read books and understand how my types examples fit them by VI impressions
after some years of typing people you'll type lesser to IEI
read books and understand how my types examples fit them by VI impressions
after some years of typing people you'll type lesser to IEI
As a (probable?) IEI-Fe, the trick to spotting them is that they will always have two "modes to them: an Ni mode where they pretty much stay inert and contemplate, and an Fe mode where they blend in and act like EIEs in social gatherings - so someone who very fluidly moves around conversations and manages to revitalize the group, but doesn't seek social interaction and plays constantly in subtle language and a veneer of politeness in the face of pretty much everything (unless the emotional mood demands some overdramatic acting). EIEs will always be on and be much more likely to reflect in rare quiet moments, and IEI-Nis are much more inert, and less likely to be comfortable with prolonged instances of social interactions.
The standard tells for an IEI will be there: hesitance, clumsiness (my LSI best friend described it as me moving in the most physically uncomfortable positions constantly, like an alien testing out a new body), lack of environmental awareness - very much a sense of a person who is very "in-their-head" about things and need something to ground them - but Fe subtypes better mask as EIEs, and Ni subtypes better mask as ILIs, though the mask dissolves after a while.
You spot an IEI-Fe by asking me to spot them for you. lol
(I didn't read the thread yet)Originally Posted by seare825
Actually this is interesting. What would you type a beta NF who usually acts dramatic and all over the place, while due to the drama lacks that subtle veneer of politeness really, does have some hesitance but also quite tense seeming, and very in their head when not acting dramatic or sometimes even when they are? In their head spaced out dreaming half of the time basically and the other half of the time all this drama (but NOT relaxed, NOT zen ever, whether spaced out dreaming or doing the drama'ing). Quickly switching between spaced out and engaging socially and drama'ing, in one moment may be spaced out the next moment full-on social and emotional and so on.
I've met pretty "standard" IEI-Fe's who are just like you describe them...they are not tense, even radiate their zen calmness, even though are also quite sociable and fun and even dramatic, and yes the phrase "veneer of politeness" fits them very well. But the above type of people (I've met more than one) are not "standard". They do tend to see themselves as IEI or introverted anyhow, when asked about it. But I find the self-reporting hard to trust as one of them related to IEI-Ni, and they are hardly ever inert or contemplative masquerading as an ILI or whatever lol. No way.
...edit: Oh addition. The one reporting themselves to be IEI-Ni has also said they can't ever be in the present, like whatever they are doing it's not experienced as if they are doing it for the first time in the moment and in the here, but they would very much like to be able to have that experience, but they only managed to have it when doing party drugs. Not sure if that'd be called Si or Se on here, lol.
Also, I personally enjoy their energy, don't mind them being not relaxed or (over)emotional all over the place. Tho' even for me it's a bit much sometimes lool but usually quite OK. & I think it may be Fe creative because it's so all over the place as in, I *usually* don't mind them doing one mood now, and suddenly another mood next. I could be wrong though, EIEs are supposed to be drama queens too.
And I said "usually".... sometimes I have enough lol. If I'm already not in a good place, mainly then, maybe. Bc their stuff does require me having extra resources lol to deal with it sometimes. But again...usually I enjoy their energy otherwise
PS: It's not logical to me that an IEI-Fe would have two modes but EIE-Ni would have only one mode.
Last edited by grumpyvic81; 10-08-2020 at 10:34 PM.
They both have two modes since the nature of the creative is to turn on and off, used as needed, like a tool.
perhaps the difference lies in just how often it gets switched on.
I can definitely unintentionally mask as ILI (especially when tired heee) but when my Fe is on, boy is it on. I subconsciously view Fe (which I kinda equate with socializing) as something that's either completely on or off.. maybe an IEI-Fe navigates more fluidly between the two states as well.
curiously, i've always thought of myself to be more ENFP-like (back when I knew MBTI and not socionics) than EIE-like when I am "fully socializing".
@grumpyvic81
How would you rate the IEI on a scale of 1-10 from Vegetable to Ok
I had a funny experience during quarantine after a few days of being a lil veggie with basically no real-world stimulation. I drove somewhere for the first time in a bit, and it felt like I was living a second in the future. it was very meta too, since i realized it as it happened, but could do nothing about it. for example, i would slow down behind the car at a red light, and in my mind I was already stopped (it was about to happen, so) so i kept very slightly misjudging how to modulate my speed since i assumed i was already at a slower speed i was about to be at instead of the one i was Presently in. idk how to explain. it was interesting.
in phases when i get more out of touch with the real world i have this problem where i have everything i need to do lined up perfectly in my head, but i always overlook actually doing them since in my head it really feels like it's already been done. for example i see a pair of socks on my drawer and i make a note that i'll have to put it in the laundry basket, but in imagining it, it feels like it got done. I see it again later and assume i'll just put it away later. so now it's done.
..But it's not!!
yk when you wake up dead tired in the middle of the night having to pee and you keep dreaming of going to the bathroom and thinking it's done, waking up in sadness, rinse repeat, instead of actually doing it. like that but less extreme. yeah. well, i'm rambling..!
edit: these things only happen when i'm kind of depressed & can't get out of my head
Last edited by persimmonism; 09-26-2022 at 02:45 AM.
Lol I'm biased rightThey both have two modes since the nature of the creative is to turn on and off, used as needed, like a tool.
perhaps the difference lies in just how often it gets switched on.
