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Thread: The Ukraine Question

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    Low-key hoping that this is real.



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    There are versions that Kiev will have to withstand a heavier assault that includes lighter tanks for urban warfare. We'll see what happens tonight.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

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    Zelinsky mb SEE knows how to "capitalize" the moment by rallying for more support (4D Fe and former actor).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Considering how little support there is for this war domestically, internationally, and within their own army, I'd reckon that this won't be going on for very long. I do not think that there are realistic realities out there which would've put Russia at more of a disadvantage than now.

    Feel like making a bet, assuming no invading of NATO countries and nuclear war, this'll be over before April. I hope.
    This will hopefully end in what I perceive to be the path of least resistance. United States installed a puppet Anti-Russian government in Ukraine. Russia now counters by doing likewise by installing a Pro-Russian puppet government. This, for many reasons, makes everyone vaguely unhappy and mildly insulted but otherwise doesn't escalate beyond that. Y'know, Russia doesn't try to invade an actual NATO member state or the U.S./Some NATO state actually send a significant force that the Russians manage to wipe out with hardly a scratch.

    Arming up the Ukranians and acting like an open bar for heavy/advanced weapons like stinger missile launchers or mortars for their people is a win-win move however. Hell, this may be the ultimate PR move for us Americans. If ever there was a time to suggest that it is better to arm your entire populace and then some over not, well, this. You can be damned sure no Stalin, Funny Mustache Man, Shorty with an inferiority complex stemming from that, I could go on for days and days... Would ever pull the shit they did if they knew damn good and well that not only were there guns behind every blade of grass in the areas they were intending to colonize/annex/conquer, but that those guns/weapons were just as good as their own objectively?

    If you're a European perhaps now you understand why we have 120 guns per 100 people. Yeah, you simply don't invade/attempt to occupy/annex/colonialize/etc. that area of the world. We sought to ensure we'd never be anyone's colony ever again. Best way to do that? Arm the ever-living fuck out of your population. America. 4.25 percent of the World's population. Around 40 percent of the world's civilian owned firearms. There is a good reason why the stereotypical American is depicted as a dumbass Greater Appalachian with a hard on for rebellion. It's that nation's dream to arm everyone up with shit up to and including "recreational" nukes.

    Yeah, fuck around with that and find out. If the ancient emperors and great kings faced cultures and peoples who matched them in military capacity merely by existing shit like colonialism and slavery would never have become a thing. Sadly, they did because human nature is what it is and universal master crafted bow ownership does diddly dick against full plate, gunpowder cannons, and Maxim Guns. I would elaborate but that'll derail the thread.

    Suffice it to say if you hate Putin and Tyranny in general you ought ​to oppose any and all forms of Gun Control. Give your fellow man the gift of freedom. Force your government to allow you to own guns. All the guns you can afford in fact. If you got a 3d Printer and a CNC Lathe all the better and if both dear God you are now an arsenal of democracy! Steel barrels and high-grade plastic receivers make functional firearms that, while not the best money can buy, are damnably cheap and will function well enough if only put through a few serious engagements.

    And that's just as things stand now. Give that field of tech a few years. Soon the quality of a bootleg S&W pirate gun and the "official" manufactured version will be so small as to make the distinction meaningless in an objective sense.

    Hope the PTB don't just hit the big red button and flash-fry all electronics however. I'm currently operating on the assumption they won't send us all collectively back to the 1800's as that also borks their intel networks. Their predecessors were smart but we are currently suffering under the boot of mad idiots. Let us pray and hope they continue to fuck up so badly it hurts from my perspective.
    Last edited by End; 02-26-2022 at 07:13 AM.

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    hm.. I do not notice my previouse message posted here. political censorship to hide the truth?

