Oh, I have acquaintances that are close with the main Wiccan societies of America.
Yes
No
I'm not sure.
It doesn't matter
Oh, I have acquaintances that are close with the main Wiccan societies of America.
I wouldn't know lol. I don't use the site as a social circle, so I'm out of the loop with what various people have going on with each other. Plus @mu4 likes to troll me and took my chat away lol
Greek Orthodox Christian specifically and the services were all in Greek. I was in the process of learning two languages when I first started going there. I daydreamed a lot and my American aunt forbid us to speak Greek in the house so as I learned more English the harder it was to understand the priest and the chanters. My favorite part of going to church was lighting the candles. the incense and the chanting. Our church walls were ceiling to floor icons and the windows were stained glass. I thought it was all so beautiful but haunting and scary too. The congregation was 3/4 Greek and the rest Americans, Armenians and Russians. I was allowed to drink coffee with milk and sugar but only at church, in the basement, after services. We had cake too.Originally Posted by Jeremy8419
Somewhere between the ages of 7-9 I started throwing fits on sunday morning to get out of church. It didn't work. I think I was 12 when I finally refused to go and they could no longer make me. I had a lot of mixed feelings but overall everyone I met in that specific church were nice people and never talked about hell, at least not to the children. I got that at home from my mormon, turned baptist aunt. She finally converted to Greek Orthodox after remarrying my uncle in the Greek church and following all the steps. She never let go of her base beliefs in sin and hell. She was something. :/
Then my bad experiences, which started with an aunt, continued with the born-agains but not at first. It was really insidious how they got young people to lure in other young people with promises that if you were born again you would not go to hell. I had the whole born-again religious experience and felt it like it was really happening, that Jesus had come into my heart and I was "saved". Remember this is a very influencing type of energy. It was present in a way that you thought you would live happily knowing you were going to heaven but they reinforced this by threatening with hell. In fact most of the sermons were about hellfire and nothing else. Very confusing for children and even young adults who are already questioning. #fearwasreal
Ok, so I am not knocking the Greek church since I was young and it all seemed magical with the colorful pictures, incense, chanting, coffee and cake. It actually inspired me later to look into mythology more and that is when I started noticing the patterns repeating. The further I looked into mythological stories from every culture I started to see that the rabbit hole was deeper than I thought. I really got into Joseph Campbell for awhile, love him... rip.
[Remember I am on chantrix and rambling today.I had a really cool magical + spiritual dream last night... oh, the memories from my childhood...our Greek church was a work of art decorated in gold. It would have been a cool art gallery with cake and coffee and I loved the communion wine.]
Last edited by Aylen; 03-06-2016 at 08:59 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Not to be a dick, but people on here sure seem to have rather odd stories of their lives lolGreek Orthodox Christian specifically and the services were all in Greek. I was in the process of learning two languages when I first started going there. I daydreamed a lot and my American aunt forbid us to speak Greek in the house so as I learned more English the harder it was to understand the priest and the chanters. My favorite part of going to church was lighting the candles. the incense and the chanting. Our church walls were ceiling to floor icons and the windows were stained glass. I thought it was all so beautiful but haunting and scary too. The congregation was 3/4 Greek and the rest Americans, Armenians and Russians. I was allowed to drink coffee with milk and sugar but only at church, in the basement, after services. We had cake too.
Then my bad experiences, which started with an aunt, continued with the born-agains but not at first. It was really insidious how they got young people to lure in other young people with promises that if you were born again you would not go to hell. I had the whole born-again religious experience and felt it like it was really happening, that Jesus had come into my heart and I was "saved". Remember this is a very influencing type of energy. It was present in a way that you thought you would live happily knowing you were going to heaven but they reinforced this by threatening with hell. In fact most of the sermons were about hellfire and nothing else. Very confusing for children and even young adults who are already questioning. #fearwasreal
Ok, so I am not knocking the Greek church since I was young and it all seemed magical with the colorful pictures, incense, chanting, coffee and cake. It actually inspired me later to look into mythology more and that is when I started noticing the patterns repeating. The further I looked into mythological stories from every culture I started to see that the rabbit hole was deeper than I thought. I really got into Joseph Campbell for awhile, love him... rip.
[Remember I am on chantrix and rambling today.I had a really cool magical + spiritual dream last night... oh, the memories from my childhood...our Greek church was a work of art decorated in gold. It would have been a cool art gallery with cake and coffee and I loved the communion wine.]
Anyways, so... Uh... Why not just get into the more mysticism side of your original religion? It makes more sense than choosing mysticism from random new age people, especially since there are libraries full of information on it.
