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Thread: what type is this girl (Kat's type)

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    Default Hello, I am back - derail (continue the bitchfest here, please)

    WTF.

    This person is NOT a NF by any means. ESE-Si at best.

    "Lilith"...oh really. I cannot grasps the exact connotations of this name, but all in all this figure is used as a nice, but pathetically (self-)subversive image boost. The OP has absolutely nothing "Lilithian" in her veins. Maybe unrelated, but any attempt at explaining Enneagram and/or Socionics is bound to fail.

    Her skin also looks awful btw.

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    Why fucking flowers

    not in the literal sens plz

    wtf, put a mask on, or make up yourself...

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    why TULIPS and not ORCHIDS or Japanese CHERRY BLOSSOM or LILIES or holy fragile ruby ROSES ftw.

    Sorry, I'm in Se mode right now. Fuck you all. I may be more tolerant next time if you don't exaggerate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agni View Post
    why TULIPS and not ORCHIDS or Japanese CHERRY BLOSSOM or LILIES or holy fragile ruby ROSES ftw.

    Sorry, I'm in Se mode right now. Fuck you all. I may be more tolerant next time if you don't exaggerate.
    lolol and you're Fi-dom, wtf socionics. Yo Solaris be Fe-dom so you can be tolerant

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    I like how there is no typicism and no judgement in these posts! Glad to be back!

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    since when people here need permission to be judgemental? that's a new one LMAO

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    lol if you wanna call it like that ROFL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    WTF.

    This person is NOT a NF by any means. ESE-Si at best.

    "Lilith"...oh really. I cannot grasps the exact connotations of this name, but all in all this figure is used as a nice, but pathetically (self-)subversive image boost. The OP has absolutely nothing "Lilithian" in her veins. Maybe unrelated, but any attempt at explaining Enneagram and/or Socionics is bound to fail.

    Her skin also looks awful btw.
    Nice declaration of ethical bankruptcy. Particularly on proclaiming hierarchy of types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    Nice declaration of ethical bankruptcy. Particularly on proclaiming hierarchy of types.
    The way she presents herself as something/someone she is not is quite *unethical*, yes. She claimed she was a IEI or EII in her videos, as far as I recall -- which she is not. I should probably feel some degree of pity for her impulse of wanting to be those types, though...because this "youtube celebrity" is overall pathetic enough. Unfortunately this doesn't happen and it would be very unethical to pretend I do.
    Besides adopting a persona that only shoots her in the foot is also quite unwise, not only fake (hence rather unethical), especially when she clearly has nothing in common with said mythological figure. Sadly "internal human contradictions" are not your expertise, but it's admirable that you think you can observe a "type hierarchy" in what I said. It definitely is. I'm also vaguely touched that you feel the drive to "defend" your dual. It humanizes you to a certain extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    The way she presents herself as something/someone she is not is quite *unethical*, yes. She claimed she was a IEI or EII in her videos, as far as I recall -- which she is not. I should probably feel some degree of pity for her impulse of wanting to be those types, though...because this "youtube celebrity" is overall pathetic enough. Unfortunately this doesn't happen and it would be very unethical to pretend I do.
    Besides adopting a persona that only shoots her in the foot is also quite unwise, not only fake (hence rather unethical), especially when she clearly has nothing in common with said mythological figure. Sadly "internal human contradictions" are not your expertise, but it's admirable that you think you can observe a "type hierarchy" in what I said. It definitely is. I'm also vaguely touched that you feel the drive to "defend" your dual. It humanizes you to a certain extent.
    How do you know what type she is? Socionics or otherwise?

    BTW re the youtube channel, I thought about something like this at first, but then I realised she's got off her ass and done something, youtube doesn't cost me anything to watch so good on her.

    Ugh i'm getting involved in a conversation about someone I don't even know.

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    We've already had a thread with plenty of videos dedicated especially to her. I think some of the Beta NFs questioned the self-typing she proudly carried in public through her youtube channel .... but without checking it again, I don't recall exactly how it started. She is obviously a Feeler, but absolutely not an Intuitive.
    Her extroversion and lack of Fi/Ti may prevent her from too much introspection though ...so it's quite understandable that she kept nonchalantly and ingenuously spreading erroneous opinions and interpretations of sociotype, duality etc.

