I might be SLE afterall

[Pole]

I do still prefer SLE at this point - you seem very freewheeling, with little rigidity, cynicism, or inclination to impose a system or idea of "how things should be". You also seem to be comfortable attracting attention to yourself, although I know you have disputed that this reflects your real-life behavior.

I will say, I'm an 8, not a 6 or a 1 which is more common among LSI.

[Pole]

I don't know you well enough to be sure, and you know yourself the best, but yeah I was thinking you were actually SLE. The reason why is because I believe rational/irrational is a bigger difference between LSI and SLE than being introverted or extroverted in the everyday sense of the word. Being socially outgoing or whatever depends a lot on circumstance, upbringing and environment etc, and E/I is really deeper than that. So typing someone as LSI-Se because they seem Se-ish but introverted is not really the best thing to do, because the real difference is you attitude to order and how you live your life in general. If you are kinda laid back and take things as they come you are not LSI, not even LSI-Se. LSI is the #1 orderly type, if you are disorganized, or just not someone that cares about rules or hierarchicsl orgsnizations in general you aren't LSI. The same way, if you got straight As in school and make pland regularly and make sure to structure things in your life you are not SLE, even if you are extroverted and between these types this still makes a person LSI IMO. So yeah to sum up you vibe more like SLE to me. I bet @Myst has something to say about this and a different perspective than me

I am pretty orderly and I tried to get good grades growing up (but my dyslexia messed things up a lot). I'm pretty organized but highly forgetful and end up going to walmart 3 times in 1 week because I forgot things... that were on the list lol.

[Pole]

Dunno, based on what you say we kinda have the opposite yet similar issues. So I wonder if we are in the same 'quadra' or whatever but that's dorky. Either way, you sound like a cool person.

Rude customers never bothered me, I just laughed at them for how pathetic they were. It was funny as hell to me how they blew their lid over the pettiest things. Hateful blonde soccer maams trying to get me fired but always failed lmao. Their cruelty didn't phase me. High school/middle school was different though, that was hell. I was bullied way too much but brought it on myself a lot. (I don't think school as an institution should even exist, we should instead just prepare kids for the real/work world right away because grade school was useless to me, just nothing but pain and the educational stuff I coulda learned on my own. If I was intellectually curious about something, I just asked my dad to buy me a book about it anyway.) The sad part is, I cared and let it hurt me but hey I'm only human. So I can teach you to laugh off rude customers and you can teach me to stand up to bullies with beta bad-assery. =D

FUCK RETAIL LOL. And fuck those soccer moms with nothing better to do but take their frustrations from their shit lives out on minimum wage slaves. I didn't laugh it off, I would stand there telling them exactly what the deal was, and of course the manager would come and tell them the same thing. It didnt take long in retail before I had a chip on my shoulder. I knew I wouldn't get fired for standing up for myself. I'm not going to let someone with no life talk down to me or disrespect me. Fuck that noise LOL. But I'm not cut out for retail obviously.
I was homeschooled so I spent a lot of time learning things that I liked most, but the set up was very classroom like and it lasted all day/night so fuck that too lol.
Are you a beta?

[powerrainbowcrystal]

Are you a beta?

Yep I'm IEI-Ni. I like your posts, they energize me.

And fuck those soccer moms with nothing better to do but take their frustrations from their shit lives out on minimum wage slaves.

lol I might put this one in my sig for awhile.

[Pole]

Yep I'm IEI-Ni. I like your posts, they energize me.



lol I might put this one in my sig for awhile.

Haha awesome. I was not aware I had that effect. And go for it if you want lol.

[squark]

@Bertrand @squark You're reading too much into what I said, just read between the lines and get the point. Doesn't matter if procedure is Te, the point is that LSI wants to have order and consistency. Don't connect every word I'm saying with typology, I might not use the words the same way as socionics does

We got off on a bit of a tangent there, but you know, just trying to make things orderly and consistent =P

-----------------------------------

Anyway, don't much like the idea of if you are X you can't do Y kind of thing because the reason behind it matters more than the behavior itself, and we're working with broad categories of people. You can say for example that on average a particular kind of animal lives 20 years, but that does not tell you exactly how long an individual animal will live, just gives you an idea. Same goes for types, you have averages for each type, but individuals vary from those. So, sure LSIs as a whole are more orderly and consistent, but you can't say LSIs always get good grades in school and SLEs don't, or anything of that nature. What matters for LSI vs SLE most is are you Ti-lead or Se-lead?

One quick and dirty way to check that is look at their kindreds - overall are you more similar to LIIs or SEEs? Even a very Se LSI will be more like an LII than an SEE due to the Ti-lead they share, and Se takes backseat to that. Especially true online where you can't really see Se in action. And even a Ti SLE is more like an SEE than an LII due to Se lead with the Ti taking the backseat for them. Other factors as well - the demonstrative/HA overlap, temperament and so on. It's not foolproof but it's a quick way to get an idea.

