How does it act, look like, differ from programme Si? They are both 4D functions after all...
How does it act, look like, differ from programme Si? They are both 4D functions after all...
Si Leading- Always telling others about what they should eat, concern for how themselves and others dress, constantly rearranging their homes.
Si demonstrative- Not giving a shit about seeing the dentist, eating right, disinfecting wounds, having check-ups but somehow still being a pillar of health. Don't talk about decor to others but get angry when you try to rearrange their things because they unconsciously proud of their ability to do this themselves.
Basically Si leading types constantly focused on their health and the design of their homes, while Si demonstratives seem not to give a shit but somehow still go on fine regardless.
Thanks.
I am not concerned what others should eat lol. It's their body! They can mutilate it for all I care! About the dress...as long as you're politely dressed, it's ok(don't go on a job interview in a short pants lol!). Further than that, I don't care. And...furniture? That's boring! If I have to fixsomething here or there, it's fine, but concern myself with furniture? O.O
As for demo: I don't eat healthy(and am proud of it!), I eat TASTY! And I don't understand that someone wouldn't disinfect his wound. It's not even socio related, it's common knowledge! For crying out loud. And yes, I am upset if someone moves a stuff from where I left it(even if it was in a chaotic heap). As my dad used to say "it's chaos, but it's my chaos". Ok, he was seriously not concerned with Si(didn't visit a doctor for 10 years and had these heaps of wires everywhere). And I don't care either, but you really should go to a doctor at least 1 time / year. You never know what's brewing inside you. Maybe nothing, maybe something irrelevent and maybe cancer. A dentist(or any other specialisation of medicine for that matter)-> you should go when you start to feel the disturbance(when pain starts, it's too late). Why'd you go otherwise? Just because 1 year passed? LOL!
Somehow I think that I am demo Si. Just for the measure:
The difference between creative and ign Se?
Just to elaborate further, SEIs are more likely to show concern for other's Si issues due to their ethical nature, while SLIs are more concerned with their own. A difference I noticed between Si demos and Si ignoring is that the Si igns are more likely to "slip up" on Si related problems than Si demos. For example, Si igns seem to more inclined towards risky activities towards their health such as overdosing on drugs or engaging in dangerous sports like base jumping.
In general, I find what happens with the demonstrative function is that its "insights" more or less rarely conform to the principle of the IE in question, instead being subservient to the dominant. When S acquires its own energy in LSI, it operates in Se fashion.
I gave the example earlier of ILE v LII and demonstrative Te... the ILE has stronger Te because their consciousness does not depreciate objects, and thus has more room for fixating on a logical fact as an object, as opposed to depreciating it as an object for structural relations it fits into.
Concretely, this can amount to a greater tendency to have accumulated facts not fitting into a coherent structure, suggesting various potentialities...while devaluing the actual principle of Te.
I explained this example because I'm just more familiar with it than the LSI/Si one, but I think analogously, there is a decent bit of accumulated Si data as part of their overall ST consciousness, just not much that isn't ultimately put into a logic-based framework.
When someone is sleeping and I start to feel that they are cold is that my Si role kicking in, for a moment, because I instantly remember what it feels like to wake up cold (I hate that feeling)? I wonder if that is why I put a blanket on them then go on with my own business without a second thought to their comfort.
It is something I do even for people I don't even know well. I have also watched them throw the blanket off immediately without even waking. Makes me realize I am just reacting to what I am feeling since they obviously did not want a blanket on them. Then I look at the thermostat and see that it isn't that cold anyway for most people. I have a low threshold for temperature changes and pain.
I am not always sure if my perception of these things are right by normal standards. When a doctor asks me to rate pain on a scale of 1 to 10 I often rate higher than the average person or so I have been told. After a surgery a few years ago I required so much pain medication the doctor asked if I was addicted to opiates. I wasn't at the time. The doctor could tell by my stress levels and response that I needed more and gave it to me.
