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Thread: Article: The Clock of the Socion: Energy Dynamics of Quadra and Benefit Rings by Gulenko

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    Default Article: The Clock of the Socion: Energy Dynamics of Quadra and Benefit Rings


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    Thank you for posting this article!

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    It was interesting, but I don't know why they are pushing Socionics into more esoteric territory. It becomes terribly inapplicable and irrelevant at that level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    It was interesting, but I don't know why they are pushing Socionics into more esoteric territory. It becomes terribly inapplicable and irrelevant at that level.
    actually i think it's the opposite - this article shows exactly how socionics is relevant to the real world, helping to explain how/why major societal changes and shifts occur, and the role and influence of each quadra/type as they happen. it's stuff like this that makes socionics more than just a simple typology, i think.

    Quote Originally Posted by article View Post
    Third or gamma quadra is the quadra of liberal-democratic values. This is what we have plunged in now on a global level. If we consider the world as one community, it turns out that experiences of third quadra, liberal-democratic values, are being imposed on the entire world.
    Quote Originally Posted by article View Post
    Taking risks is necessary - only risky investments yield higher returns and LIE will not settle for making a teaspoon per hour - he needs big return and immediately. Worries, stress, and as a result self-destruction - he may exhaust himself or everything around him and it will come to collapse. Note: LIEs do not make stable organizations - their structures will collapse sooner or later.
    this is very true imo. the world is in a Gamma period, led by the United States (a LIE country.) you can see the kind of instability resulting from the LIE-oriented high-risk systems in the global economic crises, with many enormous bailouts trying to prop up a system that was never stable or sustainable in the first place. from knowing the LIE type you know their focus is not on making a system stable (Ti-ignoring), but profitable (Te-base). so right now the world is experiencing failure/weakness of the Gamma quadra. (i'm not saying Gamma is bad or anything like that, because every quadra has its rise and fall, as the article explains.)

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    Very interesting, thank you for posting this.

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    It is interesting that LII passes to EIE (semidual), IEI passes to LIE (supervisor), ESI passes to IEE (supervisor) and SLI passes to ILE (semidual). I wonder if there is a reason for this pattern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
    It is interesting that LII passes to EIE (semidual), IEI passes to LIE (supervisor), ESI passes to IEE (supervisor) and SLI passes to ILE (semidual). I wonder if there is a reason for this pattern.
    :


    Quote Originally Posted by labocat View Post
    ENFj-INTj-ESTj-ISFj-ENFj (taciturn, rational, negativist cycle or "temperament")
    INFp-ENTp-ISTp-ESFp-INFp (taciturn, irrational, positivist cycle or "temperament")
    ISTj-ESFj-INFj-ENTj-ISTj (narrator, rational, positivist cycle or "temperament")
    ESTp-ISFp-ENFp-INTp-ESTp (narrator, irrational, negativist cycle or "temperament")
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post826855


    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst Trevor View Post
    Gulenko's blog entry of 22.10.2010.

     
    http://goul.socionics.kiev.ua/2010/1...li-nevyigodno/

    This question is not just interesting but also practically important. In real life it happens that a person is forced to work not in their stereotype environment, but contrary to their type or related. By which model of behavior should he/she navigate then?

    The answer is this. In the opposite type of environment it's favorable to act on the Adaptation(temperament??) equivalent unit (equivalent to the shift to "superego"). And in a related setting it's favorable to act on the dual temperament i.e. Semidual or Illusory offset should be preferred.

    For example, an INTj, once in a management setting, will be prone to decentralize and devolve/delegate authority the same way an ESTj would. But an INTp, by contrast, will develop authoritarianism, like ESTp would. An ENFj in a social environment, to gain a foothold there, will be prone to moralization, like ISFj would. But an ENFp will go towards accommodating, the same thing ISFp does.

    But why our offseted INTj doesn't act according to the temperament of identity, that is, like an ISTj or INFj? After all, it would seem justified by the fact that it is not necessary to change the balanced energy.

