SEE EII in relationships
Anyone experienced this?
I've been dating an SEE for a few months now and find that we are eerily compatible and squash our conflicts quite easily and naturally. We're both Sx/sp so I think that helps. I was just wondering how the supervision manifests and what problems SEE/EII relationships face
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
By compatible I mean that our personalities are very complementary and what someone else would find annoying or too much about our behaviour, we find adorable or not as serious.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
I was married to my Supervisor for many years. I'm 4D Te and she's 3D Te, she's 4D Si and I'm Si-Polr.
We made a lot of money (Te) and she basically had free rein for decorating the house (Si), and health was her responsibility (Si).
Her father was LSE, so she had some experience living with a Te-dom, and my father was SLI, so I had some experience living with an SLI.
When I met her, and we got married, I was the happiest guy in the world. We were equals in attractiveness, in earning power, in intelligence, in social status, in world view, and in our general attitudes about life. We never argued. We never fought. We almost never disagreed.
However.......
One day, when the kid was a teenager, I came home and there was a moving van in front of the house. She was leaving, and I was clueless. I still loved and admired her, as the Supervisee tends to do.
I have 1D Fi and she has 2D Fi, and our marriage was chilly from the start and sexless very soon thereafter. Mixing Erotic axis' is a huge mistake. (Aggressor/Victim does not cross well to Caregiver/Infantile.) Furthermore, no one was covering the Fi part of the marriage, and with her being my Supervisor, she eventually decided that I was an idiot and she wanted out.
@Shytan, in your case, you have 4D Fi and the SEE has 3D Fi. The SEE is 4D Se and you are Se PoLR. Both of you are superb at moderating the feelings in a relationship, and this can feel great. Probably it is similar to the feeling I got when I realized that, between my wife and I, we were making more money than we could spend.
This should be fantastic, right? We're both great at something that we both value. However, this is not a balanced relationship.
You have 1D Te and the SEE has 2D Te. This tells you that financial problems are baked into your future. You don't know how to earn money, and the SEE is about 10X better at spending money than they are at earning it. Maybe 100X. Furthermore, the SEE will be able to exert Se over you in order to spend every cent, and there is no way you can counter this. When the Supervisor is around, the Supervisee is ON THEIR TERRITORY.
I can't emphasize that last statement enough. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO INFLUENCE THE SEE WHEN YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED TO DO SO.* Supervision is not an equal partnership.
However, I can't tell you what to do. All I can do is to give you the facts, as I have experienced them, and then you can make up your mind from there.
*
Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-19-2022 at 03:02 PM.
So what you're saying is the primary problem in the relationship would be in the financial sector?Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Also, could you expound on the Erotic axis thing specifically on the SEE aggressor/EII infantile basis?
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Yes, @Shytan. Re-read my post, since I've added some material in a spoiler. Personally, I think this will be your future, no matter how friendly it seems right now.
Other problems (aside from being broke forever, and most likely getting into increasingly deeper debt as time goes on) you will see are
1. The J/P divide. You believe in planning a future, the SEE believes in watching the parade go by. You might not think that's a big deal, but IT'S A VERY FUCKING BIG DEAL. Eventually, you might get tired of saving dollars in your cookie jar against a rainy day, only to discover that the SEE spent the money on a gift to his other GF. But hey, he'll get more because........magic bullshit.
2. SEEs are better at bullshitting than I am, and are worse at actually making their promises come true, and I'm not great. Don't say I didn't warn you.
3. Really. YOU CAN'T INFLUENCE YOUR SUPERVISOR. Now think about what life will be like with a capricious spender who doesn't stop when you tell them to. An LSE, in contrast, would rather cut their arm off than have you be mad at them. I swear to god, this is true. I've seen it. LSE can be assholes, but they know they are assholes and they see the EII's love as their only hope for salvation.
I've been with a Caregiver (not a good match), and the sex was boring. And I mean, boring. I stayed in the marriage because I'd made a promise "for better or for worse." Well, I got "worse", but I kept my promise.
I shouldn't have.