    I may repeat it:

    USA-hithlerists occupation soldiers intentionally place artillery (or other machines) near living houses (hundreds of people may live in a single such house). so RF has lesser wish to attack it or do not attack, to avoid death of many civilians and civil objects destuction. It's terrorism and practically civil population is used as hostages. They do so even in Kiev.

    an example of what they do:




    Other common terroristic actions of USA-hithlerists occupants, which happen several years (!) in Donetsk and Lugansk regions is intentional fire against civilians - wide artillery fire on towns territories, not against dot military objects, and also did random fire on civil territories, against civil objects.
    The similar episode was in 2015 when USA-hithlerists occupants made artillery wide fire on Mariupol with 2 tasks: 1) terror against locals (which were not glad to accept USA-hithlerists overturn in 2014), 2) to make false accusation against opponents.
    In now time Mariupol is close to be attacked. And... USA-hithlerists occupants do not allow civilians to go away from it, practically holding them as hostages to reduce possible artillery fire.
    Last edited by Sol; 02-27-2022 at 12:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    hm.. I do not notice my previouse message posted here. political censorship to hide the truth?

    I may repeat it:

    USA-hithlerists occupation soldiers intentionally place artillery near living houses (hundreds of people may live in a single such house). so RF has lesser wish to attack it or do not attack, to avoid death of many civilians and civil objects destuction. It's terrorism and practically civil population is used as hostages. They do so even in Kiev.

    Other common terroristic actions of USA-hithlerists occupants, which happen several years (!) in Donetsk and Lugansk regions is intentional fire against civilians - wide artillery fire on towns territories, not against dot military objects, and also did random fire on civil territories, against civil objects.
    OK LSI

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    The pornhub bann is making sol very frustrating ;(

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    Is Sol Putin's alter ego?
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    Happy New Year!

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Can someone translate, even just a tl;dr
    Why are you saying happy new year
    I have no knowledge of Slavic languages but

    The anthem of the USSR was turned on on the Maidan in Kiev
    Sol wants to live in USSR Gulag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Why are you saying happy new year
    Among noticable events of this year is removing by RF from territory of UkSSR illegal pro-USA regime (got control by military overturn in 2014), which was inaceptably harmful for people of RF and UkSSR. Territories of RF and UKSSR were parts of one state for several centuries until 1991 and were parts of one union in 10-13 centuries. USSR was last name for state common for both.
    Photo has USSR flag on RF machine moving on UKSSR territory. Video has USSR hymn played in center of Kiev. Both were made in this Februrary.
    Last edited by Sol; 02-26-2022 at 04:31 PM.

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    https://www.economist.com/europe/202...dvance-on-kyiv

    * Russian progress has been slower than planned, as the Ukrainians have offered stronger resistance than expected. British intelligence believes that the Russian military did not achieve its day 1 objectives.

    * However, Russian military doctrine calls for the slow escalation of force; heavy weapons are still being held in reserve. Another possibility is that the slow deployment is due to logistical and supply problems.

    * Russian operatives may have infiltrated Ukrainian police and security forces, and they could be activated at any time.

    * Ukrainian defenders are massing in cities, which are much harder to take.

    * Ukraine claims that the Russians have suffered thousands of casualties, but that number is probably closer to 450 according to British estimates.

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    I wonder if anyone knows at this point how much manpower and equipment the russians have committed so far and how much they can commit over a week, a month, etc. Obviously Russia is a big country with many possible fronts, but I'd expect that most of the military is concentrated west of Moscow because that's where the population and strategic concerns are at.

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    Translation of a Ukrainian officer's analysis of the situation, source here:
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...346220038.html


    I'm not familiar with the exact source, but it seems to check out. If anyone knows more about this please let me know down in the comments! Here it is:


    1/7 Intel from a Ukrainian officer about a meeting in Putin’s lair in Urals. Oligarchs convened there so no one would flee. Putin is furious, he thought that the whole war would be easy and everything would be done in 1-4 days.


    2/7 Russians didn’t have a tactical plan. The war costs about $20 bln/day. There are rockets for 3-4 days at most, they use them sparingly. They lack weapons, the Tula and 2 Rotenberg plants can’t physically fulfill the orders for weapons. Rifles and ammo are the most they can do.


    3/7 The next Russian weapons can be produced in 3-4 months – if even that. They have no raw materials. What was previously supplied mainly from Slovenia, Finland and Germany is now cut off.


    4/7 If Ukraine manages to hold the Russians off for 10 days, then the Russians will have to enter negotiations. Because they have no money, weapons, or resources. Nevertheless, they are indifferent about the sanctions.


