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Thread: Which IE is this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    yeah I'm not sure of their correct typings, and less sure about the ISTx, he scored ISTP in MBTI but I've always thought that was off, he was more TiSe, more organized, methodical, and more risk seeking, opportunity taking than an ISTP. He's too well mannered and gossipy to be an ISTp, but maybe my ideas are just a bit off. agreed tho, that Ne seeking makes sense for what I said, but then, I was vague, I don't know what happened to him exactly, something like panic attacks, diagnosis was "maybe it's stress", and he couldn't figure out where that stress was coming from, so probably it had something to do with a feeling of underestimation/frustration in his workplace, and at the same time knowing that there's best out and time is ticking and it's better to figure out what to do with one's life... but I'm guessing here.

    I'm pretty confident in the ESI typings instead, more or less, and even there, they too could fit in some Si qualities, sure, and Ne seeking would solve all in a moment, but we can't just attribute stress motives to Si types. My ESI sister got a heart checking device to test her daily pressure at 22, that was not from indulging in Si, more probably in overdoing Se; the other ESI is living a life he doesn't want to live because of some medical conditions that have an effect on his psyche, so yeah, there's that... possibilities can even be a source of stress when placed badly, perhaps.
    I wasn't trying to say that only Si types can have stress. I was just commenting on the Ne part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    This sounds like some semantics difference in terms of the phrasing "meaningful". I'm thinking you are thinking of how Deltas want these personal growth related and thus deeply personally meaningful goals or whatever, I didn't mean that kind of meaningful, I meant the Ni version of envisioning something especially if it's a big enough something and going for that. And that is what is meaningful in a way. Idk what word you'd use there, feel free to use some other word for it if you want lol, but this is what I meant.
    I considered editing to suggest it might be about semantics. Where Ni is concerned ...

    I think I am more about holding a vision of something, or helping people to model outcomes so they can have more or better choices. And this vision or model can evolve as things change, and it also involves a lot of contingency thinking. I don’t mind concrete goals, btw, only how they are developed and how rapidly they can respond to failure. I often work backwards from a worst-case scenario.

    So it’s actually the case that those meaningful goals that some people come up with make it hard for me to function because they’re not very adaptable. I’m supposed to adapt to the goal, and I find that really hard to do while retaining any of my own strengths, though it does seem functional in a work environment for about a week at a time. Maybe even a few weeks, but there will usually come a point where the traditional goal dork is stuck on a plan of doom.
    Last edited by golden; 07-26-2018 at 01:56 AM.
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    Vaultdweller: Re. Goals, check out Tactical vs. strategic. Yeah, yeah, Reinin traits are heresy, said it before Sol could but I'm a heretic so it's okay. Anyway, tactics/strategics is one that is more nicely fleshed-out than some of the others. (Sidenote, I don't suggest using Reinin for typing oneself for various reasons, but some of the traits explain interesting divisions) I'm very much tactical myself. Some of the things you said made me think you might be more strategic, but take a look for yourself: LINK

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    I feel like I may have done a poor job explaining my meaning. I respond very well to stress and requirements to jump in and do the hard work. I'm at my highest point when I'm kicking a job's ass. It's when there isn't any real work to be done, the job feels like low-agency drudgery in a rut, and like I'm not achieving either a short-term or long-term goal like I'm stuck in stasis that I start feeling lethargic, start eating poorly, and sleeping a lot.

    Idleness or thumb-twiddling like that just feels "wrong."
    Typical Beta issues of when you're not pulling against some challenge (together) you turn into a lifeless puddle.

    That and your enneagram type seems to be off, which is precluding a ton of insight into this.

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    Everyone is saying that it's Ni/Se or beta. . . but is there really anyone who doesn't get depressed when they feel their life is on a never-ending treadmill? Really?

