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Thread: Are you a leftist or a rightist?

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    negative rights are indistinguishable from positive rights when you get down to it, a freedom from having your things stolen is a right to personal property, etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    negative rights are indistinguishable from positive rights when you get down to it, a freedom from having your things stolen is a right to personal property, etc
    interesting claim but it's not entirely true because the rights are propositions for action within an assumed circumstance. For example you already have the right to personal property... and that is part of the assumed conditions, and the proposal is to repossess your farm and redistribute it... the right to property is thought of more like an inalienable right. I think people who came up with these terms would argue there are inalienable rights that are neither positive or negative.
    Last edited by rat200Turbo; 12-26-2017 at 01:21 PM.

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    if you can come up with an example of a negative right without a corresponding positive right I'd like to hear it

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    If the right to your own labor is inalienable...
    If someone tries to infringe on that inalienable right they are claiming a positive right to your labor.
    If you deny them the right you are claiming the negative right to abstain from providing them.
    The negative right is not to your own labor - that right is inalienable... the negative right is to abstain from providing for them, it is a response to their proposal.
    Now... if they claim a positive right to your labor, you could comply with them and relinquish your inalienable right, and become a slave... you need not claim the negative right and refuse.
    Basically the positive / negative claim to a right is dependent on the inalienable right, not the inverse right.

    As far as a negative right not dependent on a positive right goes...
    Peoples inherent right not to be murdered is inalienable. The inalienable right is derived from our humanity and existence and so on.
    So people have a negative right not to be run over by cars that is derived from the inalienable right.
    So if someone fails to look out for pedestrians and runs over one of them, they are prosecuted, they don't have the right to run over pedestrians and they never did.
    The negative right is not dependent on anything positive because it is based on the inherent right basically.
    Last edited by rat200Turbo; 12-26-2017 at 01:43 PM.

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    negative right to not be murdered is the right to life

    if I understand your first part you're talking about a right to fair compensation for your work, which is really a right to property in terms of a negative right to not be stolen from

    all rights have to be acknowledged of course to have an effect, my only point was that negative rights do not somehow become more meaningful than positive rights or are somehow "freer" or less restrictive, because they're essentially just the spin you put on what are really all just rights in general and all act as restraint on other people's behavior in some positive sense

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    No, the right to not be murdered is not a negative right it is an inalienable right. It is never considered possible that murder is permissible.
    A positive or negative right is applied, and it progresses the law forward.
    You are merely framing the same inalienable right in a way that sounds positive or negative but which amounts to no functional difference.
    Last edited by rat200Turbo; 12-26-2017 at 02:03 PM.

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    I mean there are plenty of societies that do not recognize a right to life and thus murder (intentional unlawful killing) is a crime against property (in societies that recognize property rights but not the right to life, which believe it or not happens)

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    My point is simply there is no applied difference between those two phrasings of that right - right to life vs. right to not be murdered. It's an inalienable right.
    If you were to consider the right to murder others as a real right than you'd be engaging in positive vs. negative rights.
    A positive or negative right does implicate a hypothetical inverse right but its true legitimacy is based on the inalienable rights, I suppose.
    I think you can come up with a hypothetical inverse of any statement, whether it is applicable and a legitimate right is the real question.
    I would simply say those societies do not obey the actual law and they are not even functional societies, they may not even be considered societies.

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    yeah I agree my point was only ever that negative rights aren't some magically distinct category of rights that are somehow less intrusive into the lives of people. negative/positive qualifiers just add context but function in recognition of the same underlying, what you would call, "inalienable" right. which are really just values officially recognized by society and backed by force of law

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    Usually I'm moderate left. I have a few exceptions, such as abortion, but generally I believe that market relations degrade everything without scaffolds.

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    I understand Bertrand, I am just fleshing out my thoughts on the matter of inalienable rights, ... sometimes I have to ramble in order to understand something. carry on

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    I used to vote Green. And then I voted liberal once for the first and probably last time. I'm not sure how I'd define myself politically. I think politics can be misused by people as a way of showing how morally superior they are and that someone who doesn't believe the same things is a terrible human being and/or has a lower IQ or whatever.