I've been with several Aggressors (LSIs and ESIs) and the sex with them is not even on the same level. I'm not necessarily talking about fireworks, but rather, I'm talking about the little things that make all the difference. A look, a touch.
I can't really describe it, but I know it when I experience it.
I have an Infantile LII sister who fell in love with an EIE Victim. She said that he was the one BF out of all of them who really understood her. But she didn't marry him because, she said, they'd have killed each other.
Instead, she married an LSE Caregiver. She once told me that sex with him was on a different level than it was with any of her other BFs. She said that he made her reach heights that she didn't know she had. Or something like that.
Wait before I finish reading the whole thing, do you think that all SEEs cheat? (referring to 'other gf')
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
No all SEE don't cheat like that.
But, platonic-ness pisses me off when my SEE talks about this other person that he considers his daughter, but she isn't his daughter and I refuse to grant that as a real relationship.
He fixates on her a lot, and it's entirely just stupid SEE behavior, which in this case only started in the last 7 years. She is a troubled married kid, in her mid to late twenties. SEE wants me to text her too, ugh no.
He is faithful to me physically at least. He has bought her stuff though. He think she needs a father figure in her life. Idiocy to me. We have 4 kids that need him more than she does, duh.
Then this is more likely not a supervision relation..
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
No, @Shytan, I don't think that all SEEs cheat. In my estimation, cheating is a cry for a kind of attention that the cheater is not getting within the relationship. It can happen to anyone, but it doesn't have to happen to everyone, either.
Neither my ex-wife nor I ever considered cheating within our dysfunctional relationship, but the LSI had some straying problems. I, personally, don't cheat as soon as a relationship turns serious, but I've had two GFs at the same time when I wasn't serious about either of them. Your mileage may vary, and so might the SEEs. Just look at Trump.
Here's a link to a site that talks about "bids for attention". https://www.gottman.com/blog/want-to...ntion-to-bids/
Also, here: https://www.gottman.com/blog/an-intr...ids-and-trust/
If a person doesn't have fantastic relationship skills, and if that person isn't getting the very specific kind of attention that they need from a spouse, then they will do something which WILL get the spouse's attention. Like cheating. It's a bad and stupid bid for attention, but a lot of people are not well-educated in respectable behavior and/or are stupid.
This, in my opinion, is a very good reason for restricting your dating to a Dual. Not all Duals are great, but you and your Dual are the same person sharing THE SAME VALUES, so if you are asking yourself how you can expect a person to respond to your silly bids for attention for the rest of their life, the answer is that what is fundamentally valued by one Dual is also fundamentally valued by the other.
When you have been together for eight years and you know everything there is to know about the other person, but you need to know if they still will be there if you need them for support, so you tell them "Hey, look at that squirrel!", you will want them to positively respond to you and look at the squirrel, not tell you "Don't bother me right now. I'm texting to someone I barely know."
Honestly, I believe that only Duals have the power to maintain the other person's interest over time. I might be wrong, but I know that most non-Duals don't have this ability. With non-Duals, it's two years for a bad ITR, and four years for a reasonably good ITR.
You might not share social status or height or attractiveness with a Dual, but you do share values. Unlike with people in other Quadras.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-19-2022 at 03:10 PM.
Read up. My SLI Supervisor wife and I were eerily compatible and we squashed our conflicts quite easily and naturally.
It all depends on the individuals. Read up, read up.
I think this is his way of telling you in a clear way that he's not getting the attention from you that he needs.
You might need to apply some intelligent advice to your guy.
Hopefully, he didn't buy her stuff using the money you saved in the cookie jar.
I think that SEEs might have an xxxp problem, in the sense that they see a parade going by, and before you know it, they have abandoned their jobs and are leading that parade out of town.
They really need someone to clearly explain to them the probable consequences of their present actions.
@Shytan, ILIs can affect an SEE, but probably no one else can. For comparison, I don't listen to anyone (my SLI ex told me this many times), but I do find that I listen to and (usually) obey my ESI Duals. I can't explain why I do it. I don't even always WANT to do it, but I do.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-19-2022 at 03:11 PM.
NOOOOOO you have to feel uncomfortable around your supervisor, that's how ITR works! You are doomed to a terrible relationship you are just fooling yourself!
