emotions, it is my first dominant and result oriented thing. When I start - better not to interfereI am always moving. 2 physical state will give you a lot of everything - oh, we have guests? all right! let's cook some stuff! oh, only 2 people are coming? well, they will take some food home or we could feed some neighbors too! running, walking, jumping, making love - it is all about the process. I drink a glass of wine because i love this particular process, I try to drink this glass of wine slow and enjoy every moment of it. my 3 one is thinking - being a positive, it is hard to always be a critic of everything! yes, I will look for flaws. I hate dogmas and will make any dogma disappear (anybody with the 1 logic will piss me off EVEN if it's a dual
maybe I'll get another one
and my 4th one is willpower - please make all decisions for me! please tell me what to do? yes, I do what others tell me to do. I prefer them telling me directly.
My interactions with this one ENTp I know have been pretty smooth..
Smooth interaction was the first thing I noticed around ILEs. Smoother than with other types in the sense that even when I say with good intentions sth that could be understood in two ways and some people might get offended or sth - ILEs usually get it according to my initial meaning.
I don't have an IEIs perspective on interacting with ILE as we've lost contact, but ILE says that interaction with IEI was more difficult than with me - he can't remember details, but from what I remember it wasn't any major misunderstandings, more like IEI judging ILE's "goofiness" as embarrassing and ILE probably getting a bit hurt (not in the way that would be clearly visible to onlookers) with some of the IEIs comments.
...and your interactions with SLEs?
I used to be friends with a SLE girl in childhood/early teens and it was good and fun, but interaction with ILEs is sth that just clicks more in the sense that the communication is easier and feels more fun.
I'd agree with that last assessment Aisa.
Interacting with ILE is usually pretty good, but the way we talk doesnt really prompt the other person to give their 2 cents. Wheras with SLE thats almost always the case. Oddly enough though, ILE and me tend to gravitate towards similar interests and topics of conversation. So we'll instigate conversations with each other that we both want to have, it's just better not smooth afterward.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
That's apparently the intuitive 'level' or whatever it is called, so both (intuitive Socionics wise) parties are going to have it easier.
I can't think of any experiences I've had with SLE's, although my best friend in highschool was an SEE..While we appreciated one another, there was always a sense that I was walking on eggshells with her..especially as we got closer in our friendship.
Hmm I find SEEs to be very different from SLEs. I currently know one SEE male and it always feel sort of a "forced" interaction. We're polite and like each other, but it's pretty obvious we don't have that much in common to talk about. I find chatting with his dual ILI girfriend much more entertaining...
This describes my EIE best friend exactly.
If it isn't smooth, natural, and conflict-free, it isn't duality. Duality works just like it's supposed to; I think what OP is describing is super-ego.
Beta dualities can be quite turbulent it seems. I've also read a story where both sides in an apha-p duality desired to murder the other. Finally a story where person a of a delta-p duality dragged b out of the house and onto the lawn then pointed a gun at b's head.
There isn't any misunderstanding or bad-blood in dualitiy; there isn't any disagreement or lack of communication. Perhaps we're talking about activity relations? I find those are a bit more tense.
Uhg, of course its not smooth, natural and conflict free. Duality just has the POTENTIAL to be smooth, natural and conflict (solving). This kind of rhetoric really makes me wonder how much is socionics verbatim and how much is personal experience. I'm sorry for being adamant and stressing this point so much.
That's why I love threads like this, of course its normal to be stressed out by a dual. Its %100 normal to feel stress. The trick to feel it and not hide/distract/reject/project your stress. Anyone who tells you its not normal, that it should be this paradise of relational bliss ect, has much maturing and learning to do.
I want a minion!
One of the things people seem to forget regarding duality is that the demonstrative function of one is the polr function of the other. Initially this is likely to create some conflicts and misunderstandings and polr hits. but as the two people become more familiar with each other, then they'll be able to smooth out that conflict...hopefully.
There's still influences like lifestyles, outside stresses and pressures, internal pressures/ideals, differing experiences/beliefs, where each is at in their life, etc etc. Processing certain types of information does not necessarily mean same/complimentary results, decisions, behaviors, etc. All the above influences add extra layers over each instance. This is why same types can behave and draw different conclusions despite attending to the same types of information. And to think that that doesn't multiply the differences when adding in another type is a little naive/simplistic, imo.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
My Russian college roommate, who eventually taught me socionics, would often come drunk into my room, sit/lay down on my floor, and start saying with great sadness, "not every dual is your dual."
She was SLE and was in love with her IEI thesis advisor.
LOL. I say that too.
I actually just remembered this one SLE I used to hang around often for some reason..our interactions were pretty neutral/hit-or-miss, although nothing worth complaining about. We vaguely enjoyed eachother's company and barely got into quarrels.
You just perfectly described our marriage!Drama free, comfortable. I don't know how to explain it, but sometimes I feel as though we have some strange ESP going on. More often than not, we both might be thinking the same thing, but we won't say it. Finally, when we need to clear the air or open the communication line, we find out that we both feel the same way. Yet I have a sense for his thought process all along.
Our early dual beginning... I wouldn't say there was any stress involved for us at all, but other dual type mileage may vary. I do remember wondering why he liked me, because he would never really say why and we seemed so opposite, but I loved that about him. I felt it allowed me to shine in my strengths, and he in his.
I will say, though, that had we not met online and had the opportunity to write and talk over the phone before meeting, I'm not so certain we would have decided to date. I could be wrong. He definitely intrigued me, but I'm not 100% certain that I would have invested as quickly in him if we'd been strangers or introduced as acquaintances, simply because I would've doubted that we would've had anything in common.
And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30
Hey Applejacks, how have you been!
Hi hk! I got a warm fuzzy when I saw your profile photo hadn't changed.
@Animal , @lemontrees , @Starfall @Slacker , @WorkaholicsAnon - yours, too.
(I also like that some profile styles haven't changed... @Maritsa - with your photo. Love seeing familiar faces!)
And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30
wow, I can very much relate, although we're different quadras (SEI-ILE marriage in my case).You just perfectly described our marriage!
Our early dual beginning... I wouldn't say there was any stress involved for us at all, but other dual type mileage may vary. I do remember wondering why he liked me, because he would never really say why and we seemed so opposite, but I loved that about him. I felt it allowed me to shine in my strengths, and he in his.
I will say, though, that had we not met online and had the opportunity to write and talk over the phone before meeting, I'm not so certain we would have decided to date. I could be wrong. He definitely intrigued me, but I'm not 100% certain that I would have invested as quickly in him if we'd been strangers or introduced as acquaintances, simply because I would've doubted that we would've had anything in common.
I met my husband through acquaintances and it was a much longer process and yes, he "knew" right away, while I couldn't see how it was supposed to "work". It took him a long time to convince and prove me otherwise.
You can be assured it will never change, as it has not changed since 2007.
I think a lot of ILE know right away because
lol, as I was reading what I wrote I actually thought sth similar "maybe it was NeI think a lot of ILE know right away because
If that's the case then I had a "glimpse" of Ne
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