Actually I've decided I don't use my DS function that much. What I really do is just say semi-offensive (or extremely offensive if I feel like diving in w/o testing the waters) things and see who laughs.
Actually I've decided I don't use my DS function that much. What I really do is just say semi-offensive (or extremely offensive if I feel like diving in w/o testing the waters) things and see who laughs.
Easy Day
Originally Posted by JWC3
IEI-Fe 4w3
Dual Seeking more than suggestive function
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or it is already widely known, but I think dual seeking is more than just the Suggestive/Leading function.
What I've noticed is that SEEs and IEEs have caught my attention by speaking outloud on subjects they have not fully grasped. I become aware of their attempt to appear knowledgeable and thus I become attracted to them.
I think a person's HA acts as sort of a beacon for the creative function of the person's Illusionary/Mirage and Dual.
This would mean that there are at least three types a person can attract by being himself. All you have to do is speak up.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
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Fidei Defensor
that's so funny. That's cool we can be rewarded for not knowing what the heck we are talking about though! I guess there really is charm in everything?
My ESFp ex used to do that often and I hated it! He'd take this false authoritative tone and add up lots of "evidence" that really made no sense.
But it's cute that someone likes this trait!No matter who you are, you will have fans. Which is why socionics is cool. And haters too of course.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
You Suggestive function
Why is it important to you? How does it affect you?
OK, but how about let's break the function down a little, over lines of + and -. Octopus, given that your "main" suggestive element is beta Se, you want a victory that will secure freedom you have been denied in the name of Fi. You insist in your invincibility in the name of those who think to control you and oppress you. In the past you have been unfairly denied and this hurt deeply... it cost you knowledge that you needed, and opportunity. You sought to frame your opportunity in the lens of others' disenfranchisement, that you could take action to restore opportunity for yourself and others. Those who impede this action, who act in the name of eternal inequality to assuage the pain of their unfulfilled desires, are guilty of creating pain for others, so what is to keep you from acting against them?
That's my reading of the relationship between the vital and mental tracks, at least.
Last edited by tcaudilllg; 11-01-2011 at 01:28 PM.
I guess, at a personal level, it's always wishing for me to turn my mind towards things empirically and find out what truly makes the most sense by what is factually correct, to attune myself to the environment [of logical opinions and manifestations of others], which is more or less what people may relate to in any definition, but for me it seems quite essential and something I always take into account, and don't stray off to develop my own understanding. It's also apparent in what I look for in people when they make original arguments to show some proof or a grander scheme/logic for themselves, or else it's harder to take them seriously (with some opinions) at a personal level in the long run. But with any explanation I can easily be open to the interpretation, using Ne to develop trains of thought for a further source of external applicability, and ultimately waver on its validity. I may get lost logically and need an external anchor or vision for my current state of mind, or else I can get frustrated.
In this sense, Te doesn't always hold my own confidence like Fi and Ne always seem to do, because I am more wary of Te in my mind, open to various explanations, and I consider myself less confident when it comes to long term logical matters and cannot just develop "my own understanding" like any Ti valuer can more easily do. It must be rooted in the objectivity of others and make itself visible, make its presence known by a collective external manifestation.
I can easily read in between the lines with Fi and Ne, yet in a relational sense with Te, I desire more from others, even quite subconsciously. I want to in some sense secure my position of this function "given" to me, and explained to me, from some select sources I can trust, from people who have proven to me to be the most accurate, and ultimately comes down to what they pay attention to and how they word things and can make clarifications that match up confidently in my own experiences, and manifest something that can be taught to me that I can then use, because I'm always learning from others, how they come across to me and how they reason. Being an E4, I try to open myself internally, relate and become something of others, invest my current place in faith and see where it takes me.
After sitting hunched over my computer working on this or that (or just drifting aimlessly through the 20-odd manga I have in my reading queue, or some other distraction), it's refreshing and invigorating to go out early in the morning or late at night for a stroll.
