Se and aggression

[Creepy-pikachu]

Apart from associations with will power, “force of will” would be effectively tantamount in practice to labeling Se as ‘aggression’, ‘forcefulness’, etc. This isn’t a useful operational construct.

Yes it is. I will example myself so its easier to see:

Will Power: You and I both know I have very strong will power, except for some guilty pleasures. I have had strong will power ever since I can remember

Force of Will: Extremely inconsistant, would rather never enforce my will, except defensively. You are very similar in this regard, which makes trust easier for someone like me.

These are two very different self-concepts of a person.

[Beautiful sky]

Ashton is the same way; while he has strong will power, to accomplish, seek out and do the things he wants to do, like you he would rather not use his force of will on others and just let them do what they want, but gets upset, angry and short when it doesn't fit his desires.

[Absurd]

Yes it is. I will example myself so its easier to see:

Will Power: You and I both know I have very strong will power, except for some guilty pleasures. I have had strong will power ever since I can remember

Force of Will: Extremely inconsistant, would rather never enforce my will, except defensively. You are very similar in this regard, which makes trust easier for someone like me.

These are two very different self-concepts of a person.

It's the same thing and it's your subjective interpretation of one definition making it two distinct things. I have it as well, doesn't make me Se ego, besides your definition of force of will is just an interpretation of an existing one, which reads completely differently.

Try that with Bible, you're not going to be the first nor the last.

[Creepy-pikachu]

It's the same thing and it's your subjective interpretation of one definition making it two distinct things. I have it as well, doesn't make me Se ego, besides your definition of force of will is just an interpretation of an existing one, which reads completely differently.

Try that with Bible, you're not going to be the first nor the last.

If only the Tower of Babel was big enough to help me understand your jibberish.

[Absurd]

If only the Tower of Babel was big enough to help me understand your jibberish.

There is nothing to understand, it's the same thing unless you're dead and have none. The difference lies in utilising it, and you're damn right about the tower of babel, try debating on the ignore function...

[blackburry]

Like Charles Bukowski:

“I was sentimental about many things: a woman’s shoes under the bed; one hairpin left behind on the dresser; the way they said, “I’m going to pee..”’ hair ribbons; walking down the boulevard with them at 1:30 in the afternoon, just two people walking together; the long nights of drinking and smoking; talking; the arguments; thinking of suicide; eating together and feeling good; the jokes; the laughter out of nowhere; feeling miracles in the air; being in a parked car together; comparing past loves at 3am; being told you snore; hearing her snore; mothers, daughters, sons, cats, dogs; sometimes death and sometimes divorce; but always carrying on, always seeing it through; reading a newspaper alone in a sandwich joint and feeling nausea because she’s now married to a dentist with an I.Q. of 95; racetracks, parks, park picnics; even jails; her dull friends; your dull friends; your drinking, her dancing; your flirting, her flirting; her pills, your fucking on the side and her doing the same; sleeping together”

How is this describing Se?




@Perky Boobs. those tits ain't perky.. they're just ginorm.

[Absurd]

How is this describing Se?

It's some kind of soup with vegetables and meat bollocks so it has to be Se. I have no qualms with it even though I don't know what it reads, which is fine.

Anyhow, going off that quote, any one is Se ego, almost, I'm sure there are exceptions. Ahem.

[Azure Flame]

lol @siuntal, I think i wrote that on perc when I thought I was an MBTI ENTJ.

One thing for sure, Se senses the pressures of objects around it. For this reason I feel trapped when I'm indoors. For this reason my dream house has a lot of glass, if it has any walls at all. I like freedom and open space because I feel everthing around me, and in fact fight against this constant pressure by living in very small spaces and challenging myself. Almost a sort of overcompensation.

As far as aggression goes, I avoid eye contact because, using this picture as an example, I can sometimes have very intense eyesight for no particular reason, even when I'm not feeling any emotions in particular. I once got screamed at in the military for having a "bad attitude" because I looked at my superior officer this way from a sitting position. He walked up to me, I looked up at him through my eyebrows and asked, "Sir?"

As far as aggression goes, I can sense the pressures of objects around me at all times. Idunno if its related but I even view each personality as a shape of sorts, for example, I view most E5's I meet as stone statues of energy that if you push really hard they'll move slowly, and I view 2's as if they're the sun radiating energy and fun to be around. I've heard it described as "volitional pressure." I think @Gilly knows what I'm talking about, because he's described me as a hollow tree with thick walls, which I find fascinating.

Me personally, I describe Se as if I had a plastic bag inside of me. The strength of your Se is how quickly you can inflate that plastic bag with fire energy. This is why a lot of intuitives take yoga... to get in touch with their plastic bag, haha. I also wonder if Qi is the same concept.