Born agains make me want to say, "but you were already baptized... (or not)" lol
I think I missed something here. I had two quote notifications but when I looked they were already gone. If the wiccan thing was in response to me, I see nothing wrong with practicing ancient earth magic with no intention to harm.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
A "creepy" was posting and I was replying. Now my ability to view new post quotes is broke lol.I think I missed something here. I had two quote notifications but when I looked they were already gone. If the wiccan thing was in response to me, I see nothing wrong with practicing ancient earth magic with no intention to harm.
Edit: nevermind, I was being a dick too.
While exploring mysticism I follow a logical path of progression, iow, I know too much to turn back. I still love the mystical feel of my original religion and I have a couple small altars in my house. One is primarily influenced by east asian and Indian mysticism. I have simplified my beliefs over the years Shedding many of them. I have two books I look to for spiritual guidance now, "The Tao Te Ching" and Richard Bach's "Illusions". Mysticism is found within since it is really a state of being. I can watch my mom and feel the same energy I had felt in the Greek church, I am moving forward.
Anyways, so... Uh... Why not just get into the more mysticism side of your original religion? It makes more sense than choosing mysticism from random new age people, especially since there are libraries full of information on it.
Born agains make me want to say, "but you were already baptized... (or not)" lol
About born-agains, The first time you are baptized in water and the second time in spirit. According to them it doesn't matter if you were baptized as a baby or later in water, you are still going to hell if you do not get baptized in the holy spirit. It is a very subjective experience but because of the build up you feel like you have gained the keys to the kingdom. Pretty Fe actually because of the emotional influence involved. Then you start harassing your family member about going to hell, if they don't get baptized in spirit too, until someone finally snaps you out of it. For me it was an ILI stepdad..I have since felt that same feeling, minus the Christian aspect, in a variety of other situations, including, during a physical interaction with another person who was not Jesus. Who knew?
So, if the "born agains" are right I am actually saved if I ask to be forgiven at the moment of my death I will not be refused. Win/sin/win, see what I mean?
Edit: Water vs spirit. http://ichthys.com/mail-born%20again.htm
Last edited by Aylen; 03-06-2016 at 09:55 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
So they basically reject their original baptism?While exploring mysticism I follow a logical path of progression, iow, I know too much to turn back. I still love the mystical feel of my original religion and I have a couple small altars in my house. One is primarily influenced by east asian and Indian mysticism. I have simplified my beliefs over the years Shedding many of them. I have two books I look to for spiritual guidance now, "The Tao Te Ching" and Richard Bach's "Illusions". Mysticism is found within since it is really a state of being. I can watch my mom and feel the same energy I had felt in the Greek church, I am moving forward.
About born-agains, The first time you are baptized in water and the second time in spirit. According to them it doesn't matter if you were baptized as baby or later in water, you still go to hell if you do not get baptized in the holy spirit and it is a very subjective experience but because of the build up you feel like you have gained to the keys to the kingdom. Pretty Fe actually because of the emotional influence involved. Then you start harassing your family member about going to hell, if they don't get baptized in spirit too, until someone finally snaps you out of it. For me it was an ILI stepdad..
So, if the born again are right I am actually saved if I ask to be forgiven at the moment of my death I will not be refused. Win/sin/win see what I mean?
Your last sentence is Catholicism as well. East Orthodox doesn't have forgiveness?
The dick part was referring to the family situations you seem to have grown up under, not the your reactions to it part.
Yeah original baptism was usually not your choice and it was only by water so in order to get to heaven you have to be baptized in spirit and it has to be a conscious choice. You basically ask for it and then wait for it to come over you.
The Orthodox church has forgiveness. Like I said the people were really nice and yes forgiving, except behind closed doors but I got that from eavesdropping on adults. I have talked to Catholics who are less than forgiving too. They all pray for forgiveness though just like Catholics and they pray that they may forgive others.
It has been awhile and I remember so little now about the whole born again process but this quote from that site explains it better than I do.
Let us start with some pertinent principles. First, Paul's statement in 1Cor.1:17 that he was sent to preach the gospel not to baptize is very telling. It certainly does not say that water-baptism is wrong, but it is indeed a very strange statement to make if it were, in Paul's view of things, a mandate that all believers must be water-baptized. It is also true as you say in regard to Eph.4:5 that this verse does not rule out water-baptism. It does, however, state (on a par with there being only One Lord Jesus Christ) that there is indeed only "one" baptism. At the very least, this ought to mean that there is only one baptism of any true spiritual consequence, and, if that is true, no serious Christian would venture to place water-baptism in this premier position over and against the baptism of the Spirit.