Know I'm mistyped?
Why I amnow.
Why I was, once.
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The statements expressed in this signature may not necessarily reflect reality.
What is your overall experience?
It seems as though I value this function highly. I am, myself a workaholic, but I'm a directionless worker. I work a lot on nothing, so to say. I have an idea of what I want to achieve, however, I don't don't know the most productive ways of doing them. I didn't use the random number generator to pick what I should do, or knew of any methods by which I could be super productive, until my LSE boyfriend told me what he does and these methods are what work. He measure how much work I've done, and whether this work is achieving my goal, namely in my business. I really do admire people who are productive, I don't like being told to be productive, like my mom does and God knows I love her with my soul. I like hints and advice in that direction, but I like to see and observe people be productive, not someone to activate that function in myself.
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
How do you experience your dual seeking (5th or suggestive) function?
"EIEs are happy to let someone else organize their schedule and keep track of their engagements and things to do." This is pretty true of Ti for me. But I do have to organize myself so I make a schedule and am rather proud of it. Then I inexorably drift farther and farther away from my beautiful creation. Then I feel sad. When my SLE activity partner bursts on the scene of some project we are working on together and starts telling me what to do and when to do it, I feel slight relief. I think many people here don't have a dual to assist them, and yet we all have to function. I would like to make the best of this area that I can, because I see it as the key to myself being a more effective person. So how do you cope in your suggestive function?
Last edited by Iris; 01-31-2014 at 11:34 PM. Reason: suggestive, not mobilizing function
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
Drinking, mostly.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
I do tend to pay attention to how I do stuff, but I mostly focus on what feels faster to me. Who knows whether it's actually the most efficient way. I also have a tendency to gather lots of information on subjects I find interesting, and I like to share that information with people who have common interests. I often talk about how I will give my (LSE) stepfather a heads up when I come across healthy products, commonly food or drink, that I think he should look into. He's spoken about how I really help him in this regard and how he's grateful for it.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
Ignore it until it goes away or someone else gives it to me.
(by ignore it, I mean whine about it constantly)
i don't really know. except maybe that i ask a lot of questions and sometimes take it for granted that people will be able to answer them and sometimes they say how would i know or why are you asking me and i feel sheepish and put in my place.
i don't think i actually have problems getting things done - maybe not in the most efficient or best way, but i don't feel like i'm in dire need of outside help or anything. i don't have any te egos who play a big role in my life and maybe that's why i don't see a huge need, cuz i'm just used to dealing with stuff myself. i think its more that te gives me a feeling of ease and relief like its not as big of a deal to deal with it, rather than completely taking over that area of life for me.
Food
Mobilizing is 6th, but dual-seeking is 5th, i assume the latter is the one you want answered.
I do a bunch of self-soothing gestures like rubbing my arms/legs or scritching my head and playing with my hair. These have a way of grounding me as I'm thinking about something, and helps reduce some of my flying thoughts. I also walk as much as I can, and do better at considering which options to take if I mull over them while I'm walking. And my legs are constantly shifting and bouncing as a way to help ground my focus.
I suck at figuring out distances and travel timing, and so avoid having to do that when I can (such as avoiding driving, particularly at busy times with lots of drivers, and at evening/night when the light makes it worse).
I touch and cuddle up to my partner a lot. I like feeling the changes in texture as I run my fingers along his body. This also helps ground me mentally, especially if I close my eyes.
I love watching R paint, how focused he gets, and how he's able to transform colors into the shade he wants, and his fine motor control as he paints teeny-tiny details on miniature figures. His drawings are great to look at, but he's not into that and doesn't see what the big deal is. Mine on the other hand are about like a toddler's. I just don't have much mental info/coordination to utilize for creating desired lines, curves, spaces, etc. Recently I attempted needle-felting an animal. He kept coming over to watch the process and chuckle as I'd get frustrated at trying to mold the wool into some kind of shape that might resemble an animal's body. I think he'd be great at that kind of thing because he would have a shape in mind and know how to mold the wool into the shape he wanted. (He kept my animal.)
