Differences between Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx instinct stackings

[maniac]

Your first instinct is your religion. Your 2nd is USUALLY a source of pleasure and fun, but it gets ruined when it becomes too serious.

We give up anything for our religion, so if Im having troubles with my partner i would sacrifice my security and money. I would be okay with living on the streets as long as I have you by my side. Literally. SX first gets obsessed with their partners and its almost like you're subconsciously forcing the passion and sparks to happen. Sp first moves slow (from an sx firsts POV), or at least their emotions do.

[Pallas]

@Ghost Are you sure you're synflow though? Also, my religion is my religion, not partners, society, or self-preservation. I'm also not entirely sure Sx is about partners and you just sound sort of codependent to me. Based on your definitions of the stackings, Sp/So ironically literally sounds like the most desirable one, because you just care about yourself first and then engage with society when it suits you (but don't depend on the approval of others) and then finally comes partners (who aren't as important as the wider world). But that's not how I see the stackings defined literally anywhere else, and anyways, the way you conceptualize them makes it sound like Sp/So is the stacking for revolutionaries when it tends to be considered the boring one.

[maniac]

@Ghost Are you sure you're synflow though? Also, my religion is my religion, not partners, society, or self-preservation. I'm also not entirely sure Sx is about partners and you just sound sort of codependent to me. Based on your definitions of the stackings, Sp/So ironically literally sounds like the most desirable one, because you just care about yourself first and then engage with society when it suits you (but don't depend on the approval of others) and then finally comes partners (who aren't as important as the wider world). But that's not how I see the stackings defined literally anywhere else, and anyways, the way you conceptualize them makes it sound like Sp/So is the stacking for revolutionaries when it tends to be considered the boring one.

Im drawn towards people and want to be involved with people so yes.
"Religion" is a metaphor for what matters the absolute most to you and what you life for.
SX is about fiery passion when it is first you feel like half a person so you need another person to merge with (with fiery passion). So yes sx firsts are codependent. I usually imagine the picture of John Lennon and Yoko Ono together where theyre lying together as sx (John). Cant look it up rn cause im on my phone.
- That doesnt mean other stackings cant be codependent though.
Why do you find it "ironic" that sp/so is the most desirable to you?
I dont know if I find any of the stackings "ideal". Its like asking whether brown or blonde hair is better. Ive been envious of sp/sx girls because they are like cats, mysterious, detached. I think thats really attractive. My envy is sx + 4 based in that im only envious because I think theyre more attractive than me though.

[Pallas]

@Ghost I don't think Sp/So is the most desirable from most descriptions though, just from yours, because the way you describe it makes it sound like some sort of social revolutionary stacking, and I find that to sound appealing (it tends to be described as the the exact opposite BTW). Also, being codependent is not healthy FYI.

[maniac]

@Verbrannte when did i describe it as "social revolutionary"? And if you think that is desirable then you are probably not soc last.

Thats why most sx firsts tend to be 'unhealthy'.
This is what sx firsts deep down believe they need to survive and its not as easy as saying its not unhealthy etc. Its the same as trying to convince an sp first that money and security is not what matters the most. Keep in mind sp/so may say 'family matters most' and yes family probably matters a lot to them but take away their financial security, belongings and they will be horribly stressed out and neglect other things until they get it under control again. Ive dated an sp first who was poor and he was so worried about it constantly and made him depressed and i felt bad for him but couldnt fully understand how bad his anxiety was about this because im not sp first.

[Pallas]

@Ghost So first is supposed to want social approval at any cost though, and since I don't care about that, I can't be So first. Sx first is basically dependent personality disorder from this description, and since I am fine going without any sort of close partner at all, I also cannot be Sx first. Sp first is about wanting comfort and survival, and since I don't care about that either, I also cannot be Sp first. Therefore, I must be some sort of demigod-like being who has no instincts, and I should probably abandon trying to type myself in any typology system at all since beings like that probably don't have human personality types.

[maniac]

@Ghost So first is supposed to want social approval at any cost though, and since I don't care about that, I can't be So first. Sx first is basically dependent personality disorder from this description, and since I am fine going without any sort of close partner at all, I also cannot be Sx first. Sp first is about wanting comfort and survival, and since I don't care about that either, I also cannot be Sp first. Therefore, I must be some sort of demigod-like being who has no instincts, and I should probably abandon trying to type myself in any typology system at all since beings like that probably don't have human personality types.