    I ended up becoming a "Donald Trump supporter" in certain respects, although maybe at least part of that was reactionary because I had bad experiences with liberals (especially in real life). I flirted with socialism in the past, although I hardly read Marx or anyone like that. Now I think that socialism and Marxism are very empty, sterile, boring and potentially dangerous. I don't believe in using physical violence to solve problems (unless someone is actually trying to use physical or sexual violence against you and/or someone else) [i.e. if it's actually happening in the moment--as opposed to hypothetically in the (distant) future]. I don't agree with Antifa. I think liberals (including women) can be prejudiced, chauvinistic, mean, hypocritical, phony, petty, violent, etc. just like anyone else.

    At the same time I know a lot of people don't like Donald Trump. Yet Azealia Banks voted for Donald Trump. Kanye West said he would've voted for Donald Trump. Billy Corgan also defended and supported Donald Trump. My aunt said, "I am really disgusted by this idiot [Donald Trump]. He is the embodiment of idiocy. He is a cunning monkey that appeals to the public with his entitlement and self-confidence."

    I like Stefan Molyneux, Camille Paglia, etc.:







    Last edited by HERO; 10-25-2018 at 09:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idontgiveaf View Post
    Wow politics is really a big hit
    Yeah, politics is good for ratings.

    But sex is even better

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    answer: no/yes

    the best of "right" is foundational to the best of "left", both are important and incomplete

    many shitholes in USA/world are pre-"right" and pre-"left"; pre-humanism, pre-ideals

    I go with whatever's necessary atm -- Se-SEE 8/9 + 5/4

    I think there’s a lot of truth to this. It’s probably a more enlightened perspective than my own. I’ve never really thought too much about how I identify politically, except that I’ve never voted on the right (i.e. for a conservative candidate) so far. Would someone who’s voted more for the Liberals, Democrats, Greens, etc. be more of a leftist while someone who’s voted more for the Conservatives and/or Republicans be more of a rightist? And then of course there’s the Libertarian option (especially in USA) Is it usually the case that people who are perceived as being more anti-war, anti-imperialism and/or anti-American are considered more left-wing (and occasionally ‘extreme left’ or ‘Marxist’/ ‘socialist’)?

    Regarding ‘shitholes’ in the world, I think there’s a lot of truth to that. Most of it has to do with abusive childrearing and childhood traumas. I knew a guy online whose parents were from Eastern Europe, and I think he voted Republican. I also know Eastern Europeans who said they admired dictators like Stalin and Ceausescu. Yet I think that childhood physical abuse and neglect can increase the chance that someone would admire tyrants and/or vote for reactionaries. In other words, people who support murderous reactionaries or totalitarian statists, often had more childhood physical abuse and neglect than a lot of the people who support non-violent/non-interventionist liberals and conservatives. Yet even people on the left who may admire dictators (e.g. Stalin) may also have suffered more physical abuse, neglect, etc. in their childhoods than leftists who don’t admire dictators. Of course admiring dictators doesn’t mean that one will engage in (‘politically-motivated’) violence, yet it doesn’t preclude that possibility either. Significant unresolved childhood traumas may increase the chance that one may sooner or later condone, tolerate, or support violence. (And is violence even effective against the potential future threat of fascism?)

    I occasionally listen to and read right-wing journalism, articles, shows. (I think I first started doing that around 2016). Here’s an article: https://www.infowars.com/report-trum...ole-countries/

    I don’t think Donald Trump mentioned abusive childrearing. Yet I think the best way to improve one’s nation and society is to improve the childrearing and also provide more and better psychotherapy for those who suffered from childhood traumas that may have adversely affected their health, decision-making, self-esteem, etc.

    Edit: I took these tests a couple of months ago (maybe I should take them again in the future):

    http://www.people-press.org/quiz/political-typology/

    Your best fit is...
    Core Conservatives

    http://gotoquiz.com/politics/politic...m-results.html

    You are a centrist moderate social libertarian.
    Right: 0.33, Libertarian: 3.02


    I also got these results with other tests (I might look for the links in the future):

    52% Economic Leftist: "Opposes deprivation and subordination. Supports solidarity and mutual aid."

    66% Social Liberal: "Supports tolerance, exploration, and diversity."

    71% Civil Libertarian: "Supports robust debate, intellectual engagement and free expression."

    65% Antistatist: "Rejects centralized violence and authority as unnecessary and detrimental."

    72% Anti-Militarist: "Opposes the non-defensive use of military force and highly resistant to incurring collateral damage."


    - My match for the Political Spectrum Self-Test is:
    Populist
    Last edited by HERO; 10-25-2018 at 09:08 AM.

