Am I an SEI?

[kittendioxide]

@crazymaisy Haha a little blunt - but honestly, yeah I am irrational. I do build my own logical systems, but they’re flawed and somewhat rigid- they’re also not my whole world, I am not consumed by them and can exist outside of them. I also rely on some external input to build them up (Fe). I think my Ti shows up in my life in a way that is strong for sure, but not necessarily good. As in it’s still immature or childish in some sense.
By struggles with Fe I just mean being awkward and quiet, Im not the kind of person who can strike up a conversation with anyone. I use Fe as a tool, it feels like it can be turned off and on. It manifests as a desire to be liked and can turn into people pleasing, but only with strangers and acquaintances. I think this may also have something to do with not fitting in throughout life which has manifested in a sort of fear of being outcasted - I don’t think I’d have these behaviours if it were not for past experiences which are generally not linked to socionics. Im working on all of these behaviours to have healthier Fe in the future though.
When I’m with people I trust, who I know will love me regardless of whether I prove myself to them socially - or prove I have something to offer, my Fe kinda goes out the window and Im able to be more authentic. If I had to pick though, I definitely value relationships and desire social “power” over pure logic overall.

[nickelslick]

Could you explain what you think Fe is in your own words and describe how you use it day-to-day?

[kittendioxide]

@nickelslick I struggle to observe and talk about my own behaviour objectively so I apologise if my answer here lacks coherence but it manifests as a generally polite demeanour. I am agreeable, non-offensive and have a desire to fit in somewhere. I can handle one on one conflicts, but If i feel like the “group” is turning on me I feel upset and think I must have done something wrong. When I know people well enough I am great at entertaining others in a group setting and can be loud, though I will feel exhausted by this afterwards. My opinions are influenced by the people around me, I gather up all of their opinions and try to get the overall truth from it. Although I am stubborn and headstrong and even a little bossy at home (meaning I generally believe my perspective is right and will do something after being told not to), in public my fear of rejection leads me to be a lot “softer” overall, if that makes sense and I am less likely to push for something I want.

[nickelslick]

@nickelslick I struggle to observe and talk about my own behaviour objectively so I apologise if my answer here lacks coherence but it manifests as a generally polite demeanour. I am agreeable, non-offensiveFi role and have a desire to fit in somewhere. I can handle one on one conflicts, but If i feel like the “group” is turning on me I feel upset and think I must have done something wrongFi role. When I know people well enough I am great at entertaining others in a group setting and can be loud, though I will feel exhausted by this afterwards. My opinions are influenced by the people around me, I gather up all of their opinions and try to get the overall truth from itTi, Ne openness . Although I am stubborn and headstrong at home (meaning I generally believe my perspective is right and will do something after being told not toSe PoLR), in public my fear of rejection leads me to be a lot “softer” overall, if that makes sense and I am less likely to push for something I wantSe PoLR.

LOL LII af.

I am reading my biography here.

If I had to pick though, I definitely value relationships and desire social “power” over pure logic overall.

Except for this, ew.

[Lycantrope]

Haha I really don’t know about LII - my Fe is a strength of mine, though I do struggle with it at times. The only reason I could think of as to why it would be well developed would be some unconscious gender performativity shit

An SEI in theory would have more dimensionality to Fe, up to 3 in contrast to 1D of LII. Why you consider Fe a strength in you? Because when you say it's a strength but then that you struggle with it. We tend to struggle more with "weaker" IM elements (or functions) so to speak. If you say "I struggle 'cause I feel too much", ok that's one thing, you have imbalanced emotions but the question on the functions really is: what is the dimentionality of them in your perceptions and judgments

Refresh your mind on dimensionality: Dimensionality of functions - Wikisocion

[kittendioxide]

@nickelslick

I assumed that if I were IEI after all the Se desire for power would manifest in wanting power in social spheres to influence others in a non toxic way. But yeah I stand by this, I have curiosities and I like to think about things but I don’t have an insatiable thirst for knowledge. I see no value in knowledge unless it can ultimately be used to bring some sort of power or influence to change things. I like knowledge for fun, but I do not accumulate it for the sake of it. I accumulate it to have discussions about things and converse using that knowledge, but just having it in my own brain isn’t super appealing to me.

