Originally Posted by Number 9 large
ISTx
youll find it out eventually
I was reacting to your statement everything except fingerprints is the same. It's not. To claim so would be a huge simplifications. Even DNA doesn't have to be similar 100% of cases. There even don't have to be any kind of braindamage (although conditiones I mentioned in my post are 15% chances for each to occur, which is not statistically insignificant risk). Identical twins are not clones. Each of them act different, think different, feal different... Each from the set is an individual human being.
Identical twins are the same right down to the personality, how they score on tests and so on its like having a clone of yourself. Even if reared apart, they will still essentially be the same:
A lot depends on one's genetics, much more than we are comfortable with admitting. Its usually other people's warped perception wish or want for twins to be different from each-other, when they aren't.
<--- freaky both got pregnant same time both had a miscarriage...
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
ive been in school with 3 different pairs of twins, and met others during my lifetime, even dated one from a pair, and ye, they were not the same.
2 etero twins from jr high: one is now a single party guy, the other is happily engaged and always at home, from fb i see different works, interests etc
2 mono twins from high school: (they're even the most similar in their appereance) very different in character since the very scratch, were and went on studying different things and having different hobbies etc, theyre now working in the same business together, but one is the administrator and works behind the scenes, the other is the public figure and she models for their brand
2 mono twins from college: they really looked different from how they behaved, they were looking identical but when talking, moving, thinking... you could hardly say they were twins, they also couldn't stand each other. the one that was in class with me was a total lame jerk, while everybody loved her twin, a very sweet and popular girl
2 mono twins of which i dated 1: actually in this example the similarity in behavior is strong, although i found a sort of repulson for the other twin, he was less nice and more outspoken/extroverted than the twin i was with
now, there's a key component missing from your oh so deep analysis on twins, Numbo, shot and North, and whoever is thinking that genetics make up 100% of our characters, and it's that that's not the case. the experiences, the environment, the interactions adn the inputs everyone receives and engages in are main components of the development of character/individuality. AND they influence genetics too, because repetition and strong experiences have the power to modify our genetic wirings, so yes, you can even say that genetics is at the base of our everything, but by doing so you have to recognize even that that genetic makeup has influences outside of itself.
those many twins that show up on youtube as case studies for "look we're so identicals we do everythingk alike!" are obviosuly not healthy, nor common cases. make a google research on twins, and u'll be flooded with studies on how theyre different, while... write on google smt like " omo twins have the same personality" and u'll find only one or 2 results, claiming the things i already mentioned too.
Again, not in 100% of cases. Even the title of the video you mentioned says "THESE identical twins have the same personalities", not a general statement. Anyway, I can imagine even choice of twins themselves is important - some of them really want to be as much similar as possible in everything, intentionally making actual clones from themselves, while some of them want the complete opposite. Suppose a lot of these won't go to such extremes. However we are getting at the area of nature vs. nurture here a little I guess. And I try to explain that even "nature" part can be influenced significantly from the beginning each twin fetuses life.
And as for a wishing part, I believe you are right to an extent. At least for me It's difficult to imagine anyone would want to be someone elses exact copy in everything. But I also think that everyone really is unique, there are no two exact human beings, just very, very simmilar (even within identical twins, identical triplets etc.). I don't say it's impossible for twins to have the same sociotype, because as I understand it even among people of the same type there are certain differences, no matter how subtle. I just don't agree with the generalized statement identical twins to be absolutly and completely "identical" in everything. That's simply wrong conclusion.
i guess you dont know what identical means. since ur too retarded to understand english, let me explain at the hand of a beautiful source:
identical
adjective
- 1.
similar in every detail; exactly alike.
"four girls in identical green outfits"
And I quess you are only able to understand things in very literal, limited and symplifying way. The fact someone has the same genetic pottential doesn't mean there will be the same development, as I mentioned earlier. Maybe when you read some actual research or study about identical twins, you will be able to contribute something meaningful in this discussion.
but they will still be identical twins. i never said that they were 100% the same or have the same development. i thought it was obvious that 2 different people cant develop exactly the same as they litterally take up space somewhere else so their experience will always be different. did that really need to be explained? the question was whether their personality is the same. personality is genetic. they have the same genetic material cuz they are IDENTICAL twins. therefore the answer is yes and u can stfu.
