Now that we fucked, I don't love you anymore

[mu4]

I don't see that it would be practice. As said before, I haven't been able to keep up with any routine that doesn't offer immediate gratification. Practicing is almost always looking for something long-term benefits.
I don't even think that faking it would be a working tactic. Sure, I have social roles but who doesn't? Me speaking to my brother is not me speaking to some attractive woman. I even usually smirkingly tell everyone in casual social interaction that I'm an unemployed alcoholic. No shame involved.

If you don't feel shame don't tell me you feel pride. Excuses, excuses. You already say you say things you know you won't mean or keep your promises to women in order to get them in bed. That's what is fake. You know this and yet you do it, you are being the fake you.

"I will say foolish things sincerely if I'm high on them. Later I don't feel the same way and I feel sorry for perhaps giving them false hopes about something more permanent."

Are you really sincere when you aren't sincere. You're giving them false hope, aren't you? It's ok to be different with different people, but is it ok for you to be fake. Those are not mutually inclusive.

What do you think happened when I have been satisfied? I happened to be the "real" me?

I don't really believe in real long term satisfaction, but what satisfaction you can attain without harming others or without making yourself dislike what you have done is reason enough to do something true to yourself. Satisfaction is fleeting, and pain is fleeting, but what you remember of the experience, that might haunt you.

Why would I want to provide for someone? I'm happy to be provided but I don't need that either. Very fundamental to my life is that I should get along with the minimum. Having a princess that needs financial providing isn't what I'd want to pursue.
More probable would be that I, like many people, simply see that they were too easy and I like a chase. Then again these two do not have to exclude one another.

Sure, it's described that certain people like a chase. But you thinking they're too easy is you looking down on them, when you know you've given them false hope. You thought they would know better, and you damaged them. Hey I know it doesn't sit right in your head what you have done, that's why you make this post. Now you just have to figure out what to do about it.

It's not really my place to judge, you know what you have done is wrong, it doesn't mean it has to continue, it doesn't mean you have to stop chasing women. You can figure something out that will let you not damage others.

[Aquagraph]

If you don't feel shame don't tell me you feel pride. Excuses, excuses. You already say you say things you know you won't mean or keep your promises to women in order to get them in bed. That's what is fake. You know this and yet you do it, you are being the fake you.

"I will say foolish things sincerely if I'm high on them. Later I don't feel the same way and I feel sorry for perhaps giving them false hopes about something more permanent."

I say things that imply something just because I feel that way at that moment. Being somewhat who is inclined to fall for people easily might make me feel that way at that very moment but that doesn't mean that I would feel that way the next day. And I often warn about this too because I feel guilty for it.

No offence but I have a feeling that you have a wrong idea of what I'm like in what comes to how I have seduced people. In my opinion I have been very sincere and still (and maybe because of) that has worked for me when it comes to getting what I wanted, although for just that one night. After that night I have been clueless.

[mikemex]

You do not know what love is. You confuse attraction with love. Attraction is an emotional state of arousal and thus, it can't be maintained for long. Love is something subtle, almost imperceptible. You don't know when it is there, you only feel its absence when it's not.

This was described by Epicurus long time ago: happiness is not the pressence of joy, it is the absence of pain. You know you're happy because nothing bothers you and feel peace. You could arguee, that Epicurus, being a Fi valuer, does not understand the emotional effeversence of Fe valuers, but that's not true. Like any major discovery, it is true for everyone and in any time. Socionics for example, follows the same teaching, by proposing that a dual does not neccesarily causes strong emotions in you, rather, makes you to feel safe and valued. That's why duals are so difficult to spot: people are seeking excitement, ignoring that lasting happiness and love is exactly the opposite.

Rather than claiming that Fi PoLR is difficulty to establish relationships, I would say that it is difficulty about doing introspection. It seems to me that you do not know when you are happy unless it's too obvious.

[Aivonaima]

---

[Gilly]

I say things that imply something just because I feel that way at that moment. Being somewhat who is inclined to fall for people easily might make me feel that way at that very moment but that doesn't mean that I would feel that way the next day. And I often warn about this too because I feel guilty for it.

No offence but I have a feeling that you have a wrong idea of what I'm like in what comes to how I have seduced people. In my opinion I have been very sincere and still (and maybe because of) that has worked for me when it comes to getting what I wanted, although for just that one night. After that night I have been clueless.

I can see where you are coming from, it feels so intense in the moment that you don't always put what you think into perspective before spilling it out ; its just your honest romantic sentiment in the moment. To me that is very understandable, I have done the same.

However it becomes disingenuous and misleading and basically bad when you KNOW you have this tendency, but still act on it repeatedly anyway. Maybe you get so drunk that you can't be blamed; then you need to decide if you care enough about others to scale back the drinking enough that you don't make these mistakes. But don't pretend to feel sorry about it when you put yourself in that same position over and over again; if you go down that road, then you basically deserve whatever it leads you to.