    Apparently, somehow the criterion of "Taciturn - Narrator" comes into play, nature whichof is as much energetic/energy related (??). I've talked about this more than once on several conferences of the International Socionics Institute. The fact is that if an INTj is to chose ISTj (or INFj) strategy he/she would have to switch on Taciturn/Narrator (as well as Negativism for Positivism), which is very energetically expensive.

    Of course, I haven't recklessly discarded the alternative hypothesis - an offset on a Benefit cycle, where "Taciturn-Narrator" would stay the same. In this case, an INTj in administrative setting would act ISTp-like, and in the humanitharian setting he/she would act INFp-like. However, what to do with Rationality/Irrationality? Even before it was known that this trait is highly correlated with compatibility at a close range, and so changing its polarity would be equivalent to the loss of recharge from the outside. My opinion is that such a shift, ie benefit ring offset, or supervision perhaps, is possible, but rather volatile/unstable and very difficult. And therefore, unjustified.

    As an example, I point attention towards growth of aluminum tycoon Oleg Deripaskiy. More about his psychological features can be learned from a documentary film by Alexei Pivovarov - "Capital ". Based on non-verbal cues and judgments of style, I've typed Deripaskiy as ISTj, the Inspector.

    By tracking his activities, we see a clear shift in the direction of ENTj. In other words, something unintelligible, wtf (the Inspector has the makings of a dominant place as a successful entrepreneur. Thus is formed and then fastened one or the other subtype. Overcoming difficulties, some people are mitigated, while others are hardened. From the same type basis - completely different persons.)
    ---------------------------


    Interesting, wooohooo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
    It is interesting that LII passes to EIE (semidual), IEI passes to LIE (supervisor), ESI passes to IEE (supervisor) and SLI passes to ILE (semidual). I wonder if there is a reason for this pattern.
    IEI passes things over to SEE not LIE (unless it's a typo). Under this formulation, it is either the semi-dual or the mirage partner of left introverted type that takes over.

    Gulenko doesn't go over quadra reversal in detail, but he does mention that preceding quadra can take over at the point in time when reign of following quadra is coming to an end in which case it is left introvert's mirage partner that gets involved. Though some think that quadra reversal isn't possible. This is what I posted in the old thread:

    In his interpretation of it, the result/process types alternate as the quadra progresses (link). So it goes:
    a: ILE-ESE-SEI-LII
    b: EIE-SLE-LSI-IEI
    g: SEE-LIE-ILI-ESI
    d: LSE-IEE-EII-SLI
    Each quadra begins with right/process extraverted type which helps get things rolling for that quadra. The right/process introverted type comes towards the end, what he calls it the "stabilizer" - this type effectively prolongs this quadra's reign until some indeterminate point that the left/result introverted type gets involved. This type he calls the "corrector" or "perfector" and from what I've gathered it's role is to survey the product of the reign of its quadra. This he calls the "point of bifurcation" where the system can go either one of two ways: either the next quadra takes over or there is a rollback to previous quadra. I was looking recently at this thread that you've made and noticed that indeed the left introverted type, the point of path selection, is conjoined with both right introvert types of the following quadra and the preceding quadra in the taciturn and narrator cycles. Perhaps this has some connection to it. Though there is something off here as in your sequence it goes ENFj-INTj-ESTj-ISFj-ENFj where starting point is type on left and transition occurs to type on the right, but in Gulenko's story it goes the other way - INTj is the corrector type in alpha who transfers things over to ENFj and the next quadra.

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    A very insightful article

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    I saw myself in the EIE description, " Beta quadra starts with EIE, the Mentor. This is the most revolutionary type in the socion. He is usually rebelling against some current system. At some point his rebellion becomes more forceful - he becomes almost as if obsessed - he teaches, proselytizes, demands to stop the old and start the new. Then he builds a new organization. It is interesting to note that building an organization is not accomplished by LSI as some think, but by EIE. Later Mentor burns out - breaks down, or become ill, or loses his sanity, or simply withdraws from public sphere. The sooner this occurs - the higher was the energy load of the type. Or in other words, the faster the clock is ticking inside him - the sooner he accomplishes the above. At the end he burns out, often physically."
    Does anyone else resonate with any of the type roles described in this article?

