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Thread: Fitness influencers vs "body positivity" and why both movements are trash

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    Default Fitness influencers vs "body positivity" and why both movements are trash

    It seems that in 2022 we live weird times. The messages regarding our bodies are quiet contradictory. On the one hand, we have trends like the so called "body positivity" movement, which encourages people to "embrace" their current physical appearance and state, regardless of how unhealthy, unattractive, or repulsive it seems from a universal standpoint (more on this below). And on the other, you have fitness influencers (both male and female), especially over social media such as Instagram, posting photos of their bodies in order to get "likes" and other forms of attention. Oftentimes these influencers use PEDs but won't tell the public, and may even outright deny that they use PEDs.

    Both trends represent an extreme and I'm gonna try to break down my thoughts on why both extremes are toxic. This is written for both men and women, as I feel both genders are affected negatively by these phenomena, though as a man my experience is more with the male side of body image, quite obviously. After breaking down the things that are, in my view, wrong with both trends, I'll try and offer some perspective for what I think might be a healthier approach to health, fitness, and body image. I write this from the pov of two genders because when it comes to the human body, gender is directly correlated to sex (perhaps culturally this is different, but that is another topic). I don't mean any disrespect to trans people who may not identify as male or female. Just a disclaimer.

    First of all, let's start with the influencers.

    There is plenty wrong with the way many people, espeically teens and twenty somethings, look up to these up to these influencers as representing an ideal. Like I said influencers often use PEDs, which in itself might be fine if they openly admitted to this. But usually they don't, and will often nevertheless share their workouts and/or diets to "inspire" or "motivate" their followers, who in turn don't understand that workouts and diets that work for steroid users often do not produce results for natural lifters or athletes because of the way in which PEDs affect your body.

    Another problem is that having an external ideal (such as Instagram models or bodybuilders) of one's body that one wants to live up to is usually unrealistic for reasons other than the one mentioned about PEDs/steroids. Different people have different body types, for example, bone placement and muscle impantation. A woman with naturally wider hips and a wider waist might not be able to live up to the ideal of wide hips and slim waist. Similarly, a man who has a large neck in proprtion to the bone structure of his shoulder width will have a hard time appearing as broad shouldered as a man who has a somewhat slimmer neck. Also, muscle implantations vary from person to another. For example, some people have long biceps, and some have short biceps, because the place where the muscle is implanted in the arm varies from where person to another.

    On the flip side of things, there is the "body positivity" movement. This movement seems to have started as a reaction to the fact many fashion models in commercials or fashion shows were very thin, usually unealthily so (though interestingly, there is a little known fact about models which is that they need to be thinner than the person wearing the clothes in order to appear the same: a camera has a "flattening" effect on the image, which means that the model needs to be thinner in reality than they appear on the image - that is of course assuming that thinness is a desireable trait in itself). I don't need to remind my readers how this pressure to appear thin creates many problems for people, especially eating disorders. There was pressure on fashion designers and advertisers to use "curvy" women (and the trend seems to be extending to male models currently) to represent brands and clothing, and while this in itself is healthy in my view, the body positivity movement has since then turned into an acceptance of obesity (an "acceptance" which often includes a rejection of physical exercise) regardless of the consequences on one's health. Further, people are encouraged to no longer work on their appearance, something which can very healthy, provided one has realistic expectations, doesn't overpressure themselves, and doesn't feel/isn't pressured to take PEDs. And this goes further than obesity, people are encouraged by this movement to not take care of their appearance, develop triats that are repulsive from a universal point of view then left to "otherise" those who don't understand why others feel repulsed by them physically. There are, in my view, universal traits of beauty, certain forms which should not be ignored if you want to appear physically attractive. Yes, the specific applications vary with culture and fashion, and different individuals have particularities when it comes to what they find attractive or repulsive. Nevertheless, a total ignorance of universal forms of beauty and how the human eye/mind connection relates to certain physical shapes for example (the heart initially being an imitation of female buttocks and still to this day evokes sensuality, and not just becuase it is used as a "love" symbol). While obviously people are free to do what they want and it isn't my intent to "police" the way others present themselves, looking repulsive and then blaming others for considering you as such "because our culture is stacked against me" is willfully stupid.