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    Most certainly a leftist, although I find a lot of leftist people too harsh. But I would love universal healthcare, basically free college (at least community college), etc etc and I don't mind paying for it. I think I've read articles about how this sort of stuff actually saves society money as a whole, because when people don't get preventative health or education they end up in more strenuous situations. And I think it's irresponsible to not have a social safety net when the US is extremely economically productive and jobs lost to automation are not coming back. If only a small subset of skills are marketable and those skills generate enormous wealth then the wealth should be shared to some degree.

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    I don't know if I'm left or right anymore. I don't know what is *right* anymore. I've been starting to search for humanists and what their political stances are and why. My side isn't globalist, it's humanist and I feel like there is so little nuance these days. I've been coming to doubt the left because it's becoming increasingly radical. I no longer know if I can trust the liberal media at all. The agendas are 100x larger than the news. Who cares about the news, the facts or the truth as long as it supports a certain narrative or agenda, right? Just siding with the left or the right because both are becoming more radical seems like a process of radicalization and I've already been somewhat affected. My head is spinning. I need to figure out whose side is whose, what side is what, and why. And the other fear is to express anything other than the left is increasingly associated with being racist, sexist, and anti-democracy, when it's possible the very things the left is standing for mean the end of Western civilization entirely (and by that measure, the end of democracy). And all the shame/guilt I may feel don't support the destruction and crash of the civilization I come from. Should that civilization change? Yes. But sometimes how something is changing and what it's changing to is what matters most. I want a world where all human beings are safe, free and equal. The left says that's what they want too. So why, oh why, am I beginning not to believe them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    I don't know if I'm left or right anymore. I don't know what is *right* anymore. I've been starting to search for humanists and what their political stances are and why. My side isn't globalist, it's humanist and I feel like there is so little nuance these days. I've been coming to doubt the left because it's becoming increasingly radical. I no longer know if I can trust the liberal media at all. The agendas are 100x larger than the news. Who cares about the news, the facts or the truth as long as it supports a certain narrative or agenda, right? Just siding with the left or the right because both are becoming more radical seems like a process of radicalization and I've already been somewhat affected. My head is spinning. I need to figure out whose side is whose, what side is what, and why. And the other fear is to express anything other than the left is increasingly associated with being racist, sexist, and anti-democracy, when it's possible the very things the left is standing for mean the end of Western civilization entirely (and by that measure, the end of democracy). And all the shame/guilt I may feel don't support the destruction and crash of the civilization I come from. Should that civilization change? Yes. But sometimes how something is changing and what it's changing to is what matters most. I want a world where all human beings are safe, free and equal. The left says that's what they want too. So why, oh why, am I beginning not to believe them?
    Congrats, you're just beginning to wake up from the propaganda from the media. I find the best way to look at politics is to ignore the semantic us vs. them thought control (left vs. right) and just side with the issues you like and reject the issues you don't like.

    You may very well end up being majority left, right or even center, but that is irrelevant as long as your views coincide with your true values and not what the team you are supposedly on is expected to have.

    Then you will progress towards having views that align with who you are and you will develop the critical thinking needed to reject propaganda from any side of the fence. It is only when you feel obliged to pick a side's overall values that you fall into the trap as both sides have values that are harmful to society and individuals in different ways.

    Another important trait to have is to respect people regardless of the side they choose, there is no need to be tangled in the us vs. them mentality, which achieves little to nothing and distracts you from the true culprits behind society's problems.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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    To align with the "pure" right or the left is intellectual suicide. Both have very dogmatic factions. Pseudoscientific Free market dogmatism and Marxist dogmatism. Which poison do you want to take? Align with truth concerning the issues at hand. Choose the best course of action to solve the problems we currently face, not to promote a particular ideology that isn't open to change, evolution, new knowledge. You must be well learned to navigate the intellectual substrates of political factions.

    I tend to align with the left more often than the right because the right is very radicalized in America. As a concerned scientist, no one on the right seems to understand the philosophy of science and have a false equivalency, where belief is weighed equally against facts against reality. There is a problem with tribal epistemology in the world at the moment.
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...l-epistemology

    The left has many anti-science stances as well with its anti-vaxers, anti-gmo, and environmental alarmism that seems to rather stoke fear and create panic than solve problems in a reasonable manner. It is often self-defeatist. It's not that science has all the answers. It's that its opponents do not.