[Number 9 large]

sle: uses logic to dominate environment
lsi: uses force to logically structure environment

sle is at rest when the environment is dominated by him. (only using logic to dominate)
lsi is at rest when his environment makes sense (only using force when something is out of line)

for sle power is the endgoal
for lsi making sense is the endgoal

a lsi will get mad when it doesnt make sense, doesnt necessarily care if controlled by someone else, as long as his supervisor makes sense.

a sle will get mad if he gets controlled, but doesnt necessarily care if he or his environment doesnt make sense

lsis are often 6 (want truth) or 1 (want perfection)
sles are often 8 (want power)

[Hope]

lsi: force
sle: brute force


lsi: it needs to look like it makes sense.
sle: brute force


lsi: I'll work very hard until...
sle: brute force

[Pole]

This comparison guide is cool, the ESTp fits better than ISTj. Thoughts?
http://www.sociotype.com/tools/type-comparison/LSI-SLE

[Desert Financial]

This comparison guide is cool, the ESTp fits better than ISTj. Thoughts?
http://www.sociotype.com/tools/type-comparison/LSI-SLE

That doesn't surprise me. The comparison tool hinges on the reinin dichotomies and some other traits. I'm glad you find it useful.

Out of curiosity, would you say you're a more "half is glass full" kind of person or "glass is half empty"?

[Pole]

That doesn't surprise me. The comparison tool hinges on the reinin dichotomies and some other traits. I'm glad you find it useful.

Out of curiosity, would you say you're a more "half is glass full" kind of person or "glass is half empty"?

I would say half full.

[Desert Financial]

I would say half full.

That's the only trait that seems more LSI for you ime, since you seem more positivistic. Otherwise, you seem more SLE.

[Pole]

That's the only trait that seems more LSI for you ime, since you seem more positivistic. Otherwise, you seem more SLE.

I'm pretty positive until my car breaks down or I'm broke and owe rent. LOL

[Exodus]

I would say half full.

This is actually more of an SLE trait than LSI. SLEs have more access to Ne than LSIs and hence tend to be more optimistic. Often LSIs are quite pessimistic and worried about the future due to mobilizing Ni. This is a case where the naive Positivist/Negativist interpretation is flawed.

[Desert Financial]

This is actually more of an SLE trait than LSI. SLEs have more access to Ne than LSIs and hence tend to be more optimistic. Often LSIs are quite pessimistic and worried about the future due to mobilizing Ni. This is a case where the naive Positivist/Negativist interpretation is flawed.

You would think that extraversion in general would correlate with positivism and introversion with negativism.

[Exodus]

You would think that extraversion in general would correlate with positivism and introversion with negativism.

That's true. Extroverts do have bold Ne after all.

[Slade]

SLE

[Pole]

This is actually more of an SLE trait than LSI. SLEs have more access to Ne than LSIs and hence tend to be more optimistic. Often LSIs are quite pessimistic and worried about the future due to mobilizing Ni. This is a case where the naive Positivist/Negativist interpretation is flawed.

That makes sense.

[Pole]

@Slade
Any reason why, as opposed to LSI

[Number 9 large]

This is actually more of an SLE trait than LSI. SLEs have more access to Ne than LSIs and hence tend to be more optimistic. Often LSIs are quite pessimistic and worried about the future due to mobilizing Ni. This is a case where the naive Positivist/Negativist interpretation is flawed.

Actually LSIs are postivistic and SLEs negativistic haha

[Pole]

I will say this which had me think the other day about extroversion and introversion. I feel worse when I'm by myself and talking to people and socializing energizes me. I hate being alone and try to avoid if possible.

[Slade]

I will say this which had me think the other day about extroversion and introversion. I feel worse when I'm by myself and talking to people and socializing energizes me. I hate being alone and try to avoid if possible.

I could gather this from your questionnaire. It's clear that you feed off the outside world. I could write a few paragraphs about my reasoning. I have ideas about where the elements fit into Model A based on your answers but I've written a good chunk of posts already today. If you want a more detailed analysis with examples, I can do that - but as a very broad summation, it looks like you are much more focused on interacting with the world (Se) than understanding the world (Ti), which is shown based off your experiences and preferences for how to live, as well as your outlook.

[Pole]

I could gather this from your questionnaire. It's clear that you feed off the outside world. I could write a few paragraphs about my reasoning. I have ideas about where the elements fit into Model A based on your answers but I've written a good chunk of posts already today. If you want a more detailed analysis with examples, I can do that - but as a very broad summation, it looks like you are much more focused on interacting with the world (Se) than understanding the world (Ti), which is shown based off your experiences and preferences for how to live, as well as your outlook.

I wasn't expecting any paragraphs lol, no need for that. Another thing I will say, I didn't start typing as LSI until after I went through some hardships in life and withdrew for a couple of years, before that I was often typed as SLE.