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Everyone is saying that it's Ni/Se or beta. . . but is there really anyone who doesn't get depressed when they feel their life is on a never-ending treadmill? Really?
    Yep, I know a few people like that. They don't realize their life is a treadmill. Perhaps they see something the rest of us don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Everyone is saying that it's Ni/Se or beta. . . but is there really anyone who doesn't get depressed when they feel their life is on a never-ending treadmill? Really?

    uh yes, especially given that literally everyone's life is a never ending treadmill, which is the sisyphean burden of existence. As silke says they don't realize their life is a treadmill [1]. the bottom line is it just depends on how you frame the question. if the question is does any type have a monopoly on depression clearly the answer is no, if for no other reason than strictly speaking depression is by definition not type related; without even having to go into some kind of empirical analysis, we can say depression and type are orthogonal by design. so in some sense it is trivially true that any type can get depressed and its not type related. that is just given. with that in mind, the more relevant question is who gets depressed in the manner as described by OP. in other words, who personally describes depressive states as being caused in terms of a sense of time and momentum or lacktherof. Tallmo's line of response is simply responding to a different question than the one OP asked but has left that step implicit in his answer and people are taking it up as if that's the question all along (a form of frame shifting, not necessarily intentional, that few have seem to caught). seeing life as a treadmill is very much a consequence of Ni, but also Ti. treadmill just becomes a shorthand image for the gears of life itself, that when stalled, indicate a problem, and that problem gives rise to distress, which functions to generate tension, in order to torque the gears back into motion. depression becomes useful then and "treatment" often is counterproductive toward a certain kind of life certain types find fulfilling, i.e.: the one where satisfaction comes from overcoming, not unearned sensations, good for their own sake. truth is what follows from the effort, like Nietzsche says all truths are bloody truths. this bloodless existence of anti depressants are hateful mockeries of a meaningful life that is meaningless enough already in virtue of being a repetitive uphill slog. the task is to face it with dignity not deny it via drugs or other pleasant illusions. that this denial is baseline for some, as silke points out, means from their point of view, not denying it, i.e.: the sisyphean narrative, is symptomatic itself of a pathological mindset and in need of treatment, which was precisely falsehope's stance [2]. thus you have two separate and distinct ways of viewing the world, and the question becomes not whether anyone gets depressed, people from both camps do, but what is the nature of this depression in the eyes of each


    [1] by this I mean they would concede, on some merely intellectual level, that life is an inherent mechanistic struggle, but they would not feel the burden, because to perceive it is to perceive the weight of time itself. its the difference in feeling resulting from being saddled with something light vs crushing. they both would claim to feel it, but it would entail two entirely different meanings. in other words, feeling your life is on a never ending treadmill is only a depressive statement in the mouths of some

    [2] pathological from the point of view of some, but perhaps normal for Ni
    Last edited by Bertrand; 07-26-2018 at 05:37 AM.

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    @1INT Vault Dweller

    THIS LINK is a good non-socionics description of how tactical types manage goals. The tactical types naturally take a systems approach, rather than a goal-approach. Anyone can adopt any kind of system to work under obviously, I'm just talking about where your mindset naturally goes.

    @Bertrand
    i.e.: the one where satisfaction comes from overcoming, not unearned sensations, good for their own sake.
    Yes, okay, I suppose there are some people who are more pleasure-minded. I tend to forget they exist sometimes lol, because for me, overcoming is what life is about. It's about conquering that next obstacle, becoming stronger, meeting challenges. There has to be progress in some way. The one time that I suffered from deep depression was when I felt I was on an endless loop, and didn't see any way out of it, no light at the end of the tunnel, just endless tunnel, every day a repeat of the last, and no way I could see to get off that treadmill and move forward. It's easy to believe that because that's how I experienced it, that it is also how others do, but I suppose that's not necessarily the case. It'd be interesting to hear from someone in that other camp, hear what their experience is like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Typical Beta issues of when you're not pulling against some challenge (together) you turn into a lifeless puddle.