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    I'm a leftist and pretty strongly against the "social justice movement." I would've voted for almost any right-wing candidate over Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election but fortunately I wasn't forced to. I don't like these kinds of cultural revolutionary movements where people try to throw out all the old stuff people have made. I do support moderately left-wing economic policies. A country needs to support its citizens to make them more competitive globally. I noticed most right-wing people tend to come from Fuckville, USA and competing with other countries isn't even a concern for them because they only see their neighbors once a week. I don't support: Marxism/"to each according to their need" (if everyone gets paid the same no matter how much they work, they will get lazy, I've seen this myself,) government handouts (for the same reason, though I think the government can have job creation programs and such,) Tumblr SJWs (for being anti-culture and anti-individualism and trying to throw everything out,) "globalist" policies since they seem to just mean supporting trash giant corporations and giving foreign aid which are both huge wastes of money. Cultural globalization and global trade are just human nature though because everyone wants to wear a kimono and drink Irish whiskey and stuff like that. I also think we need to cut government spending which is one thing I agree with with people on the right. We can raise our spending again but now it's horribly inefficient. Legalizing drugs is probably also a good idea but it needs to be done really matter-of-factly so it doesn't turn into a giant heroin injectionfest, and some sort of mandatory military service and civil service type thing to get people more publicly involved so people can't stay in Fuckville, USA or be bums.

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    the main difference is between liberals (individualists, aristocrats) and communists (collectivists, democrats)

    the opposing of republic and democracy is lol

    at least I see there democracy and communism in the same group. for USA propaganda it's a greate achivement

  22. #62
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    I am pro virtue and anti mammon. American centrist (read: national suicide) politics don't affect me ha ha ha
    CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM

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    I think I'm just going to switch to the Green Party for now. I don't know if they are bought out (yet). Maybe everyone is bought out. The Democrats and Republicans make me sick however and I don't see the point in voting for either party on anything.

    Really all political parties have to do is find people who are actually for individual humans and their quality of life but who don't realize their political involvement is undermining the very things they support; and/or find people who are for whatever big money agenda they are in with and who are good at saying the right things so the people think they are actually for individual humans and their quality of life.

    And one thing I don't understand is the idea that Trump is somehow outside of the "establishment" and legitimately wanted to "drain the swamp." It seems to me that Trump is in place to create further divides and chaos, to spread fear. I don't really understand how he is accomplishing anything good.

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    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ns-the-future/

    Why can't there be globalism and nationalism? Nations that prefer nationalism can stay nationalist. Nations that like globalism can remain global together. Why must everyone do the same thing? If the world is safe, it will end up going more global eventually anyway. Why force the hand?

    Is the war in the Middle East globalism vs. nationalism???

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    I broke through the edge a long time ago. Corruptions is just as much as part of this as anything always has been always will be, might as well buckle up and enjoy the ride. Enjoy the quality of life but dont mistake the thin veneer, its always been thin. Think for yourself trace the conceptual lines to their origins. Start from your earliest memories and move forward from there. You are always watching a quarter of a second behind the act.

    Get what you can and experience as much as possible dont worry about the quotient affairs of man, stay concerned for your chunk and participate as much as you need to for you cause the game is unfolding exactly as it needs to.

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    Well I guess the left and the right are in some ways, just a new kind of neo-tribalism. I'm sure if you're a rightist or a leftist, you go along with some policies of the "tribe", even if you don't agree with them or care about them.

    Our tendencies toward tribalism can't be changed, but the circle of the tribe can be expanded.

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    ENFp>ENFj>INFp>INFj>ESFp>ESFj>ISFp>ISFj>ESTp>INTp> ENTp>ISTp>ENTj>ISTj>INTj>ESTj

    You will still find “statists”/“big-government believers” and “libertarians”/“classical liberals” on both sides. And of course there are plenty of exceptions, so I’m probably wrong. In addition, there are plenty of people who change their political allegiance or identity at some point in their life (often around the first Saturn return).

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    I'm mostly liberal and I voted for Clinton, so sue me.
    7w6 9w1 2w3 sx/? RLUAI(rl|U|ai)

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    Governance requires an adaptive, reflexive philosophy to meet the needs of the people. Once the rubber hits the road, it doesn't make sense to say "no" to a solution just because it falls into a category of "left" or "right." Circumstances change, and sometimes one ideology provides answers to the problems highlighted by opposing ideologies.

    But political tests score me as left.

