Questions for Enneagram type 9s and 6s

[domino]

Hi,

I can't figure out which ennea type I am. Maybe I'm 6 or 9 under stress :/ Those who are 9 or 6 (and others, of course) can you help me? I have some questions:

for enneagram 6's

Is there anything that makes you angrier than someone turning on you that you've given your loyalty to and even if this happen, it's difficult for you to cut those people from your life?
Can you be over emotionally needy?
Do you fear something physical to happen or your anxiety and fear is more internal?

For 9's

It is said that they are like a "crown" of enneagram, the glue that holds community together but ... it is also said that they avoid self analysing which prevents them from growing. But how you can be so called diamond of enneagram without self developemend?
Also, 9's do not want their inner stability to be affected or influenced by other people, but their purpose of life is to to help maintain the wholeness and well-being of others. Contradictions everythere!

Or maybe you have some tips and tricks which helps to find out accurate type? I would be very glad if you share!

[InvisibleJim]

Lets make this easier.

6) Anxiety passion, worrying fixation

or

9) Sloth passion, daydreaming fixation

Choose one set of traits that are most applicable

[ashlesha]

Is there anything that makes you angrier than someone turning on you that you've given your loyalty to and even if this happen, it's difficult for you to cut those people from your life?

i'm not sure i understand this question. there are things that have made me angrier.

its difficult for me to cut people out of my life out of anger. anger is an active emotion that doesn't really lend itself well to something cold and dry like cutting somebody out. when i feel betrayed and angry i want to punish and get the last word. when the anger dissipates and there's no more provocation and all that's left is the lack of trust void of strong emotion, then its very easy to cut people out.

Can you be over emotionally needy?

the two people i remember ever accusing me of this were 5s, lol. i have occasional moments where i get overwhelmed and spaz and get emotionally obnoxious but on a regular day-to-day basis i tend to be on the emotionally distant side and more people have commented about that.

Do you fear something physical to happen or your anxiety and fear is more internal?

more internal. i don't even really think of myself as fearful. i know i'm anxious when i'm feeling agitated and irritable or my jaws hurt from clenching or i'm chewing on my fingers a lot. its more like an ambiance in my life than a conscious list of fears.

[ashlesha]

ive gone between 6 and 9 and i should have some tricks to offer but i don't...maybe lines of integration and disintegration. or meditating on the core passions and the triads (though i think thats kind of overrated, honestly, it all becomes a blurry mix of forer after awhile haha)

[Galen]

for enneagram 6's

Is there anything that makes you angrier than someone turning on you that you've given your loyalty to and even if this happen, it's difficult for you to cut those people from your life?

I find myself more angered at people grossly misrepresenting themselves than anything else. Of course I need trust in my relationships, as does any other healthy relationship, but if there's an irreparable disconnect between someone's self-perception and my own understanding of how he/she works then I don't even bother dealing with them

Can you be over emotionally needy?

I don't see myself as so clingy, althouh I've rarely ever been pushed to such a high point of stress where such tendencies might come out.

Do you fear something physical to happen or your anxiety and fear is more internal?

There is no such thing as external fear. As far as I see it, fear is a completely future-oriented mindset based in uncertainty; for average or fixated 6s this is compounded upon by a poor sense of trust in one's own abilities when it comes to problem-solving and navigating life's issues.

For 9's

It is said that they are like a "crown" of enneagram, the glue that holds community together but ... it is also said that they avoid self analysing which prevents them from growing. But how you can be so called diamond of enneagram without self developemend?

I've seen similar descriptions in the literature too, and in my view this is vastly overrated. 9s are not inherently better or worse than any other type, since it's all contingent on their emotional health, both overall and from moment to moment. I've definitely noticed what you say about 9s avoiding self-analysis, on the more unhealthy they seem to float along through life without putting much thought into what they're doing; or they will conversely come to understand something new about themselves that will lead to growth, but they never act upon it and instead opt for the safety in their stagnancy.

Also, 9's do not want their inner stability to be affected or influenced by other people, but their purpose of life is to to help maintain the wholeness and well-being of others. Contradictions everythere!

Completely loaded statement. I've never known 9s to be concerned with the problems of others by definition. If anything the average 9s I've known have characteristically laughed off the problems that others present to them, as if they don't want to deal with them and simply pass them off as non-issues. This serves to emphasize your first point about not wanting their sense of internal psychic balance throttled too hard.

[Skepsis]

As a six, I do value trust. One of the things I like the least is when I tell someone something important and they go around telling others about it. This destroys my trust in them. It bothers me when I hear people talking about others when five minutes before they were chumming with them.

I can be emotionally needy at times, when I need to vent my feelings or talk about whatever topic is on my mind.

I used to have bad anxiety, by trying to do too much and please too many people, but I have been able to get it under control by taking it easy and trying to stay balanced. Internally, I worry, but no physical symptoms have manifested, I don't let it bother me.

[munenori2]

Being a 9 is about seeking peace and harmony generally speaking. It doesn't mean you avoid all conflict ever, because you're human and prodding people can be fun at times. It means you blend. You adjust. Not innately leader-y but when you do it's about everyone and you watch over them with care. Lazy mostly. It's about seeing the best in people and having a social cooperative perspective even if you're not outgoing.

[lunarpine]

It is said that they are like a "crown" of enneagram, the glue that holds community together but ... it is also said that they avoid self analysing which prevents them from growing. But how you can be so called diamond of enneagram without self developemend?

