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    Default George Soros



    Why is the original thread closed?
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...6-George-Soros

    I type him as LIE-Ni. I think George Soros, Charlie Munger, and Thomas Sowell are some of the brightest modern minds. Thoughts?

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    IEI
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Hm, do you have any video about his interview or something? I really don't know him.
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    IEI
    Well, of course a Nazi war criminal is in beta quadra.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    Well, of course a Nazi war criminal is in beta quadra.

    Wasn’t he like 9 years old when WW2 started?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon
    Wasn’t he like 9 years old when WW2 started?
    Skip to around 7:09. And later in the video Soros talks about how he doesn't feel guilt because "if I weren't there someone else would have" shipped off Jews to death camps and such, and compares this to how markets work. He doesn't feel guilt for his actions during the Holocaust just as he doesn't feel guilt for his actions as a capitalist. I think calling him a Nazi is totally appropriate, because that "if I weren't doing it then someone else would" is exactly the kind of mindset that enables Nazism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Skip to around 7:09. And later in the video Soros talks about how he doesn't feel guilt because "if I weren't there someone else would have" shipped off Jews to death camps and such.
    I watched it, he never said that he shipped Jews to death camps.

    Wasn’t he 9 years old when WW2 started?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon;[URL="tel:1545508"
    1545508[/URL]]I watched it, he never said that he shipped Jews to death camps.

    Wasn’t he 9 years old when WW2 started?
    I edited my post. Ok, correction, he only admitted to helping confiscate their property, before he contradicted himself and said he didn't. Yes, as a 14 year old he probably didn't actually arrest anyone.

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    Anyway, since this is a typing thread, I’ll offer my opinion on his type—I think he’s LIE.

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    He's LIE imho. There is a pattern that i've noticed about some Ultra-wealthy LIEs is that they came to the conclusion at a very young age that this world is ruled by the law of the jungle. A world in which you win or you die and it's a serious business. So there's that kind of perverted survival instinct developed from early childhood. Winning at all cost in the long run with a perfect sense of timing and ruthless sense of execution. Of course those people are exceptional but their position is equally exceptional. Stinginess is also a theme with those people. It's only when they are very old (if ever) that they begin to give money to charity and stuff like that. Soros rendered to the word "Magnate" all its letters of nobility (sarcasm alert !).

    In the video above 10:09 to 10:14 That's true, but is it a reason to behave like he does ? I don't think so. The thing is and that's controversial, society needs psychopaths and sociopaths it's a constant an imperative need from the dawn of civilisation. They are willing to do what is needed to be done without any other moral considerations. I would argue that most Heroes of ancient Times (and some of the present) were sociopaths. You don't win wars without them, you don't conquer without them and you might not survive without them. This world is ruled by the law of the jungle, but most of us live in places where the law of the land rules..

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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    This world is ruled by the law of the jungle, but most of us live in places where the law of the land rules..
    The law of the jungle is the law of the land. Safety is an illusion, and the sooner you realize that, the better off you are. It's not so much that people think God is their parents like Freud said but that people think their parents are God, then they think the leaders are God, but none of that is ever true and living has always had a 100% fatality rate. What sociopaths get wrong is there are things that matter more than your own hide. The mind is better than the body. People who think the world is so much better now than it used to be because of some ideal of inexorable progress are deluded. Francis Bacon's idea of progress was always that it involved effort. Give up that effort and the veil of progress is stripped away. Humans are once and always primal. But progress through effort is just as primal as absolute chaos is. Because the mind is always better than the body.

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    LIE, what else would it be?!

    Compare him to other famous LIEs

    (Te subtype)

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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    He's LIE imho. There is a pattern that i've noticed about some Ultra-wealthy LIEs is that they came to the conclusion at a very young age that this world is ruled by the law of the jungle. A world in which you win or you die and it's a serious business. So there's that kind of perverted survival instinct developed from early childhood. Winning at all cost in the long run with a perfect sense of timing and ruthless sense of execution. Of course those people are exceptional but their position is equally exceptional. Stinginess is also a theme with those people. It's only when they are very old (if ever) that they begin to give money to charity and stuff like that. Soros rendered to the word "Magnate" all its letters of nobility (sarcasm alert !).