Sometimes its fun to push peoples energy around because... its fun? Sometimes in a crowded cateferia (I fucking hate cafeterias. Everything is wet and slimy and you don't know what any of it is, shit is flying through the air... meanwhile I can feel all of this happeneing around me. Its a nightmare.) I'll sometimes place my cup in other people's spaces or use their napkins as a way of saying, "you are in my personal space" but also because generally being a douche is funny to me.

I think it also has to do with Fe and being able to outwardly project energy. The ENTp's i've met who are aggressive tend to be different, its as if you're being slapped from all directions but very slowly. It creeps me out.

Me personally, I don't view myself as too aggressive, unless I become "activated" so to speak, and this almost always results in other people ending up in tears or ragequitting. I've had to consciously decide not to do this anymore. This takes the form of me yelling trash talk over the microphone in counterstrike like, "Shampoo mah crawtch muthafuckaaa!" and when someone complains that I shot them in the head, I'll continue doing it over and over again until they cry. In the words of one frustrated gamer, "CHOOSE A DIFFERENT FUCKING WEAPON YOU... FUCKING... @Q)(%_)("

[Azure Flame]

@Ashton...

Here's a post from my own book, as I saw you quote a supposed SEE's book.

warning: kind michael bay-ish.

I trudged up the stairs with the doctor following close behind and the archangels leading the way. Behind the two of us, were the Atlas Mechs taking enormous strides skipping three steps at a time. The skyscraper had endless numbers of stories. After ascending several floors up, the drywall suddenly grew from an old bubbling tan to a charred crispy flaking grey. Then without warning came an abrupt hole torn straight through the stairwell on either side of us. Several feet in diameter, it managed to pass perfectly straight through the building and open up to the other side of the skyscraper. I could feel a warm breeze pass through the tunnel that was bore diagonally into the building.
The stairs creaked and moaned tremendously. Through the doctor's visor was a pair of worried eyes wide open and alert. He would always have his hand on something as we walked up the stairs making sure he wouldn’t be sucked into the trembling floor. Suddenly, there was a loud crack that sounded outside and the building shook violently. At that moment, I started to think that maybe the old stairs weren’t the problem. Everyone stopped dead in their tracks in the stairwell while the building around us struggled to remain upright.
The stuffy smell of intense heat crossed my senses. As I turned around to get down the stairs, the doctor grasped onto the hand rail with both hands and fired glances in all directions. “What was that?” He cried out terrified. “Get out of this building, lets get out of here!” I started motioning everyone to go back down the stairs. The doctor didn’t move. Torn between evacuation at the top of the building, and escaping what seemed to be an unstable structure. Kritis made the decision as he grabbed the doctor with his right free hand and the doctor started ran down the stairs ahead of us.

[Absurd]

As far as aggression goes, I avoid eye contact because, using this picture as an example, I can sometimes have very intense eyesight for no particular reason, even when I'm not feeling any emotions in particular.

You look like a baby seal in it.

[Leader]

...Here is a quick example of how se egos think when focused on se ( ill give brief examples of things I think when focusing on se, and since I'm a conqueror and go agaisnt the world and want to be the best as opposed to SEE "the diplomat, the one who wants to be the favorite).

Me: Hmpf, I'm the best. I can do anything. I don't care what nobody says.
Me: Fuck, I'm bored! Nothing to do!
Me: Oh shit!
Me: Damn!
Me: lmaorofloooooool!
Me:.......*completely focusing on the moment and sensations*

For See it would be similar except for the first thought,
SEE: Im the best! All eyes on me, all eyes on meeeeeeee! ;>

Many times when in se mode I don't think at all and just act. It's impulsive. Or shall I just say, my thoughts are lightning fast and in the moment, so it appears as if I'm being impulsive.

[Absurd]

Lightning fast and in the moment, makes sense. I'm curious though what are you when you're not in Se mode - LSI?

[ashlesha]

reading djs and leaders posts is funny.
leaders posts,between the two,are more relatable,but i think anybody can relate to thinking "I'm bored" to themselves and I'm not a douchebag who gets off on being rude to people. in any case i think a female esi and a male sle are going to describe their experience of "se" and "aggression" differently. I'm not really aggressive (maybe "spunky" like Gilly says but i don't think that's the same) and i think what's probably most "aggressive" about me is a tendency to not drop things and keep trying to ram through instead of go around that i would attribute more to ne polr and ij temperament than se per se (even though yeah i know ne polr and se creative are the same thing). maybe ill say more when I'm not on my phone, that's why this is so sloppy..

[blackburry]

nuh uh...

[Korpsy Knievel]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12..._for_fighting/

[Beautiful sky]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12..._for_fighting/

interesting.