    These responses make sense to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
    To align with the "pure" right or the left is intellectual suicide. Both have very dogmatic factions. Pseudoscientific Free market dogmatism and Marxist dogmatism. Which poison do you want to take? Align with truth concerning the issues at hand. Choose the best course of action to solve the problems we currently face, not to promote a particular ideology that isn't open to change, evolution, new knowledge. You must be well learned to navigate the intellectual substrates of political factions.

    I tend to align with the left more often than the right because the right is very radicalized in America. As a concerned scientist, no one on the right seems to understand the philosophy of science and have a false equivalency, where belief is weighed equally against facts against reality. There is a problem with tribal epistemology in the world at the moment.
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...l-epistemology

    The left has many anti-science stances as well with its anti-vaxers, anti-gmo, and environmental alarmism that seems to rather stoke fear and create panic than solve problems in a reasonable manner. It is often self-defeatist. It's not that science has all the answers. It's that its opponents do not.
    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Most certainly a leftist, although I find a lot of leftist people too harsh. But I would love universal healthcare, basically free college (at least community college), etc etc and I don't mind paying for it. I think I've read articles about how this sort of stuff actually saves society money as a whole, because when people don't get preventative health or education they end up in more strenuous situations. And I think it's irresponsible to not have a social safety net when the US is extremely economically productive and jobs lost to automation are not coming back. If only a small subset of skills are marketable and those skills generate enormous wealth then the wealth should be shared to some degree.

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    I've recently had been leaning on the extreme right but naturally I'm Libertarian right.

    I don't like taxes but I hate globalism too. My sister calls me fascist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PussyInASarcophagus View Post
    I've recently had been leaning on the extreme right but naturally I'm Libertarian right.

    I don't like taxes but I hate globalism too. My sister calls me fascist.
    That's NPC talk right there. She go to a prestigious college recently? I mean, I was lucky. When I went the disease was noticeable yet not quite powerful enough to prevent me from openly disagreeing with my professors and getting an "A" grade because damn was I good at arguing my point. So good even they admitted it.

    I doubt I'd survive a semester without access to trip mines nowadays sadly. Because after all, if you think Stalin did anything wrong you must be a Nazi and we all know what must happen to even the most reasonable and downright enjoyable to be around of Nazis...

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    That's NPC talk right there. She go to a prestigious college recently? I mean, I was lucky. When I went the disease was noticeable yet not quite powerful enough to prevent me from openly disagreeing with my professors and getting an "A" grade because damn was I good at arguing my point. So good even they admitted it.
    LMAO. Not really prestigious but she is an arts major and boy, thank God I switched majors from that since they usually do thw brainwashing from early on set. I never gave in though since I had bad experiences with art folks anyway so I forever resented their ideology, regardless of how logically sound or morally fueled it was. I'm curious though, when did you start? It seems like leftist indoctrination started to see its first signs of life since the early 1960s.

    I doubt I'd survive a semester without access to trip mines nowadays sadly. Because after all, if you think Stalin did anything wrong you must be a Nazi and we all know what must happen to even the most reasonable and downright enjoyable to be around of Nazis...
    Trip mines? And yes, not only that but academia seems to be more concerned about portraying communism ☭ in a positive light.

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    @PussyInASarcophagus I graduated in the early oughts. 2005-6ish I think, from the territory of Greater Appalachia. That nation. I am born, of, and from it, and I am very proud that it shows pretty obviously in retrospect . Sadly, I've been seeing a lot of "marks of Cain" around town. That is, California and New York Licence plates bolted to the cars in everyday traffic. They flee from the hell that is their place of origin only to replicate it wherever they settle. Eh, at least the pizza and Mexican food will improve a bit around here for a time...

    The fact that the arts are thoroughly infested with commies is no surprise. They know far better than anyone else that politics is downwind from culture. If the culture is left wing, the politics of the average peasant will be left wing in all due time. And yes while the the 60's is a good focal point, I'd actually direct you to the 50's. You'd have never seen the 60's without the 50's to drive the liberals to action. See, I've convinced myself that we're dealing with a rather "malicious" game balance mechanic. If you don't know what r/K selection is I'd look it up but the thing that really jumped out at me about it was that K drives r and r drives K. Meaning neither side can ever truly "win" the game. Either the cycle continues or the species subjected to it goes extinct. All K and no r means nobody interacts with anybody else outside direct family relations. All r and no K and... mouse utopia experiments. Either way, ya species be dead son.