    In the video above 10:09 to 10:14 That's true, but is it a reason to behave like he does ? I don't think so. The thing is and that's controversial, society needs psychopaths and sociopaths it's a constant an imperative need from the dawn of civilisation. They are willing to do what is needed to be done without any other moral considerations. I would argue that most Heroes of ancient Times (and some of the present) were sociopaths. You don't win wars without them, you don't conquer without them and you might not survive without them. This world is ruled by the law of the jungle, but most of us live in places where the law of the land rules..
    Good description.... only thing I'd add is I'd hardly see a person as a psychopath if they need a wife in a stable marriage, and LIEs often need one (preferably ESI eh?). Just an observation (not mine)

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Good description.... only thing I'd add is I'd hardly see a person as a psychopath if they need a wife in a stable marriage, and LIEs often need one (preferably ESI eh?). Just an observation (not mine)
    Thanks ! I have to say that obviously I wasn't saying that LIEs are psychopaths (far from it !) or even that Soros was one (it sounds like I was implying though !).It was a just a little digression.
    With that said, as you know a lot of dangerous psychopaths had a "normal" family life so you never know ahah !

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    George Soros is a reserved and quiet person. Dunno how he has an EJ temperament
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Thanks for the responses! He seems genuine in his attempt to assist society, such as funding for philanthropy and open society foundation. I think he rationalizes his actions in that specific markets and currencies are going to fail due to poor economic management; he may as well make a profit.

    Below is a video of George Soros sharing his theory of reflexivity, does it seem more Te/Ni or Se/Ti? He somewhat seems like an ESTp.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCaCrWzFPYY

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    He is EII, his mate Jim Rogers is IEE, and Buffet is SLI. Reptilians are all from Delta.

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    Just from what my mom told me and other conspiracy theorists, he sounds like some kind of villainous LIE.

    I didn’t read the other comments.

    am I right am I right

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    Alright, let's take his quotes and see what can be pulled out of them.

    “I'm only rich because I know when I'm wrong.”

    Farsighted

    “It's not whether you're right or wrong, but how much money you make when you're right and how much you lose when you're wrong.”

    Non-valued NI, valued Ne

    “It is much easier to put existing resources to better use, than to develop resources where they do not exist.”

    Weak valued Te, he relies on Ne

    “Misconceptions play a prominent role in my view of the world.”

    Valued Ne, perhaps in Ego

    “How good are markets in predicting real-world developments? Reading the record, it is striking how many calamities that I anticipated did not in fact materialise. Financial markets constantly anticipate events, both on the positive and on the negative side, which fail to materialise exactly because they have been anticipated. It is an old joke that the stock market has predicted seven of the last two recessions. Markets are often wrong.”

    Background Ni (or how is it called here, demonstrative, right?)

    “The fact that a thesis is flawed does not mean that we should not invest in it as long as other people believe in it and there is a large group of people left to be convinced. The point was made by John Maynard Keynes when he compared the stock market to a beauty contest where the winner is not the most beautiful contestant but the one whom the greatest number of people consider beautiful. Where I have something significant to add is in pointing out that it pays to look for the flaws; if we find them, we are ahead of the game because we can limit our losses when the market also discovers what we already know. It is when we are unaware of what could go wrong that we have to worry.”

    Again, demonstrative Ni, negative Ne

    “Scientific method seeks to understand things as they are, while alchemy seeks to bring about a desired state of affairs. To put it another way, the primary objective of science is truth, - that of alchemy, operational success.”

    Non-valued Ti, valued Te

    “I start from the position that every human endeavor is flawed: if we were to discard everything that is flawed there would be nothing left. We must therefore make the most of what we have; the alternative is to embrace death. The choice is a real one, because death can be embraced in a number of ways; the pursuit of perfection and eternity in all its manifestations is equivalent to choosing the idea of death over the idea of life. If we carry this line of argument to its logical conclusion, the meaning of life consists of the flaws in one's conceptions and what one does about them. Life can be seen as a fertile fallacy.”

    Here he fell into philosophical reflections and they coincided with the philosophy of the existentialism of Sartre, who was EII.

    “I developed a theory of salesmanship based on the principle that one must not on any account identify oneself with the merchandise one is selling. Selling is a game where you score when you make a sale. If you allow your ego to be involved, the customer can brush you off and you lose; but if you do not identify yourself with your work you will be able to redouble your efforts when you are rejected, and if you make a sale you come out the winner.”

    Se PoLR, or at least weak non-valued Se. He does not see or focus on the "next frame" where the item is already sold and he has received the money.

    “I commissioned two political experts to advise me about what I could do to oppose the re-election of President Bush.”

