Fe PoLR vs Fe Seeking / Suggestive
Right... i still can't figure out my type, from EII and now I'm stuck between ILI and LII
Few weeks ago i asked about Se, that helped a little and now I'm stuck with Fe...
I've read countless posts, threads and websites regarding ILI / LII, but that doesn't help to clear my doubts
I hope this will help me out, and to anyone having the same question as i do
Anyways, what's the difference between Fe PoLR and Fe Suggestive?
Both are 1D, but the position of "valuing or not" is a little confusing
They may appear similar before a Fe lead is introduced. Both are 1D Fe types, of course.
So the differentiating factor seems to be that LII wants to be tossed into the group atmosphere, to "join the fun" so to speak. The ILI does not want this necessarily, since the ethical pressure is too much for them to enjoy. Well, both the suggestive and the PoLR are overwhelmed, the difference is that the PoLR is producing and the suggestive is accepting. This allows the suggestive function of the LII to receive and be inundated with Fe.
Said another way:
To this end, the LII, above all things, appreciates others' attempts to get him to "open up" emotionally and express his true thoughts and views of the world - not just as an abstract ideal living in his head, but as something that other people actually care about enough to participate in and bring to fulfillment. His focus on important abstract matters also leads him to detach from the world, if it is not complemented with a healthy dose of silliness. The LII is usually oblivious to his emotional-psychological state and feels little responsibility for improving it, not to mention the state of others. This means that "bad emotions" can build up in him until some environmental factor comes along to alleviate them. Visible demonstrations of emotional warmth play a major part in this: something as simple as a big smile and a hug is enough to brighten an LII's day. The LII can be attracted to insincere displays of affection, even if he consciously realizes that they are only in jest.
There are countless differences between the two types, not just this. Why not look at Ij vs Ip too? Etc
I suppose that is pretty accurate, but "open up" in a non forceful way, since i don't like being "forced", i need the reasoning behind it or just get me flattered idkOriginally Posted by Nephilthoth
But it depends on the group I'm hanging out with
Last edited by Fransiskus; 05-13-2022 at 04:13 AM.
I've read countless of temperaments and Reinin dichotomies and i can relate to both to be honest
I figured that to find my type is to understand which is my PoLR & Seeking, since it's very apparent in my daily lives but can't decide which is what ( at this topic, whether my Fe is PoLR or Suggestive, and/or my Se )
Well you looked at all this stuff and still can’t decide, so I don’t understand why you think Polr vs DS would be easier for you to figure out.
I would look at ITR if I were you to figure this out. It’s easier to simply figure out if you instinctively like and get along with SEE or ESE better at long term close contact.
ILI and LII are clearly different, it's not that difficult to distinguish them, especially during the conversation.
But as for that, I do have an excerpt to explain both of them:
As in LII, they usually would be more orientated by long distance creation, as in, they are trying to match a certain structure they do have with the conditional flexibility of legitimate structures outside of the environment. Thus, they'd rather be more accomplishing or achieving towards what they would've done to create a system that isn't so detached by the conception of people visualization but rather to overdo themselves towards discussions that aren't detached from the reality and not so "in-their-head", as in being completely imaginative.
1D Fe is still, at least, capable enough to learn how to express themselves, but the different is, they don't want to show it, unless they feel comfortable with the discussion, the comfortable here means that they will unleash their sarcastical remark and trying to show that they aren't as robotic as they think, they are human, they can speak like what human use to, it's just drained and not that involved, and if they want to be involved, it's too weak to influence people or express themselves, that's why, when many people said that someone is such a nice person, means that they don't know anything about what people are, they don't know how they look like or just don't know them enough to explain how a person actually is.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
Yeah, i don't think i've ever met / realized who's SEE or ESE in my life, due to my inexperience with Socionics
With that being said, I hate being stuck with people I cannot talk to and reason with to reach an understanding, people who are aggressive, believing might makes right, or narrow-minded arrogants, completely certain that they are right.
Not sure if that's more of SEE or ESE, i'll read more about them soon
I don’t really understand what the issue here is with experience. Don’t you have memories of many people you’ve met in your life since you were born? Why not go back and try typing some of them using your knowledge now? There are bound to be some ESEs and SEEs in there.
What you described sounds like a normal reasonable human thing. Hard to say which type you are because of it.
I was just assuming the "unhealthy" ones in my life right now ( which i can't type at the moment )
And about that, like i said before i will try to read posts and articles about it to gain a more of certain understanding
Besides, the reason i created this post is to help me understand more about Socionics and certain opinions of other people, so sorry if I'm being stupid here
No problem dude it’s a good idea.
I hope you are able to type more people around you and yourself soon.
The only thing I've seen is Fe seeking likes to bask in someone's Fe. They might not show signs of Fe, but they like being showered in it. While Fe PoLR is distrustful of Fe, if they get a super compliment from Fe they might think "I bet that person says that to everybody.".
Please read carefully
Difference Fe and Se polr vs suggestive:
1- polr is at the mental ring(conscious) while suggestive is at the vital ring(unconscious). Meaning Fe polr triggers ILI in a bad way and draw the interest of LII although it catches them off guard
2- the value and not valuing can be confusing because we think we value certain things to get other people's approval. So even ILI may think they value Fe if they get a secondary payoff of this
3- suggestive means as the name says, the person is often suggestible through there. There was an article I read once that explained why hypnosis don't work for all people and said it was related to how people were suggested. Most hypnotists use Si (white sensing) on their subjects, and the subject is often a female with Si-suggestive (IEE-ENFp). That's why it works for them
4- The suggestive for ILI is Se. Means, if you push them, they'll actually get into action. If you "push" an LII they won't react very well.
5- ILI with heavy Ni ego is related to autism (this is information from both Gulenko and Bukalov, 2 well known socionists from different schools)
Differences between quadras:
-ILI is gamma quadra they value Se, Ni, Fi and Te meaning ILI receives the nickname of "critic" they pick on such, such points and then go to big pictures explaining why something is useless and how to be better, they are good couselours to SEE who are conquerors and often act impulsive although stuff ususally works out for them. ILI gives them the full panoramic perspective of the issue. They also engage in small talk fairly easier than LII because their counterparts are gamma SFs who are heavy socials, they want to know anything about everyone elses lives (Fi - ethics of relations). So although they have a colder look (warning! V.I. is to be taken with a grain of salt because it's the least scientific element in typology overrall), they will more willingly engage in gossip but they hate excessive dramatic, displays of emotions (Fe). Gammas are democratic and construtivists, meaning that in relation to politics they will often don't give a rat's ass about your beliefs, religions, ideology as long as stuff is working well, economy is high and good and you don't mess with their property. Valuing procedural Te is evolutionary logic, ILI (specially programmers like James Gosling) enjoy overcomplicating things pretending they are simplifying it (sorry that last one was my rant on Java programming and modern object orientation in general).
-LII is alpha quadra they value Ti, Ne, Si and Fe meaning LII gets the nickname of "analyst", they freaking analyze everything, they analyze their food, their relationships, they analyze typology. So mind you, LII are primarily logical types, so different from ILIs they won't pick on details first and then explain why. They will usually just notice the logical inconsistency. Ti is logic per se you understand? Te is procedural and dynamic, it is dependent on everchanging environment. Ti logic was true yesterday, is true today and will be true tomorrow. So factually wrong information piss off Ti lead (LII and LSI). It's not about efficiency for them, it's about "correctness". Valuing Si, LII will be less likely to sacrifice comfort for big gains. Also they are much less in the future than ILI, they can plan for like a weak or a month, but planning their whole life and funeral is something unlikely. Valuing Fe, they enjoy displays of emotion, they feel more "alive", but they are not interested in relationships (Fi - who is dating who, who talked sh*t about who, stuff like that). Alpha quadra is aristocratic and emotivists, meaning they appreciate social order, they respect elder's knowledge but also, they think less of creating empires, going to the moon is cool but not mandatory and they seek novelty, hoard different experiences, although because of aristocracy they are more willing to be members of classical family (mother, father, son) instead of wife 1, wife 2, son, robot, etc..