Basically, I am fascinated by people who utilize Si info, even to the point of getting turned on by excellent use of it. But it's something I feel I can only experience the fringes of and not make much use of beyond basic survival.
Even my cooking is basic, without much flavor. But then, I don't much like thinking of food.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
I'd have to think about it further but Ni/Te basically puts me at ease.
Sure, I can do all of those things on my own, but I feel slightly frantic and/or indifferent. I become more bitter/jaded to the world without a bit of NiTe.
if there's nobody charged with it around, I try to provide it myself via music or activities that automatically make me use it (activate it). Sometimes try to provoke others into providing smth for me, behaving "like my dual-seeking". It can be a real comedy when they're not the right people.
Ne can calm me down a lot. I'm still shit at it myself, but just having spent enough time around duals, when I'm feeling seriously freaked out about something in my life, I can imagine someone saying, "well actually there are paths b, and c, and d." I can't come up with what "b, c, and d" are myself, but knowing that they probably exist make me feel better.
There is also the flip side, where someone is being super-Ne in a manic way, or never finishing a single thought before moving onto the next. This sort of thing makes me want to dump a bucket of cold Si on that person immediately.
That being said, I can't really imagine being able to take care of Ne for myself, beyond what I just listed above. Maybe just being exposed to new ideas through reading a lot?
Um..basically for me, my problem with Ni is that I think I know where im going in life, I have a "glimpse" of the future, but im really not sure since im so in the here and now of every moment. Sometimes I feel so hopeless as to where im heading or what my actual purpose is in this life. In addition to that, I also have ALOT of energy, and have a very fast brain, I need constant stimulation...my Se is too strong. Sometimes I can't calm down internally, although im calm outwardly. Its like this heavy rush of energy pushing me forward in time, and it feels like im on fire, its irritating. Its anger (will). But other than that I just feel empty, a little sad...again because I don't know where im going or why/what im doing.
Because of the above, I take alot of different drugs to help me calm down and let loose and actually feel something other than this anger, I forget about my place in time, and just go with the flow.
Oops should have said suggestive, not mobilizing! I will edit it.Mobilizing is 6th, but dual-seeking is 5th, i assume the latter is the one you want answered.
I do a bunch of self-soothing gestures like rubbing my arms/legs or scritching my head and playing with my hair. These have a way of grounding me as I'm thinking about something, and helps reduce some of my flying thoughts. I also walk as much as I can, and do better at considering which options to take if I mull over them while I'm walking. And my legs are constantly shifting and bouncing as a way to help ground my focus.
I suck at figuring out distances and travel timing, and so avoid having to do that when I can (such as avoiding driving, particularly at busy times with lots of drivers, and at evening/night when the light makes it worse).
I touch and cuddle up to my partner a lot. I like feeling the changes in texture as I run my fingers along his body. This also helps ground me mentally, especially if I close my eyes.
I love watching R paint, how focused he gets, and how he's able to transform colors into the shade he wants, and his fine motor control as he paints teeny-tiny details on miniature figures. His drawings are great to look at, but he's not into that and doesn't see what the big deal is. Mine on the other hand are about like a toddler's. I just don't have much mental info/coordination to utilize for creating desired lines, curves, spaces, etc. Recently I attempted needle-felting an animal. He kept coming over to watch the process and chuckle as I'd get frustrated at trying to mold the wool into some kind of shape that might resemble an animal's body. I think he'd be great at that kind of thing because he would have a shape in mind and know how to mold the wool into the shape he wanted. (He kept my animal.
Basically, I am fascinated by people who utilize Si info, even to the point of getting turned on by excellent use of it. But it's something I feel I can only experience the fringes of and not make much use of beyond basic survival.
Even my cooking is basic, without much flavor. But then, I don't much like thinking of food.
