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    LIE-ESI Duality.

    Chris Isaak - male ESI. Helena Christensen - female LIE



    From the YT video's comment section:

    1911HeadBanger 5 months ago (edited)
    This song was written from the heart. Chris Isaak said in an interview that there was a girl he was absolutely crazy about, but hadn't told her yet. They were innocently flirting here and there, but secretly he was wanting to be very serious. One night she called him up and said she was wanting to date Chris, but she only wanted casual sex and no strings attached, for whatever reasons, such as career and education. Chris turned her down, because he felt he would absolutely fall in love with her if they became sexual, but she wouldn't want to be in a relationship, but only casual sex. He wrote the song immediately afterwards. Now you can listen to the song and understand. The heartbreak of wanting someone so badly, yet they only wanted casual sex. But you turn them down to avoid the heartbreak you would be suffering, knowing they would never feel the same way you felt about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    LIE-ESI Duality.

    Chris Isaak - male ESI. Helena Christensen - female LIE



    From the YT video's comment section:

    1911HeadBanger 5 months ago (edited)
    This song was written from the heart. Chris Isaak said in an interview that there was a girl he was absolutely crazy about, but hadn't told her yet. They were innocently flirting here and there, but secretly he was wanting to be very serious. One night she called him up and said she was wanting to date Chris, but she only wanted casual sex and no strings attached, for whatever reasons, such as career and education. Chris turned her down, because he felt he would absolutely fall in love with her if they became sexual, but she wouldn't want to be in a relationship, but only casual sex. He wrote the song immediately afterwards. Now you can listen to the song and understand. The heartbreak of wanting someone so badly, yet they only wanted casual sex. But you turn them down to avoid the heartbreak you would be suffering, knowing they would never feel the same way you felt about them.
    What do you think he means by "nobody loves no one..." In the end?

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    Trick is, there's no love in rationality. Love is irrational.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    What do you think he means by "nobody loves no one..." In the end?
    Here is what I think:

    First, I'm going to assume that Chris Isaak is an ESI and that he actually wrote the song, as stated in the comment.

    Second, I'm going to assume that ESI's have certain traits. (This is based on theory and my own personal experience.)
    The first trait is that ESI's, being Fi-doms, feel things deeply. They prioritize their feelings the same way that LIE's prioritize logic. In fact, once they come to like or love you, it is hard to change their minds, but if they do change, it goes all the other way. Black or white.
    The second trait is that ESI's are very self-referenced. This is an Fi-thing, they are making value judgements based on the way they feel, not the way the group feels, and it manifests itself in discussions in chat where they will make references to people without naming them specifically, because they just assume that you, like they, know whom they are talking about, because they have a hard time getting outside themselves into Fe. So when they feel something, then naturally, they think that everyone feels that same thing. Or should. This is what you are seeing when you see an ESI (or any Fi-dom) projecting their feeling onto the group. LIE's in turn make their own incorrect assumptions and would be saying, "Of course you see the logic of this! Anyone could see this."

    ESI's also have low Ni, which means it is hard for them to project possibilities into the future and see which one is the most likely case. Which is OK, because their duals can do that, but it makes ESI's very guarded when they first meet someone. Every ESI I've ever met, even the ones who approached me, was very, very guarded. It is a defense strategy against falling deeply in love and then finding out that the object of their attention is a bank robber/cannibal/jerk who doesn't love them back.

    So, we have Chris Isaak falling for this women, and falling pretty hard. He wants the whole deal, but she just wants a side-dish. She doesn't feel about him the same way that he feels about her, and if that mutuality, that equality, isn't in place, then he can't participate in the relationship. Maybe if he just wanted casual sex from her, then it would be fine, but since his Fi has been deeply triggered, he's not going to settle for second-best.

    He has to tell himself a story to explain why he won't accept her terms. She doesn't love him, so he tells himself that he doesn't love her, either, even though he does. And then the self-centered Fi projection occurs. Not just, "I don't love her and she doesn't love me", but rather "No body loves no one...."
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-20-2019 at 07:57 PM.

