"his career choice depended on the advice of others" - weak Se and Te-Seeking
honestly, with the descriptions of him and watching his interviews again he does remind me of me lol
"his career choice depended on the advice of others" - weak Se and Te-Seeking
honestly, with the descriptions of him and watching his interviews again he does remind me of me lol
Yes, and it's the exact opposite to what a SLE would do. The latter would even dictate that very career to others who are unsure.Originally Posted by tempest
In what aspects do you resemble him?
The career thing. Going my own way and staying close to my friends vs. wanting to fit in with the crowd. I was also bullied throughout elementary-second year of high school because I 'appeared weak' so it was sort of easy for people to do it. (I'm over it, it's been a few years so don't feel bad lol) I'm actually good friends with them now.
I agree with his whole stance about doing a side-project in order to keep the integrity of the band. I felt like that would be the same reason why I would do something like that, if I were in his position.
And I act a lot like him, as far as mannerisms and the deep voice lol. I think that might be why people think he's Se-Valuing. I'm 4w5 sx/so though.
He could possibly be an IEI, but he's just so "boring" and expressionless in a typical EII way. His voice is really monotonous and droning. ESI also seems possible, he seems too weak in Se.
Do you really think that Scott Weiland is an EII? He acts like a stereotypical EIE, performing as a dictator in a super dramatic way, and he seems to love doing it.
did you watch the interview?
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I haven't said anything, because I think he's just another ESI Type 4...Cue - @Cassandra you haven't said anything about him, join our party. You're oddly silent, what's going onI know you already have a complete typing with enneagram and instincts up your sleeve, with all the details
And people accuse me of typing everyone as ESI, so I told myself unless someone asks me for my typing of an ESI, I won't mention it.
The video of him drawing and talking about archetypes showcased his Ni HA well, his referral to statistics hinted at his Te valuing, etc.
What some people see in him as being like an SLE is his Creative Se. ESI and SLE have got the same kind of Se, -Se.
He likely has got 8 in his tritype, which can also make him seem similar to an SLE.
What makes people think he could be INFx is his Type 4-ness, essentially.
All in all, I haven't looked too much into his personality and background (yet?),
but so far it seems to me he is an ESI, Type 4 or Type 6, SX first (likely Sx/So), 468 (or 469) tritype.
In that manner, he'd be similar to Marilyn Manson, imo.
This guy is like the stereotype of a IEI-Fe E 4 ?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
@Cassandra I think you're fading away into the Enneagram and losing sight of Socionics lol. It doesn't make anyone 'seem' like NFs, unless you're looking at information and skewing it in your favor. It's clear this guy values, and is Ne-Ego. Ne-Ignoring also does not look like what he has done. Think Kurt Cobain, Alanis Morissette, Kate Bush, or Marilyn Manson. Ni-Leading ignores Ne in favor of the dream or vision they are pursuing, cutting out all unneeded ideas until they are finished with their vision. Side projects just wouldn't be common with Strong Ni-Valuing. Ne-Vulnerable doesn't make sense with all of his ideas he has come up with for his music. There IS such a thing as Ni-Demonstrative that does come out sporadically and I believe you are mistaking it for Ni-HA.
Well, I still kind of think he's EII. Theoretically, if he's EXI then Fi lead should be pretty obvious. He really doesn't have any Se. He hardly ever moves, just stays in 1 spot most of the time.
Damn, this is some Naomi level shit she's got going onExactlyWhy not stir it even more while we're at it. Here's the TMZ (oh man) footage of their abuse scenario (following a miscarriage of hers) in which his drunk wife was observed punching him first and then pretending it was defense. And the last part got filmed:
She just went all out cursing and screaming for everybody to hear (even called her dad to mobilize yet another person, harmed herself to look like she was the victim, went against onlookers, ... I'm sure of 4Dfor her) while he did zero.
Witness account to clarify:
Her self victimization stunt and tantrum antics strongly remind me of Li-Lo, so SEE is a strong possibility.
"I did nothing wrong here!"
"My ribs being broken"
"I heard Andy screaming really loud Aw!Aw!"
"She felt she was in airplane full of Trump supporters" > I can relate to this, at least.
"I saw blood dripping down her face"
"The handcuffs were like a rod, she was banging them across her face"
"I'm the only celebrity in this plane!"
Man this is sad, but also funny as hellShe couldn't be more aggro, and he couldn't be more passive.