    Well, he does not like Beta and does trust experts. Which quadra could it be?

    “Markets are constantly in a state of uncertainty and flux and money is made by discounting the obvious and betting on the unexpected.”

    More Ne

    “My peculiarity is that I don't have a particular style of investing or, more exactly, I try to change my style to fit the conditions.”

    Yielding (Resource-protecting), but could be also irrationality.

    “My main concern is with the world order”

    Strong or valued Ni

    “The world order needs a major overhaul.”

    Same

    “At present, the developed countries condescend to the developing ones.”

    Static kind of ethics, that is, Fi

    “The main difference between me and other people who have amassed this kind of money is that I am primarily interested in ideas, and I don't have much personal use for money. But I hate to think what would have happened if I hadn't made money: My ideas would not have gotten much play.”

    Ne, Ne, more Ne

    “The prevailing wisdom is that markets are always right. I take the opposition position. I assume that markets are always wrong. Even if my assumption is occasionally wrong, I use it as a working hypothesis. It does not follow that one should always go against the prevailing trend. On the contrary, most of the time the trend prevails; only occasionally are the errors corrected. It is only on those occasions that one should go against the trend. This line of reasoning leads me to look for the flaw in every investment thesis. ... I am ahead of the curve. I watch out for telltale signs that a trend may be exhausted. Then I disengage from the herd and look for a different investment thesis. Or, if I think the trend has been carried to excess, I may probe going against it. Most of the time we are punished if we go against the trend. Only at an inflection point are we rewarded.”

    Again, Ne over Ni

    “Perhaps you were too idealistic.
    I admit it. But I don't believe I overestimate the importance of ideals. Only when people believe in something can they move the world. The trouble is that people simply don't believe in open society as a goal worth fighting for.”

    Ne, Fi, Se PoLR. Sounds a bit Alphian, actually.

    “How do you see your own Jewish identity?
    I am proud of being a Jew-although I must admit it took me practically a lifetime to get there. I have suffered from the low self-esteem that is the bane of the assimilationist Jew.
    This is a heavy load that I could shed only when I recognized my success.
    I identify being a Jew with being in a minority. I believe that there is such a thing as a Jewish genius; one need only look at the Jewish achievements in science, in economic life, or in the arts. These were the results of Jews' efforts to transcend their minority status, and to achieve something universal. Jews have learned to consider every question from many different viewpoints, even the most contradictory ones. Being in the minority, they are practically forced into critical thinking. If there is anything of this Jewish genius in me, it is simply the ability to think critically. To that extent, Jewishness is an essential element of my personality and, as I said, I am very proud of that.”

    Aristocracy

    “Everybody says that I have a lot of power. But what does that power consist of?... Can I influence governments? I am beginning to be able to..."

    Se PoLR

    “Although we cannot rid ourselves of misconceptions, we can correct them when we become aware of them.”

    Non-valued Ni

    “I'm not doing my philanthropic work, out of any kind of guilt, or any need to create good public relations. I'm doing it because I can afford to do it, and I believe in it.”

    Non-valued Fe (as ignorance of public approval), Self-Confidence group

    “But I don't like working. I do the absolute minimum that is necessary to reach a decision. There are many people who love working. They amass an inordinate amount of information, much more than is necessary to reach a conclusion. And they become attached to certain investments because they know them intimately. I am different. I concentrate on the essentials. When I have to, I work furiously because I am furious that I have to work. When I don't have to, I don't work.”

    Strong Ni, but valued Si. Note that this attitude towards work and getting out of the comfort zone is the opposite of the style of the typical LIE.

    “We are accustomed to think of events as a sequence of facts: one set of facts follows another in a never-ending chain. When a situation has thinking participants, the chain does not lead directly from fact to fact. It links a fact to the participants' thinking and then connects the participants' thinking to the next set of facts.”

    Ni through Fi

    “We need to maintain law and order. We need to maintain peace in the world. We need to protect the environment. We need to have some degree of social justice, equality of opportunity. The markets are not designed to take care of those needs. That's a political process. And the market fundamentalists have managed to reduce providing those public goods.”

    Peripheral way of thinking, more precisely, Delta

    “Yes. I never claimed credit for it. I was involved in the process. As coach, I said to him that this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, the risk-reward relationship is extremely favorable, and therefore we should play it on a larger scale than normal. And he took my advice.”

    Ne over Ni, again

    “In economics, contingent, time- and context-bound theories may yield more useful explanations and predictions than timeless and universal generalizations based on ungrounded assumptions.”