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    Tbh, I agree that Chris Isaak is ESI (Sx/Sp), but the other woman in the story could have been almost any other type.
    I am guessing she was a fellow Aggressor who just wanted to "blow off some steam".

    And Helena also seems rather like a fellow ESI than LIE.
    NTs are not really physically and emotionally "sensual", that's mostly the domain of SF.

    On a sidenote (personal pet peeve of mine hah), many people assume that SX first people have to be "sensual" or "smoldering" or "sexy/hot" etc,
    but they forget that N types rarely have that strength, it mostly applies to SFs. So that's how many SX first NTs often get mistyped as SX second or even last ime.
    NFs might be able to be emotionally "coquettish" and flirty, but sensuality is the domain of S.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    And Helena also seems rather like a fellow ESI than LIE.
    NTs are not really physically and emotionally "sensual", that's mostly the domain of SF.
    Helena Christensen seems classically beautiful but not really that sensual to me. Actually she has a bit of a brittle vibe which is typical of N type women.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Helena Christensen seems classically beautiful but not really that sensual to me. Actually she has a bit of a brittle vibe which is typical of N type women.
    Fair enough, I have not analyzed her enough to make a more definite typing. But typing her as LIE seems a bit like wishful thinking to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Tbh, I agree that Chris Isaak is ESI (Sx/Sp), but the other woman in the story could have been almost any other type.
    I am guessing she was a fellow Aggressor who just wanted to "blow off some steam".

    And Helena also seems rather like a fellow ESI than LIE.
    NTs are not really physically and emotionally "sensual", that's mostly the domain of SF.

    On a sidenote (personal pet peeve of mine hah), many people assume that SX first people have to be "sensual" or "smoldering" or "sexy/hot" etc,
    but they forget that N types rarely have that strength, it mostly applies to SFs. So that's how many SX first NTs often get mistyped as SX second or even last ime.
    NFs might be able to be emotionally "coquettish" and flirty, but sensuality is the domain of S.
    @Olimpia, take a look at Helena Christensen in “Away We Stay” with David Gandy, another male ESI.

    I know two female LIE’s IRL, and both of them have a kind of a hard face, an intractable inner drive, and are clumsy with knowing how they feel.

    *EDIT*
    It feels weird to read what I just wrote about my impression of female LIE’s. I can’t see myself very well, but I wonder if that applies to me, too?

    Olimpia, I find it interesting that you perceive Helena to be an Aggressor who just wants to blow off some steam. The LSI that I was seeing also claimed that I was an Aggressor.
    ESI-LIE is the most balanced of the four Aggressor-Victim dual pairs.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-25-2019 at 12:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Olimpia, take a look at Helena Christensen in “Away We Stay” with David Gandy, another male ESI.

    I know two female LIE’s IRL, and both of them have a kind of a hard face, an intractable inner drive, and are clumsy with knowing how they feel.
    She looks a lot more Te-ish now that she´s older
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    She looks a lot more Te-ish now that she´s older
    I think it takes a long time for LIE’s to shake off society’s expectations and just be who we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I think it takes a long time for LIE’s to shake off society’s expectations and just be who we are.
    I dont think so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    I dont think so
    Well, some LIE's get their act together sooner than others.

    http://www.openculture.com/2013/08/r...rted-wife.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    *EDIT*
    It feels weird to read what I just wrote about my impression of female LIE’s. I can’t see myself very well, but I wonder if that applies to me, too?

    Olimpia, I find it interesting that you perceive Helena to be an Aggressor who just wants to blow off some steam.
    I meant that the woman in the story just wanted to "blow off some steam", and there is a high likelihood she was a fellow Aggressor. Does not mean that all Aggressors just want to "blow off some steam". But there is a high correlation. Most promiscuous people are Se ego or IEE afaik.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    I meant that the woman in the story just wanted to "blow off some steam", and there is a high likelihood she was a fellow Aggressor. Does not mean that all Aggressors just want to "blow off some steam". But there is a high correlation. Most promiscuous people are Se ego or IEE afaik.
    Are you talking about the woman in Chris Isaak's personal story, or Helena Christensen? Because I see Ms. Christensen as a clear LIE. She looks pretty Victimy in "Away We Stay".