You wont notice it until something is threatening it, so probably sp first if youve lived comfortable financially

[Pallas]

@Ghost Wow, I pick a username referring to a nearly-incomprehensible weird liebestod poem and post to you as I listen to music from dramatic operas (vs. comic) because I'm Sp-first! It all makes sense now! Thank you very much!

[maniac]

@Ghost Wow, I pick a username referring to a nearly-incomprehensible weird liebestod poem and post to you as I listen to music from dramatic operas (vs. comic) because I'm Sp-first! It all makes sense now! Thank you very much!

If youre implying an sp first cant do that for some reason you are wrong, uh

[Pallas]

@Ghost Well, to be fair, liebestod is probably not a word you'd be familiar with unless you have both 4 and 5 in your tritype, and that is really the main thing here.

[maniac]

@Ghost Well, to be fair, liebestod is probably not a word you'd be familiar with unless you have both 4 and 5 in your tritype, and that is really the main thing here.

First of all can you stop thinking that everyone here speak german. And what does this have to do with instincts again?

[Pallas]

@Ghost Liebestod is an English word, but sort of a specialist loanword. And what it has to do with instincts... well, it literally translates as "love-death" so you decide

[maniac]

@Ghost Liebestod is an English word, but sort of a specialist loanword. And what it has to do with instincts... well, it literally translates as "love-death" so you decide

You are probably the most confusing person on this forum

[Pallas]

You are probably the most confusing person on this forum

Thank you very much

[maniac]

[maniac]

Attachment 8879

Here's what I meant. I think it conveys what sx is like. John Lennon is sx/so, he has the "OMG" about his partner.
I would guess Yoko Ono is sp/sx from her pictures and also this picture. See how detached she is? But still intriguing because there is sx under there somewhere, but it's being contained by the sp shell.
I believe sx firsts don't tend to go for other sx firsts, because the not having them completely is what keeps the fire burning.

[Pallas]

Attachment 8879

Here's what I meant. I think it conveys what sx is like. John Lennon is sx/so, he has the "OMG" about his partner.
I would guess Yoko Ono is sp/sx from her pictures and also this picture. See how detached she is? But still intriguing because there is sx under there somewhere, but it's being contained by the sp shell.

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Sx is not just about partners from what I've read. It's a hard thing to really describe concretely though, probably because it's not a concrete thing.

[lynn]

Here's what I meant. I think it conveys what sx is like. John Lennon is sx/so, he has the "OMG" about his partner.
I would guess Yoko Ono is sp/sx from her pictures and also this picture. See how detached she is? But still intriguing because there is sx under there somewhere, but it's being contained by the sp shell.

yoko ono and john lennon always appeared to me as an sx/sp and sp/so couple ... this is soo self-pres: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_ZZVVAO4it4/maxresdefault.jpg

[Jarno]

Sx is not just about partners from what I've read. It's a hard thing to really describe concretely though, probably because it's not a concrete thing.

Agreed. Its about a fire inside you. Its about not backing up but craving confrontation. Its about being real and not fake even if it is at your disadvantage. Its about passion and taking risks. Its about doing nothing the whole week but binge drinking in sat evening. Its about going first when the rest are scared. Its about being inspirational because you pull shit that others only dream about. Its about being bored all the time except when shit start your blood starts flowing. So whats with the partner, well you like making an impression on him, seeing the other person want you gives a kick. You know how to push the buttons. You are focussed on his buttons not your own. Thats sx to me.

[Pallas]

Agreed. Its about a fire inside you. Its about not backing up but craving confrontation. Its about being real and not fake even if it is at your disadvantage. Its about passion and taking risks. Its about doing nothing the whole week but binge drinking in sat evening. Its about going first when the rest are scared. Its about being inspirational because you pull shit that others only dream about. Its about being bored all the time except when shit start your blood starts flowing. So whats with the partner, well you like making an impression on him, seeing the other person want you gives a kick. You know how to push the buttons. You are focussed on his buttons not your own. Thats sx to me.

Well, that's a bit self-praising and it also depends on the Enneagram typing besides that (this sounds really, really 8w7 Sx, probably like 8w7 874 Sx/So to be specific), but it seems generally pretty accurate compared to Ghost's.

[maniac]

@Verbrannte
It is mainly about partners but also attraction/repulsion to things which leads to you conveying your own personal style in an overt way in order to attract possible partners which means it all goes back to sexual attraction and partners again... So sx is attraction, passion, partners, all that.

