pose a challenge? in what way?Originally Posted by Kim
pose a challenge? in what way?
Activity > identity > Mirror
SLE... Had ambivalent impressions from non-romantic interaction with three of them.
Things are safe when they see you as worthy in an aristocratic kind of way. So, just before they reconsider my pedigree, I step away in silence...
Keeping that balance is exhausting.
Balzac
I am not an IEE, but I think I see what draws them to those types and what challenge they pose– it is the Fi HA, and the fact how both ILI and SLI are very protective of their hearts.
This makes them appear aloof and inaccessible. They yearn to love someone (Fi HA), but because Fi is not in the area of their natural strengths, they tend to be very conscious of who they give their heart to.
IEE and SEE can sense that, and feel attracted to that kind of behaviour. They are faced with the allure of bringing those types out of their emotional shell.
I've found this dynamic tends to apply to Fi Seeking types too, and to a lesser extent Fe seeking and Fe HA as well.
Ethical types can romanticize the aspect of a seemingly "emotionally guarded/crippled" Logical type being "emotionally awakened" by them.
Totally relate as another Ni lead with Ni subtype.
Mirage just doesn't do it for us romantically.
Are you sure you are not actually talking about your Conflictor?Ha, it totally sounds like that.
Perhaps you are actually a mistyped Delta, or you have mistyped your Conflictors as your Dual in the past.
What you said reminds me a lot of how I feel about my Conflictor father, and of a tongue-in-cheek saying of a Socionist on how IEIs who grew up with their Conflictor will become great philosophers later on.
I don't see how a Dual can give you so much emotional pain, unless he is a deeply unhealthy and disturbed individual, in which case it is a matter of the individual and not all Duals.
Someone I can take care of, snuggle with and hold tightly.
Oh, so does SLE make you feel more insecure or inferior due to them being Aristocrats?
I believe my own mom is an SLE so I can say this, the focus on social standing is quite exhausting and in my eyes pointless. Yes, I know I'm your son and I shouldn't be so uppity or blunt with my opinions, but I must remind you yet again that I don't give a flying fuck about social hierarchy and/or traditional norms and no amount of bible thumping and rules lawyering is going to change that! Then we insult each other, then we cool off, then we both say we're sorry about what we said/did and things settle back down into friendly relations until one of us presses the other's buttons again for reasons we're both probably unaware of and think shouldn't be an issue. The issue also shows up at her work, she almost never complains to her bosses even though she has a good laundry list of legitimate complaints regarding her co-workers (who are all quite lazy according to her and thus force her to pick up their slack). I keep telling her to file these complaints and to stop enabling them, but she just won't do it. Probably because "it's not her place" in her mind subconsciously and she fears losing her job due to office politics if she does what I suggest.
Thus, in response to this thread, I don't want my semi-dual. I love my mom, but being married to that? Nope, no way, please no we'd traumatize the children and probably make em' schizophrenic. I'll take an activity, mirror, identical, or kindred, not necessarily in that order. Though naturally I would prefer the dual, you can't always get what you want in life and must make do with what you have.
Chocolate cake replaces dials temporarily
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
She actually sounds like an LSE (likely Si subtype) to me and would be your Supervisee by that standard.
Te as leading function in LSE (ESTj; Shtirlitz) and LIE (ENTj; Jack London) by Dmitry Golihov
He lives by external rules or "charter" that he has thought up himself. He imposes his vision of the correct "order of things" in external situations and is conservative in this vision (his assessment of who should be doing what, etc.) (...) Once he has learned a certain rule, he will follow it throughout his life (2x2=4). (...) Living with such a person on his own territory can be done only in accordance to his rules, and sometimes he attempts to extend them to nearby territories, as expansion of borders is viewed as a useful activity from point of view that a person lives by this, meaning that by this expansion he will "exist" in even greater extent. (...) He does not like those who spend their time irrationally and unproductively.Although the Supervisor can seem self-satisfied, petty, faultfinding and narrative, the Supervisee pays attention to their actions and considers the Supervisor as consequential. The Supervisee normally wants to gain recognition and commendation from the Supervisor. However, it may seem like the Supervisor always undervalues the abilities of the Supervisee. (...) The Supervisor sees the Supervisee as quite interesting and capable, but incomplete and therefore in need of some help and advice. The Supervisee does not respond to this aid as expected and this will often increase the Supervisor's attempts to change the Supervisee. Because the Supervisee naturally does not understand what it is that the Supervisor wants from them, this may irritate the Supervisor, who thinks that the Supervisee simply does not want to understand.