    5/7 Alpha Spec Ops have been near Kyiv since the 18th February. The goal was to take Kyiv and instal a puppet regime. They are preparing provocations against innocent civilians – women and children – to sow panic. This is their trump card.


    6/7 Russia’s whole plan relies on panic – that the civilians and armed forces surrender and Zelensky flees. They expect Kharkiv to surrender first so the other cities would follow suit to avoid bloodshed. The Russians are in shock of the fierce resistance they have encountered.


    7/7 The Ukrainians must avoid panic! The missile strikes are for intimidation, the Russians fire them at random to “accidentally” hit residential buildings to make the attack look larger than it really is. Ukraine must stay strong and we must provide assistance! #StandWithUkraine


    8/7 Spread this information so the world would realise how important it is to assist Ukraine right now and without hesitation! It is difficult for Russia, but it is difficult for Ukraine as well if the West does not provide meaningul support!
    Last edited by Baqer; 02-26-2022 at 07:58 PM. Reason: link didn't work

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Translation of a Ukrainian officer's analysis of the situation, source here:
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/14...
    link doesn't work
    my ideas about socionics:

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    The link works, but it seems the post has been deleted.


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  20. #220
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    If you're in Canada and donate to the Red Cross Ukraine Humanitarian Appeal, the federal government will match your donation. EDIT: https://donate.redcross.ca/page/1002...1?locale=en-CA
    Last edited by xerx; 02-26-2022 at 08:22 PM.

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    Both influential and ordinary Russians are voicing their dissent:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-arrests-putin

    On Thursday, Ivan Urgant, the host of a popular talk show on state-run Channel One, posted a black square on Instagram with the caption “Fear and pain. No to war.” His show has not gone on air since. Channel One has claimed it is just a scheduling issue, although several reports in Russian media say that they have been blacklisted.
    Even the family members of some of Russia’s richest businessmen have gone public in their opposition to war. The daughter of Roman Abramovich posted an Instagram picture that read “Putin wants a war with Ukraine,” crossing out the word Russia. “The biggest and most successful lie of Kremlin’s propaganda is that most Russian stand with Putin.”
    They were not the largest protests that Moscow has ever seen. But they were remarkable as a show of defiance despite threats that the government would crack down harder than usual.

    ...

    That scene repeated itself dozens of times, as protesters mostly waited their turn for police to arrest them. As the protesters were pushed off the square, they began to march down the broad pavement of Tverskaya Street, chanting “No to war.”
    Muratov released dual editions of his newspaper in both Russian and Ukrainian this week and has said that his newspaper would defy the Russian media watchdog’s rules that they only report official government information about the war, trusting reporting only from their own newsroom.

    He believes the war is an unpopular one for most Russians.

    “The memory of the [second world] war, and that people have relatives in Ukraine, and that Ukraine is a dear country to us, it holds back even the most rabid supporters of the current leadership,” said Muratov. “There is no enthusiasm for this.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    The link works, but it seems the post has been deleted.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...346220038.html

    this one works for me
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    That one works for me as well.

    The author of the thread is an Estonian EU deputee, a quick google search on him (Riho Terras) finds the thread in question on his Twitter. He claims he got the information from a Ukranian officer according to the post, and I would assume the info to be legit, unless the source of the info (the Ukranian officer) is actually a Russian leak. I am not saying it is, though, but with the Kremlin's massive disinformation campaign it's good to be prudent.

    That said, the info looks legit because it seems to line up with the way the events are shaping out and the way Russian forces are behaving (ie bombing buildings in a rather unsystematic fashion which can only be an attempt to intimadate and demoralize the Ukranian population). Since everything the Kremlin publishes is basically a lie, when information seems to be true, it's probably not from the Kremlin.


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    Keeping in mind that sweeping statements about public opinion are difficult to verify, the war is deeply unpopular in Russia according to this article: https://www.economist.com/europe/202...not-enthusiasm

    The protests lacked political leadership and organisation, and were not big enough to prompt the authorities to reconsider the war. But they expressed the dominant feeling among Russia’s educated class. “Pain, fury and shame–these are three words that define our attitude to what is going on,” a statement from the dwindling band of independent media outlets read. While on the surface life in Moscow carried on as normal, underneath for many there was a sense that something had changed. On the streets, people stopped to check their social media and watch video streams. In cafés, young people sat in stunned silence, shocked that their country had unleashed war on a neighbour.