It’s called the crown of the enneagram because 9’s can, more than the other types, relate to all the types. This is why it can be hard for 9’s to address their problems simply because they often identify more with the other types than their own. A unhealthy nine may be completely disconnected from themself and the point is that it's hard to improve something you’re not in tune with.

Also, 9's do not want their inner stability to be affected or influenced by other people, but their purpose of life is to to help maintain the wholeness and well-being of others. Contradictions everythere!

This is a dilemma for 9’s. 9’s want to get along with others, but in reality you can’t get along with everyone if you want to address your own agenda.
Since 9’s easily tune into others feelings, if someone else is unstable, a nine may fail to separate the persons feeling from their own hence a nines inner stability may be affected.
Sometimes a nine stay at a safe distance from people by not truly connecting with them in fear of loosing themself. 9’s care a lot about other people but it's hard to truly care about someone if your not fully connected with them - this is why nines can come across as uncaring.

Or maybe you have some tips and tricks which helps to find out accurate type? I would be very glad if you share!

Not sure if this helps but from my experience as a nine, when I'm stressed and move towards 6, I get horrible anxiety and feel guilt instead of anger. I may only care about having people on my side and not so much about who they are. I get very clingy and I obsess over things that don't matter. When I'm healthy I am a lot more sturdy and feel more anger. I can be on my own side without withdrawing from people in relationships.

A tip is to read about enneagram 3 since that's what 6's move towards when stressed. If you're a six, you should be able to relate to enneagram 3.

[fen]

Hi there. I'm no expert on enneagram, but I personally self-typed as 6(w7) for a very long time because "I have anxiety". In truth, every type has anxeties, but the determining factor is where that anxiety stems from. For me, I found that my anxiety stems largely from feeling purposeless...feeling like I have no strong sense of self. I adapt to others almost to a fault. I'm hesitant to rock the boat. I feel like I'm stagnant, and get stuck in ruts where I close down and accomplish nothing. Most of all, I don't let myself feel angry much of the time. I don't notice that I'm angry -- it goes undetected. But then...after pressure builds up, I will eventually recognize this anger (sometimes after 10+ years of not expressing this anger) and I will blow. And when I blow, I feel guilty for it. So yes, I am a 9. But it took a long time to recognize this. Perhaps you relate to what I explained is true for me, but perhaps you don't. Just wanted to throw that out there.

It is said that they are like a "crown" of enneagram, the glue that holds community together but ... it is also said that they avoid self analysing which prevents them from growing. But how you can be so called diamond of enneagram without self developemend?

I don't think all 9s avoid self-analysis. I sure don't think I avoid it. I may fall into ruts where I temporarily go on "cruise control", feeling almost as if I cannot handle something, and so I kinda insulate myself from the outside world's expectations, feeling that I can protect myself until I feel I can make a decision on something or deal with a certain problem in the right way, when really this process of shutting the world out and convincing myself that I feel indifferent does nothing but prolong how long I have to deal with whatever it is that I'm closing down from.

I agree with lunarpine -- I think 9s relate to the other types well and that is probably why you have heard those kinds of descriptions.

I think that anyone of any type who is unhealthy will have trouble analyzing themselves, and it isn't just a 9 thing. I just think that 9s have a hard time telling who they are exactly because they relate to others so much...and they cannot pick the two apart. Perhaps it isn't that 9s are terrible at analyzing themselves. I think they recognize that they feel lost and identity-less...but the trouble comes in making decisions, because it is through decisions (To set a boundary or not...or...to be a proponent for this idea or that idea) that a person becomes more solid feeling. When someone has no boundaries, has no particular values: "I agree with this particular set of political/religious/anything views exclusively" and instead has values of "I see both sides here, and do not feel like I can make a decision" and feeling accepting of pretty much everyone's particular viewpoint, it makes a person (or at least me) feel like they are amorphous; like a cloud; not solid; fluffy.

I hope this makes sense.

]Also, 9's do not want their inner stability to be affected or influenced by other people, but their purpose of life is to to help maintain the wholeness and well-being of others. Contradictions everythere!

I think 9s just want to figure out who they are without outside influence. And so, by shutting others out, perhaps they can feel less like a mirror..and perhaps come out of that safe, quiet place inside, in a burst of color and fervor -- This is ME!

I actually don't know about the answer I came up with for the second part, but it just kinda came out so...haha.

Anyway, hope this sheds some light.

[Airman]

Hi domino,

I´m a 6, sexual subtype. I have the same problem, sometimes I have thought I was a 9 because I'm very lazy and calm most of the time. But the fixation with worrying, FUTURE things that may happen, all the anxiety characterize a 6. Because of strong Si, a 6 can be taken for a 9, because Si is an element which pushes one toward calm, comfort, lazyness, even speaking in a manner which sounds chilled out and not anxious.
Answer to your questions:

Is there anything that makes you angrier than someone turning on you that you've given your loyalty to and even if this happen, it's difficult for you to cut those people from your life?

R: Yes loyalty is very important to me. Yes it is hard for me to cut people from my life. For instance, I've been with a woman who has a serious alcohol problem like me, but unlike me she doesn't want to stop drinking. Because of this loyalty I feel it is my duty not to distance myself from her. It's a fanatical loyalty to those you really consider close and good friends. Hard to abandon them, especially in times they need.

Can you be over emotionally needy?
R: Yes, this is a basic trait of most 6s.