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
When I first arrived at this forum and said that I was an LIE and my ex-wife was an SLI, people told me that no one could be in a relationship with a Supervisor, much less be married to them for years.NOOOOOO you have to feel uncomfortable around your supervisor, that's how ITR works! You are doomed to a terrible relationship you are just fooling yourself!
Well, I'm here to tell you that it can be done. It can be done if you are willing to shut half of yourself up in the basement and ignore the muffled screaming you hear from behind the door.
its interesting u say that bc i recall reading that u need to shut off the unvalued functions in order to get along with a dual
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
In my case, that would be Ne.
I only use my 4D unvalued Ne for joking, and for going endlessly wrong. What I've seen is that ESIs hate indecision and they force me to stop screwing around with endless possibilities and settle on one single outcome. Which actually is very constructive for my life, so I welcome it. No screaming involved.
First off people are not attracted to inter type relationships; they are attracted to other people.
And about EII being in a log term relationship with SEE I can see this as being highly unsatisfying.
I generally like planned actions. “How much are we willing to spend on a bed” not “we’re going to change out our bed and go buy another one”
I think the structure would kill the expansive nature of SE-E, and it would frustrate me.
I’m not as energetic, as visual, as carefree and let it be. I think on deeper level of issues and I often want to discuss them and generally I find that SEE don’t think on the same plane level. They don’t let their thoughts wonder in deeper directions like mine tend to do. Esoteric conversation with them are not as satisfying as they are with LSE honestly.
I have previously been made upset by their lack of timeliness. Taking on a lot like 4 dogs and wondering how they manage the chaos. I don’t do chaos and not even controlled chaos. I like calm serene pleasant easy and comfortable.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2022 at 07:02 PM.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
With that being said here’s one of INFJ and ESFP
https://youtu.be/drS33jgrbmc
His responses make me uncomfortable to a very new degree of uncomfortable but you know they are still together.
I can see why EII would be attracted to them initially-the same reasons we are attracted to LSE- strong, big presence, protective, capable, reliable (will power and getting things done).
I don’t see any love between them on camera. I’m all over; I’m very affectionate and touchy feely and this is ice ice baby
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2022 at 07:08 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
do u think its that the fact they are on camrea that they dont display physical affeciton
not sure if thats too far fetched
ah never mind both of them are damn liars and cowards
this is how ppl who've been together too long look like
i dont actually believe u can be with someone too long but i think ppl may be forcing it too much isntead of taking breaks or whatever they need that results in kinda resenting each other covertly but thinkign they are martyrs
being stupid like that is a hell of a nightmare for me. being able to see through and not fall in relationships like this - overthinking is a blessing
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
I do think that they are both genuine and sincere. SEE would not allow anything otherwise. They are such BS detectors since Se is a highly aware function. I just think that they don’t fulfill each other’s needs. He’s all Se and she wants Si. Can you imagine? It’s like asking him to stop telling me about what it is I am like on the surface rather tell me what I
Me: What is your favorite thing about me?
LSE: your corney laugh; you cook bomb ass meals; great in bed; you’re there for our daughter even if it’s over the top; kind considerate.
Me: Things you hate about me?
LSE: “you’re over stressed makes me over stressed; your demeanor changes if I stumble upon your sense of ethics”
That’s more a balanced Si response
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
they were sincere in so far as their words were true but were not the whole picture
he said she'd be fine without him but he wouldnt be fine without her and she was like "true"
hes grateful for her but him being stressed out by her is smth he has to put up with bc its worse otherwise. he just seems very insecure with her which is what i think might put up a wall for her so that she cant approach him affectionately. its like both are holding the door for each other while saying "u first" such a weird mix of cowardice with self sacrifice
he doesnt tell her how much she pisses him off and she doesnt tell him either.