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    Ah so it was the user Lilith pretending the person in the videos was a stranger ... oder...? Or she actually spelled it out at some point. lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    The way she presents herself as something/someone she is not is quite *unethical*, yes. She claimed she was a IEI or EII in her videos, as far as I recall -- which she is not. I should probably feel some degree of pity for her impulse of wanting to be those types, though...because this "youtube celebrity" is overall pathetic enough. Unfortunately this doesn't happen and it would be very unethical to pretend I do.
    Besides adopting a persona that only shoots her in the foot is also quite unwise, not only fake (hence rather unethical), especially when she clearly has nothing in common with said mythological figure. Sadly "internal human contradictions" are not your expertise, but it's admirable that you think you can observe a "type hierarchy" in what I said. It definitely is. I'm also vaguely touched that you feel the drive to "defend" your dual. It humanizes you to a certain extent.
    In response to my particular criticism of you, you provide unrelated criticism of 3rd person? Is that supposed to be a defense? deflection? are you four?
    And the criticism that you have is that she mistypes herself. Well, for your information being wrong is not generally considered "unethical" it has to be being wrong in a socially offensive way for example:
    Socionic theory has this pretty amazing quality that not only does it distinguish types of people but explains how the differences in perspectives/ informational metabolism has place and need for other types and so feeds forward in to informational metabolism of socion/society as a whole. A concrete theory that sees and explains equal value in range of significant differences that often enough divide people... What you have to say is that someone is X type at best. Projecting your shitty personal prejudice hierarchy to a system that has none.

    Still think that this is about OP or that you put ESE at X?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    It humanizes you to a certain extent.
    Something you noticed because people are normally dehumanized in your eyes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    In response to my particular criticism of you, you provide unrelated criticism of 3rd person? Is that supposed to be a defense? deflection? are you four?
    And the criticism that you have is that she mistypes herself. Well, for your information being wrong is not generally considered "unethical" it has to be being wrong in a socially offensive way for example:
    Socionic theory has this pretty amazing quality that not only does it distinguish types of people but explains how the differences in perspectives/ informational metabolism has place and need for other types and so feeds forward in to informational metabolism of socion/society as a whole. A concrete theory that sees and explains equal value in range of significant differences that often enough divide people... What you have to say is that someone is X type at best. Projecting your shitty personal prejudice hierarchy to a system that has none.

    Still think that this is about OP or that you put ESE at X?


    Something you noticed because people are normally dehumanized in your eyes?
    Your criticism of me has no value, because you are hardly a person whose opinion I respect. I do encourage you however to get involved in discussions when they don't focus on your dual (aka "whom you think you should like, because Socionics says so").

    And yes, I provided you with details about my own general criticism of that person, because you seemed to lack awareness in that respect. It is only fair, I don't know why you make a show of it all.

    I made *no hierarchy of types*, Mr. Ti base so/sp who feeds on misunderstandings. I implied her most probable type is ESE-Si ... it was part of an older discussion. Check out her thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...e-is-this-girl. ILE comes next. Sorry again for making you butt in with random arguments against what you think devalues your dual.

    To answer your only interesting and valid point here: maybe. But people often dehumanize themselves in my eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    I made *no hierarchy of types*, Mr. Ti base so/sp who feeds on misunderstandings. I implied her most probable type is ESE-Si
    You are claiming that by"at best" you mean "most likely"? Well, I guess I would have to believe you just suck at English if it is foreign language to you. Is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    You are claiming that by"at best" you mean "most likely"? Well, I guess I would have to believe you just suck at English if it is foreign language to you. Is it?
    In that particular context it referred to the best or most favorable guess/scenario. To answer your extra question: it's part of what I studied as well as part of what I happen to teach. I hope you are not really claiming only native speakers can have/reach advanced knowledge of a language ..because that would be very creepy thinking and of course a very weak premise. It's also against the basic principles of my very profession and I don't want to think that low of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    In that particular context it referred to the best or most favorable guess/scenario. To answer your extra question: it's part of what I studied as well as part of what I happen to teach. I hope you are not really claiming only native speakers can have/reach advanced knowledge of a language ..because that would be very creepy thinking and of course a very weak premise. It's also against the basic principles of my very profession and I don't want to think that low of you.
    Some mistakes are just ones you expect native speakers not to make while pretty much anything can happen with foreign language. And now we know that there was no mistake with language.
    You said ~ "Not NF. ESE at most favorable." Implying that NF typing is more favorable than ESE typing and that there are typing's less favorable than ESE. Revealing not in a subtle manner ordering of types in better off/better? to worse off/worse? dimension. Such arrangements can be called hierarchy.

    hierarchy: 1.any system of persons or things ranked one above another. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hierarchy)

    Things you said you did not do two times. What is the misunderstanding?