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
I look for someone to help me design something or pick a matching rug
I get annoyed and I ask "why can't you work?"
It just goes on the list of things for my cousin to do when she gets here. She'll figure out how to fix the gosh darn thing.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
One of the manifestations might be my addiction to back & foot massages.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
you're bound to be the next Jeremiah, man.
I'm not the most diplomatic and consistent person in the world, let's say. IxFjs generally help me calm down and remind me to fulfull all my duties (not just the ones that "bring me the most personal benefit"). They also remind me that it may be OK to forego going for a job/activity that pays more but it's not aligned with my personality/woulkd make me feel like shit.
The way I personally give "Te" to ISFjs doesn't really seem to be related to daily efficiency or stuff like that. To be honest, they're usually better than me at that, more careful with money etc.. It's more like...giving an organized direction to widening one's perspective. For example, suggesting to travel to a new place and taking care of most of the practical stuff as to maximize the amount of stuff we see with the lowest budget, or suggesting how to use for "business" (read: money) uses a skill that a Fi type has. It doesn't strictly have an efficiency perspective in an everyday sense, but more like "how to put to use your abilities to obtain the maximum benefit".
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I'm interested in knowing how ILEs and LIIs experience their mobilizing and dual-seeking functions, since I'm currently trying to find my Socionics type and I'm quite assured that I'm one of them.
I don't know Fe feels like a cheerleader to my Ti so I feel encouraged and in the right mindset to go about/enjoy my daily life
My SLI's touch moved me tremendously the first time he touched me - simply taking my hands to pray together, then a quick hug goodbye. In that moment I completely helplessly fell in love with him, even after, in the conversation just before that moment, I had said to myself, "This is not for me." It was as if my will had nothing to do with the matter. And his touch and physical proximity continues to move me, calm me, make me happy. I feel so empty when he is gone.
I am pretty sure this is Si seeking. I didn't know Socionics when I met him, and I had no idea I was "seeking" this.
Also he takes good practical care of things. Because I am a bit of a perfectionist*, I can get overwhelmed and stuck sometimes, and he knows how to go about taking care of the essentials, which seems to get me out of "stuck" faster. My ex used to criticize, making me more stuck, and SLI does not do this (and I don't criticize him) so there is peace and comfort when we are together.
__________
* SLI, who notices everything, says that he sees that I tend to be quite perfectionist about the task I am currently doing, and in the process can neglect other things...
SLIs...
There is many kinds of them on this forum, at least from the info I have gathered thus far.
I really don't experience it. Very rare moments when I exercise sheer force or will to get something. On a regular basis, Se as an activation function manifests itself as a quiet, persistent attempt to gain ground and succeed in life with very small, incremental steps forward. Kind of like a tank on silent mode.
This actually doesn't sound too different from what I get out of NeTi.
It's sort of like, I always assume I can't do a, or b, or c, and I don't see how my traits can be developed to any use. Ne sort of takes this and goes, "look, you're good at this thing... it's not too much of a stretch to develop it over time and fit it into this path that you maybe haven't considered..."
I realized recently that many of the things I've chosen to spend time on developing have been due to some Ne person telling me (maybe once upon a time) that I could be good at it. Otherwise, I don't feel like expending energy into something; it's like I see a blocked road before I even begin. This is something that Se types don't get imo; they try to motivate you by encouraging you to push harder, but the problem is not that I don't want to push hard, but that I don't see the point of working if I feel like I have no potential in that area to begin with. It's not laziness exactly. Si-base makes the world feel very bleak sometimes, haha.
I showed this to my bf and he huffed and walked off with a 'pft, sometimes' which definitely means yes (he agreed when I said that). Basically, I think it's cool reading your perspective on this sort of stuff. I can easily talk about what I get from SiFe, but it's harder for me to see how I impact him. So it's always awesome when I see you post because I get like secondary-bypassed Fe boosts. :3
edited to add- It's also good because I can see how I pop in on that moment. Ne needs someone to bounce ideas off of and to get excited, and you guys get excited by having our neverending what-ifs and how-abouts suggested. It's like a perpetual motion machine of fun things.