    I can understand a desire to blow off steam. I get kind of nuts in two situations. One, when I haven't had sex in a long time, and two (and this might be related) when I start to think that I'm not going to ever find the One. Maybe this is an Sx-first problem, and what I really lack is supportive intimacy. But this isn't related to being an Aggressor or not. When I'm in a committed relationship, I'm absolutely faithful.

    My LII sister once told me that the reason she sought out sex with strangers is that she was seeking intimacy and some Fe attention, and while she was perfectly well aware that she might only get slivers of intimacy from stranger sex, she thought that something was better than nothing. And no one would mistake an LII for an Aggressor.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-25-2019 at 10:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alstroemeria View Post


    SEE male - ILI female

    It pretty much epitomises Stratiyevskaya's depiction of SEE-ILI duality:

    "ILI is inclined to gloomy predictions regarding the future, and thus he will tactically test and re-test his partner to assure himself that in the future this person will not let him down. Only an individual who is exceptionally enterprising, who readily takes initiative, who is "ethically brave" and able to love "without fear and regret" and "gift" others with his love as the sun shines its rays upon the earth, only such a person would be able to counter and dispel ILI's doubts. The ILI "blossoms" receiving such love. This love, first of all, brings pleasure to the SEE himself, and ILI greatly values this trait in his dual."
    Idk how to reply to stuff correctly smh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    I meant that the woman in the story just wanted to "blow off some steam", and there is a high likelihood she was a fellow Aggressor. Does not mean that all Aggressors just want to "blow off some steam". But there is a high correlation. Most promiscuous people are Se ego or IEE afaik.
    highly doubt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    This reminds me of the infamous Lolita situation – did Lolita seduce Humbert, or did Humbert "seduce" Lolita?

    I believe this whole situation is much more complex than it seems at first sight.

    Yes, Humbert took advantage of Lolita and essentially abused her, but in the beginning she used to play with his emotions and find selfish delight in his overwhelming attraction towards her.

    In the case of the LII sister with the married old man, I doubt he abused her, but I feel like there was a similarly complex interaction going on, where both people got something out of it to differing degrees.

    Having said all that, I do agree that the adult man is being at fault here, for the mere fact that young girls lack the maturity to be entirely responsible for their actions.
    and children normally exult in power. we don't sexually abuse them in response. that's bad.

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    @hibiscus, those two might be LIE-ESI duals, but that guy is a jerk.

    I do think he's LIE, but I also think he's the e3 flavor of LIE.


    *EDIT*
    I will say one thing for them. They have a good "met cute" story.

    In my long investigations of what makes a marriage more likely to work, a "met cute" story is very important. It is right up there with mutual respect, no eye-rolling when your mate is talking, and active listening.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-27-2020 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Olimpia, take a look at Helena Christensen in “Away We Stay” with David Gandy, another male ESI.

    I know two female LIE’s IRL, and both of them have a kind of a hard face, an intractable inner drive, and are clumsy with knowing how they feel.

    *EDIT*
    It feels weird to read what I just wrote about my impression of female LIE’s. I can’t see myself very well, but I wonder if that applies to me, too?

    Olimpia, I find it interesting that you perceive Helena to be an Aggressor who just wants to blow off some steam. The LSI that I was seeing also claimed that I was an Aggressor.
    ESI-LIE is the most balanced of the four Aggressor-Victim dual pairs.
    I must add that from my personal experience LSIs are extremely categorical in typing according to Socionics. They read an article, interpret it by mirroring the information to their own personal experiences, then try to type people as if they were robots. "Here in the document says aggressors do X, Y did X, Y is aggressor". While typology doesn't seem to work like that all the time. Specially in the sense of extroverted victims EIE and LIE who show aggressive behavior in their daily lives and hate to be called "victim"