SEE cant shake her loose - maybe he wants (has wanted?) to somewhat even if hes grateful, but if he does "even a little bit" consciously she'll break. shes doing the silently taking it, he knows but doesnt know what exactly he's doing or might do wrong which is stresseful and makes him feel restricted. i imagine an ILI would let him shake her but would sternly demand and retaliate while staying with him - which doesnt sound too perfect but ig depends on how much the ILI can take before breaking too bad
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
That was my house growing up, Mother, EIE, going into the bathroom, slamming the door and locking it while sobbing and screaming she was "going to kill herself" but it was only theatrical venting. Horrible for us kids though. My Dad her supervisor, did nothing about it, never said a word about it, never explained a thing to us kids.
They were married until Dad died. 40+ years. Not a recommended family life.
Also I was Supervised by Mother which means ugh, ugh, I understand why I had distanced myself so much once I got married I was free!
Personally I'm very go with the flow and find that structure makes me uncomfortable. I love the energy that SEE brings and the fun that we have. I agree about the not being able to have certain conversations because they don't let their thoughts wander too deeply, but I do like the refreshingness of it as it grounds me in reality. I was in a relationship with an IEE and the differences are stark - the IEE would not provide for me and everything was 50/50 whereas the SEE provides for me (mostly) and therefore it's more natural for me to take a more 'feminine' role of taking care of him etc. I value this so so much because I feel taken care of. Two, the conflicts I had with IEE are barely present in my relationship with SEE or are easily squashed, and generally there are way fewer conflicts. Three, SEE pushes me to do things out of my comfort zone, even though I'm very uncomfortable or nervous at first. I was very undecided about getting into a relationship with him as I was basically leaving the IEE for him, but he was very determined to prove himself and it convinced me, which is another thing I love - the SEE determination to make things work and to maintain my love and attention, and to 'prove himself worthy'.
I do feel like I had way more interesting and deeper conversations with IEE though, more emotional ones as well. We had a very strong emotional bond and I was completely vulnerable with him, and I can't say I have that with the SEE. Also, with the SEE I get image triggers a lot because he's very visual and I feel intimidated sometimes, and also feel like I get socially awkward sometimes for example in taking pictures and stuff, I'm also painfully aware of my body and attractiveness with the SEE, which is something I'm working on. @Adam Strange thanks for your input
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Personally I'm very go with the flow and find that structure makes me uncomfortable. I love the energy that SEE brings and the fun that we have. I agree about the not being able to have certain conversations because they don't let their thoughts wander too deeply, but I do like the refreshingness of it as it grounds me in reality. I was in a relationship with an IEE and the differences are stark - the IEE would not provide for me and everything was 50/50 whereas the SEE provides for me (mostly) and therefore it's more natural for me to take a more 'feminine' role of taking care of him etc. I value this so so much because I feel taken care of. Two, the conflicts I had with IEE are barely present in my relationship with SEE or are easily squashed, and generally there are way fewer conflicts. Three, SEE pushes me to do things out of my comfort zone, even though I'm very uncomfortable or nervous at first. I was very undecided about getting into a relationship with him as I was basically leaving the IEE for him, but he was very determined to prove himself and it convinced me, which is another thing I love - the SEE determination to make things work and to maintain my love and attention, and to 'prove himself worthy'.
I do feel like I had way more interesting and deeper conversations with IEE though, more emotional ones as well. We had a very strong emotional bond and I was completely vulnerable with him, and I can't say I have that with the SEE. Also, with the SEE I get image triggers a lot because he's very visual and I feel intimidated sometimes, and also feel like I get socially awkward sometimes for example in taking pictures and stuff, I'm also painfully aware of my body and attractiveness with the SEE, which is something I'm working on. @Adam Strange thanks for your input
@Shytan, I think we all choose relationships based upon what we need at the time.
I wish the two of you the best of luck.
maybe thats what confused volatile LIEs tend to do
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
Lol. Well, it's certainly what THIS confused and volatile LIE has done.maybe thats what confused volatile LIEs tend to do
I did lay out my best reasons and my honest opinions about the matter. But I'm also built for ESIs, who don't want to be told what to do (perhaps unlike EIIs), but rather like to be presented with facts and then allowed to make their own decisions.
So, that's what I did.
I do hope that Shytan can find the best relationship for herself, going forward, whatever that looks like.
