I'm trying to give some encouragement here, but imagine I'm sucking ass at it. If roles were reversed, I'm sure you'd be doing a lot better. That's what looks desirable about F.Originally Posted by golden
I'm trying to give some encouragement here, but imagine I'm sucking ass at it. If roles were reversed, I'm sure you'd be doing a lot better. That's what looks desirable about F.
Well,suggestive wants the clarity.
suggestive really gets bumped up by emotional expression. It is quite easy to make LSI's laugh if you want it. Yes, it seems so - even for me.
suggestive needs the depth of purpose for pretty much anything. It is not so hard to make them go to trance like state. Speak with deep wisdom and they are hooked.
suggestive is also like like a kid in amusement park at first. "Wow! It could be like this" and I nod.
suggestive. Do something that makes things to progress. Improve efficiency. They pretty much jump around you out of gratitude.
Suggestive is like a little child with simple needs when things get initialized.
It really works just look for buttons and where you can press them.
Did socionics made me manipulative?
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
what is the other typing?
Okay, maybe as an F person, I’m pretty good at imparting the information that’s most relevant to the recipient because it’s based on feeling out their motivation to know. The number of motivations a person can have is finite. People are complex, but not as complex as we tell ourselves we are.
But I am not so good at manipulating information away from humanistic concerns, and I always strive to get better at it. A fair chunk of the time, I feel pretty dumb and have to be actively reminded I’m not.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
I suck ass at this and practically need an instruction booklet to figure out what to say to people, because in my mind, the possibilities go into infinity.
You're not dumb.But I am not so good at manipulating information away from humanistic concerns, and I always strive to get better at it. A fair chunk of the time, I feel pretty dumb and have to be actively reminded I’m not.
A useful resource along these lines is called The Human Givens. I’ve tried to recommend it to people many times and gotten no interest except from a neuroscientist.
https://www.amazon.com/Human-Givens-.../dp/1899398317
Thanks. I figured you’d think I was on a fishing expedition and say that. The thing that helps me most is to be in environments and situations where I actually can use my intellect, and then I find out it works just fine.You're not dumb.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Thanks!
@golden
Whenever I see your username, I think of the Golden Syrup Song:
Stick it on, Lick it off,
1 - 2 - 3!
Golden Syrup is for me!
-Bertrand seems very much focused on getting a reaction rather than conveying any kind of coherent thought process. He has openly admitted that a lot of what he writes is just BS. And he's not at all averse to being annoying and messing with people to this end. However he is not exactly "aggressive" or strong-willed either, in most cases.
-His very elaborate style of communication is a pretty typical for Beta NFs (though not universal) - he seems allergic to simplicity
I used to think he was EIE, but his video made him seem a lot more low-energy than you might guess from how much he writes. So I tend to think IEI now.
look my BS has to be coherent otherwise I wouldn't get the reaction, this isn't your 5 year old coloring this is jackson pollock at work
also I don't feel much like a positivist. saying im introverted defaults back to social stereotyping
This doesn't really follow. Sure, it has to have coherent elements, but BS that's incoherent on the whole tends to get plenty of reactions. Just look at Yahoo answers.
actually it follows if you want to not troll randomly and actually have a direction in mind, which I do. like I said im not just throwing shit at a wall. the method is imperceptible to many, which is why I try not to feel too insulted by being called a troll. its the same kind of shit dads see when they look at pollock. based on your hairline I don't blame you
Just because you intend to accomplish something doesn't mean you accomplish it effectively.
Few of the statements in your comments have a direct relation to each other. This tells me that you are uncomfortable with pure logic (this is reasoning that moves from causes to effects, like: if we assume that every trait is in proportion, women with big breasts are more likely to have big butts also).
So, say we were to assemble a random group of say 100 topless women, and below the waist their bodies were obscured by a shade, I think it would be fair to assume that if their bodies all followed a similar curve (due to the proportionality) that the ass circumference would be superior on the women whose breasts were most pleasant to the eyes.