I can definitely unintentionally mask as ILI (especially when tired heee) but when my Fe is on, boy is it on. I subconsciously view Fe (which I kinda equate with socializing) as something that's either completely on or off.. maybe an IEI-Fe navigates more fluidly between the two states as well.
curiously, i've always thought of myself to be more ENFP-like (back when I knew MBTI and not socionics) than EIE-like when I am "fully socializing".
@grumpyvic81
How would you rate the IEI on a scale of 1-10 from Vegetable to Ok
Thanks for the description. And that was very interesting about the timeline messups lol
ha!Lol I'm biased right
Thanks for the description. And that was very interesting about the timeline messups lol
"timeline messups" LOL funny. maybe I'm a wannabe time-traveler.
If you're right, then I have a dual friend. Definitely an addictive relationship, but I don't know her type yet. It's just too difficult to break her into pieces and analyse them.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
at some stage you will realize how many duals already knocked on your door throughout your life, while you were busy focusing on other people ;-)
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
The rule of thumb is that both IEIs and EIEs have Fe and Ni modes, it's more of a matter of which one is more dominant. EIEs tend to have very stormy emotions, and pair that with a desire for control, manipulating their Fe and Ni to say exactly the right things with their EJ dispositions, while an IEI tends to use their Fe and Ni to place themselves in a neutral position as best as they can, using lighter emotions and a desire passivity to place themselves in a position where they're not liked nor hated by anyone. EJ and IP temperament differences really shine here even with subtypes.
This is a good example of an EJ-IP interaction, with Daenerys (an EIE), and Sansa (an SEI). Notice how Daenerys uses very wide, very clear expressions of emotions to explain exactly what she wants, and aims for control of the conversation. When she needs to be harsh, you can hear it and see it in her facial expressions, but when she needs to be tender (when both think an agreement is almost reached), Daenerys immediately changes her Fe expression to a very tender disposition, leading the conversation towards a resolution and a friendship, but when she loses control of the conversation, she immediately bites back using Fe because she has a clear understanding of what ground has been lost. The environmental atmosphere is essentially an extension of Daenerys's desires (I want you to know that Tyrion should not have trusted Cersei. I did not manipulate Jon, he manipulated me. All seven kingdoms are mine by right.) , and her dominant Fe gives her the ability to control it to her liking, and give her absolute faith in her ability to steer a conversation (just like a typical Fe-dominant).
Sansa, on the other hand, positions herself exactly like an IEI would in a conversation - very neutral, emotive when necessary, but never in a way where she has to initiate, or where she puts her position at risk. In fact, Sansa uses her creative Fe to deflect, deflect, and deflect - Daenerys talks about Tyrion never trusting Cersei? Okay, well, families can be complicated. Daenerys gets angry about a lack of respect shown to her from entering Winterfell? Well, that was a mistake on my part, I should have thanked you when you arrived. Yet, at the same time, Sansa never puts her REAL priorities at risk, and manages to slip them out in a way where it is clear what she's looking for in the conversation and what the emotional atmosphere demands - Sansa lightly comments on certain worries of her to evaluate, using her Ti, what sort of actions that she needs to take (Can I position myself in a way where I can help absolve Tyrion? Is Jon being manipulated by the dragon queen? Will the dragon queen give the North their throne after the war is over?).
EIEs will always attempt to seek control of the emotional atmosphere, as an extension of themselves, while IEIs use their Fe to cleverly position themselves WITHIN the emotional atmosphere rather than affecting it directly. Fe mode and Ni mode exist in both types, but the frequencies are modulated by type and subtype (EIEs will use more Fe and less Ni, IEIs will use more Ni and less Fe). Both functions are absolutely vital to the program of both types, and allows them to accurately understand motivations and interacting with the emotional atmosphere around them, but the dominant/creative differences will always come out in the end.
Thanks for your response... Based on this, how would you categorise the people I described above? Because they can do both the active emotional thingy to control&get what they want from others and the passive listening thingy to protect their position, it totally depends on the environment is what it seems like. You did say that both modes exist in both types but I really can't tell which one dominates for these people, it seems so close to equal.
PS: I'm not terribly hung up on typing and don't even truly believe in types per se but I'm curious for a specific reason (too complex to get into that now)
I'd be interested to hear why, if you ever get into it.
I'm interested in analysis of manipulation techniques mainly. I'm also interested in how relationships would play out with such people when not manipulative (but also when manipulative). This is one way for me to pull out patterns better. These patterns themselves I don't tend to talk about on here, as it's all highly private and personal stuff for me usually. Categorising can help to dive in better, even if the categories themselves are bullshit.
So for example, I'm interested in all those techniques with some people being/playing passive while placing themselves in or keeping their desired position (like IEI?), yet possibly also are trying to control the direction of things and the relationship itself (like EIE?). There are a lot of things to get into about just that one thing too.
Speaking of that example, the person I was quoting/asking above, it also specifically speaks of "passivity to place themselves in a position where they're not liked nor hated by anyone". This interests me because it's also a question sometimes whether the person is just trying to do this or trying to control the relationship itself. Do you, as an IEI think that IEIs can try to do the latter too and if so how?
Or another example I can share... interestingly enough sometimes these manipulation techniques can be so subtle as, just using the right tone and attitude and intent, that is NOT even like being nice or kind (aggressive or hostile either though), yet it can achieve things that otherwise stereotypically would be achieved by niceness/kindness, e.g. placating the other person. By simply shifting some context of the situation perhaps.
I have lots of examples really from certain life experiences of mine but most of them I don't like to share.
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