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    Oh when you bring up type probability through an examination of someone's personality, looks, and behavior... do you automatically make a hierarchy? I didn't say "ESE is worse than EII/IEI, but better than SEI/ILE/whatever."

    Anyway something is wrong here. I don't know why this man appears stuck in a derail with me instead of engaging in savory and productive conversations with his beloved dual. It must be more fun than proving Socionics right or at least testing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    most favorable guess/scenario.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    ESE-Si at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    I didn't say "ESE is worse than EII/IEI, but better than SEI/ILE/whatever."
    How stupid are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    How stupid are you?
    How stupid and absurd are *you*? Ranking my estimations of someone's type according to their chances of being spot-on = making a hierarchy of systems/persons.
    Regardless of your Sociotype, you are totally abhorrent, so why don't you change your focus a bit ...how about commenting on your potential dual, since this is the topic of the thread.
    Last edited by Amber; 12-09-2014 at 01:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    How stupid and absurd are *you*? Ranking my estimations of someone's type according to their chances of being spot-on = making a hierarchy of systems/persons.
    As a teacher of English I am sure you know that "worst, worse, better, best" are comparative forms of adjectives "good" and "bad" not "likely" or "probable". I also suspect you to be smart enough to know that that probability and favorability are different things. Actually the phrase "at best" specifically negates question of probability by saying that regardless of what something ends up to be the best variant that is at all possible is such.
    The variant that you are faithful believer in your ability to bullshit out of things is what keeps me at this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    Regardless of your Sociotype, you are totally abhorrent for me, so do yourself a favor and change your focus ...how about commenting on your potential dual, since this is the topic of the thread.
    I certainly am not "for you".
    Don't tell me what to do. Just like you, I enjoy tearing at people sometimes just for less petty reasons.
    The ESE typing seems unlikely to me but i will keep it in consideration, thnx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    As a teacher of English I am sure you know that "worst, worse, better, best" are comparative forms of adjectives "good" and "bad" not "likely" or "probable". I also suspect you to be smart enough to know that that probability and favorability are different things. Actually the phrase "at best" specifically negates question of probability by saying that regardless of what something ends up to be the best variant that is at all possible is such.
    The variant that you are faithful believer in your ability to bullshit out of things is what keeps me at this.



    I certainly am not "for you".
    Don't tell me what to do. Just like you, I enjoy tearing at people sometimes just for less petty reasons.
    The ESE typing seems unlikely to me but i will keep it in consideration, thnx.
    Dude, comparative forms are something one learns around level A1. And usually from people who have a diploma in the field. You definitely don't. You are embarrassing in your cheap power trip ... what makes you feel so bad in the first place? Your pathetic dual?
    As for the rest, I hope you realize that I trust dictionaries more than your BS.

    How could you know what I enjoy when you are a clueless Ti base. In any case I'm not very fond of talking to people I consider to be repelling idiots.
    Last edited by Amber; 12-09-2014 at 04:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    Actually the phrase "at best" specifically negates question of probability by saying that regardless of what something ends up to be the best variant that is at all possible is such.
    .
    ..... just because you made me look up stuff in over ten dictionaries with your BS: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/best

    at best
    : under the most favorable circumstances
    http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionarie...english/best_3
    http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dic...nglish/at-best

    How does this meaning negate probability. It implies probability and an estimation of a "best case scenario" along a spectrum of possible events/results that are considered. You are totally insane or just trolling.

    Besides, there's a definite article you should have placed in your sentence, if you had wanted it to sound correct:"negates the question of probability" (or "questions of probability"). Additionally you should say "you are a faithful believer" instead of "you are faithful believer". Are you really a native speaker..?
    Last edited by Amber; 12-09-2014 at 05:50 PM.

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    I guess it is good that this is about use of language.

    Probability and favorability are different things. Yes?