[kittendioxide]

Thanks for the resource, I’ll have to look into it some more. But when i say i struggle with it I don’t mean struggling to understand the vibe of the room or not knowing the right thing to say, I moreso mean general awkwardness. But that’s just an introversion thing regardless of type so I could be mistaking it for “bad” Fe. @Lincatrope

[nickelslick]

I see no value in knowledge unless it can ultimately be used to bring some sort of power or influence to change things. I like knowledge for fun, but I do not accumulate it for the sake of it. I accumulate it to have discussions about things and converse using that knowledge, but just having it in my own brain isn’t super appealing to me.

So this is Te, business logic, and clashes with the possibility of you being an IEI or SEI, who are Te PoLR. It isn't Se.

As an LII, you have strong Te.

[kittendioxide]

@nickelslick
I see. I’ll consider LII and look into it more thoroughly.
I relate to a lot of elements of Te PolR too and these struggles are especially noticeable right now as I prepare for university exams. I can have trouble working out how much time to allocate to tasks and procrastinate everything to the complete last minute to avoid having to work. Being given orders fills me with anger and resentment too. Based on this information is Te PolR or ignoring function more likely?

[kittendioxide]

@nickelslick Big point that i forgot to mention: I can be illogical and superstitious, half-believing in things such as “messages” from the universe as I find it fun to do so.

[kittendioxide]

oops i accidentally closed the thread it should be fine again now, still learning how to use this site

[nickelslick]

@nickelslick
I see. I’ll consider LII and look into it more thoroughly.
I relate to a lot of elements of Te PolR too and these struggles are especially noticeable right now as I prepare for university exams. I can have trouble working out how much time to allocate to tasks and procrastinate everything to the complete last minute to avoid having to work. ... ignoring function more likely?

Ignoring function ,yes, I have that problem too and so do many of the LIIs here. I think 90% of the time I spend on this forum has been when it was a tab open next to the tab I needed to study from, lol.

Being given orders fills me with anger and resentment too.

Being given orders feels forceful which is an Se thing, us LII need to be rationally convinced rather than ordered around.

[nickelslick]

@nickelslick Big point that i forgot to mention: I can be illogical and superstitious, half-believing in things such as “messages” from the universe as I find it fun to do so.

I think this is more a side effect of strong intuition, and having OCD doesn't help either. Being a T type doesn't make you immune to it.

[Adam Strange]

Being given orders feels forceful which is an Se thing, us LII need to be rationally convinced rather than ordered around.

This is absolutely true about LIIs. If you tell an LII what to do, they will 1. Get pissed off. 2. Dig in. 3. Refuse to do it anyway, any time in the future.

The way I approach LIIs is to say something like "We need to move on this project and Fred and Bob don't seem to have a good idea of what they should be doing. Could you make up a list of tasks which need to be done, in order, along with anything that you think should be purchased? I'll share your list with Fred and Bob and maybe we can actually make a deadline this month. Thank you."

In other words, I approach LIIs obliquely. Maybe, sort of, like an imitation ESE might, although I'm pretty far from an ESE.

[SacredKnowing]

@kittendioxide who's the anime character in your profile picture? The kind of fictional characters we represent ourselves with often reflect our sociotype.

[kittendioxide]

Sailor Jupiter from Sailor Moon. She’s typed SEE on PDB. I don’t relate to her or anything she was just my favourite character growing up and I recently rewatched sailor moon (I think I mentioned that I go back to childhood media as a source of mental comfort and nostalgia) so I picked her as my profile photo. I don’t think Im SEE though lol. @Maromi

[kittendioxide]

But how could I be LII when I showered just this morning!?