    That and your enneagram type seems to be off, which is precluding a ton of insight into this.
    I've heard that my enneagram is off a couple times now. I've never taken a very deep dive in that so just rolled with what a friend said I seemed like. Can you expand on what seems off or what would seem more correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    THIS LINK is a good non-socionics description of how tactical types manage goals. The tactical types naturally take a systems approach, rather than a goal-approach. Anyone can adopt any kind of system to work under obviously, I'm just talking about where your mindset naturally goes.
    Awesome. The reading for the weekend is starting to pile up lol thanks.
    "I would rather be ashes than dust"

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked."

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Everyone is saying that it's Ni/Se or beta. . . but is there really anyone who doesn't get depressed when they feel their life is on a never-ending treadmill? Really?
    I agree with @silke basically, one person’s comfort and security is another person’s prison. Like I literally know and know of many people who took mindless, repetitive jobs they couldn’t easily be fired from, and from which they could retire early, because they wanted not to be stressed at work. They want to be chill forever. And they are not in the low-IQ set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    I agree with @silke basically, one person’s comfort and security is another person’s prison. Like I literally know and know of many people who took mindless, repetitive jobs they couldn’t easily be fired from, and from which they could retire early, because they wanted not to be stressed at work. They want to be chill forever. And they are not in the low-IQ set.
    Hm, so I guess for them, not having enough time to relax would be depressing instead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Hm, so I guess for them, not having enough time to relax would be depressing instead?
    I don’t claim to understand this species of human. Some of them feel, I think, that by claiming a decent life without stress they are kinda milking the system, which is an artificial and stupid system designed to take all their energy away. By skating along they get more out than they put in and avoid being bamboozled. Or some such.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    .......You got the Ij part really well minus that I don't plan as much as that. And I have a bit more Se initiative than that. Maybe it fits INxj a bit more overall? To be clear what fits me there is that I don't easily put more on my plate unless I find the motivation in other people for it. I.e. I get involved emotionally and that's when I do it........
    Ijs plan in the sense that they the develop or adopt processes by which they conduct their lives; they seem to have preconceived notions of how to address most things - methodological as opposed to make it up as you go. I find that they can have initiative in a maintenance sense but not when it comes to undertaking new things that may involve personal risk or expenditure of significant resources. They seem to make better followers than leaders. Note that I haven't met LSIs who would to express themselves this way: "......I get involved emotionally and that's when I do it." However, I can see something like this happening when things have been put off a while and are now getting critical; IJs will sometimes switch to their dual-like personas to get themselves off the pot when there's nobody around to do it for them.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    I considered editing to suggest it might be about semantics. Where Ni is concerned ...

    I think I am more about holding a vision of something, or helping people to model outcomes so they can have more or better choices. And this vision or model can evolve as things change, and it also involves a lot of contingency thinking. I don’t mind concrete goals, btw, only how they are developed and how rapidly they can respond to failure. I often work backwards from a worst-case scenario.

    So it’s actually the case that those meaningful goals that some people come up with make it hard for me to function because they’re not very adaptable. I’m supposed to adapt to the goal, and I find that really hard to do while retaining any of my own strengths, though it does seem functional in a work environment for about a week at a time. Maybe even a few weeks, but there will usually come a point where the traditional goal dork is stuck on a plan of doom.
    Yeah, that makes sense about how you envision things - even if I have weaker Ni than that for sure. I don't do contingency thinking that much, though the vision can be improved/updated sometimes yeah. I do have to turn them into concrete goals and steps though, that's just how I work, I focus on achieving more than on envisioning and obviously I can't achieve something if it remains in a nonconcrete form.

    I have no idea about the 2nd part of what you are writing about here tho', I'm not expecting anyone to adapt to my goals, I don't even speak of them to most people, so that's not really something that made much sense to me sorry. I've never had a "plan of doom" tho' for sure I do get the sense we are talking about very different things here again.