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    Roasted invading forces (click at your own discretion).

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1497550733259857921


    Apparently, captured Russian crying. Too much for him.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1497550592478433281
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

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    Assuming that Ukraine survives as a coherent entity, this war has already laid down the permanent foundation of Ukrainian nationalism. The Siege of Kyiv will become their Star Spangled Banner, which was based on the real, British siege of Fort McHenry. Zelenskyy, who refused to surrender or leave the capital, is going to be remembered like Winston Churchill.

    If Ukraine was ever an "artificial" nation, it isn't anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    So where is the best place to donate money from the US? I just don't want to get scammed or go through a sketchy organization who will take a sizeable portion. I saw some links on Ukraine's Twitter but got confused.
    https://ukraine.ua/news/support-the-...es-of-ukraine/

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    That link is dead, yo.
    Site web server just went down. This is also a good source.
    https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/nats...potrebi-armiyi

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    Elon Musk activating Starlink over Ukraine


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    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1497702921521311746

    Unconfirmed and only coming from one source, but once mutinies are confirmed Russia is completely and utterly fucked.

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    Edited. Will create a new thread.
    “I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Putin is seething and malding over how united Ukrainians are in their support for Zelensky

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    Possible outcomes to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine:

    - Putin splits Ukraine into “Western Ukraine” and “Eastern Ukraine”. Putin takes control of Eastern Ukraine while Zelensky/current government in Kyiv controls “Western Ukraine”. Almost nobody besides Russia recognizes these new borders. Fighting continues.

    - Putin forces Zelensky to sign an agreement granting Putin much of what he wants (Ukraine promises to never join NATO, Ukraine hands over Crimea and/or Donbas region, Zelensky resigns as President, etc.). Putin threatens maximum civilian casualties and destruction if Zelensky doesn’t go along with this.

    - If Zelensky doesn’t go along with the above, Putin carries out his threats. Ukraine is left in total ruins.

    - Putin takes control of a large portion of Ukraine (including Kyiv). He removes Zelensky and forcibly implements a pro-Kremlin government with Russian military occupying much of the country.

    - Pressures from economic sanctions and growing Russian opposition to the invasion cause Putin to decide that war is too costly. He withdraws his military forces from Ukraine.

    Any other ways this could (realistically) end? Which outcomes are most likely?

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    NATO menaced to put nukes in Ukraine that would obliterate Russia in 4 minutes without possibility of retaliation, this means Russia cannot surrender in this war, even if it turns out to be a meat grinder (which seems to be the case).

    Do you want to avoid suffering and deaths? Don't support Ukraine. The faster Russia occupies the less death and pain is generated. Russians cannot "lose" this war, they'll throw everything they have to throw if they have to.

    Do you want to avoid a world war? Don't sanction Russia until driving it into the diplomatic situation of best korea. Making Putin have nothing to lose is not a good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    NATO menaced to put nukes in Ukraine that would obliterate Russia in 4 minutes without possibility of retaliation, this means Russia cannot surrender in this war, even if it turns out to be a meat grinder (which seems to be the case).

    Do you want to avoid suffering and deaths? Don't support Ukraine. The faster Russia occupies the less death and pain is generated. Russians cannot "lose" this war, they'll throw everything they have to throw if they have to.

    Do you want to avoid a world war? Don't sanction Russia until driving it into the diplomatic situation of best korea. Making Putin have nothing to lose is not a good idea.
    Putin already has nothing to lose. This isn't something that can change and the point of no return has been reached because what you describe will happen anyways.

    But if Putin gains control of Ukraine, he will have a foothold in Europe and it will allow him to further enroach and infiltrate the EU. And do you really think he will stop at the Ukraine?

    But if Ukraine holds back the Russian forces for long, it's likely that the Russians will have to back off at some point (though the fighting will probably not completely stop), especially with their missile strikes since it should be obvious that the amounts of missiles they have is limited by the fact they are striking in a rather calculated fashion.

    And while this is the pragmatic side of things, I also disagree with your rationale since it is coming from a place of fear, no offense - we need to stop fearing bullies like Putin, and the consequences that standing up to them could have. Helping Ukraine is the just thing to do (in my view, but not just in my view) and also the right message to send to other bullies like Xi Jinping.