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

But how could I be LII when I showered just this morning!?

akshually it seems beta NFs have been stereotyped as having poor hygiene and im guilty but not sorry

[kittendioxide]

akshually it seems beta NFs have been stereotyped as having poor hygiene and im guilty but not sorry

lmao. too busy thinking about social injustice to brush their teeth?

[Adam Strange]

But how could I be LII when I showered just this morning!?

Lol.

I hear what you are saying, but I think that slovenly LIIs are actually rare. My LII sister, in fact, sometimes looks like an airy princess SEI. Light, beautiful, impossibly perfect. Until she opens her mouth and out comes Ti.

[SacredKnowing]

Lol.

I hear what you are saying, but I think that slovenly LIIs are actually rare. My LII sister, in fact, sometimes looks like an airy princess SEI. Light, beautiful, impossibly perfect. Until she opens her mouth and out comes Ti.

According to a much older thread on these fora, Mary Poppins is LII and Burke is ESE. Practically perfect in every way.

[kittendioxide]

aww there goes my hopes of being a light airy SEI princess

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

lmao. too busy thinking about social injustice to brush their teeth?

i think tooth paste is toxic and didnt help me with pain and tooth degeneration that kept growing until i stopped eating starch then toothpaste became irrelevant

[FreelancePoliceman]

aww there goes my hopes of being a light airy SEI princess

Well, it's hard to type over text, and the majority opinion's been wrong before. For what it's worth you seem LII to me though. At least if it turned out that you were another type I'd strongly reconsider my own. Your posts here all seem pretty relatable.

But "light airy SEI," uh, you might have the wrong idea of SEIs. Lol. As Alphas go I think they're the most moody and temperamental. For every day they look like shining beacons of warmth and sociability and grace they spend at least two holed up and grumpy. Alpha rationals have pretty stable moods if they're kept comfortable, even ESEs, and LII women especially tend to have have a naturally "aristocratic" bearing, IMO. "Light airy" you might have a problem with, but if you're LII, "princess" should come pretty easily. ツ

Regarding wanting power, what kind of power do you fantasize about having?

[kittendioxide]

Haha. I’m not a light and airy person at all at least not emotionally, though I definitely come off that way to strangers. An acquaintance of mine was reluctant telling me about something that happened to her personally because in her words I come off as a “sensitive” person and I felt like I was going to burst out laughing because her impression of me was so far off from the truth. I am a neurotypical person so of course I have empathy, but I would never care about the problems of a random person. I simply do not give a shit and Im definitely not going to waste my time thinking about your personal issues.

As for power and control It is not something I am willing to work for, or get competitive for. I like having power in social groups, power to make everyone laugh and bring some level of joy - I am envious of people who can do this effortlessly. I can also be powerful in the sense of being very persuasive, due to Fe & Ti. Being perceived as weak really pisses me off. I also desire enough power so that no one else can have power over me, not power for the sake of it but power for freedom. Like every other person on earth, I always think I would make a great world leader and enact real change too, whether I actually would be good at that I don’t know. It’s probably just a fantasy, as dealing with all the little things that go into the upkeep of that power would be difficult and tedious for me.
@FreelancePoliceman

[Northstar]

Without reading anything but the title of this thread, yes, your username is decidedly SEI. Hats off to @Sol.

[kittendioxide]

@Northstar that settles it then

[Adam Strange]

Without reading anything but the title of this thread, yes, your username is decidedly SEI. Hats off to @Sol.

Hah! Now, you see, I saw @kittendioxide's name and instantly thought "chemistry major, female variety", probably LII, because every LII in the world has a degree in Ti chem.

Of course, the name COULD be aspirational.

[Northstar]

@Northstar that settles it then

That'll be $5.

You're going to get very angry if someone disturbs you during your breakfast or forcibly wakes you from sleep, right?

[Northstar]

Hah! Now, you see, I saw @kittendioxide's name and instantly thought "chemistry major, female variety", probably LII, because every LII in the world has a degree in Ti chem.