    If it's about how to involve other people's help if I need it for achieving the goal, that to me is still not about expecting them to adapt... I might still not even share with them what goal I have, depends on the situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Ijs plan in the sense that they the develop or adopt processes by which they conduct their lives; they seem to have preconceived notions of how to address most things - methodological as opposed to make it up as you go. I find that they can have initiative in a maintenance sense but not when it comes to undertaking new things that may involve personal risk or expenditure of significant resources. They seem to make better followers than leaders. Note that I haven't met LSIs who would to express themselves this way: "......I get involved emotionally and that's when I do it." However, I can see something like this happening when things have been put off a while and are now getting critical; IJs will sometimes switch to their dual-like personas to get themselves off the pot when there's nobody around to do it for them.
    Ok this thread is full of misunderstandings for me now lol. I meant I get involved emotionally with other people, I don't transform myself into an EIE on my own. And that is an "emotional boot in the ass" to me in the sense you meant it originalyl unless I misinterpreted that. But yeah, the methodical "planning" and the maintenance vs new things part makes sense, though I don't see how you jump from that to being a follower rather than a leader. That's again another different thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    I considered editing to suggest it might be about semantics. Where Ni is concerned ...

    I think I am more about holding a vision of something, or helping people to model outcomes so they can have more or better choices. And this vision or model can evolve as things change, and it also involves a lot of contingency thinking. I don’t mind concrete goals, btw, only how they are developed and how rapidly they can respond to failure. I often work backwards from a worst-case scenario.

    So it’s actually the case that those meaningful goals that some people come up with make it hard for me to function because they’re not very adaptable. I’m supposed to adapt to the goal, and I find that really hard to do while retaining any of my own strengths, though it does seem functional in a work environment for about a week at a time. Maybe even a few weeks, but there will usually come a point where the traditional goal dork is stuck on a plan of doom.
    I understand this perfectly. It is a great description of what I do, too.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-26-2018 at 10:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    Title says it. I'm curious which IE or combination of them it is where a sense of stagnation, a lack of forward momentum/progress, leads to agitation, irritability, and depression? Any time I feel like I'm not moving forward in some way, just treading water, or stuck in a rut I can't get out of I start getting really lethargic and irritable or just feeling down all the time. At times some self-destructive behaviors (eating poorly, sleeping a lot, skipping exercise) seem to creep up just to make something different or because "why not?".

    Then the instant something breaks loose and things start to progress I'm full of energy and in a great mood to keep that movement going. I'm sure some of that is just personal shit I need to work on but I'm wondering which IE it's rooted in.
    No IE. If ur stuck u feel like shit period it doesnt matter who u are

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    No IE. If ur stuck u feel like shit period it doesnt matter who u are
    I ageee, the question being don’t different people define stuckness differently or get stuck in different ways and so on?
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    Aw. For me, it's true that having more and more (work) responsibility just feels like an entrapment, not something glamorous or stimulating in and of itself. Maybe if it offered more creative opportunities, but I don't think it would.