[Slade]

I wasn't expecting any paragraphs lol, no need for that. Another thing I will say, I didn't start typing as LSI until after I went through some hardships in life and withdrew for a couple of years, before that I was often typed as SLE.

Yeah, its a common occurrence for people to conclude they are introverts based off things like that. I'm having my own problems separating the two at the moment - but as far as your distinction on being energized around others, that's about as clear a distinction between intro and extro as there are.

[Pole]

Yeah, its a common occurrence for people to conclude they are introverts based off things like that. I'm having my own problems separating the two at the moment - but as far as your distinction on being energized around others, that's about as clear a distinction between intro and extro as there are.

That's what I always thought was the major distinction but there are people who point that that's a myth from MBTI? Idunno, I always believed it, that where you get your energy from determines extro/intro.
You're on the fence then, where do you recharge?

[Exodus]

That's what I always thought was the major distinction but there are people who point that that's a myth from MBTI? Idunno, I always believed it, that where you get your energy from determines extro/intro.

It's not so much a myth as it is more specifically about Se and Fe. I do think this is a strong piece of evidence in your case.

[idontgiveaf]

You look like my LSI friend though

[Myst]

My SLE brother thinks I'm SLE and I still find it hard to relate to most LSIs. Ask me anything.

Again I'm not sure when I'll have time to come back to this later, but I'll post a bit in here too.

I wasn't expecting any paragraphs lol, no need for that. Another thing I will say, I didn't start typing as LSI until after I went through some hardships in life and withdrew for a couple of years, before that I was often typed as SLE.

So what does being SLE mean to you?

That's what I always thought was the major distinction but there are people who point that that's a myth from MBTI? Idunno, I always believed it, that where you get your energy from determines extro/intro.
You're on the fence then, where do you recharge?

I also get energy from interacting with others - this is some Fe thing, I believe. Apparently it's not the same kind of naturally maintainable energizing though as it is for SLEs - I've closely compared myself on this with an SLE once.

I don't know you well enough to be sure, and you know yourself the best, but yeah I was thinking you were actually SLE. The reason why is because I believe rational/irrational is a bigger difference between LSI and SLE than being introverted or extroverted in the everyday sense of the word. Being socially outgoing or whatever depends a lot on circumstance, upbringing and environment etc, and E/I is really deeper than that. So typing someone as LSI-Se because they seem Se-ish but introverted is not really the best thing to do, because the real difference is you attitude to order and how you live your life in general. If you are kinda laid back and take things as they come you are not LSI, not even LSI-Se. LSI is the #1 orderly type, if you are disorganized, or just not someone that cares about rules or hierarchicsl orgsnizations in general you aren't LSI. The same way, if you got straight As in school and make pland regularly and make sure to structure things in your life you are not SLE, even if you are extroverted and between these types this still makes a person LSI IMO. So yeah to sum up you vibe more like SLE to me. I bet @Myst has something to say about this and a different perspective than me

OK here's the different perspective

To me Pole is laid back in relating to other people but not laid back in her way of leading her life.

I saw a diagram for model g once that compares base and creative with a rider and a horse, the creative function serves the base, it implements like you said. If your base is Ti then being consistent is the most important thing, but if you are a Ti creative then you can bend the rules, because then it is meant to implement, and if bending Ti serves Se then so be it. Let's say we have two war generals that are put in the same scenario, one SLE one LSI. You're implementing a war strategy in which you are supposed to retreat back to your base after having won a battle, in order to get ammo and plan the next move etc. After having won the battle, you see that the enemy base a few kilometers away is in a vulnerable state because there are a relatively few men guarding it, they haven't been able to reorganize after the battle. The SLE decides to attempt to capture the enemy base because of the great advantage it would give him, even though it is a risky move and out of line with the planned strategy. The goal is to win, and it seems like the planned method of winning is getting in the way. The LSI decides to return to the base, even though he saw the opportunity and was tempted to try. The reason why is because this is an effective strategy that has been very successful, and if he gets carried away and diverges from the method he will lose consistency, which will put his army in a vulnerable state even if he takes over the eneny base, because the strategy has lost its consistency, and getting it to work like normal again will take some effort, because they had to reschedule their ordinary routines etc, the situation became chaotic and unpredictable. Break the rules once and you lose faith in them

If I'm to report to someone else by the orders given then I would have to return to the base, no other option there*, or at least quite unlikely. If not reporting to someone else on this, and if I had enough of a quick overview, I'd go for capturing the enemy there. I actually don't need too many details to act in many cases. Consistency is important but I'm able to make the decision (in a very conscious way) to put lower-order (less strongly prioritized) rules aside (yeah this is pretty hierarchical) or whatever plans aside and go for some gain that's big enough to warrant it or for some other important reason. The point though is that I do have to make such a decision consciously, I'm not relaxed go-with-the-flow with this.

*: Unless maybe some EIE was there and showed me how I can get around that. Jk, I'm not sure EIE does this, but they'd be more able to see tricks about this, I'm sure.