https://socioniks.net/article/?id=115
Sensory comfort
S
Conformism
Business logic
P
Work, benefits, profits, money
one of my early mistakes was trying to "rehabilitate", I think, Te, because of conflicting perceptions on what it entailed... the thing I like about Gulenko is that he puts the whole thing in a way clearer framework.. in a lot of ways it preserves my underlying reality sense, but it just moves the labels around, but it does so in a way that makes those labels clear and consistent. so there's not this battle over what it means to be gamma or beta, etc. He's got it nailed down. I used to think Te wasn't "money" per se, because in classical socionics its not. but if you just accept that in G it is, it makes things so much easier. its no slight on the people, because the "gammas" whose honor you wanted to defend, are not gamma anymore if they don't value those things, they simply get shifted over into a different quadra, etc. in this way he's crafted a framework that is simple and elegant and doesn't have the same ideological confusions arising out of it that other models do
in law school I see this very clearly: how people perceive the legal profession. The Ti types see it more as justice as an ideal, and the Si Te types see it more as a job where you learn the rules not to change them but to profit by applying them when people come to consult you about them. they each develop their own understanding of the body of laws, but the Ti types want to mold the laws to improve the global needs of people, whereas the Te types want to use the laws primarily to benefit themselves and their families etc. in delta especially, this means not changing them, just pinning them down so they don't need to re-learn anything but can simply rely on their knowledge to produce reliable profits as people ask them "what if.." x or y etc. Ti types do the same thing, but their stake in it is more ideological, they're asking themselves if x what does that mean for everyone in time and how should be structure xy and z in order to produce an overall fair result on a global scale. you see this most obviously when they structure the rules governing financial institutions themselves. if you don't take a systemic approach to rules governing acquisition of wealth inevitably any profitable domain becomes susceptible to regulatory capture, where since the rule is man-against-man simply tweaking the rules for one's own (via kickbacks from corporations) benefit is fair game. thus you get the Trump version of the EPA and so forth (this is more Te Ni, not Si)
Last edited by Bertrand; 10-04-2018 at 11:42 PM.
Bertrand isn't an intentional troll, he's just an unintentional troll.
I think a lot of the "BS" that he writes is just him being deliberately obscure and convoluted so that he won't be criticized for his positions and be proven wrong by muddling issues.
So this whole thing basically stems from being a narcissist who can't admit that he's wrong, who thinks that he's a misunderstood genius, not that any of this stems from being a "type" or from any of the "functions". He just piles on lies on top of lies and BS on top of BS, which increasingly become even more convoluted and incoherent.
A lot of the stuff Bertrand writes just goes beyond his own intellectual capabilities. A stupid person talking about complex issues will sound muddled, incoherent and convoluted. He's a compensating narcissist. He will attempt to justify this by saying he doesn't value "Ti" or whatever, but he just doesn't value intelligence. Some may mistake his convoluted style of writing as being "deep" or "intellectual". But it's strictly anti-intellectual.
I do value Ti though... I also feel bad because I have an ILI instructor I like, but I wonder if she thinks I'm a narcissist because we often debate and miscommunicate. I think Fe polr types think everything is emotional manipulation when its like they are legit cognitive processes that shouldn't be discounted a priori
I think i might be SLI. The problem is i'm very good at rationalizing almost every perspective and to create groundworks for every socionics position in relation to the IE/IR. I 'play' certain types to see how they fit and discover modes of thinking that correspond with types. I must have RP'ed almost every type in the socion by now
Sorry for my late answer.
My take on this: It's the part of supplemental seeking in ourselves. We're all trying to improve the immature aspects of us.
If the weakness of a person is thinking we are trying to improve this aspect by interacting with people whose strength is thinking
and if the weakness of a person is value judgement... you already know the conclusion, I guess.
Understanding the motivations of other people. This is a weakness of myself.
It seems to me it's a missing part of me.
Last edited by WinnieW; 10-07-2018 at 01:58 AM.
This response helped me, because I had a college boyfriend I type LII and remained friends with. Apart from mutual immaturity, one of the things I struggled with was what I thought was his misconstrual of my intentions. I hadn’t thought of it quite the way you put it, and I don’t think he’d have been able to know that was a weakness of his at the time. It feels less personal and painful to examine it in the terms you used.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
For some reason I thought the username was inspired by Per Mertesacker at first, are you a football fan and arsenal fan in particularI think i might be SLI. The problem is i'm very good at rationalizing almost every perspective and to create groundworks for every socionics position in relation to the IE/IR. I 'play' certain types to see how they fit and discover modes of thinking that correspond with types. I must have RP'ed almost every type in the socion by now?
@golden.
I wasn't that skilled at reading the intentions of other people either, but I recognized the emotions other persons expressed quite well... but the intentions of other people was like a foreign language to me.
This is getting somewhere interesting. I think when you see LII jumping to conclusions about people you will realize that they are entering into dangerous territory. It is like their Ne is for getting ideas and not so much to take new perspectives (EII will fall into territory of taking way too many naive perspectives). Remaining objective when you are primarily subjective can be a challenge.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
*cuts my wrists, takes antidepressants, thinks about end of the world and questions meaning of life*
Sounds OK.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
This is really interesting, thank you for sharing this.@golden.