Weird thing is that I take little notice when I am comfortable unless I run my hand over something soft like a blanket and realize it feels nice. I also just got a memory foam for my bed and the first few days I was all impressed with the comfort level but now it seems I have adjusted to it and it is not something I easily differentiate from what it felt like before. Like I forgot what it felt like before now so can no longer feel the comparison like I did.
Oh and I don't really want to eat most of the time since it feels more like a chore than a pleasure. There are a few things I do like though and I can conjure up the taste and texture if I really focus in on it. I have an easier time recalling intense sensory experiences and when I do I can have physical reactions in my body so I try not to focus on them because it can get uncomfortable.
I am just curious about what Si feels like to a base or creative user.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Demonstrative: Vital
Base: Mental
- Vital functions - belonging to the vital (passive) ring of Model A. These functions are subconscious and subject to little conscious control. The world becomes known through own feelings and experiences, through a projection inside. The vital functions are characterized by subjectivity, idiosyncratic representation. The result is usually embodied in actions, through 1-signal system. The arguments are made from first-person.
- Mental functions - belonging to to the mental (active) ring of Model A. These functions are controlled by consciousness. The world and self is seen through these functions as if from outside, striving for objectivity and universality. The given information is impersonal, manifested in verbal form, on level of 2-signal system.
Demonstrative: Producing
Base: Accepting
- Producing functions - These function as means of changing the reality. Being located in the model after the accepting functions, producing functions find solutions to the tasks set before them. Thus, they do not merely reflect the reality, as accepting functions do, but generate an altered, imagined picture of the world, which serves as a solution of their tasks.
- Accepting functions - These function as means of learning about the surrounding world. These are the first functions in the model to receive information from the outside. Their task is to obtain a model of reality, their goal - to understand what is transpiring.
Demonstrative: Contact
Base: Inert
- Contact functions - These functions are very mobile and able to manage their state well. It is through these functions that a primary reaction to an outside impact is developed. They produce an initial processing of information received, they also generate final decisions. Thus, their activity is determined by what's transpiring around or current tasks, among which they can easily switch.
- Inert (reference) functions - These functions are rather rigid in their functioning; they are almost immune to internal changes. They require an external impulse of sufficient strength so that something in them changes. They are characterized by fairly long response, and often a fixate on the state to which the external impact has led. Thus they tend towards relative permanence.
Demonstrative: Non-Verbal
Base: Verbal
- Non-verbal (working, cooperative) functions belong to the blocks of super-ego and id. Aspects of these functions are not negotiable, prefer to receive help through action, deeds. Activity is limited to immediate needs and demands of society.
- Verbal (discursive) functions (or overvalued) belong to clusters of ego and super-Id. They provide the active exchange of information between people. Information on these functions is interesting, and easily discussed. They tend to self-development.
Demonstrative ESI Si -- http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1073200
I looked it up and not much available as far as descriptions but I think I can get an overall idea of what it means. I just really wanted to hear more from Si base and creative to understand what they are actually experiencing inside themselves. Si seems like some kind of internal intuition of senses but I am not sure if they have the ability to feel the inner sensations of others too. I guess that might be some kind of sensory empathy. I do have that but mostly it feels unpleasant. I know I prefer being in my mind over my body. My body feels more limited and I feel like I need a guide to operate it. People with strong Se serve as a guide sometimes.
When I was younger I had a doctor refuse to do an elective surgery on me because of my oversensitivity to pain and and allergies. After our consultation she came right out and said she would never operate on me and suggested I did not go to someone else to do that particular surgery. I didn't because I got a feeling she knew something I didn't. I wonder if she was using Si to determine that. I took her pretty serious after imagining what it might feel like if I did it. I felt like I could not breath. It was like being buried alive. The whole thing was horrible to experience through Si. I am happy I chose not to do it now and happy with my nose. It gives me a unique look and people of my ethnicity recognize me as one of their own. hahah I don't want to think about all the things that could have gone wrong. I wanted to fix something that wasn't broke and because I listened to her I think I spared myself from experiencing something really awful. I just trusted her. I want to add that she did not scare me. She gave me a reality check.