[Gilly]

Oh by the way this kind of impulsivity and lack of introspection reeks of Se dominance and Ni seeking...in my opinion.

[Aquagraph]

It's not really my place to judge, you know what you have done is wrong, it doesn't mean it has to continue, it doesn't mean you have to stop chasing women. You can figure something out that will let you not damage others.

Whatever I do has virtue and vice in it. This is me trying to better myself.

You do not know what love is.

This is fairly arrogant to say about someone who you don't know. I agree with some parts of your post and the rest of it I ignore because socionics.

Maybe that's because you keep drinking your brains out and occasionally rolling around in self-pity while at it.

I did not mean to sound like it was spiritual meditation or whatever it is when people sit in a lotus position and I can see how it was misleading, especially to you. I have thought about these matters life. I have had very much time in my life to do so. Alcohol and drugs, especially psychedelics, seem to have played some role in me thinking/pondering/whatever is fucked up. If you are trying to form something constructive for me to think about, you are conveying the message rather poorly. If you are trying to guilt trip an alcoholic, you are doing a very good job in it. I feel like getting a drink and fuck these thoughts away. I'm not explaining it away, it is how I deal from time to time.

I can see where you are coming from, it feels so intense in the moment that you don't always put what you think into perspective before spilling it out ; its just your honest romantic sentiment in the moment. To me that is very understandable, I have done the same.

However it becomes disingenuous and misleading and basically bad when you KNOW you have this tendency, but still act on it repeatedly anyway. Maybe you get so drunk that you can't be blamed; then you need to decide if you care enough about others to scale back the drinking enough that you don't make these mistakes. But don't pretend to feel sorry about it when you put yourself in that same position over and over again; if you go down that road, then you basically deserve whatever it leads you to.

Actually I am very interested: What would you advice me to do? I know that you have.. hmm.. solutions that are in line with mine often. These are obviously very deeply seated in my life and we don't know that well so I don't expect you to produce an answer that is the way for me but you never know.

[Gilly]

@Aquagraph maybe try getting laid without being so drunk that you say things you know aren't true

Basically it seems like the booze is magnifying everything, not only making you more promiscuous but also making you more emotionally open and vulnerable, which in turn leads you to say shit that won't be true once the booze wears off. Its giving you this delusion that e erything is temporary, when in fact its just the booze and the openness it allows you to feel wearing off. There's a reason so many great writers were alcoholics: its the shortcut to opening your heart. You are just opening and shutting your heart so much; now its used to opening and shutting. Maybe try actually pursuing someone over a length of time before you sleep with her, and...not being drunk!

[Aivonaima]

---

[Aquagraph]

I'm trying to give you a light bitchslap to wake you up just a bit, but apparently you're following the loser scripts. Pity.

First of all, you are suggesting/offering me to a loser's script when I still define this something I can overcome. Of course there will be whining but I'm not desperate. I fall only to get back on my feet and don't forget that.

I must admit that things that please me too much are indeed a persistent challenge. Yet I beat gluttony to the point of being a 40kg lighter vegan with an ascetic and practical view of his diet. Then I loosened up the stranglehold without regaining any weight.

To me it is fairly fucking obvious that your spiteful attitude toward my drinking is not because you are trying to sincerely help me but because you don't like it when I drink.

@Aquagraph maybe try getting laid without being so drunk that you say things you know aren't true

Basically it seems like the booze is magnifying everything, not only making you more promiscuous but also making you more emotionally open and vulnerable, which in turn leads you to say shit that won't be true once the booze wears off. Its giving you this delusion that e erything is temporary, when in fact its just the booze and the openness it allows you to feel wearing off. There's a reason so many great writers were alcoholics: its the shortcut to opening your heart. You are just opening and shutting your heart so much; now its used to opening and shutting. Maybe try actually pursuing someone over a length of time before you sleep with her, and...not being drunk!

I'll follow this advice.

Actually I could reduce drinking althogether. Let's test it.

I'll fetch a patch of cheap alcohol from Estonia, start selling it and won't get drunk until I'll get the money back. This can be done in the streets and it doesn't exclude campaigning because it fits the Pirate agenda in a funny way. I might sell them along with other merchandise with little or no profit. It's a good way for a candidate to actively seem like a man-of-the-people in some working class areas.

What comes to sex: No drunken romancing and drunken fucking on the same night. Unless it's someone I already have a that kind of connection to. So basically it's fucking FWBs and long-term mistresses.

[Aivonaima]

---

[Aquagraph]

But what hurts my chest the most is seeing a very unique and promising human being waste his potential on getting wasted time after time. It feels sad and blasphemous, but there's nothing I can do about it, because he thinks it's fairly obvious I don't sincerely want to help him. What the fuck man, are you serious?