I wasn't that skilled at reading the intentions of other people either, but I recognized the emotions other persons expressed quite well... but the intentions of other people was like a foreign language to me.
I have observed with LII, they sometimes read too much into people's intentions. My father is LII, he usually has this habit of doing "you did this thing because you secretly have ulterior motives. I know it and you can't convince me otherwise." Then if I explain myself he doesn't listen. He does however, respond well to forceful emotions. I think he understands people's emotions if they're obvious enough. Otherwise he struggles with it. I didn't think this was something a lot of LIIs experienced...
That isn't typical LII behavior. Sounds more like ESI on the face of it, tbh.
I'm not too sure, I keep changing on my typing for him. He's too much of an enigma for me to pin down...
No, it's a videogame-inspired name.For some reason I thought the username was inspired by Per Mertesacker at first, are you a football fan and arsenal fan in particular
Typical or not, I did experience something like it with the LII mentioned above. I might not phrase it quite like pano did, because he didn’t speak so bluntly. But I could easily see from his face (where his eyes went) and words what he was thinking. Usually he thought I wanted something more from him than I did.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Maybe, but I can only speak for myself. I'm usually not judgemental about it.
I doubt that this is a typical LII behavoir. I can't speak for other LII, but I value
Ignoring new information, settle on a final conclusion – single-minded style – doesn't seem very typical LII to me.
On the other hand... there are emotional states in me which makes me very sensitive to emotions other people express – a negative aspect of being sensitive.
Last edited by WinnieW; 10-07-2018 at 12:01 PM.
That might be a weak point, at least at younger age for LII. Don't know for sure how close or far I'm to other people.
In my experience it's getting better... personal growth is the key.
Last edited by WinnieW; 10-07-2018 at 12:02 PM.
Sure, it's not impossible for an LII but it's ultimately stemming from Fi/Ni / a negative reaction to Fe, which of course would be more typical of other types.
Some good or bad behaviours might be just amplified by type, but caused by upbringing and the accumulated experiences in life.
Seeing the type of a person as the main cause for their behaviour might be to wrong perspective.
My dad isn't always like this either. He's typically chill and looks so harmless. But there are times when he can kind of view people as a threat even if we're not trying to be that way. Typically, if something offends him he tends to not say anything, just mulls it over. He's scared of conflict in a way, but what he does just makes things worse. I can usually see his reactions coming but it's a struggle for him to get along with my mom.
Uhh Idk, I don't know my dad well enough to chime in on here. He really is a very sweet man, and usually just a cinnamon roll of a person. I guess I just represented his worst moments.I doubt that this is a typical LII behavoir. I can't speak for other LII, but I value
That's not his typical style either, it's probably just poor representation on my part.Ignoring new information, settle on a final conclusion – single-minded style – doesn't seem very typical LII to me.
He's influenced by other people's emotions. His emotional reactions are subdued and I can pick up on it fairly well. My mother is an EII, it's funny because they see each other as cold and distant. My dad seems to want to be reassured by my mom, but she's totally not going to do that lol and it just seems to aggravate him more. They're an unhealthy couple. I would say my dad is a bit healthier than my mom.On the other hand... there are emotional states in me which makes me very sensitive to emotions other people express – a negative aspect of being sensitive.
I don't live with my dad, so I don't know him well, but he seems to fit the LII profile fairly well... But I'm not committed to that being his type or anything. He seems like a rational logical type, with poor Se, I guess that's why I have him as LII.
I completely agree with this! I've seen people say things like "I hate this one type" but imo, if they're being objective, they wouldn't say that. I can find positive qualities even in my conflictor. I have my mother as EII, but I don't think for a moment her abusive personality comes from her being an EII. She's just a terrible person, and she happens to be an EII. It doesn't really affect how I see other members of the type. If anything, it means that I should actively avoid using her behavior as a reference to type other people I may think are EIIs.
where is Bertrand's vid?
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...d/page44/#1748
Have fun. : 3
... is it creepy I remember the exact page/thread of this...
Not creepy at all.
I had my fingers slammed in a car door once. I remember exactly where they were at the time.
Thanks Lilith.
Bertrand I think IEI. I know you don't like enneagram but do you type as 4w5? or 9?
I can definitely see why you could type as LIE though, lots of Ni coming through.
Last edited by Guillaine; 10-08-2018 at 02:48 AM.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote