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Thread: Differences between Enneagram type 3 and the So/Social instinct

  1. #1

    Default Differences between Enneagram type 3 and the So/Social instinct

    I don't know the differences between the levels of base type, wing and fix in Enneagram, so I'll ask what are the differences between Enneagram 3 in general and the So instinct in primary or secondary position. I've found descriptions, but they seem to ascribe to both almost identical things.
    I think I'm a three, probably 3w4 and an Sx last type. This thread seems to be to satiate my curiosity more than anything else I think.
    Thanks for any help.

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    I recently wrote an article about 4w3 vs 4w5, and I do cover the distinction between the Social instinct and 3-ness and 5-ness to some extent.

    3s are naturally “pseudo-Social”, in the sense they have an eye on whatever their culture deems as “success”, and they will try to adapt to that. In that manner, a 4w3 has a much greater awareness of how to sell themselves and their art, for they have more of a focus on the culture’s ideals of success; and being like a 3, they typically have internalized those ideals.

    Social 4w5s may also be aware of those ideals, due to the Social instinct; but there is typically a reluctance to fully give in to those ideals, they are not the main focus for them. They’d rather focus on what appeals to them personally and bring that to society rather than what is already appealing to the public. 4w3s tend to deal much better with outside expectations; they are much more open to catering towards them. 4w5s are more attached to delivering what they perceive to be deeper “truths”.
    I'll have to write another article on the differences/distinctions between the Social instinct and 3ness in particular another time.

    But, I think that article might be helpful for you (for now), especially because I get the impression you could actually be rather a Type 4, leaning 4w5 SO.
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    I can relate to four traits, and give credence to the option of 4w3, but underneath it all every time I read, every time I sit down and try to write my first instinct (hehehehe) is to consider whether this (if reading) will prove to be useful in debates (battleground for status) and (if writing) this will be liked by others, or if it'll give the impression of genius. Regarding writing, I'm aware of my considerations, so I try to find another impulse for writing which only seems to come with visual symbolic representations from my subconscious I occasionally catch. But that's only the topic. And while looking for all of these things within myself there's a constant pull made up of previously mentioned considerations I need to repress and that's very hard to do.
    Maybe it's just yet unshaped literary ideals, but I dunno. I procrastinate most of the time, since I'm aware I'm just following a ideal, without necessarily enjoying the reading or writing and am a bit lost.

    I don't know about having a five anywhere. I relate more to 6 and I don't feel afraid if I consider being stripped of my knowledge (though at the same time, if I was stripped I'd probably have a more innocent view of the world).
    This all sounds sociopathic when I read it. I have feelings I swear.
    Last edited by someoneaskedmetofly; 12-09-2017 at 11:39 AM.

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    They overlap in some areas but:

    the social instinct is about communicating, bonding, being for eachother like in a supportive way, networking, groups, including/excluding other people. society, family, charisma, causes, gossiping, reputation, hierarchies (pecking order)

    3 is about being attractive, liked, wanted, self-involved (like, want to be in the spotlight), goals, narcissism, vanity

    So.. a social last 3 can be kind of odd. Those are usually the threes who don't feel appreciated enough because they don't know how to work the social area, and because a 3 wants to look likeable and charismatic thats a problem for a social last 3, especially when they have a 4 wing. Elliot Rodger was a social last 3w4, for example.



    Social first and second 3s already have a natural likeability about them most of the time because they know how to be social and that.
    Last edited by maniac; 12-09-2017 at 11:57 AM.

  5. #5

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    What if I want to be someone who is interesting but in a manner that is somehow corrupt?
    @maniac
    So would competitiviness be more related to So than E3? Having pecking orders and all that?
    Last edited by someoneaskedmetofly; 12-09-2017 at 12:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tide View Post
    What if I want to be someone who is interesting but in a manner that is somehow corrupt?
    @maniac
    So would competitiviness be more related to So than E3? Having pecking orders and all that?
    It's part of both. But if you were to separate this into a person who is social first and not a 3 and just a 3 person then the difference I have seen is that the social wants to be part of the cool/respected group and cares about who they will let into that group, because if they were to let a person in they consdier stupid then the group will be less prestige, you know?
    Meanwhile a 3 is much more about pushing themselves into the frontline, they want to shine the most out of everyone (and thats why alot ot 3s are disliked by some, because they look narcissistic and think theyre the best, deserves the most attention and praise etc) while a social first person who lets say is a 6, will not be like this at all. 6s are anti-narcisissm.
    A social 3 will have parts of both obviously...they want to surround themselves with a respected, popular group and people and also get the most attention themselves.