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    After USA-hithlerists in 2014 illegally have taken power on okraina by military overturn there has started resistance to them and civil war.
    The war was suppressed and should be ended by Minsk ageements which USA-hithlerist occupants has accepted to do. 8 years USA-hithlerists did not do agreements as should and only reduced war actions, terroristically killed thousands of civil people by artillery fire and other ways, destroyed civil structures and made strong harm to population of ex-UkSSR.
    Recently USA-hithlerists has rejected Minsk ageements completely and made a threat by nuclear weapon. Then RF to protect own interests and of people living on Russian okraina/borderland (territory of UkSSR) started to solve the problem by military way.
    There exist political demands to USA-hithlerists and if they'll accept them or achieved by other ways - there will be no need in military actions.

    If someone want to help people living in UkSSR there ways:
    1) To help RF to suppress USA-hithlerist occupants by military support and such to help achieve wanted political situation.
    2) To influence on USA-hithlerist occupants and their supportes so they'd accepted political demands which are now achieving by military actions.
    3) Do other help so were achieved political conditions of RF.

    Other ways lead to result which is worse than existing military activity for people of RF, UkSSR and world as whole. The aim of RF is to prevent those results, where military actions would be lesser harm.

    Some info to undersand better who is other side against RF army.
    Last edited by Sol; 02-27-2022 at 10:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    Putin already has nothing to lose. This isn't something that can change and the point of no return has been reached because what you describe will happen anyways.

    But if Putin gains control of Ukraine, he will have a foothold in Europe and it will allow him to further enroach and infiltrate the EU. And do you really think he will stop at the Ukraine?

    But if Ukraine holds back the Russian forces for long, it's likely that the Russians will have to back off at some point (though the fighting will probably not completely stop), especially with their missile strikes since it should be obvious that the amounts of missiles they have is limited by the fact they are striking in a rather calculated fashion.

    And while this is the pragmatic side of things, I also disagree with your rationale since it is coming from a place of fear, no offense - we need to stop fearing bullies like Putin, and the consequences that standing up to them could have. Helping Ukraine is the just thing to do (in my view, but not just in my view) and also the right message to send to other bullies like Xi Jinping.
    >Putin already has nothing to lose. This isn't something that can change and the point of no return has been reached because what you describe will happen anyways.

    That's my point.

    But even worse; Putin cannot allow this war to go awry for him and will not capitulate.

    If you have followed the buildup to the invasion you'll know Russia's main expressed concern was about nuclear weaponry being deployed near the border, and the danger of nuclear obliteration without the possibility of retaliation. You could say that NATO is only a defensive alliance, but the truth is Ukrainian paramilitaries and the popular republics were violating the Minsk agreements almost daily, shooting at each other, with no clear initiator of hostilities. A skirmish gone wrong if Ukraine was part of NATO could end up in Russia "going extinct" in less than an hour.

    During the first part of the "negotiations" Russia asked for Ukraine to not join NATO, and the US refused. The US menaced with "implied" retaliation, and started spreading false information to their allies in order to drive up tensions, which I think prevented Russia from reaching a better understanding with the west in the first half of the buildup.
    During the second part, which I would say starts after the bluff of the american invasion alarm, when European leaders started joining the negotiation table... I could talk about how I think the whole war could be avoided with a little effort from boths sides, but first I think the US wanted to provoke the war for Petrodollar reasons and second it would take too much text and is irrelevant to my point.

    If Putin capitulates, he has to accept nuclear weapons at the border + Sanctions that are already going to get Russia down to the state of best korea or Cuba if not lifted, such conditions are pretty much unacceptable, this is not like Vietnam or Afganistan where the US had no inmediate threat to the integrity of their country. So, not going to happen, and the more you support Ukraine, the more suffering is prolonged and expanded.

    >But if Putin gains control of Ukraine, he will have a foothold in Europe and it will allow him to further enroach and infiltrate the EU. And do you really think he will stop at the Ukraine?