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    Grimes (ESI-Se) & Elon Musk (LIE-Te)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckrz View Post
    Grimes (ESI-Se) & Elon Musk (LIE-Te)

    I don't even like admitting that Elon Musk is an LIE. He's so disconnected from how things should be, he doesn't understand the typical role of a CEO, he would rather pick fights on twitter than act professional, and he doesn't care about his actions in relation to his companies (or their stock prices, I have so, so many examples of this.)
    I can't accept that anyone would put him as a Te subtype LIE. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this guy is much too disconnected from the way reality works. Even just the way he runs his companies, sure he's a workaholic, but you can tell he didn't care about a majority share, until he was bit with reality, unlike 'real' LIEs like Jeff Bezos who understand how things work ahead of time. How many LIEs are going to tank their stock by admitting "Tesla is overvalued imo". Half of this guy is like a child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    I don't even like admitting that Elon Musk is an LIE. He's so disconnected from how things should be, he doesn't understand the typical role of a CEO, he would rather pick fights on twitter than act professional, and he doesn't care about his actions in relation to his companies (or their stock prices, I have so, so many examples of this.)
    I can't accept that anyone would put him as a Te subtype LIE. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this guy is much too disconnected from the way reality works. Even just the way he runs his companies, sure he's a workaholic, but you can tell he didn't care about a majority share, until he was bit with reality, unlike 'real' LIEs like Jeff Bezos who understand how things work ahead of time. How many LIEs are going to tank their stock by admitting "Tesla is overvalued imo". Half of this guy is like a child.
    It's because he isn't a LIE. He doesn't give a fuck about stock prices, "proper CEO behavior" and other utterly boring Gamma Te crap.
    Grimes possibly being IEE (ESI isn't impossible though) is interesting, shows that Socionics understanding isn't complete and current theories of ITR don't explain everything.
    Last edited by Northstar; 05-18-2020 at 07:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    It's because he isn't a LIE. He doesn't give a fuck about stock prices, "proper CEO behavior" and other utterly boring Gamma Te crap.
    Grimes possibly being IEE (ESI isn't impossible though) is interesting, shows that Socionics understanding isn't complete and current theories of ITR don't explain everything.
    @Northstar, I agree with you. I think he’s most likely a very, very smart ILE who got lucky and his initial luck has made him more luck, which can happen in the real world.
    Someone pointed to his sleeping on the Tesla assembly line as an example of his work ethic. I say No, it’s an example that he’s clueless, random, and he’s doing it wrong.
    I could see Grimes as an IEE. Or much less likely, an ESI e4. Either way, she gives me the creeps but I could see an ILE going for her. Her Ne is right up there, and they can act like two irresponsible kids together. It isn’t love, it’s mutual reinforcement and all about feeling validated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Northstar, I agree with you. I think he’s most likely a very, very smart ILE who got lucky and his initial luck has made him more luck, which can happen in the real world.
    Someone pointed to his sleeping on the Tesla assembly line as an example of his work ethic. I say No, it’s an example that he’s clueless, random, and he’s doing it wrong.
    I could see Grimes as an IEE. Or much less likely, an ESI e4. Either way, she gives me the creeps but I could see an ILE going for her. Her Ne is right up there, and they can act like two irresponsible kids together. It isn’t love, it’s mutual reinforcement and all about feeling validated.
    He's smart and much more irrational than a typical LSI (Se subtype), with some ILE traits (but definitely isn't one). Sleeping there isn't work ethic to me either, it's being passionately invested in his work/vision (same thing) and wanting to make sure things are done exactly according to his specifications. LSI traits, both of them.
    Being rich and powerful with endless amounts of fun things to do can solve many classic socionics ITR issues. IEE are independent with their own pursuits and don't need that much attention, that can work very well for a busy LSI that doesn't have much time over to put into a relationship.

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    I’ve seen an ILE buckle down and work frantically when he thought his job was at risk, but then immediately revert to artful dodging and screwing up customer relations as his normal mode of doing business.