Descriptions make Si sound like a party.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I can see why you think demonstrative Si for yourself, I'm kinda really like this myself.
Lol @ chaos thing, btw.
I actually give a bit more shit than that about my health, that description of Si demonstrative by you is overly exaggerated but it's definitely true that I don't verbalize these things and don't pay much conscious attention in general. I do look like I don't give a shit often but I actually take care of all important issues in some really reliable automatic -unconscious- way. The not important issues...well I truly don't give a shit about those lol.
As for getting angry like that, yep, very much true, though I can't say if that's Si demonstrative or Se creative or what.
AgreeA difference I noticed between Si demos and Si ignoring is that the Si igns are more likely to "slip up" on Si related problems than Si demos. For example, Si igns seem to more inclined towards risky activities towards their health such as overdosing on drugs or engaging in dangerous sports like base jumping.
Though I can't say I never did anything risky, lol, I'm just probably a bit more calculated than the Si ignoring/Se base types
That's a very good way to put it. I would say the demonstrative is like the basic auxiliary in jungian theory, same orientation as the dominant function and subservient to it. The creative function, well, that's an auxiliary that's more independent in a sense than the demonstrative and thus provides for completeness of the ego, I think... so you wouldn't be an extreme introvert or extreme extravert. Hmm just a thought though, it seems logical but I don't know if it's universally true like this.
I think both examples are fine, sure.I gave the example earlier of ILE v LII and demonstrative Te... the ILE has stronger Te because their consciousness does not depreciate objects, and thus has more room for fixating on a logical fact as an object, as opposed to depreciating it as an object for structural relations it fits into.
Concretely, this can amount to a greater tendency to have accumulated facts not fitting into a coherent structure, suggesting various potentialities...while devaluing the actual principle of Te.
I explained this example because I'm just more familiar with it than the LSI/Si one, but I think analogously, there is a decent bit of accumulated Si data as part of their overall ST consciousness, just not much that isn't ultimately put into a logic-based framework.
@Myst yeah so like, the aux has a dual nature almost, because it's both "opposite" the dominant in the sense of perceiving-judging yet it also can complement it.
To just talk generic Jung and not get into the more detailed socionics model, this is e.g. relevant in a super-logic oriented thinking dominant, with aux sensation, where sure, they aim to be empirical, but they're pretty removed from non-logical content (raw direct experience and so forth).
It seems to me a reasonable argument to make that if the aux is going to get its own energy, without usurping the dominant, it might be that one has to develop its opposite attitude to a degree, which is the explanation for why the creative seems to actually work in a lot of cases.
Yeah the thing is Jung's views on the aux's "consciousness" were stated kind of trickily, like there's two things going on
-- the aux he sometimes portrayed as "conscious" in the sense of becoming conscious by working towards the dominant agenda
-- yet he also potrayed it as more on the unconscious side in the sense that it (to the extent it's an aux, and not a second "mode") doesn't operate for its own principle's sake
The latter's presumably what we're both seeing as the demonstrative, and the former is what we're seeing as when it gains its own energy.
But the funny thing is I think to Jung's perspective, in both cases the aux shared the attitude of the dominant, and the two cases were more or less two different ways of using the terminology unfortunately.
The case when he called the aux unconscious seems to be the case it was opposite in attitude.
But afaik nowadays I'm leaning something more along the lines of what we're both saying, in that I prefer saying when the two top functions are both in the same attitude, and significantly differentiated, more likely there are two "modes" going on.
The reason being, I get the sense when initially, dom is one attitude, aux is (unconscious) in another attitude, seems to me to raise it to consciousness, 2 things need to happen:
1) naturally since the main attitude is in one direction, say introverted, the demonstrative needs to be a reasonably active process, even if its perspective's de-emphasied
2) the portion that was unconscious and in the opposite attitude need be raised to consciousness as is, since that opposition of attitude was needed for the aux to maintain its own independence.
Lol sorry this was longer than expected, and kind of rehashes some things. Just mentioning it because strongly have felt Jung was hard to read on this point
Last edited by chemical; 07-12-2015 at 09:32 PM.