    The only piece that's bad is feeling intellectually under-stimulated. However, having a stable job can be a way to buy free time to pursue interests - ones you can't "marry with your livelihood" and still delve into deeply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    .......though I don't see how you jump from that to being a follower rather than a leader..........
    I've seen many Ijs in leadership positions and I've been fairly successful in them myself but I've struggled with certain aspects. Ijs don't think as well on their feet; they seem to be able to deal with the strategic stuff and that for which they're prepared; however, there's much in management that's out-of-the-blue and needs to be addressed immediately, and Ijs don't have the best tools for dynamic scenarios. They'll often hire aides to buffer themselves from these issues. The dynamics seem to work better when the point-people are comfortable working the by-the-seat-of-their-pants while the Ijs provide the power behind the throne. In a sense, the leader need only provide the delay and isolation that Ijs need in order to think effectively. Ijs can most certainly lead but it's not as natural a position for them as say an Ej.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've seen many Ijs in leadership positions and I've been fairly successful in them myself but I've struggled with certain aspects. Ijs don't think as well on their feet; they seem to be able to deal with the strategic stuff and that for which they're prepared; however, there's much in management that's out-of-the-blue and needs to be addressed immediately, and Ijs don't have the best tools for dynamic scenarios. They'll often hire aides to buffer themselves from these issues. The dynamics seem to work better when the point-people are comfortable working the by-the-seat-of-their-pants while the Ijs provide the power behind the throne. In a sense, the leader need only provide the delay and isolation that Ijs need in order to think effectively. Ijs can most certainly lead but it's not as natural a position for them as say an Ej.......
    That just seems like LII with a lot of what you've said: they can't think on their feet as much in Se situations yeah. You could say I can't in Ne situations though, true. I can however do it pretty fine in many Se situations. Ok in some situations I do need to think and get prepared more, but that's often more some people related situations in closer relationships. Anything where personal emotions (of mine or other people's) start to get involved. Or just logically very complex things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've seen many Ijs in leadership positions and I've been fairly successful in them myself but I've struggled with certain aspects. Ijs don't think as well on their feet; they seem to be able to deal with the strategic stuff and that for which they're prepared; however, there's much in management that's out-of-the-blue and needs to be addressed immediately, and Ijs don't have the best tools for dynamic scenarios. They'll often hire aides to buffer themselves from these issues. The dynamics seem to work better when the point-people are comfortable working the by-the-seat-of-their-pants while the Ijs provide the power behind the throne. In a sense, the leader need only provide the delay and isolation that Ijs need in order to think effectively. Ijs can most certainly lead but it's not as natural a position for them as say an Ej.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yes, this is one of the downfalls of IJ temperament. Unexpected stuff popping up to deal with can temporarily knock them off their feet. Or at least cause some pause and reassessment, which takes a little time.

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    And I found a great example of strategic quite by accident. The post is written by an SLI, so it's Si/Ne quadra, but you can see that across strategic types (SLI is one) they have similar attitudes towards goals. LINK

    Hopefully @Park doesn't mind me using his old post as an example?

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    Oh god, I feel so weird reading my old posts. Trying to express myself clearly and accurately, I end up writing paragraphs that resemble machine translated Russian articles.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    Then the instant something breaks loose and things start to progress I'm full of energy and in a great mood to keep that movement going. I'm sure some of that is just personal shit I need to work on but I'm wondering which IE it's rooted in.
    Probably most of it. I have a very similar thing going on, and for me it's a combination of PTSD leftover symptoms, high self-expectations, introversion, and a recurring feeling of discontent whose origins I'm not really aware of.

    Life sometimes feels like nothing but a series of ups an downs with a constant struggle to find meaning (and a reason to live) in the way these different states and phases balance themselves out to achieve a certain sense of equilibrium.

    I don't think I have bipolar.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Probably most of it. I have a similar thing going on, and for me it's a combination of PTSD leftover symptoms, high self-expectations, introversion, and a recurring feeling of discontent whose origins I'm not really sure of.
    I can't say I have the PTSD in common with you, man, but I feel you on the high self-expectations. Back when I was 7 or 11 (I can't remember if it was 2nd or 5th grade) or so when explaining a poor test score to my dad I told him "I did my best" and the response I got back was "that's not good enough." That's stuck with me for the following 20+ years. No idea how much of a role that plays but it's probably non-negligible. Hit me up if that stuff is fucking you up or w/e dude.
    "I would rather be ashes than dust"

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    I can't say I have the PTSD in common with you, man, but I feel you on the high self-expectations. Back when I was 7 or 11 (I can't remember if it was 2nd or 5th grade) or so when explaining a poor test score to my dad I told him "I did my best" and the response I got back was "that's not good enough." That's stuck with me for the following 20+ years. No idea how much of a role that plays but it's probably non-negligible. Hit me up if that stuff is fucking you up or w/e dude.
    I've never been diagnosed with PTSD or anything, I just know I have some lingering post traumatic side-effects. I did have somewhat narcissistic and overbearing parents, which has also played a role in my development.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    I've never been diagnosed with PTSD or anything, I just know I have some lingering post traumatic side-effects. I did have somewhat narcissistic and overbearing parents, which has also played a role in my development.
    All the same man, if you're feelin fucked up from that or the other stuff and need a vent that doesn't know shit about you hit me up.
    "I would rather be ashes than dust"

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked."