Do you fear something physical to happen or your anxiety and fear is more internal?
R: Much more internal. Sometimes it is simply unexplainable by reason. Anxiety just pops up seemingly without a cause. I have GAD (generalised anxiety disorder). It is, ironically, the same anxiety that drives 6s to implement, to achieve, to think, to DO things. I've found that if I kill this anxiety with medication then I get lazy and do nothing, then I feel weak and there is nothing more depressing than feeling weak for a sexual counterphobic 6.

Hope this helps somehow.

[fen]

I also meant to mention that if you are torn between 6 and 9, perhaps ask yourself if you are overly skeptical or overly trusting.

[Grizzly]

This is the best I've seen for 6/9 differences.

From Stackemup.net:

"As far as some more key differences, 6s care much more about what others think of them. 9s are less affected by people's opinions and less reactive and defensive in response to those opinions. They seem more unmoved as if it really doesn't matter, where sixes seem to have thinner-skin and a shorter fuse, as if assuming their lives will be negatively affected by the opinions that people hold of them. Both nines and sixes can be very passive-aggressive but sixes usually say they know they are being passive-aggressive...nines do it more unconsciously. Both phobic 6s and nines can look similar in their submissive affection towards a cause or 'father figure,' who, in turn, provides them with guidance and direction, but sixes get there through a projected feeling of hostility and oppression, and consequently a desire to rebel and vent that hostility. 9s, in contrast, get there through a fatalistic view of the world...and look for somebody "bigger" to subordinate themselves to and take over responsibility for key areas of their life, hence the 9's submission isn't being driven by the cynicism and mobilization of will against a 'nameless, faceless predator' that is fused into the submissiveness of phobic sixes...and while both types are in the relating triad, sixes have a whole cluster of reactivity around issues of ‘knowing/not knowing’ that nines don’t. ."

[Absurd]

[Airman]

6s are either doubtful or very decided to the point of being very stoic. A healthy 6 is sure of himself, sure of his role in society, sure of what he does, to sum up, sure of himself. 9s don't have an issue with doubt because they just follow the flow of events adapting without thinking so much about the consequences as 6s. A basic trait of 6s is DOUBT. They take a direction then question themselves if this is really right, many times, think things over, sometimes missing opportunities. Another basic trait is INSECURITY in one or more areas of life. For example a 6 may be very sure when doing his job, but insecure about how to deal with close relationships, or the opposite. When Counterphobic 6s may resemble 8s in their aggressive approach and conflict-seeking, but more passional, emotional than 8s. Most 6s are very emotional, almost like 4s, but they usually repress their true emotions and only show them to close trusted friends.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

It is said that they are like a "crown" of enneagram, the glue that holds community together but ... it is also said that they avoid self analysing which prevents them from growing. But how you can be so called diamond of enneagram without self developemend?
Also, 9's do not want their inner stability to be affected or influenced by other people, but their purpose of life is to to help maintain the wholeness and well-being of others. Contradictions everythere!

I don't see how it's that contradictory. It makes logical sense, if you are really focused on yourself and stuff it makes it hard to help others. You can tell when it appears somebody is "Helping" another but really they are only seeing how it effects them. When it's true help it has that giddy school girl ish feeling for the help-ee you know? Even if maybe the helper is sacrificing *too* much of themselves to help other people, but I think that's where subtle nuances come in.

If you want to find your type, look more for integration. Do other people like you more when you calm down (6 to 9 integration) or do they like you more when you are a preppy Hollywood cheerleader? (9 to 3 integration) I've found other people like me a lot more when I'm 3-ish but maybe that's because american society is always up 3s ass even if they are sociopathic killers lmao. I really don't know.

Man, take enneagram with a grain of salt. It's okay to enjoy it and find it useful but remember when it comes to spiritual growth, it's something that it takes a lot of people's eyes to judge you on. Because only God can judge you, yet in an ironic way *we* are all God. (Even Korpsey!) When you are repressing in your fears or when you are advancing, other people realize it... so just don't get hung up on any type or definition.

I don't think spirituality is as complicated as people make it. I think it's just spanking your own inner narcissism and realizing your immortal wholeness or something and resolving conflicts you have with others. Not necessarily being all lovey dovey, but just smoothing over conflicts and basking in your own hollywood brilliance or something. Other people will think you are an okay person as long as you aren't too cruel or abusive. And if they really like you, they will find excuses for that stuff too because that's kinda what love is but love is rare so hold onto if you find it.

[ashlesha]

9s merge and blend in and identify with others needs so they're the "crown of the enneagram" because they can soak up other types' desires and traits via this merging and blending thing. its really not that complicated? it doesn't mean they're KING of the enneagram lol

[blackburry]

Being a 9 is about seeking peace and harmony generally speaking. It doesn't mean you avoid all conflict ever, because you're human and prodding people can be fun at times. It means you blend. You adjust. Not innately leader-y but when you do it's about everyone and you watch over them with care. Lazy mostly. It's about seeing the best in people and having a social cooperative perspective even if you're not outgoing.

Swanky.
I WANT TO BE A 9.
This sounds comfy. and nice.





K, so 'ullo. I'm an E6w5.

[Raver]

I will answer all of the questions as I'm either a 9w1 or 6w7.

Is there anything that makes you angrier than someone turning on you that you've given your loyalty to and even if this happen, it's difficult for you to cut those people from your life?

Definitely, I think this is one of the top things that would make me angry. I guess I would put down lying about something to avoid conflict and due to cowardice would make me more angrier though.

Can you be over emotionally needy?

Sometimes, but overall I don't think this would fit me.

Do you fear something physical to happen or your anxiety and fear is more internal?