    I never considered Ukraine as a barrier for Russian influence, instead, I consider the trade relationship between the EU and Russia as the barrier to a russian agressive expansion of influence. Now, this trade relationship is broken. Putin would have stopped at Ukraine, at most he would have integrated Belarus through diplomatic means, if he had anything preventing an agressive foreign policy.
    Right now, he does not only lack incentives to behave with friendlyness, he has every incentive to start a major global conflict. The more difficult the ukrainian conflict gets, the faster the catastrophe clock ticks.

    >But if Ukraine holds back the Russian forces for long, it's likely that the Russians will have to back off at some point (though the fighting will probably not completely stop), especially with their missile strikes since it should be obvious that the amounts of missiles they have is limited by the fact they are striking in a rather calculated fashion.

    I personally think that if Russia was to lose this war, or end in a stalemate, Putin would push the red button, in fact he might even preentively strike special strategic locations of NATO in Europe, in any case that would probably mean nuclear war. Anyways I think what might happen instead is a peace treaty between Ukraine and Russia in one or two weeks because the war is not beneficial to Russia nor it is for Ukraine.

    >And while this is the pragmatic side of things, I also disagree with your rationale since it is coming from a place of fear, no offense

    Calm, I don't get offended that easily. The thing is a thermonuclear conflict is the end of the west.

    A nuclear war would eliminate more than thirty million people, as well as the most developed, significant and central parts of Europe. I think the consequences of that are obvious, from the distortion of demand destroying the last remaining enterprises to the elimination of the west's productive capacity, the destruction of supply chains passing through the contamination of the few arable land we have outside of eastern europe as well as the waters and air fucking up food production to the extreme. When you have no food nor water and survival becomes the first priority the state and it's laws are a nuisance even for the very same people who were enforcing them (AKA police force and military) let alone for the population. There's massive racial differences in the US and sufficient ethnic division in Europe for such an anarchic state of things to go even uglier. That is, not to mention levels of starvation not seen since Holodomor.

    I sincerely think it would be plainly wrong to unleash such an event for the integrity of the Federal reserve's money printing machine. But even if this actually were about stopping an expansionist government I think the threat is too much to act in an agressive manner.

    >we need to stop fearing bullies like Putin, and the consequences that standing up to them could have. Helping Ukraine is the just thing to do (in my view, but not just in my view) and also the right message to send to other bullies like Xi Jinping.

    First I want you to think about who wins in an open nuclear conflict between NATO and Russia. Do you think NATO would win, or would Putin find a way to come up on top? I think I have a clear winner for such a conflict, and that winner is Xi Jinping, if China can avoid entering the war.

    I think going personal, or relating events from geopolitics to daily life occurrences can easily lead to confusion and personal animosity, and you should never hate your enemy, that clouds your judgement. So the idea of Putin being a "bully" of sorts doesn't appeal to me, even more if the Baltic states or Romania have joined NATO without Russian meddling a decade after the dissolution of the Warsaw pact without a sight of russian troop.

    But if we have to relate this to personal events I cannot see Russia as the "bully", this reminds me more of when in high school I had only one very fat friend and the other teens would throw chalks or erasers at his head when the teachers weren't paying attention, until the kid grabbed one of the other teenagers on the neck and stomped him on the wall breaking a TV, and after that the kid received lots of insults from the rest of classmates and almost got expelled. If that kid had a gun and the food on his table was dependent on the rest of the class, then he would have had every incentive to start a school shooting.

    Anyways I suggest to abandon partisan positions and personal animosities on the table, to be able to see things clearly as they are. And the fact is Ukraine seems to be on the path or becoming a meat grinder, and if Russia and Ukraine do not come to terms with one another (and I think they could do so) that is ill news for the rest of the world.
    @Suspiria sorry for derailing the thread but I was answering @Uncle Ave and this is somewhat relevant to the topic, if it is good to materially support Ukraine or not.

    Also if anyone wants to help with the war effort he or she can directly follow your guide, any other sort of comment to, dunno, say something possitive towards Ukraine or "show written support" strikes me as useless virtue signaling, which is the opposite to what you're doing. If there's no special utility in the comments of this thread, why not discuss the matter?
    Last edited by RBRS; 02-27-2022 at 02:55 PM.

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    What the fuck is a "hithlerist"?
    Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.

    -Seneca

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