Sx last tend to not identify what they like as "them", or not really knowing what they like vs "I LOVE/HATE this" or "this is ME".

@Jarno if that is sx, where is the sexual in that?
@Lim why is it "so self-pres"? cause theyre touching? lol

[Pallas]

@Ghost Then I can't be Sx last, since I'm super opinionated on everything and that tends to be the thing that gets me into fights the most. And if I'm also not So last... No Sp first for me

Also, he said it's about passion, that sounds vaguely sexual to me to say the least, even if he's not super relationship-focused due to 8 lead being one of the "splitting off" types or whatever. For being that focused on relationships, I would almost place you as a 2 or something over 4, and as I said, contraflow vs. synflow for being on a socionics forum with "socionics doesn't exist" in your signature rather than finding an enneagram forum, which, if you're So-last, would make you Sp/Sx. Also, the whole "when you're drowning" thing is suspiciously self-pres since you're trying to not drown rather than being like "I want to drown in your love! Liebestod!" or "Oh, my love, please save me from drowning!" (which is better for Sp-not-last than liebestod is).

[maniac]

@Verbrannte You seem somewhere on the autism spectrum so starting fights is expected. Having opinions is not the same as identifying with things you love though. Its attraction/repulsion, not opinions about things like socionics. There's plenty of people that have very odd or contronversial views who are sx last.
You said you don't need to be close to a partner at all. That is definitely not sx first and the fact that you're ignoring this fact and typing sx first anyway is kind of retarded tbh.

There are plenty of passionate people who are sx last, Soc firsts are passionate about social issues. Sx first are passionate about passion, and passion in the romantic/sexual sense (i have to keep saying this because for some reason its hard to get it into your head).

"being focused on relationships" is not 2 in itself. 2s want to have the image of themself as a helper, and a loving person. And I am soo far from that, haha, being around 2s make me feel super uncomfortable because we are like the opposite, 2s are warm and loving - i'm cold and distant (except in relationships) and see myself as broken.
When 4s are unhealthy, they disintegrate to 2 and become overly clingy and needy, they don't suddenly start acting like they want to help everyone though.

You can't type people synflow or contraflow just by certain things they say and especially not on the internet.
I would love to be on an enneagram forum - if there was one.

[Pallas]

@Verbrannte You seem somewhere on the autism spectrum so starting fights is expected.

Having opinions is not the same as identifying with things you love though. Its attraction/repulsion, not opinions about things like socionics.

I would love to be on an enneagram forum - if there was one.

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram...-theory-forum/
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/forum70/
http://9types.com/
http://www.enneagram.net/

[maniac]

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram...-theory-forum/

not an enneagram forum

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/forum70/

not an enneagram forum

http://9types.com/

last post was made 2003

http://www.enneagram.net/

inactive

There was EIDB, who was pretty active, maybe more active than this forum, but they shut down.

[Myst]

I would guess Yoko Ono is sp/sx from her pictures and also this picture. See how detached she is? But still intriguing because there is sx under there somewhere, but it's being contained by the sp shell.

The link doesn't work. But it's sx/sp that's described that way, not sp/sx:

"sx/sp mystifier (midrange) - the range where the mystique of the sx/sp stack is at its strongest. unconsciously attracts with intense eye contact and other sx feelers, but holds back enough to give them a kind of untouchable or hard to get close to quality. depending on their true intentions this can either frustrate their sx or reward their functional sp cooling system. like midrangers of all stacks, there's a seemingly casual approach to meeting their variant needs as the secondary instinct is kept both in play and at bay, and others may wonder what they really want.

sx/sp wanderer (strong sp) - the most clasically 'blocked' of the sx's, often exchanging intimacy in favor of the more immediate pleasures of the body. paradoxically the most wandering and restless of the sx/sp's. pulls from sp/so to ensure the sx flood is contained by the sp levee, which can provide a sense of stability at the expense of seeming put off by others. sex can mean a hollow satisfying of the instinct while more vulnerable feelings are suspended. quietly charged but muted, and can seem self pres first."

[Chae]

hoi willekeurig, hoe gaat ie ermee.