    On a personal note, I personally find curvy/thick women more attractive than thin ones. I've dated some pretty "thick" women and while I do find this attractive, I also realize there is a health concern to being obese. So the beauty criteria isn't the only one that needs to be considered.

    So with that being said, what would be a healthier attitude to have towards one's body? I think a healthy balance lies somewhere in between the two extremes, and I'm not dogmatic about where exactly the best balancing point is. I suppose it's best to work on oneself progressively towards having a desireable body all the while not pressuring oneself or shaming others (the journey should be fun!) I don't really have any structured philosphy when it comes to my body, but I would like to give some tips that worked for me, at least.

    - Learn what your body type is. If your goal is bodybuilding, learn about your proportions and about what type of physique is possible for you to develop. Don't just pick an Instagram or Youtube star and try to look exactly like them, because chances are you never will. You may even get as lean or jacked as they are but will still look different because your proprtions are different. Unfortunately, you often don't know what is possible until you actually try it so it may be a mix of trial and error in trying to find to balance between the ideal and the real when it comes to your body.

    -Consider your health. It's not just about looking good at any price, competition is usually toxic unless you are competing in a fitness contest (where it also seems unhealthy to me but at least the parameters, conditions, and expectations are clear so perhaps that allows people to know what they're getting into as opposed to clashing with another youtuber over ego reasons). I would say that health is more imprortant than winning competitions for most people, and it's totally possible to be healthy and look good.

    -Ignore the doomers. Some folks will try to insist that it's impossible to attain a good looking physique no matter what unless you take PEDs. Bullshit. Some sources, like nattyornot dot com (website) will consider that basically everyone is on PEDs. They also use doubtful statistics and make bullshit correlations between the numbers they use to "prove" their points. Just a heads up. This type of mentality is toxic though because it doscourages people from doing the work and better understanding their bodies in favor of a lazy "steroids" explanation to everything. You usually do not know if someone is on steroids in alot of cases, anyway, so it is usually pointless to speculate on. This also connects to people saying their genetics are bad, because that is another doomer/nihilist approach. Very few people have truly bad genetics and it's simply more likely you are doing something wrong with your workout/diet etc.

    As a challenge to yourself - and especially if you are doing bodybuilding or strength training - try and see how far you can go without PEDs. Try to reach what is called "the natural limit". I have never reached such a limit myself, far from it. Taking something like this and making it into a personal challenge can be a fun way to look at this problem. See how much muslce and/or strength you can build naturally.

    Don't use bodyweight to gauge your progress! Bodyweight fluctuates by several pounds for unrelated reasons, even throughout a single day. Better to have a more objective metric, such as measurements, strength on your basic compound lifts, or running capacity.

    That's all, and thanks for reading.


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    I assumed that body positivity was more like, if you have a bit of a belly or are not perfectly model-like, it's okay to be so. Not like "Obese is just fine".

    I completely agree with your post anyway.
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    I read all your well written points and to be honest from my perspective I can't see the real problem with any of it?

    In my 20s I was fit as hell. I weighed 190 lbs my entire life and could go for hours and hour and hours. As I started getting older, my metabolism slowed down and weight held onto my midsection and back flanks. No matter what I ate, or exercised.

    I'm a real ends justify the means type person, even if hypocritically I disagree with government coercion to take the vaccines.

    Whatever gets people moving is fine by me. I don't think you tubers, or instagramers, have as much influence as it seems. A soon a person gets on a bicycle, or in the gym, or in a pool, or running through the countryside, the truth comes out anyway as the so called rubber meets the road. Meaning all the youtube videos in the world is not going to change your amount of effort, or not. The proof is in the pudding, I guess.

    As far as PEDs in concerned, if you are using them pre-27 years old, ofc you are going to become massive, as long as the effort, training and diet are on point. Its the peak physicality. Personally, I never used them at that age, and was still physically the best I ever could get, but that's because my ego block is very comfortable with movement and it was a natural extension of "me". The trouble is that anything given for free, will warp the receiver into unsustinable expectations.