Rational vs Irrational (cyclotome vs schyzotome):
LII is part of the rationals need to make sense of things, if they don't, they snap. ILI is part of the Irrationals, they let things happen and adapt. If you try to put them in a fixed model, they snap. Rationals wake up in a bad mood, the day is likely to be bad. If good mood, then good. Irrationals have way more ups and downs during the day.
Quasi-identical types:
ILI and LII are quasi-identical in the theory of relations. Meaning both of them are on the NT club, they are researchers. If they find a topic interesting they will nerd it out about it for some time. LII and ILE are heavy researchers while ILI and LIE are light researchers. Both of them will be like introverted, not very expressive, not very social, not very down to earth but the general approach to things is almost the opposite because of how functions are stacked in each type. In other words, they look very much alike but upon closer inspection are very different (everyone actually, but you got the point)
Duality and conflict in each type:
So you may have noticed, ILI's dual is the LII's conflictor and vice-versa.
ILI-SEE: The SEE is a conqueror, Alexander the Great(I think it was him) walked up to a hobo who was looking at the sun doing jack all and said "tell me what you want, I'll get it to you, I can conquer anything". The hobo said "get away from my sunlight please, that's all I want". In another instance some clever man made a puzzle with a knot and challenged anyone who could figure out how to untie the knot. Alexander just pulled out a sword and cut the freaking thing without properly untying it, well he accomplished it his way. This is probably polr Ti from SEE and is one of the main things that differs them from SLEs for instance. They just want to get the thing done no matter what. ILI admire displays of power like that. The LII pretty much despises this type of behavior.
LII-ESE: The ESE is life of the party, caretaker, jolly fellow, tells jokes, wants to make sure everyone is ok, sometimes to a fault because caring much of other people and less of him/her self. Have strong Se but only as demonstrative, Fe is the lead here so they can easily influence LII, they know how to tone it up or down. LII is often immersed in his own stuff so caretakers are good to have around. Display of emotions shows the person cares, is a living thing, LII appreciates that. ILI on the other hand hates display of emotions, they are often sarcastic about it (not so much as the ESI), ILI don't easily fall for emotional manipulation as LII do. Now this is something from Jung also when describing the introverted thinking type (LII and LSI): they do not always readily realize when people are being cunning, inferior Fe makes them assume emotional displays are usually genuine, people ask them for money, they give money, people ask to dance with their wife, they lend the wife. They are a bit more lacking in "street smarts" than ILIs.
I hope it helped, I hope it didn't bore you too much either lol.
Last edited by Lycantrope; 05-23-2022 at 01:26 AM. Reason: Forgot the bold
Isn't Alpha Quadra Democratic ?
Officially, yes. But here is the thing, I've never met a Delta who was aristocratic, pretty much all of them democrats. So this is one of the things that Reinin got wrong IMO. Alphas are less aristocratic than Betas but they are still aristocratic. Also, both LII and ILI are strategists although Reinin says ILI is tactician but that's unlikely (I agree with Gulenko on that one). The ST's are more tacticians and NT's are more result oriented and strategists.
Ah Ok cool ! Now that you have clarified your position, I understand. As you can imagine I, like probably a lot of us here, was a bit confused .
Deltas are communal, but they are aristocratic about being communal. "We're all One family, but I'm still closer to God than you are!" - Delta Social Workers.
Gammas are competitive capitalists, but they are democratic about being capitalists. "You're right Brittany. Everybody is just... human or whatever." - ILI Daria.
Alphas are aliens and nerdy-normie- but they are democratic about being those things. "We're all rotten inside" ILE Peter on Familly Guy.
Hey thanks. I think this actually helps me understanding something.
elation of mood & laughing, humour, praise and admiration is more emotionally inspiring to Ti types (''you're amazing!'')
kindness, expression of empathy and love is more emotionally inspiring to Te types (''I miss you a lot'')
on average
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