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    Low Ne can also do this.

    Not exploring options leaves you stuck in a log jam. You flounder around; when it could have be just as easy to find out about that funding; through that conversation you didnt know about; through that phone call to that authority that could sort out your problem you had been confounded by for months..all things that could have cleaned out the jam and you could go on your merry Se way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eos View Post
    Low Ne can also do this.

    Not exploring options leaves you stuck in a log jam. You flounder around; when it could have be just as easy to find out about that funding; through that conversation you didnt know about; through that phone call to that authority that could sort out your problem you had been confounded by for months..all things that could have cleaned out the jam and you could go on your merry Se way.
    Idk how much of it is Ne tbh. When I get hyped up into decisive mode (e.g. I get impatient or angry about the issue or just feel like realllly high time to look at it now) I easily pick the right concrete option out of nowhere and go do it. Atleast this is how it works for me. Idk about OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Idk how much of it is Ne tbh. When I get hyped up into decisive mode (e.g. I get impatient or angry about the issue or just feel like realllly high time to look at it now) I easily pick the right concrete option out of nowhere and go do it. Atleast this is how it works for me. Idk about OP.
    This still sounds like Se way forward.

    Hyped into decision - impatient angry - pick the right options out of no-where..

    OP sounds like he is saying he gets stuck into a blind corner with little options to relieve him and find the way out. Ne types are brainstorming immediately and all the time. This is a part of the Si+Te appeal for Ne Fi --> implementation of ideas and options. You can see this with delta STs as well.

    The doing it part, not really where this OP is struggling with. Its doing what, exactly? That is the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Idk how much of it is Ne tbh. When I get hyped up into decisive mode (e.g. I get impatient or angry about the issue or just feel like realllly high time to look at it now) I easily pick the right concrete option out of nowhere and go do it. Atleast this is how it works for me. Idk about OP.
    Biggest issue is when I'm in "decisive mode" (90% of the time) and the actual decision is in the hands of somebody else. "I'm ready to go, you son of a bitch. Let's go! Move like you got a purpose!"
    "I would rather be ashes than dust"

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked."

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    So you have agency, but not control, so you give up and take on the attitude of "fuck it" which leads to wallowing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eos View Post
    This still sounds like Se way forward.

    Hyped into decision - impatient angry - pick the right options out of no-where..

    OP sounds like he is saying he gets stuck into a blind corner with little options to relieve him and find the way out. Ne types are brainstorming immediately and all the time. This is a part of the Si+Te appeal for Ne Fi --> implementation of ideas and options. You can see this with delta STs as well.

    The doing it part, not really where this OP is struggling with. Its doing what, exactly? That is the issue.
    Yeah that was my point that it seems Se for picking an option, and Ne isn't needed. It actually skips having to explore options in the Ne way.

    And yeah I understand Ne types brainstorm like that to get out of a bad place. If I actually perceive myself in such a corner, then how I do it is I just try to get somewhere until I actually manage to find the good working direction... it can be very energy and time consuming though yeah... I just never stay passive though while trying. But it can happen that I do not notice that I am in that corner for a while... or I try to ignore it bc I think there is no way out of it. Until I actually realize that there is some way... that's when Ni starts to "lead" me a bit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eos View Post
    So you have agency, but not control, so you give up and take on the attitude of "fuck it" which leads to wallowing.
    You said this to OP but just want to say, that sounds terrible to me. -.- If there is truly nothing I see I can do, that is when I just block out the thing, so no "wallowing" and then I just wait until I can get somewhere.