    Non-valued Ti

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Gabin View Post
    Alright, let's take his quotes and see what can be pulled out of them.

    “I'm only rich because I know when I'm wrong.”

    Farsighted

    “It's not whether you're right or wrong, but how much money you make when you're right and how much you lose when you're wrong.”

    Non-valued NI, valued Ne

    “It is much easier to put existing resources to better use, than to develop resources where they do not exist.”

    Weak valued Te, he relies on Ne

    “Misconceptions play a prominent role in my view of the world.”

    Valued Ne, perhaps in Ego

    “How good are markets in predicting real-world developments? Reading the record, it is striking how many calamities that I anticipated did not in fact materialise. Financial markets constantly anticipate events, both on the positive and on the negative side, which fail to materialise exactly because they have been anticipated. It is an old joke that the stock market has predicted seven of the last two recessions. Markets are often wrong.”

    Background Ni (or how is it called here, demonstrative, right?)

    “The fact that a thesis is flawed does not mean that we should not invest in it as long as other people believe in it and there is a large group of people left to be convinced. The point was made by John Maynard Keynes when he compared the stock market to a beauty contest where the winner is not the most beautiful contestant but the one whom the greatest number of people consider beautiful. Where I have something significant to add is in pointing out that it pays to look for the flaws; if we find them, we are ahead of the game because we can limit our losses when the market also discovers what we already know. It is when we are unaware of what could go wrong that we have to worry.”

    Again, demonstrative Ni, negative Ne

    “Scientific method seeks to understand things as they are, while alchemy seeks to bring about a desired state of affairs. To put it another way, the primary objective of science is truth, - that of alchemy, operational success.”

    Non-valued Ti, valued Te

    “I start from the position that every human endeavor is flawed: if we were to discard everything that is flawed there would be nothing left. We must therefore make the most of what we have; the alternative is to embrace death. The choice is a real one, because death can be embraced in a number of ways; the pursuit of perfection and eternity in all its manifestations is equivalent to choosing the idea of death over the idea of life. If we carry this line of argument to its logical conclusion, the meaning of life consists of the flaws in one's conceptions and what one does about them. Life can be seen as a fertile fallacy.”

    Here he fell into philosophical reflections and they coincided with the philosophy of the existentialism of Sartre, who was EII.

    “I developed a theory of salesmanship based on the principle that one must not on any account identify oneself with the merchandise one is selling. Selling is a game where you score when you make a sale. If you allow your ego to be involved, the customer can brush you off and you lose; but if you do not identify yourself with your work you will be able to redouble your efforts when you are rejected, and if you make a sale you come out the winner.”

    Se PoLR, or at least weak non-valued Se. He does not see or focus on the "next frame" where the item is already sold and he has received the money.

    “I commissioned two political experts to advise me about what I could do to oppose the re-election of President Bush.”

    Well, he does not like Beta and does trust experts. Which quadra could it be?

    “Markets are constantly in a state of uncertainty and flux and money is made by discounting the obvious and betting on the unexpected.”

    More Ne

    “My peculiarity is that I don't have a particular style of investing or, more exactly, I try to change my style to fit the conditions.”

    Yielding (Resource-protecting), but could be also irrationality.

    “My main concern is with the world order”

    Strong or valued Ni

    “The world order needs a major overhaul.”

    Same

    “At present, the developed countries condescend to the developing ones.”

    Static kind of ethics, that is, Fi

    “The main difference between me and other people who have amassed this kind of money is that I am primarily interested in ideas, and I don't have much personal use for money. But I hate to think what would have happened if I hadn't made money: My ideas would not have gotten much play.”

    Ne, Ne, more Ne

    “The prevailing wisdom is that markets are always right. I take the opposition position. I assume that markets are always wrong. Even if my assumption is occasionally wrong, I use it as a working hypothesis. It does not follow that one should always go against the prevailing trend. On the contrary, most of the time the trend prevails; only occasionally are the errors corrected. It is only on those occasions that one should go against the trend. This line of reasoning leads me to look for the flaw in every investment thesis. ... I am ahead of the curve. I watch out for telltale signs that a trend may be exhausted. Then I disengage from the herd and look for a different investment thesis. Or, if I think the trend has been carried to excess, I may probe going against it. Most of the time we are punished if we go against the trend. Only at an inflection point are we rewarded.”