I would say that most of my anxiety and fear is internal.

It is said that they are like a "crown" of enneagram, the glue that holds community together but ... it is also said that they avoid self analysing which prevents them from growing. But how you can be so called diamond of enneagram without self developemend?

I feel I tend to go through long stretches of time in zombie mode where I'm completely unaware of my problems. Then I have a eureka A-HA moment where everything makes perfect sense. Once this happens, my life improves dramatically and I begin to finally progress at a steady rate.

[munenori2]

Swanky.
I WANT TO BE A 9.
This sounds comfy. and nice.





K, so 'ullo. I'm an E6w5.

It's pretty amazing. Being a 6 can't be all that bad though, right?

[Creepy-male]

Being a 9 is about seeking peace and harmony generally speaking. It doesn't mean you avoid all conflict ever, because you're human and prodding people can be fun at times. It means you blend. You adjust. Not innately leader-y but when you do it's about everyone and you watch over them with care. Lazy mostly. It's about seeing the best in people and having a social cooperative perspective even if you're not outgoing.

 

Type Nine in Brief

Nines are accepting, trusting, and stable. They are usually creative, optimistic, and supportive, but can also be too willing to go along with others to keep the peace. They want everything to go smoothly and be without conflict, but they can also tend to be complacent, simplifying problems and minimizing anything upsetting. They typically have problems with inertia and stubbornness. At their Best: indomitable and all-embracing, they are able to bring people together and heal conflicts.

Basic Fear: Of loss and separation
Basic Desire: To have inner stability "peace of mind"
Enneagram Nine with an Eight-Wing: "The Referee"
Enneagram Nine with a One-Wing: "The Dreamer"

Key Motivations: Want to create harmony in their environment, to avoid conflicts and tension, to preserve things as they are, to resist whatever would upset or disturb them.
The Meaning of the Arrows (in brief)

When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), complacent Nines suddenly become anxious and worried at Six. However, when moving in their Direction of Integration (growth), slothful, self-neglecting Nines become more self-developing and energetic, like healthy Threes. For more information, click here.

Examples: Abraham Lincoln, Joseph Campbell, Carl Jung, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford, Queen Elizabeth II, Princess Grace, Walter Cronkite, George Lucas, Walt Disney, John Kennedy, Jr., Sophia Loren, Geena Davis, Lisa Kudrow, Kevin Costner, Keanu Reeves, Woody Harrelson, Ron Howard, Matthew Broderick, Ringo Starr, Whoopi Goldberg, Janet Jackson, Nancy Kerrigan, Jim Hensen, Marc Chagall, Norman Rockwell, "Edith Bunker" (Archie Bunker), and "Marge Simpson" (The Simpsons).
Type Nine Overview

We have called personality type Nine The Peacemaker because no type is more devoted to the quest for internal and external peace for themselves and others. They are typically “spiritual seekers” who have a great yearning for connection with the cosmos, as well as with other people. They work to maintain their peace of mind just as they work to establish peace and harmony in their world. The issues encountered in the Nine are fundamental to all psychological and spiritual work—being awake versus falling asleep to our true nature; presence versus entrancement, openness versus blockage, tension versus relaxation, peace versus pain, union versus separation.

Ironically, for a type so oriented to the spiritual world, Nine is the center of the Instinctive Center, and is the type that is potentially most grounded in the physical world and in their own bodies. The contradiction is resolved when we realize that Nines are either in touch with their instinctive qualities and have tremendous elemental power and personal magnetism, or they are cut off from their instinctual strengths and can be disengaged and remote, even lightweight.

To compensate for being out of touch with their instinctual energies, Nines also retreat into their minds and their emotional fantasies. (This is why Nines can sometimes misidentify themselves as Fives and Sevens, “head types,” or as Twos and Fours, “feeling types.”) Furthermore, when their instinctive energies are out of balance, Nines use these very energies against themselves, damming up their own power so that everything in their psyches becomes static and inert. When their energy is not used, it stagnates like a spring-fed lake that becomes so full that its own weight dams up the springs that feed it. When Nines are in balance with their Instinctive Center and its energy, however, they are like a great river, carrying everything along with it effortlessly.

We have sometimes called the Nine the crown of the Enneagram because it is at the top of the symbol and because it seems to include the whole of it. Nines can have the strength of Eights, the sense of fun and adventure of Sevens, the dutifulness of Sixes, the intellectualism of Fives, the creativity of Fours, the attractiveness of Threes, the generosity of Twos, and the idealism of Ones. However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity.

Ironically, therefore, the only type the Nine is not like is the Nine itself. Being a separate self, an individual who must assert herself against others, is terrifying to Nines. They would rather melt into someone else or quietly follow their idyllic daydreams.

Red, a nationally known business consultant, comments on this tendency:

“I am aware of focusing on other people, wondering what they are like, how and where they live, etc. In a relationship with others, I often give up my own agenda in favor of the other person’s. I have to be on guard about giving in to other’s demands and discounting my own legitimate needs.”

Nines demonstrate the universal temptation to ignore the disturbing aspects of life and to seek some degree of peace and comfort by “numbing out.” They respond to pain and suffering by attempting to live in a state of premature peacefulness, whether it is in a state of false spiritual attainment, or in more gross denial. More than any other type, Nines demonstrate the tendency to run away from the paradoxes and tensions of life by attempting to transcend them or be seeking find simple and painless solutions to their problems.