If you have enough of them you won't need a dual
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That could be the case @SisOfNight, I am somewhat new to all this so my typing can't really be taken as reliable yet. I can see Fi being her influencing function, she always gets way nicer and more relaxed when I do something for her.
Fair enough. I wanted to steer your into the (possibly) right direction.
I also feel the need to "clear things up" in certain ways. I don't like my Duals (possibly) being incorrectly stereotyped.
I hear that people are subconsciously compelled to support and defend their duals from any bad stereotypes and potential assaults on how wonderful they really are by other peopleFair enough. I wanted to steer your into the (possibly) right direction.
I also feel the need to "clear things up" in certain ways. I don't like my Duals (possibly) being incorrectly stereotyped.
Yes, that could refer to my conflictor too I suppose. I grew up with a conflictor mother, and it has definitely made something of a philosopher out of me. But still not as painful as badly timed, short-lived duality.Are you sure you are not actually talking about your Conflictor?
Perhaps you are actually a mistyped Delta, or you have mistyped your Conflictors as your Dual in the past.
What you said reminds me a lot of how I feel about my Conflictor father, and of a tongue-in-cheek saying of a Socionist on how IEIs who grew up with their Conflictor will become great philosophers later on.
I don't see how a Dual can give you so much emotional pain, unless he is a deeply unhealthy and disturbed individual, in which case it is a matter of the individual and not all Duals.
FTR, I've been checking my impulses to tell people they are mistyped, bc I really don't like people saying that to me. Not saying you should do the same, but people are what they believe themselves to be, no?
No hard feelings though
good intertype discussion ITT
yea it's actually probably distinct groups, perhaps related to non-socionics factors? for example in particular, i think one ILE-Ti that i felt very interested in once had a positive, energetic, extraverted behavior in public, and he may have been 7w6 so/sp or so/sx. (but maybe i'm wrong and he was actually ILE-Ne?) i had a suspicion this public face wasn't the entire picture of how he could be. whereas i've noticed several SLE-Tis not putting themselves out there like that, you may not even immediately notice their SLE-ness in a group until you talk to them. i think all XLE-Ti subs have a reserved/distrustful side to them that may or may not be very apparent (it says this about both subtypes in their romantic behavior descriptions.)
ILE-Ti (Selector)
Are somewhat distrustful of feelings, they will only show their own slowly and with time. When they are confident in love are initiative taking, affectionate, and take care to satisfy their partner; always improving sexual techniques. They need a decisive, emotional and sexual partner, capable of quickly convincing them of their feelings and providing reciprocity. It is necessary to make use of constant emotional stimuli: joke, coquetry, jealousy.SLE-Ti (Organizer)
Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.
ENTj :-)
When you talk to those SLE-Ti's what is the SLE-ness you see that is not apparent until you talk to them?
I don't tolerate my conflictors enough to get as far as get deep emotional pain caused by them. I can imagine this issue with duality much easier because you will get much closer with the dual partner and so there is more chance for some real bad fuck up. Don't forget relationships transpire in the real world, where socionics is only one factor between so many other things going on in life.Are you sure you are not actually talking about your Conflictor?
Perhaps you are actually a mistyped Delta, or you have mistyped your Conflictors as your Dual in the past.
What you said reminds me a lot of how I feel about my Conflictor father, and of a tongue-in-cheek saying of a Socionist on how IEIs who grew up with their Conflictor will become great philosophers later on.
I don't see how a Dual can give you so much emotional pain, unless he is a deeply unhealthy and disturbed individual, in which case it is a matter of the individual and not all Duals.
That's way too general the way you put it, not specific to Fi.
Same I don't think I have been close enough to a conflctor to experience deep emotional pain. SLE had a way of hurting that stayed with me for a long time. Part of it was that it was not expected because things were going well and my guard was completely down.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
How does one tell the influencing function? Could really use that, would help me out a lot in typing and RL. As once you have that down you know what you must do to get something out of someone close to you...