Clearly, water-baptism is not and could not be any sort of means or requirement for a salvation that is based upon grace through faith (Eph.2:8-9) - which begs the question of why then there should be a mandate to be baptized with water, especially since it is the Spirit baptism to which John and Jesus looked forward and told us to esteem (Mk.1:8; Lk.24:48; Jn.15:26; 16:5-15; Acts 1:4-5; 1:7-8), and since water baptism has been so historically divisive, so prone to the inducement of guilt and fear for the un-baptized, and so engendering of false confidence in works and rituals for the baptized.
Last edited by Aylen; 03-06-2016 at 10:14 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I figured that out and deleted my response.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Well, that's certainly a different take on it, considering the water represents being baptized by the holy spirit. Removing the holy spirit part makes it entirely pointless, because then you're just taking a bath as a baby in public lol. Catholic sacrament of Confirmation is when we make the conscious choice. Baptism is the forgiveness of original sin.
Well, I mean, if you've lived a bad life and ask for forgiveness when you die, that's considered "good enough" for the Catholic Church. Is it not the same for East Orthodox? Because the benefit of born agains you mentioned is already present, at least in Catholicism.
The Orthodox church pretty much has the same as the Catholic church but probably a bit more theatrical in nature. They believe the same things even though I feel like they are less strict. The priests have to be married and I don't think they allow same sex marriages so you have to be straight or at least find a beard who is willing to play your wife. All the priests I knew seemed pretty straight especially the one who ran off with my mom's friend leaving the congregation in a spin. This was not while he was an active priest though. He had left to care for a sick wife. He ended up leaving her. Funny as I thought he was a hypocrite on many occasions, like when he was smoking a cig looking like Brando when he visited and socialized with my family. My great uncle was a retired priest so I was raised around a few different priests over the years. The priest I liked best had a daughter who I nearly corrupted while she babysat me. I think I was 9. I introduced her to a neighbor boy and she fell for him. I liked her though and she was pretty and let me play with her dolls. I thought I might be like her when I grew up. She danced and listened to rock music. It was not seen as a sin. I remember we had parties in the church and everyone danced in a circle and I was right in there. lol I don't think Catholics party like we do.They even broke plates, in celebration, in the church basement, which is where the action was. hahah Another very Fe environment. Funny how they were all solemn upstairs and party animals downstairs but only during specific parties.
I am pretty sure born agains are exempt even from that but don't quote me on it.The Catholic Church, as well as the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches believe blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to be an unforgivable sin (i.e., eternal sin).
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church §1864, there are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.[2]
So basically there is no hell in my future if I choose to have faith in my two baptisms or my belief that hell is a state of mind, not a place.. Who was it that said "There are no atheists on their deathbed."? I think it has been falsely attributed to several atheist philosophers. I guess I will see when the time comes.
Last edited by Aylen; 03-06-2016 at 10:57 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I believe the correct phrase in Catholicism is "state of existence" or "state of being."The Orthodox church pretty much has the same as the Catholic church but probably a bit more theatrical in nature. They believe the same things even though I feel like they are less strict. The priests have to be married and I don't think they allow same sex marriages so you have to be straight or at least find a beard who is willing to play your wife. All the priests I knew seemed pretty straight especially the one who ran off with my mom's friend leaving the congregation in a spin. This was not while he was an active priest though. He had left to care for a sick wife. He ended up leaving her. Funny as I thought he was a hypocrite on many occasions, like when he was smoking a cig looking like Brando when he visited and socialized with my family. My great uncle was a retired priest so I was raised around a few different priests over the years. The priest I liked best had a daughter who I nearly corrupted while she babysat me. I think I was 9. I introduced her to a neighbor boy and she fell for him. I liked her though and she was pretty and let me play with her dolls. I thought I might be like her when I grew up. She danced and listened to rock music. It was not seen as a sin. I remember we had parties in the church and everyone danced in a circle and I was right in there. lol I don't think Catholics party like we do.
I am pretty sure born agains are exempt even from that but don't quote me on it.
So basically there is no hell in my future if I choose to have faith in my two baptisms or my belief that hell is a state of mind, not a place.. Who was it that said "There are no atheists on their deathbed."? I think it has been falsely attributed to several atheist philosophers. I guess I will see when the time comes.
Once a Cat...Nine times a Cat...Always a Cat.
Your sig needs to be about 85% it's current width. Doesn't fit on my phone screen.
No, as it goes against any rational thought which humans should acquire by 2016.
Also, people equating values and morals with religion, you must be a pretty shitty human to begin with, if you need a God to tell you what's right or wrong.