    (http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/)
    favorable:
    1. making people have a good opinion of someone or something
    2. positive and showing your good opinion of someone or something
    3. favorable (to/for someone/something)
    good for something and making it likely to be successful or have an advantage
    synonym advantageous

    probable:
    likely to happen, to exist, or to be true

    — at best
    : under the most favorable circumstances

    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    It implies probability and an estimation of a "best case scenario" along a spectrum of possible events/results that are considered.
    "best case scenario"-most favorable scenario can be least likely, most likely or anything in between so in correct usage nothing is said about probability or it is even implied that probability does not matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    I guess it is good that this is about use of language.

    Probability and favorability are different things. Yes?

    (http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/)
    favorable:
    1. making people have a good opinion of someone or something
    2. positive and showing your good opinion of someone or something
    3. favorable (to/for someone/something)
    good for something and making it likely to be successful or have an advantage
    synonym advantageous

    probable:
    likely to happen, to exist, or to be true

    — at best
    : under the most favorable circumstances


    "best case scenario"-most favorable scenario can be least likely, most likely or anything in between so in correct usage nothing is said about probability or it is even implied that probability does not matter.
    Is this person my Conflictor or just absolutely fucked up.

    This is an example of correct usage according to the Oxford dictionary:We can't arrive before Friday at best. http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionarie...english/best_3
    Meaning: "we cannot arrive before Friday ...and there may be even worse cases, so we are also likely to arrive later. "

    The difference from the statement I made is that it involved an even higher degree of probability, since I didn't refer to something I (know I) can do or not.. but to what I estimated someone's type to be. She must be an Esfj. She is probably an Esfj. She could also be other types, but by no means an INF_, just something starting from Esfj, Entp, Estp etc.

    In any case you have already discredited yourself considerably through those 3 Grammar mistakes you made. As a native speaker, I mean.... because I do generally start from the premise that a native speaker may have high awareness of nuances apart from a very broad vocabulary. However your credibility is now almost zero, because either you are not actually a native speaker (and you're just bullshitting), or you are one who has less knowledge than me ...probably because you speak stuff you heard on the fly in your environment instead of Standard English.
    Last edited by Amber; 12-09-2014 at 05:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    In any case you have already discredited yourself considerably through those 3 Grammar mistakes you made. As a native speaker, I mean.... because I do generally start from the premise that a native speaker may have high awareness of nuances apart from a very broad vocabulary. However your credibility is now almost zero, because either you are not actually a native speaker (and you're just bullshitting), or you are one who has less knowledge than me ...probably because you speak stuff you heard on the fly in your environment instead of Standard English
    At no point did I claim to be native English speaker, nor do I criticize people for grammar (I don't care about such things and it would be silly of me since I suck at it). What I am on about is what you say not how you say it, but since you deny obvious things the question of whether you are capable saying what you mean in English comes up.

    Lets try different approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    In that particular context it referred to the best or most favorable guess/scenario
    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    — at best
    : under the most favorable circumstances
    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    ...and there may be even worse cases
    Simple questions after all that.

    How is ESE more favorable scenario/guess/case and what is it more favorable than? Just possible examples will suffice.

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    Default what type is this girl

    Here I describe Te vulnerable and what it actually does.
    Whenever someone jumps on an IEI with definitions and corrections of stuff believing they are helping, what they are actually doing is causing pain to someone that cannot defend themselves. Doing it on purpose could even reach cruelty don't you think?

    SEIs, how do you feel about it?



    feel free to follow my channel (see signature)



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    you are Gamma NT ENTj>INTp
    Last edited by Zero11; 01-20-2015 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero11 View Post
    you are Gamma NT ENTj>INTp
    Can you elaborate on how you perceive her use of functions? How did you decide this type for her?

    Edit: @Kat I am watching now but will probably have to watch again later since it is taking me a long time to wake up today.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero11 View Post
    you are Gamma NT ENTj>INTp

    My apologhies, but no, thanks.

    She's my Conflictor or / and I supervise her for some obscure reasons against my will.

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    Whoah, I think my polr was just hit cause I felt a reaction when I read "Gamma" and I wanted to defend @Kat. If outside information contradicts what I "know" I get a bit prickly.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Whoah, I think my polr was just hit cause I felt a reaction when I read "Gamma" and I wanted to defend @Kat. If outside information contradicts what I "know" I get a bit prickly.
    I agree not Gamma.

    And will add not NT.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

  33. #113
    Bless Mother Earth BurningIce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Can you elaborate on how you perceive her use of functions? How did you decide this type for her?