Do you mean the Dual-Seeking function?
Whatever you want to call it. I wanna love someone, but dear lord in heaven have I read and seen so many instances of that coming back to bite a person in the ass in the worst way. Yet I cannot swear it off! How can you tell a person's irresistible vice? That one thing, that function, that they just cannot say "no" to no matter what others say and what personal experiences warn against? That'd be some powerful knowledge and I am an eternal seeker of such things...
I regularly get anxious wondering if I said too much, or too little in front of SLEs.
This wont happen with my dual who forgets and forgives everything each new sunrise.
? I don't think Fi PoLR cares much either?
I guess that proves it scientifically "all in my head"...
Anxiety has subjective value, so I still prefer activators in lack of duals.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I know it's not done with bad intentions, but out of pure enthusiasm and limerence : ) It's just sometimes frustrating to be on the receiving end of some sx 7's flighty interest. I don't fall in love often, and then get attached as fuck and almost die when it's over, so it's a bitter pill to swallow seeing the other person falling in love with many people almost simultaneously (I swear I've seen this poly behavior from many 7's ). Still think 7 would be the most perfect match for me in theory, but maybe better someone old and already exhausted from life : )I can see how it would, but I think the intensity while 7s are attached is the same as, say, for 4s or 6s, but the coping skills after a break-up are different (pain-avoidance coupled with constant search for new experiences). Since 7s hate dwelling on past negatives, they will necessarily move on quickly. But that doesn't mean that they weren't totally into you before.
As for the "want everyone to know" is really just related to being excitable, which I would consider another 7 trait...OMG OMG ALL THIS EXCITING NEW STUFF MUST TELL THE WOOOOORLLLLLDDDDD.
ILIs are attractive to IEEs for the same reason as SLIs are - they are aloof and pose a challenge.
Oh, it really seems like you will only be able to reach a sound commitment with an E7 once they feel like they have explored most options; and that is often around their 40s earliest, haha.
Otherwise, they'll just feel trapped. For an E7 to commit at a much younger age usually implies them having experienced many hardships regarding relationships; being disrespected, being cheated on, etc.
Also, I get the impression E7 is very prone to not being able to commit to someone if their Dual-seeking (or at least Mobilizing) function is not being tended to (well).
It's like in their unconscious minds, they feel like there is a better option out there if that part of themselves is not being fulfilled.
For instance, IEE E7 guys who were known for being noncommittal for decades suddenly settle down with an Si ego wife and live happily ever after.
Really depends on the person. In the best case scenario, I'd take semi-dual, mirage, or activation. After that, still best case, mirror, quasi, or benefactor/beneficiary. I love SEEs and ILEs but I'd get tired of arguing morality with either one of them. Still, SEE sensuality is sexy. And ILE intelligence is mega sexy (when they use it). I'd probably just love them both from afar.
someday the grapes will be wine
and someday you will be mine
EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx
Mirage? How come? You're a Rational type too, no? I find it really is just an illusionary relationship ending up in a rut over the long term.
Some ESEs are great in that they're hilarious, assertive, and genuinely not awkward. It's nice to be around someone who "gets it" and doesn't make scenes related to weak F-role/polr, but who is also energetic and fun to be around. I guess my only complaint is that sometimes the alpha agenda doesn't mesh with the delta one at all.
someday the grapes will be wine
and someday you will be mine
EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx
What was the longest time you've been close to an ESE?
My mother is one, so 27 years as of today.
someday the grapes will be wine
and someday you will be mine
EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx
How about romantic relationships?
I mean, I've crushed on a few, lmao. But I've had a few close ESE friends, to be serious. Love them to death. At a certain point, the disconnect between alpha goals and delta goals becomes apparent. They want to do everything slowly (and always seem to do it so effortlessly), I want to do everything in a hurry and well.
someday the grapes will be wine
and someday you will be mine
EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx
No idea
The only option in your mind is Duality?
Didn't know deltas liked rushing?
I've perceived Alphas to be much more active in vibe, opposed to Deltas who disliked rushing and preferred doing things more slow but efficient.
Well, this is just the general disposition of the Quadras, perhaps there are individual differences.
If not duality then illusionary.
Back from when I thought I could be EII:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post852803
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