    Idk if this is type related much, the only thing I can see regarding that is OP is a bit more impulsive than me lol


    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    Biggest issue is when I'm in "decisive mode" (90% of the time) and the actual decision is in the hands of somebody else. "I'm ready to go, you son of a bitch. Let's go! Move like you got a purpose!"
    Ohh I'm often in that mode too, sure, I just mean for some stuff I have to put myself into it deliberately, for some reason. I think it's probably when I didn't immediately see options for it originally. And yeah, ok that's frustrating. That's where sometimes really the only thing you can do is patience with a clear view of how waiting will help and that that is actually the thing to be done. Then sometimes nope, you need to act, ofc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Yeah that was my point that it seems Se for picking an option, and Ne isn't needed. It actually skips having to explore options in the Ne way.


    And yeah I understand Ne types brainstorm like that to get out of a bad place. If I actually perceive myself in such a corner, then how I do it is I just try to get somewhere until I actually manage to find the good working direction... it can be very energy and time consuming though yeah... I just never stay passive though while trying. But it can happen that I do not notice that I am in that corner for a while... or I try to ignore it bc I think there is no way out of it. Until I actually realize that there is some way... that's when Ni starts to "lead" me a bit.
    That's good. Luckily you probably haven;t had to face these types of problems yet where push through qualities just isn't enough. I have been in these places and I've learned that pushing through can become exhausting when you enter your 30's, especially when others or the circumstances are in control of your destiny.

    You said this to OP but just want to say, that sounds terrible to me. -.- If there is truly nothing I see I can do, that is when I just block out the thing, so no "wallowing" and then I just wait until I can get somewhere.
    Is this you, or is this broadly your sociotype? If its you then count yourself fortunate that you don;t wallow because that is one of the key ways you avoid depression as strategy.

    Idk if this is type related much, the only thing I can see regarding that is OP is a bit more impulsive than me lol
    no it probably is not type related entirelly, but I went the sociotype angle because that was what he asked for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eos View Post
    That's good. Luckily you probably haven;t had to face these types of problems yet where push through qualities just isn't enough. I have been in these places and I've learned that pushing through can become exhausting when you enter your 30's, especially when others or the circumstances are in control of your destiny.
    I have faced those, I was basically already mentioning that sort of thing above. With the Ni leading me lolol. And then there were the circumstances where I had to push anyway even if it was exhausting a lot. Along with the Ni leading too. The craziest ever circumstances. Anyway, I don't really believe in circumstances being truly in control of your destiny, so that could also help... But a sense of control is incredibly important to me, sense of agency is just basic.


    Is this you, or is this broadly your sociotype? If its you then count yourself fortunate that you don;t wallow because that is one of the key ways you avoid depression as strategy.
    This is me, I wasn't trying to say it was type related. Wallowing seems incredibly tiring lool, what positives does it give to anyone. (Disclaimer: ofc not trying to degrade anyone where I laughed)

    Agreed that it does help avoid depression, or more like, helps avoid sinking into too many negative emotions for too long. I don't believe anyone can and should entirely avoid negative emotions during their entire life (unless they really don't have to deal with real issues lol), that's why I worded it like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    That just seems like LII with a lot of what you've said: they can't think on their feet as much in Se situations yeah. You could say I can't in Ne situations though, true. I can however do it pretty fine in many Se situations. Ok in some situations I do need to think and get prepared more, but that's often more some people related situations in closer relationships. Anything where personal emotions (of mine or other people's) start to get involved. Or just logically very complex things.
    Situations are not really S- or N-like; it's one's perspective on situations that can be described that way, and to state the obvious, most situations can be addressed from many different perspectives and resolved in different ways. The only difference between Si and Se is how one processes the data, referring to the control system configuration because data preference is identical - similar can be said for Ni and Ne. A N- versus S-perspective (or vice versa) may give a person an edge in recognizing certain key elements of a situation but this doesn't imply that this person will be able handle it any better than someone coming at it from a totally different direction. Perspective doesn't assure outcomes or success but it does affect how a situation will likely be addressed.
    @Myst As an aside, the way that you seem to describe and express some aspects of yourself would fool me into believing that you were SLI.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I have faced those, I was basically already mentioning that sort of thing above. With the Ni leading me lolol. And then there were the circumstances where I had to push anyway even if it was exhausting a lot. Along with the Ni leading too. The craziest ever circumstances. Anyway, I don't really believe in circumstances being truly in control of your destiny, so that could also help... But a sense of control is incredibly important to me, sense of agency is just basic.
    Nice, right on thats good.