    The LSI’s that I know are good at incrementally building businesses and would never, ever be caught smoking weed on camera with Joe Rogan. But an ILE would do that because, why not? Especially if he got to speculate on Time and Space and the Mysteries of the Universe at the same time with an admiring audience. I just can’t see an LSI ever doing that.


    ILE’s are good at starting businesses and then derailing them for the hell of it. If Elon is making money, it’s because his investors are forcing some discipline on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I’ve seen an ILE buckle down and work frantically when he thought his job was at risk, but then immediately revert to artful dodging and screwing up customer relations as a normal mode of doing business.

    The LSI’s that I know are good at incrementally building businesses and would never, ever be caught smoking weed on camera with Joe Rohan. But an ILE would do that because, why not?
    Your view of LSI seems too simplistic and monochromatic. Similar to my stereotypical view of LIE businessmen, actually.
    I'm not ILE but don't see a problem with his smoking weed on camera. Breaking the rules and expectations of the boring Te business world and messing with stock market lemmings is fun. It's creative use of your Se power, provoking Fe reactions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Your view of LSI seems too simplistic and monochromatic. Similar to my stereotypical view of LIE businessmen, actually.
    I'm not ILE but don't see a problem with his smoking weed on camera. Breaking the rules and expectations of the boring Te business world and messing with stock market lemmings is fun. It's creative use of your Se power, provoking Fe reactions.
    Lots of things are fun but they usually aren’t going to give other people confidence in the idea that you will grow their money for them. Elon is getting money because he’s been lucky. His space ventures were on the edge of failure when congress told NASA to find a private contractor to launch rockets. He’s being funded almost entirely by mandated NASA money. So the first chance he got, he launched a toy car into orbit. Good grief.

    This is why I said that he has been lucky, and that luck can create more luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Lots of things are fun but they usually aren’t going to give other people confidence in the idea that you will grow their money for them. Elon is getting money because he’s been lucky. His space ventures were on the edge of failure when congress told NASA to find a private contractor to launch rockets. So the first chance he got, he launched a toy car into orbit. Good grief.

    This is why I said that he has been lucky, and that luck can create more luck.
    Fair enough. That just shows that his motivations aren't about money at all and he doesn't care about growing other people's money either. He simply plays by his own rules, not those of the stock market. Ti > Te.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Fair enough. That just shows that his motivations aren't about money at all and he doesn't care about growing other people's money either. He simply plays by his own rules, not those of the stock market. Ti > Te.
    I agree with that, yes.

    LSI’s are systems builders who are guided by rules, which is why I don’t see Elon as an LSI. And he’s too inventive and too random and undisciplined to be LIE. But that’s just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I agree with that, yes.

    LSI’s are systems builders who are guided by rules, which is why I don’t see Elon as an LSI. And he’s too inventive and too random and undisciplined to be LIE. But that’s just my opinion.
    Tesla as a company operates under very tight rules and management controls, the front desk people have no say in how company policy should be followed. Elon rules the company with an iron grip, that's classic LSI.
    LSI don't want to operate under the rules of the society or rules of "common sense" (these are all mostly Te), instead following his own personally created rules (Ti) and making his underlings follow them without question (creative Se).
    That may seem random to Te users especially, since the thought process behind the decisions and personal rules is not verbalized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Tesla as a company operates under very tight rules and management controls, the front desk people have no say in how company policy should be followed. Elon rules the company with an iron grip, that's classic LSI.
    LSI don't want to operate under the rules of the society or rules of "common sense" (these are all mostly Te), instead following his own personally created rules (Ti) and making his underlings follow them without question (creative Se).
    That may seem random to Te users especially, since the thought process behind the decisions and personal rules is not verbalized.
    Can you give an example of a famous CEO who isn’t said to rule with an iron grip?

    On this forum, people have said that Steve Jobs is EIE lmao. And he’s said to rule with an iron grip. I mean I guess you could say that duals have similarities like that, but I just feel like there’s no consistency or temperance with how stereotypes are flung around on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Can you give an example of a famous CEO who isn’t said to rule with an iron grip?