It's playful and science-y, perfect for impressing ILEs. My SEI mother has a master's in chemistry and my SEI ex used similar usernames. She also liked to use the inverted (upside down) smiley (on messenger apps, or just (: in text), you know, just to be quirky!

[kittendioxide]

I’m so sorry to have to let down the dedicated kittendioxide fandom like this but I have to confess that I actually couldn’t pass a single chemistry class back in the day, so I’ll have to accept my SEI identity without any further questioning now.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

cute

[kittendioxide]

cute

[DEAD]

What if you're actually an ILE LARPing as an SEI who thought they were LII, just so that you can secretly lure in an SEI to use as a maid?

[Sol]

Without reading anything but the title of this thread, yes, your username is decidedly SEI. Hats off to @Sol.

mainly, I prefer a video

the talking style has not bad structure. this gives a chance for J to doubt in SEI
negative emotions on avatar - against common SEI too
I'd not rejected, but doubted in SEI from the start

[nifl]

Personally I mostly disregard the visual aspects of socionics. It simply does not make sense to me how someone’s appearance can signify anything about their personality - seems like physiognomy to me and so I call BS. Appearance is genetic and environmental. It has nothing to do with your personality, but feel free to disagree with me on that.

That being said I VI as SEI, IEI and LII. I have IEI “narrow angular” eyes and it matches the description of my clothing sense. I have a roundness and elongation to my face that appears in the description of SEI, as well as expressive eyebrows and short stature. I have the LII “wagging” gait, walking from side to side and medieval looking profile as well as the description of stature, the shape of nose and chin. LII & SEI are the closest in terms of VI. I also have an average weight, not thin or fat- I suppose you could argue that I have a certain roundness in that my body looks more soft than it does sharp- except for my face which is more angular, defined cheekbones etc. but like i said i don’t believe in it at all. facial expressions, clothing sense and eye movements may be a very slight indication of personality sure, but I struggle to see how the size of someone’s nose would say anything about their cognition.

VI is about non-verbal behaviour, not physical appearance. Based on this behaviour the traits relevant to types can be deduced (extravert, introvert etc.), like how psychological states are presumed with other kinds of behaviour - for example how when a person cries, there is an assumption of considerable emotional movement in them; they are not categorised as 'calm'.
Nawcissist just uses physiognomy

[Sol]

VI is about non-verbal behaviour, not physical appearance. <...> Nawcissist just uses physiognomy

"VI" is mainly specific for English sites term. It seems was popularized by Ganin which also? used physiognomy. Augustinavichiute mentions physiognomy traits in her texts too, not only nonverbal related.
By the general sense of Visual Identification - any visual data can be used. Taking Augustinavichiute texts, physiognomy also formally can be related to Socionics. Same as other Augustinavichiute not best ideas alike Reinin traits etc.

I'd recommend do not use "VI" term, as its too general and corrupted by physiognomy users. But to use more concrete terms: nonverbal-intuitive method, nonverbal identification, visual nonverbal identification (VNI), etc.
When people come from MBTI in most cases they think Socionics uses VI mainly or only as physiognomy.

Probably I was the 1st who used terms alike intuitive nonverbal method. Typers used this info but prefered do not say that directly, as intuition is often perceived as something "non-scientific", just useless fantasy. Until my 2015 year experiment where by intuitive-nonverbal approach the typing match was shown above accidental, there could stay doubts about practical usefulness of intuitive-nonverbal method for Jung types identification.

[Beautiful sky]

Liking to cook is not Si

[Beautiful sky]

I would say you are IEI

-I can predict how certain people will react to the things i say, I have a good sense of how the relationships of the people around me will unfold.

[Beautiful sky]

Ni
“ Because I daydream about my own personal, idealised future so often I’ve always been detached. I am incapable of being present, it’s boring for me to focus on the present when what’s coming next is more exciting. ”