    This is me, I wasn't trying to say it was type related. Wallowing seems incredibly tiring lool, what positives does it give to anyone. (Disclaimer: ofc not trying to degrade anyone where I laughed)

    Agreed that it does help avoid depression, or more like, helps avoid sinking into too many negative emotions for too long. I don't believe anyone can and should entirely avoid negative emotions during their entire life (unless they really don't have to deal with real issues lol), that's why I worded it like that.
    Wallowing was more of a poetic way to say you are facing adversity for which there is no long term answer. Like a chronic illness. Not really about negative emotions here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Situations are not really S- or N-like; it's one's perspective on situations that can be described that way, and to state the obvious, most situations can be addressed from many different perspectives and resolved in different ways. The only difference between Si and Se is how one processes the data, referring to the control system configuration because data preference is identical - similar can be said for Ni and Ne. A N- versus S-perspective (or vice versa) may give a person an edge in recognizing certain key elements of a situation but this doesn't imply that this person will be able handle it any better than someone coming at it from a totally different direction. Perspective doesn't assure outcomes or success but it does affect how a situation will likely be addressed.
    @Myst As an aside, the way that you seem to describe and express some aspects of yourself would fool me into believing that you were SLI.

    a.k.a. I/O
    she is saying its in how Se situations are addressed that LII cant think on a their feet fast enough. I am in total agreeance with her on this. Fast reaction time vs mental process and a life long habit of avoiding violence leads to something like myst is saying

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Situations are not really S- or N-like; it's one's perspective on situations that can be described that way, and to state the obvious, most situations can be addressed from many different perspectives and resolved in different ways. The only difference between Si and Se is how one processes the data, referring to the control system configuration because data preference is identical - similar can be said for Ni and Ne. A N- versus S-perspective (or vice versa) may give a person an edge in recognizing certain key elements of a situation but this doesn't imply that this person will be able handle it any better than someone coming at it from a totally different direction. Perspective doesn't assure outcomes or success but it does affect how a situation will likely be addressed.
    @Myst As an aside, the way that you seem to describe and express some aspects of yourself would fool me into believing that you were SLI.
    You sound quite vague about how you'd see me as SLI.

    I most certainly don't relate to how SLI gets unable to pick any option (be it Se or Ne) as here: "If this sequence is disrupted and an unexpected event happens, he may fall into "stupor", thus they are trying to take precautions, to provide for in advance, to cover for all contingencies." (Ne suggestive, http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Dmitry-Golihov)

    I.e. I don't really prepare with contingency plans much lol, and if I must respond in the situation, I always will. Even if it's not the best option or whatever, lol. Stupor is not what I respond with... so I don't need the precautions in that way. More like, um, I find me understanding the whole situation (hence prepared in a sense) helps in e.g. not responding too impulsively or aggressively.

    And yeah certain situations can be approached better with one IE than in another though certainly not true of all situations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eos View Post
    Wallowing was more of a poetic way to say you are facing adversity for which there is no long term answer. Like a chronic illness. Not really about negative emotions here.
    Ahh ok, I thought wallowing was a feeling state though. The answer can be found sometimes even when one didn't think it existed.

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    Self pity is a feeling state. Wallowing, languishing are more habit states in this context.

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