To emphasize the pleasant in life is not a bad thing, of course—it is simply a limited and limiting approach to life. If Nines see the silver lining in every cloud as a way of protecting themselves from the cold and rain, other types have their distorting viewpoints, too. For example, Fours focus on their own woundedness and victimization, Ones on what is wrong with how things are, and so forth. By contrast, Nines tend to focus on the “bright side of life” so that their peace of mind will not be shaken. But rather than deny the dark side of life, what Nines must understand is that all of the perspectives presented by the other types are true, too. Nines must resist the urge to escape into “premature Buddhahood” or the “white light” of the Divine and away from the mundane world. They must remember that “the only way out is through.”

(from The Wisdom of the Enneagram, p. 316-317)

read more at http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ty...p#.UTqgVjeILK4

- Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
Sun Tzu

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

i was born a 9. i remember my mom told me when i came out of the womb i just sat there and i didn't cry (much) or want much attention i just sort of ... sat there like a statue ever calm. i was trolled so much in high school probably because people wanted to make sure i was alive. i didn't want or need much i used simple statements. until i repressed things so much slowly over time that i turned into a nervous wreck that couldn't really accomplish or do anything. lmao 6 disintegration hahahahaha.

"get a job" (don't care what's the point)
"get a romantic partner (don't care what's the point)
"face your fears and WIN" (don't care what's the point)
"somebody would try to explain the point to me" (how boring, there has to be a better point....)

i yawned a lot and everything always felt easy and i hated all conflict and tension and weirdness/aggression and loudness so much that i just ran away from the least little bit of conflict.

i am definitely integrating now though, and you can feel the difference, you just feel more 'here' or something.

anyways being integrated feels like your complement double half where you are your peaceful natural state but in a way that isn't annoying to others; you just are so in tuned with how other people see you realistically that you don't retreat into any psychological fantasies and think they are real. it's an interesting way to be. and people are really touched by my genuine compassion, kindness and peacemaking abilities.

[Galen]

9s merge and blend in and identify with others needs so they're the "crown of the enneagram" because they can soak up other types' desires and traits via this merging and blending thing. its really not that complicated? it doesn't mean they're KING of the enneagram lol

This sounds roughly right, but I still think calling them the "crown" has some sort of unintended emotional connotation of superiority, especially since none of the other types have such direct attachments to items of well-understood symbolic meaning.

[epheme]

I know these questions are for 6's and I'm a 9 but I'm gonna answer these too, for perspective.

Is there anything that makes you angrier than someone turning on you that you've given your loyalty to and even if this happen, it's difficult for you to cut those people from your life?

Yes, other things definitely make me angrier than this (this situation would make me sad and disappointed more than angry, at the other person and with myself). And no, it is not difficult for me to cut those people out of my life.

Can you be over emotionally needy?

No, not really.

Do you fear something physical to happen or your anxiety and fear is more internal?

I wouldn't really say that I live with a lot of fear. I do get anxiety at times when I am under stress but this is rare. When I was younger I had horrible anxiety but I somehow "outgrew" this.

[Adam Strange]

This post doesn't actually address the OP's question, but it does show an e6 and e9 together (they are sisters) and this might help in distinguishing the two types.

One caveat: The E6 is an ESI and the e9 looks like an SEI to me. If she isn't an SEI (and I'm not great at identifying Alphas), she's certainly a type that uses Ti.



*EDIT* If the e9 isn't an SEI, she could be an LSI. Her Ti is so apparent to me, but I don't think I've ever seen an LSI e9, although they are supposedly the second most common e-type for that LSI's. The LSI's that I've known have been 6w5, I think.

But that e6 ESI. Lol. Sooooo e6 ESI.

[SGF]

Is there anything that makes you angrier than someone turning on you that you've given your loyalty to and even if this happen, it's difficult for you to cut those people from your life?

Yes, I hate being told what I can or cannot do, controlled by others is a big no-no. I ABSOLUTELY have to remain in control of myself and my autonomy must not be questioned or I'll get seriously angry and forceful. Whatever is in the way will be made to get out of the way or I'll fucking crush the person any means necessary including physical violence. This is non negotiable, there can be 0 compromise.

Can you be over emotionally needy?

No. I'm mostly independent. Especially when it comes to dealing with my own emotions I rarely if ever share.

Do you fear something physical to happen or your anxiety and fear is more internal?

I'm not that connected to my anxiety, more-so my anger. I mainly get anxious in social situations because idk what to do often.

this always sounds 8w7 when I write it out.. but yeah. Autonomy is the most important thing for me.

EDIT: I'm possibly type 8 SP...

[marooned]

I don't agree that 9s don't self-analyze or that their purpose in life is to maintain the wholeness and well being of others.

Nine imo is self-forgetting in the way it shifts its focus and attention, which is often away from the most pressing internal thing at the time. They can produce wells of deep insight into themselves, and often do, but it's when they do or don't do this, and how they manage to "never" be able to use their own insight about themselves productively, that is relevant.

I would call it a priority distortion. Whatever should be prioritized according to the 9's needs is the thing the 9 cannot get to at that time and instead will find a different focus that is wholly unsuited for the present needs, one that preserves their state of lifeless sloth. So in a way they forget themselves every moment while never forgetting themselves at all. There is another layer of awareness watching, noting what they are doing as they are doing it, but it isn't enough to break a lifelong pattern of being subject to inertia.