[Creepy-pikachu]

The thumb article is just one of many reasonings. The hand is a tool, of which many uses are made from.

re: Se.

First, Se is an extraverted function, which means that the functional usage requires an extraverted gain from its usage. Extraversion itself is directly related to reward sensitivity. So, obviously, it is going to differ in its placement of an introvert, especially dependent on the scale of its intensity in the brain.

So the question is: What is "S" (sense perception) as a dominant function in extroversion? We know it is 1. immediate (extraverts react to, or repress, stimuli faster) 2. external 3. not a feeling, like sense impression and 4. has a relationship to dopamine responsiveness.

[FDG]

...Here is a quick example of how se egos think when focused on se ( ill give brief examples of things I think when focusing on se, and since I'm a conqueror and go agaisnt the world and want to be the best as opposed to SEE "the diplomat, the one who wants to be the favorite).

Me: Hmpf, I'm the best. I can do anything. I don't care what nobody says.
Me: Fuck, I'm bored! Nothing to do!
Me: Oh shit!
Me: Damn!
Me: lmaorofloooooool!
Me:.......*completely focusing on the moment and sensations*

For See it would be similar except for the first thought,
SEE: Im the best! All eyes on me, all eyes on meeeeeeee! ;>

Many times when in se mode I don't think at all and just act. It's impulsive. Or shall I just say, my thoughts are lightning fast and in the moment, so it appears as if I'm being impulsive.

You mean Se makes you retarded?

[Nowisthetime]

is not aggression but it's not unrelated to it either.

If you have you don't need aggression or will power. You get what you want anyway


When we have an element in our ego we like to be creative in that field, to achieve something. likes to manipulate sensations, emotions, and objects. It just happens to be that deals with the area where real world competition takes place. It's not competitive in itself, it's not agressive, it's just the ego attitude = I know what I'm doing, this is my language in combination with concrete reality.

Compare that with as "nice". It's not really nice, it just does what it's best at, focusing on impressions and comfort. And similarly: "If you have you don't need to be nice"

When we want something, it's usually external, an object. It could also be a sensation or feeling, but in those cases we don't really talk about will power.

Of course an ego will learn that he or she is a little better than others in dealing with concrete reality, and this can make him more confident or even agressive, but that's just a result of it.

In those cases when an person really is (emotionally) aggressive, you will notice it, they have the tools for making an impact. Anybody can be aggressive, but you notice it more with an ego.

You could also put it this way: doesn't need any motivation or goals in order to deal with the concrete world. It's already out there. But this is again just the same principle as for any ego element. You just do what you're best at, without thinking about it, and then other people come and stick labels to it.

[FDG]

is not aggression but it's not unrelated to it either.

If you have you don't need aggression or will power. You get what you want anyway

That's far from being true, unless Se types rationalize themselves "into it" ex-post, or do not consider more ambitious alternatives in "getting what you want". Does every Se sportsman become top of the world? Obviously not. Someone might then argue: since Se types are realistic, they would not even set themselves this kind of goal. Well, then we get back to an ex-post rationalization rather than getting what you really want.

[Nowisthetime]

That's far from being true, unless Se types rationalize themselves "into it" ex-post, or do not consider more ambitious alternatives in "getting what you want". Does every Se sportsman become top of the world? Obviously not. Someone might then argue: since Se types are realistic, they would not even set themselves this kind of goal. Well, then we get back to an ex-post rationalization rather than getting what you really want.

I meant this more as an aphorism to illustrate my point. I am aware that it is not always correct litterally speaking. Of course they don't always get what they want, but they are already tuned in on real objects as opposed to impressions, possibilities or feelings etc. That can be seen as a great advantage, they don't have to overcome themselves like other people have to in competitive situations. One can say the same thing about : they don't need to manipulate people, they already affect peoples feelings. When a person has ego confidence in a certain aspect of reality, they sort of transcend the concepts we normally use, like will power etc. At least that's one way to think of it.

[Ryan]

Also, the social competition (earn tons of money, have a succesful career, be famous, ect.) means little to me except if it coincidences with my individual goals.

??

I hardly see anything wrong with being a little ambitious.

[Pa3s]

I hardly see anything wrong with being a little ambitious.

That's nice. I was talking about my personal opinion in this matter.

[FDG]

I meant this more as an aphorism to illustrate my point. I am aware that it is not always correct litterally speaking. Of course they don't always get what they want, but they are already tuned in on real objects as opposed to impressions, possibilities or feelings etc. That can be seen as a great advantage, they don't have to overcome themselves like other people have to in competitive situations. One can say the same thing about : they don't need to manipulate people, they already affect peoples feelings. When a person has ego confidence in a certain aspect of reality, they sort of transcend the concepts we normally use, like will power etc. At least that's one way to think of it.