The brain is not the same. It has neuroplasticity that adapts to the environment early on in life and tends to crystalize as years go by
It's a big assumption to conclude that DNA is the same therefore type is the same.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
You said that. Never mind, it seems each of us has a different opinion and I want waste my time and energy on someone who is not willing to listen. And making this personal and offend me by being retarded or not able to understand english language - it's really lame, dude.
its not a big assumption because type is inborn.
i guess u took me literally.
ISTj/LSI - MBTI ISTPthat makes the most sense. A non "J"-ish enneagram 6.
Received results today. LII-N. Not agree with the subtype, however LII was one of four possible types I considered for myself.
I rarely type subtypes through videos but l also had N in mind for you. would be cool if you're an LII. haven't seen many female examples of our type. might rewatch your videos in the next few days.
my ideas about socionics:
https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/
the section will be updated ever other month or so.
this is a VI thread with IEI examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)
and this is a thread with EIE examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples
May I ask why did you think so? While I was reading through Gulenko's website material, I felt harmonizing or creative subtype would be a better fit for me. However, I'm not familiar very much with DCNH theory yet, so I'm not discarding this possibility..
If you are interested, I could send you link with a part of my video I sent to Gulenko. Not ready to share it publicly. Not after those mean comments I get here ;-) In fact, I'm considering to remove my video I shared, so if you want to rewatch it, please do so quickly... :-D
I would advise you and all the other honest people who got typed by G to not publicly show their typing videos because that’s self-exposure and there’s a lot of mentally ill people on here that play psychological games and use what they can against others and piggyback off people’s videos to scam results. I showed my video to a few but they were all already typed by G.
Normalizing subtype modeled after IJ temperament so there’s development emphasis on Ti and Fi. Aster (on hiatus) is IEI-N and I’m SEE-N. Aster is IP with IJ temperament so she’s a more stable and consistent IEI and I’m an EP with IJ temperament so I’m a more restrained and less impulsive SEE. You’re IJ with IJ temperament which is to say you’re very stable and consistent.
And wow. Ti lead females are very rare.
Last edited by Lolita; 02-10-2021 at 03:22 AM.
yeah, you hit me with a pretty strong INxx vibe
What exactly were the types you had considered for yourself before?
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
It's pretty important to meet real people of all subtypes from your own type. The subtype changes the chemistry and you can then see where you stand. The descriptions isolate the DCNH phenomenon, but in real life people have more sides to them, and you might not even identify that much with your DCNH subtype as long as you are unaware of it. It gets clearer after comparing yourself with other identicals.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
I've heard it said that DNA is a recipe, not a blueprint, but it seems it is also said that DNA isn't a recipe either.
Genetics and environment are both important generally, and the importance will vary from person to person regarding their effect on personality.
no you dont get it. genetics and environment have influence on your BEHAVIOUR. personality, however, is inborn and has nothing to do with environment.
How are you defining "personality"? Do you have any evidence?
The influence from environment on personality is pretty clear when comparing people from different cultures. If someone had adopted me right after I was born and placed me in China, Italy, an African tribe, with Inuits, in New York or in ancient Egypt I would be very different from whom I am now.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
A sociotype is not a personality itself. Just roots.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
i dont need evidence cuz im not Te valuing
Thank you for your concern and kind advice. Even though I admit I am still somehow naive believing other people have mainly good intentions as it's hard for me to find any meaningful reason why would anyone willingly behave badly or cruelly, I am careful with sharing personal data. So if you see my video, be sure I am showing only parts I am relatively comfortable with others to learn about me. Things which are really personal or sensitive stay hidden from the world.
Well, there is a problem I have with IJ temperament. I wouldn't say I am very much consistent. I have long-term hobbies which I do follow, but I shift my attention between them rather quickly and a lot of projects I start I don't finish right away (or never or I don't even start and just imagining doing them). Being called "calm and stable" is not how I would call myself and I doubt anyone who knows me well would go with this characteristic either. Although this could be how strangers or aquitances probably perceive me (as I try not to show my feelings to everyone), people who I spend a lot of time with and know me well would agree I am far away from that. I have very strong internal feelings. My neuroticism have been always very high - I get sad easily, I get depressed easily, I get offended easily. My mood can be spoiled just like that and change a lot during a short periond of time. However, you won't likely to see this if I'm not willing to show it. But I'll show all this in full intensity if we are close enough – my „poor chosen“ people could probably tell you how dramatic and oversensitive I can be from time to time. In fact this is something I read is somehow typical for IEI, which I also considered for myself. But with IEI I have problem with Beta quadra... "Calm and stable" also seems like an direct opposite of what Enneagram type 4 is supposed to be. But in these circumstances it would be easy to understand where the feelings of alienation and being so much weird and different came from being LII female.