    But, as I got older, things started to wind down. I could "feel" the tiny micro twitches under my skin, signally the atrophy of certain muscles sections, most especially in my lower legs, calves, soles, and then moving upwards past my knee eventually. This occurred over the course of several years, starting at about the age 29. I was devastated, as my large legs was always a point of pride for me. No matter how much I did, in physical output, and diet, it was never enough to keep up.

    I would never tell a young person to use PEDs, mostly because 1, they are very expensive. 2, they literally do not need it as their body is flush with hormones to begin with. 3. there are several ancillary drugs that must be taken in conjunction, which effects the pocket book, and your health. 4. by messing with hormone feed back loops, they might be permentaly damaging their body. 5. they will not be pushing themselves as hard as they should, meaning the are cheating themselves the ability to grow mind muscle mental toughness. If you don't know how far you can go on your own, how will you ever know? 6. young people still are developing they brains and minds, even until late 20s, these PEDs definitely amplify existing mental issues. Young people might lack the inner tools to be able to handle them without social conflict.

    But, post 27-33 years old, its a totally different story. I find it less hypocritical of influencers, (hi hollywood actors), but more annoying than anything. I mean have some intregrity instead of being a cucked media whore (The Rock - flip flopping on Joe Rogan issue, right before Dwayne's appearance at the super bowl preshow).

    If you are all interested into jumping into the deep end of the ocean, get in touch with me. I know a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber
    In my 20s I was fit as hell. I weighed 190 lbs my entire life and could go for hours and hour and hours. As I started getting older, my metabolism slowed down and weight held onto my midsection and back flanks. No matter what I ate, or exercised.
    Hormones play a role for sure, because whenever I start competing my body automatically becomes leaner, whereas when I do sports in a more "leisurely" way, body composition gets worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Hormones play a role for sure, because whenever I start competing my body automatically becomes leaner, whereas when I do sports in a more "leisurely" way, body composition gets worse.
    Makes sense. It all depends on what is going on. I know you are a cyclist, so cardio-vascular health is a big bonus. (I also love cycling and own A Davinci Silver Stone and another racer whose brand I can't think of off hand.)

    I think I meant to say, for the same amount of effort and output as when I was younger, I was still putting on weight, or not loosing what was there. Further, my lean body mass was shifting. Its just the natural course of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Makes sense. It all depends on what is going on. I know you are a cyclist, so cardio-vascular health is a big bonus. (I also love cycling and own A Davinci Silver Stone and another racer whose brand I can't think of off hand.)

    I think I meant to say, for the same amount of effort and output as when I was younger, I was still putting on weight, or not loosing what was there. Further, my lean body mass was shifting. Its just the natural course of things.
    Ah yeah, with that I can agree, definitely
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    "grow mind muscle mental toughness"

    I think this is the most important aspect of physical exercise. the rest will come naturally, and this obsession with beauty is idiotic anyway.

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    Nothing to add, just wanted to say I agree 100% and it was well written.
    Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.

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    It seems to me that the problem is not so much in these movements themselves as in the ability of people to reverse the meaning of terms and concepts. Initially, body-positive was a movement that convinced people to expand the generally accepted beauty standards. But not in admiration of obesity. I used to be overweight, and it's not only ugly. Obesity greatly affects human health. Losing weight after gaining critical mass is very difficult, but it is necessary if you want to live. Weight loss supplements helped me, and it was a very long and difficult path, and I am immensely happy that I passed it.
    Last edited by Ditercuter; 04-17-2022 at 08:54 PM.

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    trying to improve ur body at the gym is usually too beta male anyway, real Chads have jaw dropping muscles naturally that make u do Tex Avery wildtakes while having a bit of a gut and bear body. Its better for ur body to walk around in the ghetto with the natural grooves in the pavement rather than having a mechanical over stiff body that the treadmill does. real men 'play sports naturally' and are fit naturally and don't need trainers or gyms because it's ultra feminized. There's nothing wrong with being feminine, but of course it's a reverse thing where the Illuminaughty just wants to make the feminine side of things the bullies and whip holders. They even have things like where if u show off too much they ring this SJW alarm thing to try and embarrass u to stop - gym membership doesn't want fit or healthy people, because a truly fit and healthy person wouldn't need to go to a gym unless to show off anyway - which is discouraged by a lot of gyms who have become SJW and PC.

    And aw, some people missed me when I was gone. <3 I've been trying to fix my bad internet issues ugh.

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    No way! I get angry when people claim that obesity can be justified by body positivity. Initially, this movement aimed to support those who could not change their bodies. They must accept themselves for who they are because problems with skin pigmentation, congenital features of the figure, lack of limbs, etc., are unchanged. I was fat for 10 years, which was the worst period of my life. One day I realized that I was not feeling well and started losing weight, recording any changes in weight using https://www.vont.com/product/smart-s...-weight-scale/. Don't justify your laziness with body positivity!
    Last edited by CarrollLargena; 07-21-2022 at 10:25 AM.

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    This body positivity thing bothers me.

    First it's because I've met obese women who complained all doctors offered to fix their health problem was to lose weight. Stuff like diabetes, back pain, joint pain... I can understand if there's nothing the person can do to lose weight, but when they sit in my face eating chips my blood gets running.
    So yeah, body positivity imo should be accepting what is in order to change what can be changed or live better with what cannot.

    The other thing about body positivity I struggle with is the idea that all bodies are beautiful, so to be body positive you have to, urk, think of your body as beautiful and go yell it around, shoving it down everyone's throat.
    For some reason, this way of thinking is dehumanizing to me, makes me feel stressed to the point I want to eat until I explode.
    It also feels more like seeking validation than building self-esteem with all the claiming and proudly showing of what you got publicaly. And it's also sort of making people stuck in what they look because if you show your pride in your fat body but lose weight, showing pride in your thin body can pass as grossophobia. Once you become an inspiration for thicker bodied people, you're kinda stuck with their expectations to stay where you are.
    There some known woman here who lost a lot of weight and people bitch and hate on her because since her life got better and she became happier, she had the indecency of losing weight as she stress-eats less.

    Since I understand body's structural differences easily, I find the PED fitness peeps not very problematic, and I tend to struggle with people who don't see it, mostly if my body is the goal they want to reach.
    I'm no public person and take no supplements of any kind, I just have kickass genetic, like walking, and am young.
    When people around me start to put my body shape on a pedestal, it actualy distress me very badly, so much I start to overeat in response to get away from their impossible standards and periodical lash out at me for having it "so easy".

    Body positivity's been really negative for me.

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    I personally need to be fit to feel comfortable in my own skin and be able to date more of the women that I like

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    t also feels more like seeking validation than building self-esteem
    When people around me start to put my body shape on a pedestal, it actualy distress me very badly, so much I start to overeat in response to get away from their impossible standards and periodical lash out at me for having it "so easy".
    so are u seeking validation bc u have no healthy self esteem? theres also eugenic incel bs going around about how some ppl's bodies are inferior and should be selected out. this goes into even deserving to be a part of society or to be treated well. its just 1 issue raised along that line. so ofc ppl will want to be accepted/validated regardless what they deal with

    and i dont understand, like im pretty sure a bunch of ppl got fat on purpose BECAUSE being fat was seen as a negative and they wanted to stop getting objectified, they wanted others to be offended by their bodies rather than attracted. like body positivity's point is supposed to be against being healthy. iits to be loved/accepted regardless of ur body. this doesnt need to mean that u shouldnt strive to be healthy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    so are u seeking validation bc u have no healthy self esteem? theres also eugenic incel bs going around about how some ppl's bodies are inferior and should be selected out. this goes into even deserving to be a part of society or to be treated well. its just 1 issue raised along that line. so ofc ppl will want to be accepted/validated regardless what they deal with

    and i dont understand, like im pretty sure a bunch of ppl got fat on purpose BECAUSE being fat was seen as a negative and they wanted to stop getting objectified, they wanted others to be offended by their bodies rather than attracted. like body positivity's point is supposed to be against being healthy. iits to be loved/accepted regardless of ur body. this doesnt need to mean that u shouldnt strive to be healthy.
    It's true my self-esteem ain't great.

    It's interesting points you've raised, I never really thought I could want to be seen as gross but I kind of do if I'm 100% honest. It's like I have the choice between obscene and gross, and gross gives me more peace.

    The thing about body positivity is that it's a nice idea, but it got corrupted at some places. Some understand the ideal, but when confronted too much with the bullshit it can be made into, it can end up more harmful.
    I was a few times the only thin person in a room full of obese women mocking thin people, saying they're gross, ruining their lives, and that they should just die so they'd be freed from all those impossible standards. I know they meant no harm, but they caused harm anyway.
    I've seen it being used for too much hate and justifications to have a good opinion at the moment.

    In a way I knew, but that post really made me see it as a reality, now I have more chances overcome this, so thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adage View Post
    I've seen it being used for too much hate and justifications to have a good opinion at the moment.
    i defienitely get that. i just think it matters to separate the bad from the good instead of revoking the concept as a whole which happens often as a way for some ppl to justify bullying unhealthy ppl again.
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    Some people just need the extra boost to look normal/not pathetic and do basic things like carrying their gfs for long periods
    Last edited by Averroes; 07-21-2022 at 11:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Averroes View Post
    Some people just need the extra boost to look normal/not pathetic and do basic things like carrying their gfs for long periods
    Carrying them back to the cave?

    As a Victim, I thought it was their job to carry me?

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    Not everyone has to be ripped. But overweight people really should be encouraged to lose weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Not everyone has to be ripped. But overweight people really should be encouraged to lose weight.
    Yes. Encourage me please.

    I jest, but your post gave me an idea, mainly find I deem encouraging and become self-suficient about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adage View Post
    Yes. Encourage me please.

    I jest, but your post gave me an idea, mainly find I deem encouraging and become self-suficient about it.
    Good luck, man. ^.^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Carrying them back to the cave?

    As a Victim, I thought it was their job to carry me?
    aggressor women like cartoonishly-aggressive Dothraki giga-chads that make them feel small and weak in my experience, at least for casual sex. An SEE that I talked to a long time ago accused me of not having a masculine bone in my body once

    they’re probably the most “visual” and demanding women
    Last edited by Averroes; 07-22-2022 at 05:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Averroes View Post
    aggressor women like cartoonishly-aggressive giga-chads that make them feel small and weak in my experience, at least for casual sex. An SEE that I talked to a long time ago accused me of not having a masculine bone in my body once

    they’re probably the most “visual” and demanding women
    maybe SEEs however an ESI said she doesnt care much about height but if he was under 4'11 he'd have to cope with her sense of humour bc she'd carry him in a back basket
    SEEs also seem to be sadomasochistic. they prolly want an ILI to talk down on them then do the deed and leave them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averroes View Post
    aggressor women like cartoonishly-aggressive Dothraki giga-chads that make them feel small and weak in my experience, at least for casual sex. An SEE that I talked to a long time ago accused me of not having a masculine bone in my body once

    they’re probably the most “visual” and demanding women
    @Averroes, I was joking with my "carry me" comment. In reality, I'm fairly aggressive (maybe too aggressive) in normal life. The thing I like about Aggressor women is that they are sure about what they like, and what they don't like, and that's about the extent of why I like Aggressors. I do like women who initiate, but they need to suggest, not demand. So, maybe 10% or 20% visible aggression.
    I don't like women who can be pushed around, and in my experience, ESIs are kind of like Immovable Objects if they have their principles violated, or you try to talk them into something that they don't want to do. This is probably precisely why I open doors but refrain from pushing someone through. That's the best approach with ESIs.

    I agree that SEEs are the most "visual" and demanding women. I've never dated one because we both want to be the only one on stage, but I would infer from what I've seen that you're right.

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