The inertia is heavy, and you can feel it all the time, and the suffering of that also drives the low energy state as when one is bogged down in misery they don't have the escape energy needed to get out of inertia. So why not dissociate into another world in which none of your current problems exist? It feels so much more stimulating, almost like one is alive, even while this constant pattern leads only to oblivion and eventually even ones fantasy worlds begin to die, because no matter what you nurture within them you still do not nurture yourself. The self is smothered. At this point one may indulge in the self-destruction, because it feels chaotic and that feels stimulating again.

Anyway, the 9 seeks a oneness with all things supposedly and it fears separation or annihilation. It really doesn't have anything to do with maintaining the wholeness and well-being of others. One doesn't bliss out on spiritual opioids for others. It's all very self-involved and self-indulgent. And when the nine merges with another or with something it is a way to again leave themselves out in the cold, to dwell in a false sense of oneness and to want to believe the lie. It's another way of dissociating. But it feels warm so you can forget you are dying.

Really it is the abandoning of oneself over and over, and self-abandoning is a better term than self-forgetting imo. The fear of being abandoned by others is only one projecting what they do to themselves.

I think disintegration to 6 happens when the sloth state is so out of control and one's constant need to dissociate from reality so intense, that the constant negligence of oneself begins catching up to them. So many priorities have gone unattended to for so long that it's unmanageable and at the point where one can't function. This is when sharp panic can set in and anxiety becomes a rather constant state. It's the self literally screaming about the urgency of its long neglected needs. The priority distortion problem however makes it feel like one cannot choose so one may sit there futilely in the panic. And usually there is a gateway somewhere that will lead back into dissociation away from the horrifying reality.

Next day ETA: One thing that helped me type myself as a 9 was realizing the high importance of escapism in my life, which started out as a childhood coping mechanism to escape an abusive home life. I could go somewhere else in my mind, somewhere where none of it was happening, and as a child I had no idea this was a coping mechanism or that this great thing that was saving me would later become my prison. I think in a way every enneagram type is a prison, and prisons for yourself are not built overnight. You build them throughout your childhood, so the evidence is sitting right there in the past. I learned that I don't matter because my dad was a narcissist and only he mattered in our family. Since my parents rather neglected my needs as though they don't matter, it became my default to do the same (without even having to think about it). It's part of the weaving of the worlds in my mind I can escape to. I don't matter and there's nothing I can do about my situation, but there is somewhere else I can go where no one can touch me and where the only one with the power to harm me is myself (except for the problem of how I can't stop harming myself).

Basically I see the main issue with type 9 as dissociation. Something in the past created a dissociation mechanism that became the strongest coping mechanism in life. It leaves them fragmented, which is why for instance my fantasy worlds don't truly nourish me, because the part of me needing the nourishment has been kind of partitioned away. The need to merge or fuse, is the need to merge or fuse back with the dissociated self, but instead one keeps going to these "substitutes" that feel like they should help but they can't because they aren't addressing the dissociation problem, they aren't merging the fragmented psyche back together. It's all projected outward when it's an internal merging needed. But the break happened so early in life that it's not immediately apparent this is what's wrong and when I was younger my powers of fantasy were much stronger because I was less dead and so it didn't really feel so much like death. But eventually the beautiful veil fell off.

It reminds me of this video of a lone lioness who would adopt baby prey animals. For the prey animal an adult is there providing affection (perhaps the same adult who killed its mother) and it all feels like the things the baby needs except for this one problem: the lone lioness has no milk, she provides no nourishment, and so the baby animal is slowly dying. But how it must feel being in this relationship with that lioness is like how the 9 is in a relationship with its substitutes for love/connection (it feels like love but it is actually a slow death because these substitutes can provide no real nourishment). And eventually all the substitutes start looking the same, they all look like death, and without the beautiful veil you can't really deny any longer the things you merge with are draining your very being from you (it's all the black hole of oblivion and the pull is so strong). But in this sick way you keep doing it because that's how you learned to treat yourself from a very early age, it was the only normal, and in the beginning you did it to save yourself. Behind every enneatype there is a tragedy.

I suppose another thing I think about the enneagram is that the type you are should reflect what hurts the most. Although people will have aspects of all the types, the core type is the core of ego suffering. The core type causes a lifelong pattern in which you create your own pain in a particular and recurring way. The answer is at the heart of suffering. I like the tritype system, as I feel one should have a core of suffering in each triad (which type in each triad is reflecting a pattern of suffering in life), and then look at all three and ask which one is overriding the others the most. The least applicable triad may become apparent by being one that you keep changing your mind about which of the three types it is (or at least that's how I feel about the head triad). It has the weakest suffering signal and is therefore the most difficult to pin down.

[Moonbeaux Rainfox]

I don't agree that 9s don't self-analyze or that their purpose in life is to maintain the wholeness and well being of others.

Nine imo is self-forgetting in the way it shifts its focus and attention, which is often away from the most pressing internal thing at the time. They can produce wells of deep insight into themselves, and often do, but it's when they do or don't do this, and how they manage to "never" be able to use their own insight about themselves productively, that is relevant.

I would call it a priority distortion. Whatever should be just prioritized according to the 9's needs is the thing the 9 cannot get to at that time and instead will find a different focus that is wholly unsuited for the present needs, one that preserves their state of lifeless sloth. So in a way they forget themselves every moment while never forgetting themselves at all. There is another layer of awareness watching, noting what they are doing as they are doing it, but it isn't enough to break a lifelong pattern of being subject to inertia.