Yup that visual being Se and aware is what bothers me too. I hope it works out for you. I personally would avoid it.Personally I'm very go with the flow and find that structure makes me uncomfortable. I love the energy that SEE brings and the fun that we have. I agree about the not being able to have certain conversations because they don't let their thoughts wander too deeply, but I do like the refreshingness of it as it grounds me in reality. I was in a relationship with an IEE and the differences are stark - the IEE would not provide for me and everything was 50/50 whereas the SEE provides for me (mostly) and therefore it's more natural for me to take a more 'feminine' role of taking care of him etc. I value this so so much because I feel taken care of. Two, the conflicts I had with IEE are barely present in my relationship with SEE or are easily squashed, and generally there are way fewer conflicts. Three, SEE pushes me to do things out of my comfort zone, even though I'm very uncomfortable or nervous at first. I was very undecided about getting into a relationship with him as I was basically leaving the IEE for him, but he was very determined to prove himself and it convinced me, which is another thing I love - the SEE determination to make things work and to maintain my love and attention, and to 'prove himself worthy'.
I do feel like I had way more interesting and deeper conversations with IEE though, more emotional ones as well. We had a very strong emotional bond and I was completely vulnerable with him, and I can't say I have that with the SEE. Also, with the SEE I get image triggers a lot because he's very visual and I feel intimidated sometimes, and also feel like I get socially awkward sometimes for example in taking pictures and stuff, I'm also painfully aware of my body and attractiveness with the SEE, which is something I'm working on. @Adam Strange thanks for your input
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Let hope you guy won't have money problems in the future.
My SEE dad could be Sx last, since married, he never seem to bother with romantic relationship (never care about other woman, even my mom), all he care about is partying with his friends. So he's pretty faithful, in a weird way... (he had a few girl friends whe he's young)
My hubby is SEE-Se and the most business and party with friends, romantic - no f'ing way.
I like that, but sometimes just want a bit of romanticness out of him, crassness gone. Sigh. I grow a heart, he doesn't grow his better. All in all OK though. I romance myself with music and loving stuff when I need to. LOL
I remember when I thought he'd ask me to marry him. That went on a few months and then when it did happen ... not romantic.
We were going to a Single A Yankees game in Fort Lauderdale, he picked me up at my house, and sitting in the car right there asked me. I was YES! but thinking at the same time how romantic it could have been in the ballpark. Anywhere in the ballpark, the parking lot, the concession stand, the seats, anywhere but the driveway in front of my stupid parents house. hahaha.
Holidays are like a weird business like affair in our house. A meal, with no trappings of said holiday except for the food. Or Christmas, a tree that I got weary of doing year after year, and so these last 10 years a tiny tree, then last year no tree, not on purpose, it just never happened. Presents wrapped, yes. Always a pile of presents.
Funnily enough, I came across this thread after recently having had some interactions with my SEE ex (I am EII)..
To start, my ex is very unhealthy and has had a string of failed relationships of both more compatible and less compatible intertypes, due to his chaotic ways. From what you’ve written, your SEE does not sound like mine in that respect. We are both sx/so and our relationship was very intense and lacked grounding.
My ex came from quite a rural background and he liked that I was book-smart. Sometimes our different backgrounds would cause a disconnect in our conversations, which would cause him to pull away. He would become angry at me, but never knew how to communicate his anger until it got to the point where he would either explode or simply disappear. Probably because of my Se PoLR, I would be completely unaware that I was irritating him until things came to a head. Eventually, he became verbally abusive, and I tolerated it for longer than I should have until I finally decided to cut things off. I didn’t explain why.
Years later, we get to talking again and we both realize just how poorly we understood each other back then. We were both constantly on the defensive, waiting for the other person to pick up non-verbal cues that they were clueless of.
If it’s working between you and your SEE, great. SEEs are cool human beings, and I still love my ex - I just know we can’t handle being together. SEEs are highly prone to bottling things up, so try to be aware of changes in your partner’s behavior and do your best to keep communication open. In my experience as the supervisee, I would immediately internalize every grievance my ex had as being my fault, when in reality sometimes he would simply take out his emotional baggage from other situations on me.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