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    IEI passes things over to SEE not LIE (unless it's a typo). Under this formulation, it is either the semi-dual or the mirage partner of left introverted type that takes over.
    Yes, and this shows that the "clock" considered as a sequence of types does not respect the structure of the socion (which is not linear). I think it is more beneficial to see it as a characterization of each type's role within the quadra, considered using the benefit ring dichotomies.

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    Sooooo Obama ESI wraps up the rule of gamma and at this point you either revert to Beta with trump or Clinton or Move on to delta with bernie?

    i realize it CANT be that simple ,still its nice to simplify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Introspector View Post
    Sooooo Obama ESI wraps up the rule of gamma and at this point you either revert to Beta with trump or Clinton or Move on to delta with bernie?

    i realize it CANT be that simple ,still its nice to simplify.
    u right tho, u right

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    The leader of the first quadra, Alpha is the Seeker, ILE, who finds and invents. Next, the implementer and disseminator of these novelties, who attracts attention of other people is the Enthusiast, ESE. This is the only sensing type that will readily engage in something new without pragmatic expectations, without expecting a payout, and the only sensing type that can do so for prolonged period of time fueled purely by its own enthusiasm. He does not want to do this, but it draws him in (Ne-HA). Social networks, meetings and parties emerge, at which there is not only exchange of information, but also exchange of energy - people communicate, share their ideas and emotions, exchange gifts and favors. ESE can breathe life into these abstracted ideas. This is the implementer of alpha quadra. The role of quadra stabilizer comes next. The system becomes unmanageable, so within each quadra there is a stabilizing type - this is the most evolutionary, the most even type. In alpha quadra, this mission belongs to SEI, the Mediator, which is so called because he always knows where there is a golden mid-point, how not to go too far either one way or the other way. Right now in Socionics this mission is not getting resolved. There are gatherings and social networking, but there is no unity, no stabilizing comfort, thus we are stuck at this stage. The next role is the proofreader, the corrector or perfector of a quadra. In alpha this is LII, the Analyst. His mission is reorganization and debugging. The maximum ILE can do is make a prototype, but someone needs to bring it to completion. Only LII can do this and turn it into a working mechanism. The second quadra is already waiting for a working model - they will not accept a prototype. Keep in mind that we are talking about a large group scales here. Each type has its own high and low points. Take a look at ESE. First he becomes acquainted with you, which is followed by a stream of positive emotions. Then he starts energetically running around, at which point you don't know what to do. Then he becomes underestimated, no longer appreciated. Then it all starts anew. Thus psychological death and rebirth occur many times within each type. Take a look as SEI. First stabilization, pleasure, relaxation - and then gradual fading. He withdraws into himself for some reason: "I am well, the rest concerns me little".


    I find this to be interesting... so how does this relate to Socionics? Ok, so ILE has created something new - Socionics by Augusta. But there are no Alpha SFs to promote it! ESEs don't give a shit about Socionics, and neither do SEIs. Nevertheless, some LIIs have started to tinker with it, and "perfect" it, like what Gulenko is doing. He's adding more "scientific" approach, he's adding more credibility and respectability to it, he's cleaning and perfecting the system to have the potential for mass-appeal and mass-implementation.

    Betas (and other quadras) think that Socionics is just a silly prototype, and there's not much promise for mass-appeal or practical implementation. But what if it did though? What if the LIIs perfected it enough? Scary thought... maybe one day, Socionics will be perfected enough to have mass-appeal and mass-implementation by the Betas. And maybe one day, we'll be living in some dystopian One Socionics One Typology society with Augusta as our Great Leader of the Socion.

    And then the IEI will somehow crash the whole system, and then it gets passed onto Gamma...
    Last edited by Singu; 02-04-2017 at 02:29 PM.