The inertia is heavy, and you can feel it all the time, and the suffering of that also drives the low energy state as when one is bogged down in misery they don't have the escape energy needed to get out of inertia. So why not dissociate into another world in which none of your current problems exist? It feels so much more simulating, almost like one is alive, even while this constant pattern leads only to oblivion and eventually even ones fantasy worlds begin to die, because no matter what you nurture within them you still do not nurture yourself. The self is smothered. At this point one may indulge in the self-destruction, because it feels chaotic and that feels stimulating again.

Anyway, the 9 seeks a oneness with all things supposedly and it fears separation or annihilation. It really doesn't have anything to do with maintaining the wholeness and well-being of others. One doesn't bliss out on spiritual opioids for others. It's all very self-involved and self-indulgent. And when the nine merges with another or with something it is a way to again leave themselves out in the cold, to dwell in a false sense of oneness and to want to believe the lie. It's another way of dissociating. But it feels warm so you can forget you are dying.

Really it is the abandoning of oneself over and over, and self-abandoning is a better term than self-forgetting imo. The fear of being abandoned by others is only one projecting what they do to themselves.

The sheer irony of this. Esp. with the current context.

[Adam Strange]

I don't agree that 9s don't self-analyze or that their purpose in life is to maintain the wholeness and well being of others.

Nine imo is self-forgetting in the way it shifts its focus and attention, which is often away from the most pressing internal thing at the time. They can produce wells of deep insight into themselves, and often do, but it's when they do or don't do this, and how they manage to "never" be able to use their own insight about themselves productively, that is relevant.

I would call it a priority distortion. Whatever should be just prioritized according to the 9's needs is the thing the 9 cannot get to at that time and instead will find a different focus that is wholly unsuited for the present needs, one that preserves their state of lifeless sloth. So in a way they forget themselves every moment while never forgetting themselves at all. There is another layer of awareness watching, noting what they are doing as they are doing it, but it isn't enough to break a lifelong pattern of being subject to inertia.

The inertia is heavy, and you can feel it all the time, and the suffering of that also drives the low energy state as when one is bogged down in misery they don't have the escape energy needed to get out of inertia. So why not dissociate into another world in which none of your current problems exist? It feels so much more simulating, almost like one is alive, even while this constant pattern leads only to oblivion and eventually even ones fantasy worlds begin to die, because no matter what you nurture within them you still do not nurture yourself. The self is smothered. At this point one may indulge in the self-destruction, because it feels chaotic and that feels stimulating again.

Anyway, the 9 seeks a oneness with all things supposedly and it fears separation or annihilation. It really doesn't have anything to do with maintaining the wholeness and well-being of others. One doesn't bliss out on spiritual opioids for others. It's all very self-involved and self-indulgent. And when the nine merges with another or with something it is a way to again leave themselves out in the cold, to dwell in a false sense of oneness and to want to believe the lie. It's another way of dissociating. But it feels warm so you can forget you are dying.

Really it is the abandoning of oneself over and over, and self-abandoning is a better term than self-forgetting imo. The fear of being abandoned by others is only one projecting what they do to themselves.

ETA I think disintegration to 6 happens when the sloth state is so out of control and one's constant need to dissociate from reality so intense, that the constant negligence of oneself begins catching up to them. So many priorities have gone unattended to for so long that it's unmanageable and at the point where one can't function. This is when sharp panic can set in and anxiety becomes a rather constant state. It's the self literally screaming about the urgency of its long neglected needs. The priority distortion problem however makes it feel like one cannot choose so one may sit there futility in the panic. And usually there is a gateway somewhere that will lead back into dissociation away from the horrifying reality.

Fantastic analysis, @inumbra.

[Aster]

I don't agree that 9s don't self-analyze or that their purpose in life is to maintain the wholeness and well being of others.

Nine imo is self-forgetting in the way it shifts its focus and attention, which is often away from the most pressing internal thing at the time. They can produce wells of deep insight into themselves, and often do, but it's when they do or don't do this, and how they manage to "never" be able to use their own insight about themselves productively, that is relevant.

I would call it a priority distortion. Whatever should be prioritized according to the 9's needs is the thing the 9 cannot get to at that time and instead will find a different focus that is wholly unsuited for the present needs, one that preserves their state of lifeless sloth. So in a way they forget themselves every moment while never forgetting themselves at all. There is another layer of awareness watching, noting what they are doing as they are doing it, but it isn't enough to break a lifelong pattern of being subject to inertia.

The inertia is heavy, and you can feel it all the time, and the suffering of that also drives the low energy state as when one is bogged down in misery they don't have the escape energy needed to get out of inertia. So why not dissociate into another world in which none of your current problems exist? It feels so much more stimulating, almost like one is alive, even while this constant pattern leads only to oblivion and eventually even ones fantasy worlds begin to die, because no matter what you nurture within them you still do not nurture yourself. The self is smothered. At this point one may indulge in the self-destruction, because it feels chaotic and that feels stimulating again.

Anyway, the 9 seeks a oneness with all things supposedly and it fears separation or annihilation. It really doesn't have anything to do with maintaining the wholeness and well-being of others. One doesn't bliss out on spiritual opioids for others. It's all very self-involved and self-indulgent. And when the nine merges with another or with something it is a way to again leave themselves out in the cold, to dwell in a false sense of oneness and to want to believe the lie. It's another way of dissociating. But it feels warm so you can forget you are dying.

Really it is the abandoning of oneself over and over, and self-abandoning is a better term than self-forgetting imo. The fear of being abandoned by others is only one projecting what they do to themselves.