    Another form social instinct takes is wanting to be seen as smart though this is also a little connected to three, and I've seen people using typology as a really sneaky way to say "im smart/better than you". Like associating a certain types qualities with something thats "better" than others, and typing as that type. While typing people they like less, as one of the "bad/useless" types. It's funny.

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    That's a good question. I try my best & include the other three instincts, it's always good to have the comparison:

    Baseline: 3 desires to be outstanding, getting admired for that. The instinct says where in life. Instinct is the applied enneagram drive.

    3 SO (Politician) strives to be the pinnacle of their group. First among equals, not as removed from eye level as the other subtypes. Steve Harvey & Will Smith are an example.
    3 SX (Superstar) strives to be outstanding to their partner or dedicated cause. Most image-oriented of the 3s. Paris Hilton, Andy Warhol, Elvis, Madonna.
    3 SP (Pragmatist) strives to be outstanding in terms of what they own/built up. Most "workaholic" of the 3s. Arnold Schwarzenegger comes to mind of course.

    The SO instinct is sort of the adaptation circle that 3's want to excel is based in. You can place 4 in there for instance and it becomes the desire to see one's identity divorced from this group. Or 6, they want to be secure in this group. It can be family, neighbour community, school, job, any circle, that's what the SO instinct covers. 3 is solely a psychological fixation of wanting to be worthwhile. The wing adds merely another fixation. Instinct is more visible, it's the realm that this all plays out in at the end.
    Last edited by Chae; 12-10-2017 at 03:23 PM.

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    Has anyone linked schizoid pd with E3? On that note, what do you think Eckhart Tolle's Ennegram is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tide View Post
    Has anyone linked schizoid pd with E3? On that note, what do you think Eckhart Tolle's Ennegram is?
    5 is schizoid-like but not actual schizoid
    social last is also schizoid-like
    3 is not like schizoid at all hah

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    A cursory description:

    Each type's take on their first instinct will be diff. So an sp-five ILI might find an sp-2 ESE's take on sp super oppressive, not want to step foot in that house.

    So is basically just wanting to feel connected (in a positive sense), or conversely feeling that you are a part of an ecosystem no matter what, and even when things are going poorly in the so-realm or there are other more pressing things to take care of it's hard to shut off this awareness. Even when alone for a long time the "world at large" might always be lurking around. That's why the withdrawn types (so 4, 5, 9) are described somewhere as needing to distance themselves periodically, since they become too aware of the way the "group" affects their sense of self. An so-last person might not even care.

    Some non-three types might deal with their so by being vehemently against the standards of the "norm." But it's hard to shut off the awareness of either the "norm" or your own relationship to it; for instance, an so-person will often eat at a restaurant and then complain about it being too fancy/ too hipster / not nice enough / not fitting into some other benchmark they have. The benchmark may even be related to cost, i.e. too overpriced; those people are pretentious, I didn't feel comfortable there, etc etc. But often times they don't process own needs in a very immediate (lack of better word), sp type manner, even when dealing with sp issues.

    So-instinct is that contextual awareness of what things are, what people are, what environments people have been in and your own understanding of or affinities towards those environments, etc, etc, and 3 is the desire to be exceptional and admired, and so-3 is the intersection when admiration will play out in the social realm. Also, if E-types are evenly distributed, 1/3 of all people will have a 3 in their tritype, so 3-ish social standards will affect a much bigger part of the population than you think.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    A cursory description
    Yes, this is exactly what I experience, the hard to shut off, the sense of your self being spread across. I've been confused recently, so this at least determines I'm some kind of an So. It's much easier to relate to such experiences. Thank you.
    @maniac
    What about any links to anhedonia?
    Last edited by someoneaskedmetofly; 12-17-2017 at 11:30 PM.

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    There as an assertive element to enneagram 3. 3 and social are both hyper aware of how the people around them work. Both 3 and social focus on the group, and how they are perceived, but the assertive element is not necessarily the case with social instinct. It really depends on what type the instinct is paired up with because while common variants have overlapping drives, the variants affect type differently.

    While both are aware of group dynamics, type 3 is all bout success. Social instinct may be about bonds, dynamics just for the sake of that, but the 3 motivation doesn't have to be intertwined with that and the competitive aspect. I can see social-doms potentially having the competitive attribute depending on how they go about how they look at group dynamics, but it's not always the case. There is also a need for affirmation with both the former and the latter. At the healthiest levels, both want to achieve great things and both adapt for the sake of this.
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