Difference would be most clear by just looking at the main instinct.
Sx is focussed on others, Sp is focussed on self.
Sx types : here the fuck i am in your face dude. even when they are shy, they tend to gravitate towards this. Let's burn something and have a drink to 4 oclock in the morning.
Sp types : my shoe hurts, i don't go out with you guys, i have to sleep at 10 oclock, my belly hurts, i only like half of the food they served, i leave the rest uneaten.

Agree with the first part, perfect, but the Sx description is geared towards Sx/So and the Sp one is Sp/So- influenced. We want the difference between Sp/Sx | Sx/Sp here; how would your descriptions look like for them?

here the fuck i am in your face dude. ---> Yea that's me you summarized my approach to everything

[maniac]

@Myst Sx firsts are more intense, sexual, obsessed. Just look at John in the pic. Sp/sx are more cat like and independent. They have sexual energy but more detached and don't get lost in sx. The stacking descriptions are usually bad. But I like these ones: http://enneasite.com/the-stackings/

[maniac]

Attachment 8887
Here, jees why was it so hard to find a functioning picture. :S

Anyway. How they're dressed I also interpret as a metaphor. John (sx first) is naked, bearing it all and being vulnerable, risking being destroyed. Yoko (sp/sx) is dressed and holding back, detached. There is a wall there.

[Pallas]

@Ghost How long have you spent in an English-speaking country? You don't seem to understand a word I say. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt now instead of assuming you're just a troll here to make us all laugh.

[maniac]

@Verbrannte, only on vacations? You don't seem to understand the main point of what ANYONE is saying here even if you understand the language. You're in your own ignorant mind

[Pallas]

@Verbrannte, only on vacations? You don't seem to understand the main point of what ANYONE is saying here even if you understand the language. You're in your own ignorant mind

Was zum Teufel

[InnerLust]

Sp/sx will hold back on getting into romantic relationships in order to take care of their education, health, getting a job/home etc. When those basics are fulfilled and stable, that's when they feel they can actually lose themselves in someone. But even then I think sp/sx is gonna be careful and only pursue partners that will be able to provide secure, long-term relationship.

[InnerLust]

"sx/sp mystifier (midrange) - the range where the mystique of the sx/sp stack is at its strongest. unconsciously attracts with intense eye contact and other sx feelers, but holds back enough to give them a kind of untouchable or hard to get close to quality. depending on their true intentions this can either frustrate their sx or reward their functional sp cooling system. like midrangers of all stacks, there's a seemingly casual approach to meeting their variant needs as the secondary instinct is kept both in play and at bay, and others may wonder what they really want.

sx/sp wanderer (strong sp) - the most clasically 'blocked' of the sx's, often exchanging intimacy in favor of the more immediate pleasures of the body. paradoxically the most wandering and restless of the sx/sp's. pulls from sp/so to ensure the sx flood is contained by the sp levee, which can provide a sense of stability at the expense of seeming put off by others. sex can mean a hollow satisfying of the instinct while more vulnerable feelings are suspended. quietly charged but muted, and can seem self pres first."

I think those range descriptions are bullshit. Holding back and being unconscious of attracting is so against being sx-dom. Casually approaching the needs of an instinct suggests very strongly that it's a secondary instinct. So yeah those descriptions are actually what sp/sx stacking is and if you follow them then you should reconsider your typing.

[maniac]

I've also seen this description of SX/SP: "If I can make (us) have an orderly & pleasing lifestyle, I can keep up and escalate all this merging/intensity." Which is actually SP/SX.
Weird how people get them confused. Only when I have my SX under control and is happy with it, I can focus on the rest of my life (SP).

[Myst]

@Myst Sx firsts are more intense, sexual, obsessed. Just look at John in the pic. Sp/sx are more cat like and independent. They have sexual energy but more detached and don't get lost in sx. The stacking descriptions are usually bad. But I like these ones: http://enneasite.com/the-stackings/

Detached and not lost in sx internally, or just an impression by the outsider?

Sp/sx will hold back on getting into romantic relationships in order to take care of their education, health, getting a job/home etc. When those basics are fulfilled and stable, that's when they feel they can actually lose themselves in someone. But even then I think sp/sx is gonna be careful and only pursue partners that will be able to provide secure, long-term relationship.

That's a good summary of sp>sx.

I think those range descriptions are bullshit. Holding back and being unconscious of attracting is so against being sx-dom. Casually approaching the needs of an instinct suggests very strongly that it's a secondary instinct. So yeah those descriptions are actually what sp/sx stacking is and if you follow them then you should reconsider your typing.