I think disintegration to 6 happens when the sloth state is so out of control and one's constant need to dissociate from reality so intense, that the constant negligence of oneself begins catching up to them. So many priorities have gone unattended to for so long that it's unmanageable and at the point where one can't function. This is when sharp panic can set in and anxiety becomes a rather constant state. It's the self literally screaming about the urgency of its long neglected needs. The priority distortion problem however makes it feel like one cannot choose so one may sit there futilely in the panic. And usually there is a gateway somewhere that will lead back into dissociation away from the horrifying reality.

Next day ETA: One thing that helped me type myself as a 9 was realizing the high importance of escapism in my life, which started out as a childhood coping mechanism to escape an abusive home life. I could go somewhere else in my mind, somewhere where none of it was happening, and as a child I had no idea this was a coping mechanism or that this great thing that was saving me would later become my prison. I think in a way every enneagram type is a prison, and prisons for yourself are not built overnight. You build them throughout your childhood, so the evidence is sitting right there in the past. I learned that I don't matter because my dad was a narcissist and only he mattered in our family. Since my parents rather neglected my needs as though they don't matter, it became my default to do the same (without even having to think about it). It's part of the weaving of the worlds in my mind I can escape to. I don't matter and there's nothing I can do about my situation, but there is somewhere else I can go where no one can touch me and where the only one with the power to harm me is myself (except for the problem of how I can't stop harming myself).

Basically I see the main issue with type 9 as dissociation. Something in the past created a dissociation mechanism that became the strongest coping mechanism in life. It leaves them fragmented, which is why for instance my fantasy worlds don't truly nourish me, because the part of me needing the nourishment has been kind of partitioned away. The need to merge or fuse, is the need to merge or fuse back with the dissociated self, but instead one keeps going to these "substitutes" that feel like they should help but they can't because they aren't addressing the dissociation problem, they aren't merging the fragmented psyche back together. It's all projected outward when it's an internal merging needed. But the break happened so early in life that it's not immediately apparent this is what's wrong and when I was younger my powers of fantasy were much stronger because I was less dead and so it didn't really feel so much like death. But eventually the beautiful veil fell off.

It reminds me of this video of a lone lioness who would adopt baby prey animals. For the prey animal an adult is there providing affection (perhaps the same adult who killed its mother) and it all feels like the things the baby needs except for this one problem: the lone lioness has no milk, she provides no nourishment, and so the baby animal is slowly dying. But how it must feel being in this relationship with that lioness is like how the 9 is in a relationship with its substitutes for love/connection (it feels like love but it is actually a slow death because these substitutes can provide no real nourishment). And eventually all the substitutes start looking the same, they all look like death, and without the beautiful veil you can't really deny any longer the things you merge with are draining your very being from you (it's all the black hole of oblivion and the pull is so strong). But in this sick way you keep doing it because that's how you learned to treat yourself from a very early age, it was the only normal, and in the beginning you did it to save yourself. Behind every enneatype there is a tragedy.

I suppose another thing I think about the enneagram is that the type you are should reflect what hurts the most. Although people will have aspects of all the types, the core type is the core of ego suffering. The core type causes a lifelong pattern in which you create your own pain in a particular and recurring way. The answer is at the heart of suffering. I like the tritype system, as I feel one should have a core of suffering in each triad (which type in each triad is reflecting a pattern of suffering in life), and then look at all three and ask which one is overriding the others the most. The least applicable triad may become apparent by being one that you keep changing your mind about which of the three types it is (or at least that's how I feel about the head triad). It has the weakest suffering signal and is therefore the most difficult to pin down.

I’m most likely a 9 and this is so relatable.

[marooned]

Sigh. I've been reconsidering my tritype again to some combination of 1, 4 and 6. I was refreshing myself on tritype descriptions and 946 doesn't account for my intense inner critic that can be incredibly harsh, my critical tendencies in general, the argumentative streak that reveals itself more frequently than the we're-so-peaceful-all-the-time 9 descriptions often suggest. However, I cannot be both 9 and 1, and I wouldn't really type myself as 1 first. Sometimes I've even considered 8 due to the argumentative streak and need to debate and win that arises sometimes, as well as the need to shield my vulnerability and not show weakness. That said, I consider myself mostly a coward and weak person. It really depends on my mood as I kind of can oscillate between this teary "victim" (shamefully childish, whiny and pathetic) and then this more argumentative critic (hiding all vulnerability though at the same time fearing losing the argument or becoming emotional), and then other times I am detached and it's as though I feel nothing at all (this often happens when someone else is emotionally vulnerable--I can openly empathize with animals but not so much with people and it's because I feel emotionally safe with animals). Anyway, the instinct triad is clearly an inner disaster. Perhaps a bomb went off in there.

Not to say I don't find 946 descriptions highly relateable. One issue though is I do have access to my anger. It's not really like a powerful anger. Frustration however isn't uncommon. I have some difficulty with being a hot head at times or generally emotionally volatile.

"The 461 tends to be very critical of themselves to avoid being criticized," says one description. That is rather fitting. I always want to one-up the feared audience in criticizing myself internally. Their criticisms can't hurt me then because I have already outdone them all. Although I always like to preempt painful emotions by experiencing them early... so for instance if I fear (*know* it cannot be baseless) I will lose something in the future I will start grieving it now (or soon, I'll put it off a bit which is usually doubling as a preparation period - but I want the bulk of it processed before the loss hits), so when the loss comes it won't gut me so badly.

Anyway, I am now taking over the thread with my narcissism (and that right there, that constant need for disclaimers is the superego needing to be in there pointing out the "bad" thing I am doing).