I noticed that as well when he talks. Even his performances aren't actively trying to energize and move others or himself (and
But Andy makes it seem flat; his music is probably good to enjoy in a more intimateGamma or Delta setting than a
This video also manifested that he's a 4w3 - self-absorbed while image-conscious, look at him try to fix his outfit countless times. His motivation is doing it for self-expression and attention. It's self-broadcast.
Last edited by Chae; 03-13-2017 at 02:51 PM.
Yes, she used the entire repertoire ofDamn, this is some Naomi level shit she's got going on
"I did nothing wrong here!"
"My ribs being broken"
"I heard Andy screaming really loud Aw!Aw!"
"She felt she was in airplane full of Trump supporters" > I can relate to this, at least.
"I saw blood dripping down her face"
"The handcuffs were like a rod, she was banging them across her face"
"I'm the only celebrity in this plane!"
Man this is sad, but also funny as hell
Every method would serve the purpose - that's irrationality, she can't be a rational type. Blatantly SeFi just like Li-Lo, perfect comparison o.O But because Andy is not ILI - who would take the blame and wait it out while rationalizing her out of it - it backfired. I guess it's because he got his fans' back, strengthened by his Fi.
What do you think her enneagram type could be? I think assertive. I would exclude 8 since her anger really wasn't boiling ("Don't even, Andy" is kinda weak in terms of wrath, way to go, she could be more aggro imo), 7 because she harmed herself (no 7 would be that masochistic), leaves us with 3. Probably why she said the celebrity thing and made her tantrum visible for everybody. 4-wing because she indulges in blame, I think her miscarriage was the trigger for this mechanism - she got drunk and the unhealthy 3's ugly shadow self came out to preserve her agenda.
Matches up with his e4-ness: sulking, saving his image ("this is ridiculous"), as equally masochistic as her, if not more. I think he looks for his savior as many 4s do, that's why he ended up with a SEE who would turn against him in her warrior-ness. Socionics-wise, that's how supervision looks like.
Her anger was very infantile indeed, so no 8. She kept on pushing the same argument over and over even though it wasn't having the desired effect, so no 7. I'm not familiar with her, but this whole charade is texbook toxic 3w4 i.e. TSwift always resorts to that, it just doesn't involve physicality (yet). Like with Kanye and Harris, she'd do shit and regret it, then turn around and lay the blame on them, ask for backup from her squad and bask in the forever-victim image she built up. Ariana too, with the whole treating her fans like shit scandal, she then made up a really flimsy excuse which basically try to make them the assholes.Yes, she used the entire repertoire of
Every method would serve the purpose - that's irrationality, she can't be a rational type. Blatantly SeFi just like Li-Lo, perfect comparison o.O But because Andy is not ILI - who would take the blame and wait it out while rationalizing her out of it - it backfired. I guess it's because he got his fans' back, strengthened by his Fi.
What do you think her enneagram type could be? I think assertive. I would exclude 8 since her anger really wasn't boiling ("Don't even, Andy" is kinda weak in terms of wrath, way to go, she could be more aggro imo), 7 because she harmed herself (no 7 would be that masochistic), leaves us with 3. Probably why she said the celebrity thing and made her tantrum visible for everybody. 4-wing because she indulges in blame, I think her miscarriage was the trigger for this mechanism - she got drunk and the unhealthy 3's ugly shadow self came out to preserve her agenda.
Matches up with his e4-ness: sulking, saving his image ("this is ridiculous"), as equally masochistic as her, if not more. I think he looks for his savior as many 4s do, that's why he ended up with a SEE who would turn against him in her warrior-ness. Socionics-wise, that's how supervision looks like.
Are they still together?
On point. An 8 would stay persistent because they want their stuff under control - until they burst and try to obliterate everything in retaliation, and that is final - they wouldn't be together anymore. But they are! Trying to make it seem all rosy in the media recently. They're both victims like this. Mhm, she lacks the 7ish wit, too. I dig the reference to Swift and Kanye, infantile anger without an actual point and the ability to shoulder complete responsibility for wrong-doing to look good yourself. I know it from my own type, 3w4s can achieve the exact opposite of what they try to do there. I didn't know this about Ariana, what was going on? I thought about Juliet's tritype... 369 might be it.
Their instagram apologies seemed interesting to me, type-wise and how much they match up tragically. Very ethical messages imo:
This kind of sounds like Fi, and yeah he's definitely an NF...
Juliet pretty much sounds like an SEE.