I find the descriptions rather good. You completely misinterpreted it if you think it's about "casually approaching" the needs of the sx instinct. It says SEEMINGLY.

Btw, they are from here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tual-Stackings

I've also seen this description of SX/SP: "If I can make (us) have an orderly & pleasing lifestyle, I can keep up and escalate all this merging/intensity." Which is actually SP/SX.
Weird how people get them confused. Only when I have my SX under control and is happy with it, I can focus on the rest of my life (SP).

The same source refers to sp/sx as: ""I can have merging/intensity without having to leave my orderly & pleasing lifestyle." (imagination, safe people and relationships, when the safety of these are challenged they withdraw)"

[InnerLust]

I find the descriptions rather good. You completely misinterpreted it if you think it's about "casually approaching" the needs of the sx instinct. It says SEEMINGLY.

The descriptions may sound good, but sp/sx can easily identify with them too and then mistype. I'd rather focus on how sx-firsts actually feel if their primary need is not fulfilled. Sx-doms self-worth is based on the ability to be in a relationship or just desirability in general. That's because they literally feel like shit without any immediate connection/chemistry and to attract a person that could potentially fulfill it, you obviously need to be desirable. It's like they're not complete without a person that they could click with instantly. Sx-doms are neurotic/obsessive about intimate relationships and often feel like failures in that area because it is so important for them. The dominant instinct either makes you feel the best or the worst.

[maniac]

Detached and not lost in sx internally, or just an impression by the outsider?

Hm. they can get lost in it, but it's not a drug problem like sx firsts who are addicted to the feeling of not quite having.
Like.. when we see someone we want. We are all for it and want it now. Our life revolves around it. When we fully get it and that person is finally begging at our feet, the fire runs out. Until they don't want us anymore. That feeling of masochism is the drug.

The same source refers to sp/sx as: ""I can have merging/intensity without having to leave my orderly & pleasing lifestyle." (imagination, safe people and relationships, when the safety of these are challenged they withdraw)"

My sp/sx friend said he doesn't even relate to that sp/sx one. Don't remember why though.

@Lustghost I feel like you are my alter ego that I don't know about, like in Fight Club. You even have "ghost" in your name. hmm..

[Myst]

The descriptions may sound good, but sp/sx can easily identify with them too and then mistype. I'd rather focus on how sx-firsts actually feel if their primary need is not fulfilled. Sx-doms self-worth is based on the ability to be in a relationship or just desirability in general. That's because they literally feel like shit without any immediate connection/chemistry and to attract a person that could potentially fulfill it, you obviously need to be desirable. It's like they're not complete without a person that they could click with instantly. Sx-doms are neurotic/obsessive about intimate relationships and often feel like failures in that area because it is so important for them. The dominant instinct either makes you feel the best or the worst.

Sure, that's a problem with all descriptions out there. It depends on the amount of the understanding the person reading them has, too. Understanding about the theory and about themselves.

Hm. they can get lost in it, but it's not a drug problem like sx firsts who are addicted to the feeling of not quite having.
Like.. when we see someone we want. We are all for it and want it now. Our life revolves around it. When we fully get it and that person is finally begging at our feet, the fire runs out. Until they don't want us anymore. That feeling of masochism is the drug.

I don't relate to the push-pull thing in relationships too strongly, I prefer a bit more consistency but it would of course be boring if everything was easy always. I relate to the rest.

My sp/sx friend said he doesn't even relate to that sp/sx one. Don't remember why though.

Well if you get to remember, feel free to post about it.

[maniac]

@Myst I think the sx/sp pretas metaphor is really good

Pretas are invisible to the human eye, but some believe they can be discerned by humans in certain mental states. They are described as human-like, but with sunken, mummified skin, narrow limbs, enormously distended bellies and long, thin necks. This appearance is a metaphor for their mental situation: they have enormous appetites, signified by their gigantic bellies, but a very limited ability to satisfy those appetites, symbolized by their slender necks.

Pretas dwell in the waste and desert places of the earth, and vary in situation according to their past karma. Some of them can eat a little, but find it very difficult to find food or drink. Others can find food and drink, but find it very difficult to swallow. Others find that the food they eat seems to burst into flames as they swallow it. Others see something edible or drinkable and desire it but it withers or dries up before their eyes. As a result, they are always hungry.

I thought this was a 4 thing before. @Aylen sx/sp + 4 is so much paain