    Again, Ne over Ni

    “Perhaps you were too idealistic.
    I admit it. But I don't believe I overestimate the importance of ideals. Only when people believe in something can they move the world. The trouble is that people simply don't believe in open society as a goal worth fighting for.”

    Ne, Fi, Se PoLR. Sounds a bit Alphian, actually.

    “How do you see your own Jewish identity?
    I am proud of being a Jew-although I must admit it took me practically a lifetime to get there. I have suffered from the low self-esteem that is the bane of the assimilationist Jew.
    This is a heavy load that I could shed only when I recognized my success.
    I identify being a Jew with being in a minority. I believe that there is such a thing as a Jewish genius; one need only look at the Jewish achievements in science, in economic life, or in the arts. These were the results of Jews' efforts to transcend their minority status, and to achieve something universal. Jews have learned to consider every question from many different viewpoints, even the most contradictory ones. Being in the minority, they are practically forced into critical thinking. If there is anything of this Jewish genius in me, it is simply the ability to think critically. To that extent, Jewishness is an essential element of my personality and, as I said, I am very proud of that.”

    Aristocracy

    “Everybody says that I have a lot of power. But what does that power consist of?... Can I influence governments? I am beginning to be able to..."

    Se PoLR

    “Although we cannot rid ourselves of misconceptions, we can correct them when we become aware of them.”

    Non-valued Ni

    “I'm not doing my philanthropic work, out of any kind of guilt, or any need to create good public relations. I'm doing it because I can afford to do it, and I believe in it.”

    Non-valued Fe (as ignorance of public approval), Self-Confidence group

    “But I don't like working. I do the absolute minimum that is necessary to reach a decision. There are many people who love working. They amass an inordinate amount of information, much more than is necessary to reach a conclusion. And they become attached to certain investments because they know them intimately. I am different. I concentrate on the essentials. When I have to, I work furiously because I am furious that I have to work. When I don't have to, I don't work.”

    Strong Ni, but valued Si. Note that this attitude towards work and getting out of the comfort zone is the opposite of the style of the typical LIE.

    “We are accustomed to think of events as a sequence of facts: one set of facts follows another in a never-ending chain. When a situation has thinking participants, the chain does not lead directly from fact to fact. It links a fact to the participants' thinking and then connects the participants' thinking to the next set of facts.”

    Ni through Fi

    “We need to maintain law and order. We need to maintain peace in the world. We need to protect the environment. We need to have some degree of social justice, equality of opportunity. The markets are not designed to take care of those needs. That's a political process. And the market fundamentalists have managed to reduce providing those public goods.”

    Peripheral way of thinking, more precisely, Delta

    “Yes. I never claimed credit for it. I was involved in the process. As coach, I said to him that this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, the risk-reward relationship is extremely favorable, and therefore we should play it on a larger scale than normal. And he took my advice.”

    Ne over Ni, again

    “In economics, contingent, time- and context-bound theories may yield more useful explanations and predictions than timeless and universal generalizations based on ungrounded assumptions.”

    Non-valued Ti
    Thanks for the post, great insight and analysis. To clarify, you identify him as an EII?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learning4Living2Day View Post
    Thanks for the post, great insight and analysis. To clarify, you identify him as an EII?
    Yes, but if you are thinking of reading his book, I wouldn't recommend it. There is little useful or interesting for another EII in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aster View Post
    Just from what my mom told me and other conspiracy theorists, he sounds like some kind of villainous LIE.

    I didn’t read the other comments.

    am I right am I right

    You make the mistake of thinking George Soros is a capitalist just because he's rich. No, he's a literal communazi who's rich. Not that I think unfettered capitalism is a good idea since then you're just worshipping the dollar, but George Soros would unironically like to be ****** and Stalin combined.

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    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aster View Post
    Just from what my mom told me and other conspiracy theorists, he sounds like some kind of villainous LIE.

    I didn’t read the other comments.

    am I right am I right

    Well before his IEI psychosis certain someone typed him as ESE due to his warm welcoming smile (... anyway I know my way out.. if only I could hold my laughter in).
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguine Miasma View Post
    Well before his IEI psychosis certain someone typed him as ESE due to his warm welcoming smile (... anyway I know my way out.. if only I could hold my laughter in).
    this is exactly how I have been thinking of it, as alive has some sort of psychosis with this whole IEI thing! But I can see what he’s getting at with it all. lol sorry alive
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    I don't think I ever typed Soros ESE
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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