Andy Biersack really reminds me of my EII brother... in terms of his mannerisms, and how he tries to appear "cool" and composed, but still comes off looking fairly weak like a wilted flower. And how they both seem to have an interest in metal/growling kind of music... And how they're really obsessed with their looks and appearances. It's just that EIIs and IEIs can look very similar from a distance, superficially.
Last edited by Singu; 03-13-2017 at 03:46 PM.
Yes, this is an ethical topic. Their standards of "kindness" differ, in ways of treatment. Logics would stick to conventional ideas of friendship but both have a very differenciated vision: Andy takes Onision as only half a friend, Onision deems himself inferior all while trying to stay authentic to his values, even if they consider only the surface.
Ariana has a history of doing a 180º in regards to her attitude to fans and press since her Victorious days. Since hitting it big with The Way there are multiple photo/video evidence and witnesses of behaviour like:
-Announcing schedules so fans could attend to support her (and be papped to make her look like a huge star), and then either turning up hours later and ignoring them or not even attend at all;
-Blatantly ignore fans who waited to see her outside hotels/buildings on usual days, but then stop to take sweet selfies whenever an attitude scandal turned up in the media;
-These posts come right from the horse's mouth, the worst meet and greet ever
What's funny it's that everybody in the industry knows how she is, and TSwit totally snubbed her and her brother.
Alexander DeLeon even tweeted about her in 2011:
That was around the time that video of her asking a homeless black man to promise her not to buy weed with the $20 she gave him was going around. She already kind of had a bad rep after the Victorious cast outed her, and then all those journalists started sharing their nightmarish experiences shooting her too. So you see apart from her fanbase, she's not very popular."hope none of my fans ever have the displeasure of meeting @ArianaGrande. most stuck up, disrespectful person I've ever met in this industry."
That's not gonna end up well.Their instagram apologies seemed interesting to me, type-wise and how much they match up tragically. Very ethical messages imo:
Well I pretty much think that he's an EII now, and that writing has solidified my opinion.
It just goes to show that not all dramatic/aggressive stuff are automatically Beta NF, Delta NFs can be like that too. And male EIIs can try to come across as being more aggressive, and perhaps in some ways they actually are more aggressive. Not all EIIs necessarily come across like uh... an inoffensive preacher or a boyscout leader something. They can be rude, they can swear a lot, they can come across as somewhat aggressive.
So Andy Biersack might actually be a good example of a male EII.
I sometimes will take so long to post my answers I end up missing other people's replies. Good thing I came to check this out again (damn soft pretty boys), otherwise I'd miss good points.
It's interesting you'd mention Onision, because he was precisely the person that came to mind when I saw IEI being argued as Andy's type. I've never seen this video because I only watch his "official" videos on his two channels, but all the while I couldn't stop thinking how contrastating their types are, both in expression and the ethical side.
Please explain what this would entail. What are the "standards of friendship"?
Yes, let's debunk this misconception. I think the sharp looks + deep growling voice + talks a lot + wears scary make-up and screams in his music combination can distract quite a lot from the actual TIM due to the Delta = super fluffy angels assumption. And, that Fi egos can't have a thing for very dark show antics.
Excellent question. So, logical types feel their weakness in the interpersonal realm and adapt to what is commonly accepted. They may even occupy themselves with research about interpersonal laws and common sense, Ti and Te, to fit what is accepted into their ego functions. Ethical types go beyond this as they understand motivation and behavior more accurately without sticking to the standard regulations: for instance, one does not slander, you stay in touch, you support each other. Ethical types are the ones busy trying to make up for their lack in logics, researching about how the immaterial side of life works. Take me at 4 am, I am still busy reading science theory articles on the internet trying to make sense of the world (Te HA).
Logics --> what is not animate aka things: is curious but also helpless concerning humanitarian assets / Ethics --> what is animate aka humans, animals: is curious but also helpless concerning material assets. In that way, a logical Andy would not even try to "correct" what Onision does because the standard you are asking about is well, material, not focused on the interpersonal. He'd share the video for it's sake, for instance, not seeing its offense but maybe economic value. But as Andy is ethical, his standard of friendship is much more intricate: one is politically correct towards Black Veil Brides fans, does not bash people close to oneself like Onision does, refrains to make sexual advances on camera knowing Andy would be very uncomfortable with it.