I admit, this all brought up together would be even more rare - being a female LII and type Four as well. With identical twins (chance for spontaneus conception is lesser than 0,5%). Hmm, sounds super rare to me and it feels... soo good :-D
Anyway, for the sake of my marriage I also hope Gulenko is wrong, because I am pretty sure my husband is ILI and quasi-identicals don't have very good reputation as far as I have read...
Well, some of those people who where discussing below the video had a serious S vibe from me. I would like to know how does an intuitive and sensing vibe looks like. I guess it's for obvious reasons hard to describe a vibe, but I'm curious if you could try? ;-)
I considred EII, LII, IEI, ILI and SEI for myself and have been typed as EII and IEI by socionics profilers (and as INFP, INFJ and INTJ by MBTI profilers). So I would say it's relatively safe to claim myself to be INxx at this poit. However, vultologists typed me as ISFP...Hm...
I would like to have that kind of comparision. As I think more about this, I really am not sure how Gulenko came to his conclusion. As I wrote above I have my doubts regarding IJ temperament. And being even more extreme version of it, which is what effect of normalizing subtype should have, as Lolita mentioned, sounds very inprobable to me. Here I really believe Gulenko has subtype wrong and if I really am an LII then I fit harmonizing subtype the most. The evidence for this could be my conscious effort in developing and improving people skills (I started this journey as very socially awkward but gifted child) and interest in humans in the first place (as oppose to somewhat „inanimate“ sphere of interests which a lot of logicians are supposed to have and which I see as something far beyond Fi role) as well as the fact so many MBTI and Socionics profilers (Olga Tangemann, Ben Vaserlan, profilers in my country) typed me as ethical (or MBTI Feeler) type, which could be H subtype just mistakenly interpreted as an F attitude.
How are you defining "personality"? How do you know you're not Te valuing?
Do you think I have Fe as creative function? Well, my primary intention is not to impact anyone's mood (as I don't like if someone is trying to impact my mood either). By having my feelings (which I consider highly intimate and personal matter to me) I am folowing rather my own agenda - avoid looking awkward or inapropriate and preventing possible negative response like rejection, misunderstanding, criticism...
I also believe every type could be any type in any those two systems, but I still think some combinations are more likely to happen than others.
You have a somewhat detached and idealistic wording, that's the most concrete I can give to this moment, and I'm bad at explaining how I come to conclusions, so I hope you know what I mean
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Hope these typing procesess are not so much influenced by the fact English is not my first language. When I was interested in being typed by Timur Protsky this was my main concern as his typing method was very dependent on semantic analysis. There was questionnaire to fill and providing definitions of certain terms was important part of it. And while I think my Enghlish is not bad I think the fact you are not a native speaker can be limiting in the typing process where every chosen word matters. However, when I was trying to find it yesterday, tha page was gone, so maybe he doesn't use it anymore...You have a somewhat detached and idealistic wording, that's the most concrete I can give to this moment, and I'm bad at explaining how I come to conclusions, so I hope you know what I mean
And yes, I see your point, thank you!
Last edited by Sachmet; 02-12-2021 at 07:15 AM.
I define personality basically as your personality type enneagram/socionics. Its clearly inborn as there are already clear differences between children in personality.
Im not Te valuing because I dont fit those descriptions
just follow your heart bro
Last edited by Computer Loser; 02-12-2021 at 01:36 PM.
It doesn't have to be 100% inborn.
Also, environmental factors include conditions in the womb.
says who
The fact that environmental factors occur even before birth.
If uve got a red car and u scratch it, its not a red car anymore?
and how does this change personality or dna?
You’re all just ESIs like Olimpia said. Now close this thread.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
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