You do know that I have serious problems trusting you on some levels. That's actually a good reason to get drunk around you. But I think we've had fun when I've drunk in moderation. It's about "how", not about "what".

[Aivonaima]

---

[Aquagraph]

Yep, and lately, you've been very poor at it.

I know the last time was shitty, but that one night in Eerikin kulma? The time before that when I gave out fliers was the first time we saw in couple of months and I don't think it was that bad. You were not fully present and you probably couldn't handle the group of friends we bumped at.

[Aivonaima]

---

[mikemex]

This is fairly arrogant to say about someone who you don't know. I agree with some parts of your post and the rest of it I ignore because socionics.

Am I arrogant for telling you the truth? It's a bold statement, without sugar coating. Read the topic title and read again what I said.

[Absurd]

[Aquagraph]

Am I arrogant for telling you the truth? It's a bold statement, without sugar coating. Read the topic title and read again what I said.

Whatever. It's your decision if you want to make bold statements about strangers. I don't need you in my thread but I can't stop if you want to post something I'll ignore.

[Aivonaima]

---

[Aquagraph]

What makes you assume you know what love is?

I don't make that assumption. Nor do I make an opposite assumption.
"Knowing what love is" sounds like a Hollywood flourish that means jackshit.

I just find it repulsive to say that someone doesn't know what the most adored human quality is. I wouldn't attribute that lack even to a newborn child.

As I implied, I did not disagree with anything he said. In this case I consider that I can get more than enough wisdom from others that can convey the message without resorting to disrespectful platitudes. Don't think that I found it offensive. I'm just very willing to see him as an idiot what comes to talking about these things.

[Gravolez]

I think that aqua can experience/feel love. Knowing what love is is irrelevant. I think love is something like friendship plus sex plus some chemicals like oxitocyn and vasopressin at work in the brain which make you get more attached to the person you have sex with (hence some people get less attached and other more attached). However the chemicals don't work for too long and/or work differently. Also people are looking for different things and I could even imagine a totally open relationship between two people who love each other.

[Absurd]

Bump.

[mikemex]

Aquagraph is pretty fucked up. I mean, he comes and exposes pretty intimate issues with all details and then, out of nowhere, doesn't like to be judged? WTF? This is a public forum, you put something here for everyone to read, you can't expect every random stranger give an opinion and tell you about it in a way it sounds like he's your friend. We're not friends and I'm not his personal therapist. I don't see why is it wrong that I come and analyze it as an academic issue and give away a dispassionate opinion. I don't give a shit at all, for me the forum is a way to kill time in an interesting way.

Now, I belive it's the opposite of what he says. What sounds "Hollywood flourish" is to assume that just because you're human then you know everything about life, as if life was something simple. We all are born ignorants, you know? Not everything in life is the way common sense indicates. And for the record, I never said Aquagraph can't experience love, I just said that, from the exposed problem, it sounds very obvious that he thinks infatuation is love, which makes me to belive that he doesn't understand that infatuation and love are different things. And that leads me to believe that he never experienced love and thus, never had a chance to reflect about it and for that reason, he doesn't understand what love is and that explains why he doesn't understand the issue he's experiencing. See? I don't need to know Aquagraph's entire life to take a few leads and follow. But I don't blame him for being clueless about love, I suspect a lot of people is the same because, well, people assume things are automatic.

Thing is, love doesn't wear out. It's something internal and self-sustaining. That's why they say, poetically, that love is selfless. It remains there, even when you find out the other person isn't as perfect as you first thought and even after you're no longer with. Nobody has expressed better what love is than Antoine de Saint-Exupéry in the Little Prince:

"Just that," said the fox. "To me, you are still nothing more than a little boy who is just like a hundred thousand other little boys. And I have no need of you. And you, on your part, have no need of me. To you I am nothing more than a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world....”

“It is the time you have wasted for your rose that makes your rose so important.”

"You become responsible forever for what you’ve tamed.”

“True love begins when nothing is looked for in return.”

If you write a book you become part of history. But if you say the same stuff to some idiot in a forum, then you're a jerk.

[Gilly]

@mikemex what is your fucking problem kid? You just come in and say all this belligerent, insulting shit to someone who is barring their personal life to the public. I agree with a lot of what you say in your post, but the level of insincerity and childish callousness your attitude conveys is fucking pathetic.

[Aquagraph]

Aquagraph is pretty fucked up.

I agree 100%.

I mean, he comes and exposes pretty intimate issues with all details and then, out of nowhere, doesn't like to be judged? WTF? This is a public forum, you put something here for everyone to read, you can't expect every random stranger give an opinion and tell you about it in a way it sounds like he's your friend. We're not friends and I'm not his personal therapist.