    On this forum, people have said that Steve Jobs is EIE lmao. And he’s said to rule with an iron grip. I mean I guess you could say that duals have similarities like that, but I just feel like there’s no consistency or temperance with how stereotypes are flung around on this forum.
    You don't become a famous CEO without being power-hungry so probably rumors about this abound on all of them. Do all these other CEOs actually spend a lot of their time at the front lines to see it with their own eyes and create rigid (harmfully so even) company policies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    You don't become a famous CEO without being power-hungry so probably rumors about this abound on all of them. Do all these other CEOs actually spend a lot of their time at the front lines to see it with their own eyes and create rigid (harmfully so even) company policies?
    Ok. And does that mean then that all famous CEOs are LSI?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Ok. And does that mean then that all famous CEOs are LSI?
    The answer to this question is left as an exercise to the reader.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    The answer to this question is left as an exercise to the reader.
    Lmao wtf. And I leave my question out there to be considered by you and others too with that same reasoning haha.

    But seriously though, the majority of people on here type Steve Jobs EIE, for the exact same reason: that he rules with an iron first, like H1tler. Well also that he’s a visionary and creative etc. That second part I can get. But overall this is like typing someone SLE because he likes bodybuilding, and then typing another person IEI also because he likes bodybuilding lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    But seriously though, the majority of people on here type Steve Jobs EIE
    mb ILI
    EIE style is seen in Apple's advertising having a pretension on elitism, such emotional image. This may have the influence on how company's leader of perceived.
    This reminds the situation with Putin, who due to medias propaganda and image-makers is often perceived with beta T traits, while having ILI. The situation with Trump, who is similar hysterioid as Hithler and Bush-jr but many ones miss this somehow and suppose SLE.
    Besides surface interpretations by a slighly known to public behavior, the strong factor is conformism to which are more predisposed people who did not typed totally themselves significantly. And today speculative typing methods help in this approach. It's alike 99% of who you may meet on forums.

    it's well known story

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    mb ILI
    EIE style is seen in Apple's advertising having a pretension on elitism, such emotional image. This may have the influence on how company's leader of perceived.
    This reminds the situation with Putin, who due to medias propaganda and image-makers is often perceived with beta T traits, while having ILI. The situation with Trump, who is similar hysterioid as Hithler and Bush-jr but many ones miss this somehow and suppose SLE.
    Besides surface interpretations by a slighly known to public behavior, the strong factor is conformism to which are more predisposed people who did not typed totally themselves significantly. And today speculative typing methods help in this approach. It's alike 99% of who you may meet on forums.

    it's well known story
    I type Jobs LSI personally but could see ILI too. Way better than EIE lmao. Just because he looks evil and is artsy or something does not mean EIE forum retards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Can you give an example of a famous CEO who isn’t said to rule with an iron grip?

    On this forum, people have said that Steve Jobs is EIE lmao. And he’s said to rule with an iron grip. I mean I guess you could say that duals have similarities like that, but I just feel like there’s no consistency or temperance with how stereotypes are flung around on this forum.

    Jobs could be LII.

    stevejobsyoung_a.jpg

    LSI is also possible according to my VI, but ILI is too far off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Jobs could be LII.

    stevejobsyoung_a.jpg

    LSI is also possible according to my VI, but ILI is too far off.
    Well VI is meh but he looks too manly and solid for LII IMO. You could sharpen a saw with his jawline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Well VI is meh but he looks too manly and solid for LII IMO. You could sharpen a saw with his jawline.
    Lol. I focus mainly on the eyes and gestalt of the entire expression with him. There's a certain heated intensity and focus in his eyes that makes me want to lean more towards LSI. But I definitely think he's Ti-dom. George Lucas might be the most closely comparable VI in his younger years, and he could be the LII while Jobs is the LSI.

    Edit: Definitely leaning more towards LSI for Jobs now. Also note an odd resemblance to Tom Cruise in his pictures. Might be related, or not, but I think Cruise might be EIE.

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