Luckily, you are utmost charming and the balance in the universe prevails.
@Aylen, just out of curiosity. You mentioned at some point that you had been expected not to pray to the Father God other than through Jesus but how did anybody who had said so reconcile it with Gospel in which Jesus had taught His disciples the Our Father prayer? Interesting.
I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.
Nah, just the one with common sense and the balance prevails.
They used this .
John 16:23-27 King James Version (KJV)
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Last edited by Aylen; 03-07-2016 at 03:26 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I'm a skeptic and the term agnostic atheist is probably most fitting. I find the term atheist to be too dogmatic on its own, being associated with a certainty I think I certainly lack. Perhaps there is a creator god, but because it either lacks the ability or simply refuses to do so, does not intervene with its work. Maybe the creator god is dead and all we have left is its masterpiece to observe: A creator that has only become famous billions of years after the Big Bang.
I find the existence of life to be one of the most amazing riddles we've ever come across, even more puzzling than our consciousness. I wonder if we'll ever know how life came into existence. What pieces of the puzzle are we lacking? Some people say the pieces missing are God/dieties/supernatural forces; I'm disinclined to make such an assumption. All evidence does point to the fact that we live in a universe that operates within the laws of physics. We only need make the effort to figure out the hows. There is so much more to know.
If there is anything to be most skeptical of, it is of those who claim to have special or privileged knowledge that is conveniently inaccessible to everyone else and use this to have authority over their fellow man. Since life has emerged and evolved from the laws of physics, we are all bound to such laws equally. Someone must prove to me exceptions to these laws, especially if they want to use these to claim authority. I think that since no one has sufficiently proven the actual existence of a deity, let alone one that demands such and such from us, that we should instead use reason to determine our courses of action in life, the type of morality we should live by, and the type of government we are willing to have represent us. Such an approach is accessible to all.
Heeded.
Your god only "forgives" if you believe in him, and follow his immoral teachings, which include punishing people for having genuine doubts about not believing, and causing eternal suffering to those who have only committed mortal sins, at worst.
Jesus died for no reason. The theological justification is that he died and suffered for a mere 3.5 days at most, for the sins of the whole world, to absolve a debt owed to himself. A judge or a banker would tell you that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
If Jesus's death absolved all the sin, then why do people still go to hell?
Why does Jesus only have to suffer 3.5 days?
How is causing another injustice (i.e. causing the one person who was allegedly without sin to suffer) moral? It is just another act of immorality to allow that to happen.
The greatest crime is when a immortal being, with full foresight, allows injustice to happen. It is not humans who should be forgiven, but any god, if they happen to exist.
/chases you with a broom
It is all very well to be "forgiven", but does it make you a better person?
@Subteigh, I just wish my raging atheist of a boyfriend was as civil and respectful as you are. <3
I will not get into this (I've been suspiciously avoidant of discussion of any kind lately, haven't I? Perhaps I have reached enlightenment.) however I will say that you have sneaked some dubious assumptions into your reasoning. Admittedly, the assumptions on the side of believers are far more courageous. ;>
I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.
/whacks you with broom
I think others have found me more blunt in the past, so it is probably a matter of perspective.
I disagree with your remark about the assumptions on the side of believers being more courageous, because if atheists have any assumptions or doubts in regards religious dogma, they know they will be eternally damned for them. I also don't think the issue of genuine doubt or ignorance of the glory of the divine is an issue for atheists, but for those who believe god to be moral and merciful.
Studies have shown that less religious countries and less religious times are far less violent than the more religious countries and times. What virtue is there in believing in god?
See? Courageous!
I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
/keeps whacking
Bad, subt! Bad!
/whack
I suppose this is some improvement on you believing that Damnation is acceptable. Perhaps you are now progressing out of the Bronze Age?
It is difficult to see how belief in god actually makes a person good, especially when the evidence suggests that fundamentalism is strongly linked to violence towards others in society.
Most of what you say is wrong and short-sighted. I would have expected you to have put more thought into things than you have.
Now, go Te Si like you're supposed to! /shakes finger
I doubt that I am wrong on the immorality of Damnation, or on religious countries being more violent than secular ones, so I really do not think you are correct.
Well, in relation to Socionics, you're operating under Ti-Ne when discussing Religion, which is Left-Ring Social Progress, placing your thoughts and assertions as being receding into the archaic, not the other way around.
I'll make a deal with you. I'll forgive you and forget what you said, if you renounce violence.
No can do. Morality > methods. Stabilizing hearts globally requires Fe-, not Fe+.
I disagree, in the context of the discussion. Violence, like War, and Damnation, is inherently evil.
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