I didn't expect not to be judged. On the contrary: If I wasn't judged at least by some of the thread lurkers, I'd have been to nice to myself when describing the situation.

I don't see why is it wrong that I come and analyze it as an academic issue and give away a dispassionate opinion.

Don't get it wrong, you pushing your "academic" love analysis is not something I consider wrong, just unhelpful. But I'm glad you find this an interesting way to kill some time bumping my thread in the wake of my fart.

[Absurd]

Aquagraph is pretty fucked up. I mean, he comes and exposes pretty intimate issues with all details and then, out of nowhere, doesn't like to be judged? WTF? This is a public forum, you put something here for everyone to read, you can't expect every random stranger give an opinion and tell you about it in a way it sounds like he's your friend. We're not friends and I'm not his personal therapist. I don't see why is it wrong that I come and analyze it as an academic issue and give away a dispassionate opinion. I don't give a shit at all, for me the forum is a way to kill time in an interesting way.

Fucked up or not fucked up - wailing that somebody on the Internet said something and you have had to read it, meaning there was no other way you could avoided it, is actually fucked up in my book. Stranger or no stranger, I'm not interested how a person in question conducts his life/affairs as long that person doesn't make it his personal agenda to actually strip me of something I enjoy doing myself. And yes, you're not his friend nor therapist, but you act as one.

I'm not defending him nor attacking you, hey it's just me.

as if life was something simple.

Well, if life was something simple it wouldn't be worth living.

it sounds very obvious that he thinks infatuation is love, which makes me to belive that he doesn't understand that infatuation and love are different things. And that leads me to believe that he never experienced love and thus, never had a chance to reflect about it and for that reason, he doesn't understand what love is and that explains why he doesn't understand the issue he's experiencing.

Ehh, gave an effort and read some of it. He said he was infatuated, not in love, so he couldn't be in love, only infatuated. At least it sounded like that to me. I take it when a person says death, that person doesn't mistake it with life.

Anyhow, drink yourself to death, Aqua. It's on me

[Aquagraph]

Anyhow, drink yourself to death, Aqua. It's on me

[Absurd]

pic

You or me picked a, hmm, good moment. I'm actually drinking.

[Gilly]

Am I arrogant for telling you the truth? It's a bold statement, without sugar coating. Read the topic title and read again what I said.

There's clearly not a fucking bold thing about you, underhandedly insulting people on the internet for trying to overcome their problems. Shame on you and the negative energy you bring to this dark thread.

[Absurd]

Wasn't you who insulted people on the Internet, Gilly? And Aua, won't overcome his problems on the Internet no matter how realistic that sounds.

[Gilly]

Yeah I was actually tthe first person to ever curse on the internet. It was at hkkmr, for crossing the dividing line of chaos and order, in the very first days of dialup AOL. Ye, let thee peasants hearken unto me, and learn the ways passed down from the elden days.

[Gilly]

And yeah obviously he's not going to cure himself on the internet, but talking about it might help.

[Absurd]

Alright. Going to go with action though. Thanks, anyway.

[Gilly]

Yeah action helps, in aquas case it seems that would be drinking less

[Absurd]

Yeah action helps, in aquas case it seems that would be drinking less

It means not drinking at all as long he wants to uphold that ascetic ideal he talks so often and refers to when talking about himself.

[Gilly]

It means not drinking at all as long he wants to uphold that ascetic ideal he talks so often and refers to when talking about himself.

It would seem so

[Bardia]

Seems like the first question you have to answer for yourself is do I want to change? Is what you are doing a problem for yourself? It seems like you said it is a problem for other people, but I didn't get a clear read on if this something you don't like about yourself.

[mikemex]

There's clearly not a fucking bold thing about you, underhandedly insulting people on the internet for trying to overcome their problems. Shame on you and the negative energy you bring to this dark thread.

You obviously don't understand how it started. I simply stated that he doesn't know what love is, which is a cold and dry fact. I'm just the messenger here, and he simply started shooting at me.

[Gilly]

You obviously don't understand how it started. I simply stated that he doesn't know what love is, which is a cold and dry fact. I'm just the messenger here, and he simply started shooting at me.

No, YOU were a presumptuous ass. Who the fuck defines what love is? Does love even really exist? Who can be the judge of shit like this? Who the fuck do you think you are? Epicurus can suck my left nut, he's not me, or you, or Aquagraph, he's fucking dead, just some Greek dude who figured he knew better than other people. I agree what Aquagraph is talking about isn't love but that doesn't mean he doesn't know what love is; that's just such a fucking heinous thing to say about someone. Learn some fucking respect.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Standing by for indignant IEE jibberjabber in defense of dumb interpersonal misinterpretations confused with truth...