    Potential silver lining: the r-selected are totally oblivious to the mechanic I mentioned yet I will bet you money that the average Conservative has heard of r/K. Meaning that if they do manage to take over they'll actually try to balance for it. Meaning this really may well be the last "violent" cycle. Gotta go full Liberty Prime on ideological Commies but once you get rid of them? Well, now we can all finally sit down and talk it all out like good and rational folk because that'll be all that's left of our species. We'll have finally rid ourselves of the violent assholes that always seem to end up in positions of absolute authority!

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    Right and Left are meaningless labels nowadays and should be abandoned by anyone wishing to make real political change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolus View Post
    Right and Left are meaningless labels nowadays and should be abandoned by anyone wishing to make real political change.
    This. Like I mentioned in my earlier post in this thread, I have a mixture of left wing and right wing views so I hesitate to label myself as left wing or right wing for that reason. I can easily find myself agreeing or disagreeing with a leftist or rightist depending on the issue. I would also not label myself as a centrist as that can mean many things.

    On political tests, I tend to score left leaning libertarian, which isn't captured by the two dimensional left-right paradigm, but rather the four dimensional left-right-up-down paradigm incorporating libertarianism and authoritarianism as two important dynamics to measure one's political perspective.

    Also, I agree that abandoning political ideologies in regards to merely agreeing and disagreeing with issues based on your morals and values regardless of where that puts you on the political scale of left or right is the best way to approach politics objectively IMO.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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    In reality, I'm on the right.
    According to the chart, I'm on the left.
    Conclusion: the chart is inaccurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    According to this chart, I'd be waaaay left- as it makes the right wingers out to be a bunch of white trash heterosexual control freaks that want to conserve nothing more than a rotting corpse.

    It is idealizing the left, the chart- but in reality, America's left has been so very sad and pathetic. And always ends up alienating the very people who could maybe save it to be something substantial and actually helpful.

    Like most average people, I have moderate values. I do 'lean left' though I guess, but creepy Marxist commie control freaks bother me so idk. The left should be about compassion and equal opportunity for people not weird thought police stuff. It's image got tainted with that too much. I would think a liberal would like to you know, actually liberate people- not keep them stuck in some weird academia prison as they send mind control waves to their brain.

    But a breeder in a MAGA hat hating queers, women and brown people? Eh fuck that shit too.

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    I hate environments where you are forced to do things without any room for freedom of thought and the right for the individual to say no. We live in a world where corporations rule your lives and everything you are made to do is for the good of the Consumer and the Corporation. I am told I ought to be grateful and thankful for being allowed to make a living. The government isn't as much of an eradicator of individual rights in the U.S. as much as the corporation is.

    It is okay to do things for the survival of the group, but it is oppressive to serve the hive.

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    Far right, but looking at this chart...

    My focus is society (left)
    I support workers (left)
    I support fair trade (left)
    I don't give a shit about personal or economic freedom (neither)
    I like right's treatment of society & culture, family, adults (right, right, right)
    I don't give a shit about equality of opportunity or playing fields (neither)
    I don't give a shit about freedom or equality (neither
    Organized religion (right)
    Rights of both individuals and the people as a whole that override (both and neither)
    punitive justice not rehabilitative (right)
    homless can either be lazy or fucked over (both)
    "all for one and one for all" applying strictly to just the nation (1/2 left)
    immigration control (right)
    "I would rather be ashes than dust"

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked."

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    The most important thing is the need for criticism and alternatives. Democracy dies when there's no longer any criticisms or alternatives. So would science. From criticisms, alternatives are born, and from alternatives, criticisms are accepted.

    So why is democracy "good"? Is it only because it's a given that it's naturally good? Is it because the majority is always right? Because it protects individual rights?

    Well it's really because it has the possibility and the potential for unlimited growth and progress, which comes from offering criticisms and alternatives. However it's not necessarily certain and stable, and it could always turn into authoritarianism or something other. It's actually kind of miraculous that this is continuing for hundreds of years, as that has never happened in the history of humankind. And it might just not be a matter of luck or coincidence, but it's because there have been some ingenious systems and institutions put into place to make it a stable, functioning system. Basically, it's stable because there have been people that have been working at it to made it stable.

    You can't say that "This is the only way, and nothing else", and that goes for both the right and the left and somewhere in between. At some point, you realize that you're heading to the wrong path and you're going to have to change the direction.

    Some might say that politics is the art of making compromises. They say A, and you say B, and you listen to both points and arrive at compromise C.
    Last edited by Singu; 01-27-2019 at 12:42 PM.

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