Yep! I have them as well, apparently I V.I. as SEE in the member picture thead
SX is also related to aggression. It's fairly different from Se in socionics, SX is intent of merging while Se perceives, navigates, alters territory. The mere glance itself tells nothing when we talk SX/Se but how it moves imo
That's really true, @Chae. Judging by your pictures alone, I'd have said you were an Se-dom and possibly Gamma.Yep! I have them as well, apparently I V.I. as SEE in the member picture thead
SX is also related to aggression. It's fairly different from Se in socionics, SX is intent of merging while Se perceives, navigates, alters territory. The mere glance itself tells nothing when we talk SX/Se but how it moves imo
Completely disagree with this notion. This is a huge issue I have with Socionics and judging by everything I've been reading on the forum, I'm not the only one: the idea that people are utterly helpless at and incapable of understanding their weak functions. Not being a natural at something or being bad at it does not mean you have no notion of what that is or how it works. It just means that will probably never be one of your strengths, and you might always need a helping hand at navigating that area.
But many people absolutely exaggerate the PoLR thing to mean people are actually handicapped in that area, or clueless like little children, when that's often not the case. Especially if the person at some point realizes they need to work on their issues and consciously tries to improve and stay alert. Like I sucked big time at Math in school (I got D's all the time) and while it never became easy, after much studying I was able to become average at it.
And using the examples you gave in the bolded parts, that's all stuff that it's natural to me and I'm most definitely not an Ethical type. It's a question first of common decency and character, and also of how one has been raised. I might not have the same standards in relationships others have (mine are insanely high actually), but all the things you've cited are basic manners and also quite logical to me. You can't expect to receive what you can't give, so if you want to be well treated and supported you're going to do the same. It's also a matter of intelligence, if you have it you'll sooner or later learn how to behave in society by observation of cause and effect of your behavior, I don't think you need to study how to live in society as if you're an alien.
By the way I agree 100% with Andy in terms of how to not proceed with people, while agreeing 100% with Onision's sentiments. And they're Ethical, and I'm Logical.
I V.I. SEE too, it freaked me out I bit when I started seeing celebrity typings accompanied by gifs or pics, because I most certainly have the SEE "smik", the wide teeth smile and flirty winks.Yep! I have them as well, apparently I V.I. as SEE in the member picture thead
SX is also related to aggression. It's fairly different from Se in socionics, SX is intent of merging while Se perceives, navigates, alters territory. The mere glance itself tells nothing when we talk SX/Se but how it moves imo
To better illustrate my point, taken from WikiSocion's "SLE Observations":
I can relate to the bolded but that's all. I believe personal history comes to play a big factor in this area, I know in my case it did.
Things that really struck a cord in the Fi PoLR Misunderstood thread:
ESTjs don't have
One thing I'd like to clear up: the thing about "not giving a shit" isn't quite as harsh as i may have made it sound like. My rough translation of that would be that I sort of care at the moment, but once it's done, it's done, and I don't really think about it again. I am actually not incapable of feeling.I wish Expat was still around, she was awesome and always set the record straightActually
I think your contribution in this thread to describing the
That's what I was trying to say before.Thanks! Contrary to popular belief, whether you have strong
Also this post is 100% SLE
Sorry for derailing the thread
Cutting this short, check out this article! Hope it helps.
As for SEE's V.I., 4D Fe might not be expressed since Fi is valued. Have you seen my pictures? I have more of a deadpan despite being an emotion bomb. When Fe is valued, it's much more expressed in V.I, even when in the suggestive channel but it depends on the people around.
What "help" do you think I need?
No, I have never seen your face.
To advance the discussion! This also gives clues about how he's Fi and not Ti base.
Go to the picture thread ayy
But really, the question is: do we even have anything to discuss anymore? I feel like unless someone drops by to suggest he's anything but Ethical again, we won't go back to the subject. He's so transparent.To advance the discussion! This also gives clues about how he's Fi and not Ti base.
Go to the picture thread ayy
Won't close the thread, but yep we can abandon thisssss
I'd have no problem with SEE, makes me on par with handjob which is heaven.
Yep, I've been through the entire rangeYeah, I could totally see how an enneagram 3w4 sx/so IEE could be mistyped as SEE or even EIE.
@Chae: Baekhyun and GDYeah, I could totally see how an enneagram 3w4 sx/so IEE could be mistyped as SEE or even EIE.
Hm?@Chae: Baekhyun and GD
Did you forget that was how you typed them first?
I had GD as EIE, Baekhyun as SLE.
SLE? Damn, I didn't remind it as being so far.
I typed him after Chanyeol, that's why
Anyone can become SEE for a moment in time when they get in bed with one.I'd have no problem with SEE, makes me on par with handjob which is heaven.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
YOU'RE BACKAnyone can become SEE for a moment in time when they get in bed with one.
I see you
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