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    IEE is the implementer of fourth quadra. He evokes interest, interest turns into excitement. But IEE is not ESE, the Enthusiast. In this quadra this excitement will not last long, even socionics as a novelty does not last with them. Boredom ensues. IEE brings elements of absurdism and disorganization.
    I relate!

    My excitement shifts very quickly, the chaos part - that's really happening on here, I create weird input right and left. I'm already half on the instinct bandwagon because it feels more promising and unexplored to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    Does anyone else resonate with any of the type roles described in this article?
    I much relate to the LII role- debugging and reorganizing things.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    So semidual relation ILE - SLI is like Alpha - Omega, Big Bang - End Of the World. Interesting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    The leader of the first quadra, Alpha is the Seeker, ILE, who finds and invents. Next, the implementer and disseminator of these novelties, who attracts attention of other people is the Enthusiast, ESE. This is the only sensing type that will readily engage in something new without pragmatic expectations, without expecting a payout, and the only sensing type that can do so for prolonged period of time fueled purely by its own enthusiasm. He does not want to do this, but it draws him in (Ne-HA). Social networks, meetings and parties emerge, at which there is not only exchange of information, but also exchange of energy - people communicate, share their ideas and emotions, exchange gifts and favors. ESE can breathe life into these abstracted ideas. This is the implementer of alpha quadra. The role of quadra stabilizer comes next. The system becomes unmanageable, so within each quadra there is a stabilizing type - this is the most evolutionary, the most even type. In alpha quadra, this mission belongs to SEI, the Mediator, which is so called because he always knows where there is a golden mid-point, how not to go too far either one way or the other way. Right now in Socionics this mission is not getting resolved. There are gatherings and social networking, but there is no unity, no stabilizing comfort, thus we are stuck at this stage. The next role is the proofreader, the corrector or perfector of a quadra. In alpha this is LII, the Analyst. His mission is reorganization and debugging. The maximum ILE can do is make a prototype, but someone needs to bring it to completion. Only LII can do this and turn it into a working mechanism. The second quadra is already waiting for a working model - they will not accept a prototype. Keep in mind that we are talking about a large group scales here. Each type has its own high and low points. Take a look at ESE. First he becomes acquainted with you, which is followed by a stream of positive emotions. Then he starts energetically running around, at which point you don't know what to do. Then he becomes underestimated, no longer appreciated. Then it all starts anew. Thus psychological death and rebirth occur many times within each type. Take a look as SEI. First stabilization, pleasure, relaxation - and then gradual fading. He withdraws into himself for some reason: "I am well, the rest concerns me little".


    I find this to be interesting... so how does this relate to Socionics? Ok, so ILE has created something new - Socionics by Augusta. But there are no Alpha SFs to promote it! ESEs don't give a shit about Socionics, and neither do SEIs. Nevertheless, some LIIs have started to tinker with it, and "perfect" it, like what Gulenko is doing. He's adding more "scientific" approach, he's adding more credibility and respectability to it, he's cleaning and perfecting the system to have the potential for mass-appeal and mass-implementation.

    Betas (and other quadras) think that Socionics is just a silly prototype, and there's not much promise for mass-appeal or practical implementation. But what if it did though? What if the LIIs perfected it enough? Scary thought... maybe one day, Socionics will be perfected enough to have mass-appeal and mass-implementation by the Betas. And maybe one day, we'll be living in some dystopian One Socionics One Typology society with Augusta as our Great Leader of the Socion.

    And then the IEI will somehow crash the whole system, and then it gets passed onto Gamma...
    TBT when Dingulation was still into socionics

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    TBT when Dingulation was still into socionics
    Also, SEIs and ESEs go like "So, what's your sociotype dear/teehee?" (respectively) without caring much about the theory.

    Also, he's Singularity (another thing he seems to have stopped believing in while on the forum) and not Singulation. Accuracy of references usually makes puns better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    u right tho, u right
    Bernie is beta even though Trump is a ****** wannabe. Clinton is also gamma.

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