    Edit: @Kat I am watching now but will probably have to watch again later since it is taking me a long time to wake up today.
    To the edit part, okay ^_^ lol

    To the rest, it's easy how it was decided, by being wrong

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Can you elaborate on how you perceive her use of functions? How did you decide this type for her?

    Edit: @Kat I am watching now but will probably have to watch again later since it is taking me a long time to wake up today.
    zero has his/her own system going that he/she is "calling" socionics.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna View Post
    My apologhies, but no, thanks.

    She's my Conflictor or / and I supervise her for some obscure reasons against my will.
    Nope, don't play snowhite, it may work with others but not with me. You expect me to use Te, and what you are doing is harrassing me in every corner to get it, which is not gonna happen, live with it.

    It's useless that you keep attacking my type to get me to explain why I'm correctly typed because it's not gonna happen (aka like I said, you're not gonna get Te out of me).

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    Here I describe Te vulnerable and what it actually does.
    [COLOR=#333333]Whenever someone jumps on an IEI with definitions and corrections of stuff believing they are helping, what they are actually doing is causing pain to someone that cannot defend themselves. Doing it on purpose could even reach cruelty don't you think?

    SEIs, how do you feel about it?
    Just last week, I experienced a hit from my boss. I was at a talk, nothing fancy, just one of my colleagues giving a powerpoint presentation on a certain topic. Something there (a term) confused me, and since the audience was a small group of people i know well and feel comfortable with, I decided to ask for clarification. Well, turns out that term is defined a certain way, and my boss (who was sitting near me) pointed that out to me. That being pointed out to me (perhaps in that way--but she seemed to be trying to do it "nicely"), even though it was seemingly inconsequential, made me feel extremely embarrassed and insecure. I'm pretty sure she thinks well of me anyway, but that little thing made me feel like i ruined my credibility or something (and made me feel incompetent). Will be a lot more cautious about asking questions next time...
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    Just last week, I experienced a hit from my boss. I was at a talk, nothing fancy, just one of my colleagues giving a powerpoint presentation on a certain topic. Something there (a term) confused me, and since the audience was a small group of people i know well and feel comfortable with, I decided to ask for clarification. Well, turns out that term is defined a certain way, and my boss (who was sitting near me) pointed that out to me. That being pointed out to me (perhaps in that way--but she seemed to do it "nicely") made me feel extremely embarrassed and insecure. I'm pretty sure she thinks well of me anyway, but that little thing made me feel like i ruined my credibility or something (and made me feel retarded). Will be a lot more cautious about asking questions next time...
    Yes! I see it sticks!

    Trying to expose the least possible seems a good tactic, it's a matter of being hones with ourselves, I personally think everything necessary is to be aware of our weaknesses. Once we know how they work, recognizing our limits makes our life easier.
    Like if I'm asked to explain my typing, what would it cost me to simply answer providing explanations? Simple, that it would expose me to things that hurt me and it would be wrong for me to do it, so I'm honest with myself and I accept it.

  38. #118
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    zero has his/her own system going that he/she is "calling" socionics.
    Uh-oh!

     



    "Excuse me, was you saying something? Uh uh, you can't tell me nothing. You can't tell me nothing." <-- how stubborn I feel when I think I know something. It is hard for me to be convinced once I made my mind up. Unless it sparks my intuition to see further and I experience it for myself. I have to admit I was humbled by @Kat when she first joined. I thought I knew something but she sparked me to look deeper.

    Out of all the polr(s) Te is not the worst to have but it does spark conflict at times.



    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    Nope, don't play snowhite, it may work with others but not with me. You expect me to use Te, and what you are doing is harrassing me in every corner to get it, which is not gonna happen, live with it.

    It's useless that you keep attacking my type to get me to explain why I'm correctly typed because it's not gonna happen (aka like I said, you're not gonna get Te out of me).
    lord, you are really dumb.

    I connect with you on absolutely no line of thinking. You are most likely my opposing quadra. You have nothing to tell me - how could I expect you to justify your self-type?! I just wish you disappeared off my sight with your bad embarrassing videos, so foreign you are to me. Nothing you could ever say would make me change my mind about your alleged IEI type.

    **it doesn't mean there are no Alphas I like, but in this particular case crass lack of self-awareness+stealth multiply the slight miscommunication that may derive from intertype relations.

  40. #120
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    @Sienna: oooh! the butthurt! OMG how can I live now that I know you're actively offended and angered? Oh wait... I don't give a shit about Fi LMAO

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