Right, that I definitely agree with.

[Creepy-pikachu]

Se is irrational. It is easy to forget.

[Ryan]

That's nice. I was talking about my personal opinion in this matter.

You would rather not have a successful career?

[Azure Flame]

@Nowisthetime

interesting you say "we don't need willpower."

I've been told I have a lot, but I don't really know what it means to have willpower.

Then again I read about ILE's and it says for function #3 Se: "ILE's can accutely feel their lack of willpower when performing a task they don't want to do."

I feel like that all the time when people tell me to do things I don't want to do. Does anyone else think this is type related? If you tell me to take out the trash when I don't want to, I suddenly feel very tired and exhausted. Then again that could be due to other factors I'm not used to. Anything my parents tell me to do makes me tired. "[DJ] Come here" *i get tired*.

[Pa3s]

You would rather not have a successful career?

Of course, a successful career is basically a good thing. I was just saying that career, income and fame are things many people compete for, since they are socially recognized as desirable goals. Because there is so much competition, it is difficult to "win" and that's why successful/rich/famous people have a higher social status and might be even envied or idolized by others. I'm not saying that it's "bad" to strive for these goals.

The "successful career" is a good example actually. Most of my professors (and let's say the rest of the society, too) would probably think that a successful career is an international one, with many awards, finished projects, publications ect. But maybe I define it in a different way than they do. Maybe I'd rather want to help my local people instead of doing only the most prestigious jobs. Or what if I had a wife with a very ambitious career, would I fail if I stayed at home and cared for the kids? To make a long story short: I do like to succeed with whatever I'm doing, but I care little about the social reputation.

[blackburry]

this is one thing that makes me super self-conscious about my personality.
I come off competent even when I'm not.
Even when I say I don't know what I'm talking about, people still rely on me to know what I'm talking about.
I always begrudgingly get stuck in a leadership role.

I wish I could be some cute, giggly, friendly person... I try. but I fail at it. I just feel like an awkward person in general and I come off as a bitch or aloof, when really
I notice everything just dunno how to react to it that would be appropriate or "normal", i feel like i'd come off as way too intense if I were to act normal, so
I try to reign it back....and then end up coming off as really shy or a stuckup bitch. or both. For some reason I hate prolonged eye contact for this reason.
I tend to dodge it if it's too much with strangers because I feel like when I do give it... I make the other person feel uncomfortable or something.

I really need to work on my Fe. I feel like I'm relatable and easygoing...however... there's this underlying tenseness with me that other people seem to pick up from my body language.

[Beautiful sky]

I think most ESI are uncomfortable talking about their personal selves; I don't know why that is, honestly; maybe they want to control how they are perceived.

[Korpsy Knievel]

[Beautiful sky]

Dark humor doesn't count K0rpsy;

[Beautiful sky]

My cousin is neurotic and idiotic; when I was infected with Hep A, she was calling my cousin, her sister, who at the time was living with me, telling her to be careful of me, of getting Hep A, when the doctor specifically told me that I fought the virus and was immune, as well as had no worry of infecting others. She's ESI type, over reacts to information which she does not comprehend properly and only emotionally gets in the mood of shuffling people or warning them; thank god her sister's ESE and directly told her "I can't get anything so don't over react and tell me what to do."

We're supposed to be "comparative" relations ESI and I, but the only thing we can compare each other with are the things which we have moral values towards; while she is a strict mother and has put all her kids through private schools (barely being able to financially do it and under the terms of stressing everyone else out through lying borrowing and cheating) she feels that doing so under those terms is morally right; while I wouldn't, if I had kids, put them in private schools just to look like a peach pie on the outside and a black heart on the inside. We are switched in moral values in many ways.

She just doesn't process facts and information very well.

She's way less humanist; critical of groups of humans; she feels it's ok to continue to keep her family strictly "Armenian" and do everything she can to keep her kids from integrating into an American lifestyle; she keeps the kids away from me because I don't feel that this is appropriate behavior; but, oh well; her family is all Gamma and they can do what they like; I just opt to be there for the kids whenever I can, emotionally and financially.

Get this, she won't let the kids stay over at my place, but when I offer to take them the whole day SHOPPING she's all up for it. Her ethics don't make sense to me.

I think she doesn't like me because I'm very close to her ESE sister and have a good and understanding relationship with her; they are the only siblings; her ESE sister has been disapproving of her marriage and because they can't get along very well, they've always had an uncomfortable wedge between them; I think this has effected my ESE cousin more than her.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Please try again in 29 seconds.

[InvisibleJim]

[Absurd]

Read Bukowski every one.

[Korpsy Knievel]

^

[Korpsy Knievel]

^

[Korpsy Knievel]

^

[ashlesha]

^

ahaha omg