Supercharged with Ne
they are extraverts and need someone to listen to them talk
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I'll usually go into self-absorbed workaholic mode, working 80+ hours a week, when no Fi/Ne are present. Not caring about my own family, not caring about friends, not giving a shit about any of that, but just trying to get the most done that's humanly possible and pushing myself and constantly challenging myself.
I think Delta STs, both LSE & SLI, experience Fi & Ne in a way that allows them to see how their actions impact others. Both are masters at maximizing personal comfort, but sometimes we don't see how our actions affect others or how we can make a difference in the lives of others (or even understand others or different perspectives as easily). I read somewhere that both LIE & LSE experience Fi in a way that makes them want to have a social impact on the work they do. I believe there's great fulfillment from work that truly makes someone else's life better, especially from a personality type that isn't as naturally tuned-in to how others are feeling.
When Fi & Ne are present, I often feel I can slow down enough to develop an attachment to things, instead of treating everything impersonally. It makes me feel happy inside, like I have a purpose, rather than constantly completing the mundane. All of a sudden people become real again, they become individuals, rather than treating people like objects or strictly from the standpoint of my relationship to them - coworker, mailman, waiter, etc. I can see people outside of their jobs and start to see their uniqueness and personalities.
I sort of feel like an asshole for writing this. For admitting there are times I don't give a shit about my own family and I just treat coworkers impersonally. It's just when there is something pressing to get done, I don't feel like wasting time on chit-chat or small-talk. I also feel Fi/Ne can be reassuring to remind me that I'm not an asshole for wanting to get things completed & done without wasting time on things that aren't effective. It's almost like, in a potential partner/wife, I'm looking for someone who understands the balance, that I'm not going to improve the life of my family by sitting around at home wishing about it, but by sacrificing my time to work to improve it. I want someone who sees my actions as noble and encourages me to work hard, while also giving the reassurance that she still cares about me.
what do SiFe egos give?
I have a recent LII boss-type person (I've come to be an occasional nanny)...and it's insane how much Si he demands of me when I am around..quite honestly...I have no idea what to do or say to him. He demanded I help decorate/rearrange his house when the kid was in bed because he is terrible at it (he really fucking is...he obsesses over it... it's weird. He paces back and forth telling me what needs to be done, but then doesn't do it.. and then obsesses over where to put his paintings but..that is the least of his worries imo..I can't relate to him at all). but being that he pays well so far... How can I help this person (and in turn..gain a few more extra $..until I can't work for him anymore because he drives me nuts)... I guess I'm wondering is-- how do you give someone Si/Fe enough to help them? Being ESI..the only thing I found myself doing was...putting paintings in a pile of "throw away" vs "keep"... he wasn't thrilled.... (He had a giant painting of a dog...)
Our interactions are uncomfortable to say the least.
Try strychnine.
Just what I noticed out of the relationship my ILE friend has with a SiFe : he grounds her, makes her observe (and sometimes adapt to) some minimal "social traditions" with friends or when she has to stay in a queue to buy something (she would not be far from trying to manipulate ppl into letting her go first or creating some chaos around her just for fun ). It's kind of like he anchors (and filters) her Ne rich what-ifs in a realistic frame. I'm not a blind believer in duality by default , but her case has gone as Socionics says : although they connected hard, didn't click from the beginning, she has now, after about 4 years, become more balanced, less psychologically labile, more aware of others and willing to take their needs / subjectivities into account as well . For instance, he taught her how to choose a present for someone, aka not just buying them what you like and consequently think they should also like or want. She 's a born narcissist, so that came naturally. He actually "saved" her from her addiction to pills and tantrums she had got into after a Fi polr nasty story of unrequited love acknowledged too late just by being there and calming her down --- in a way that I could hardly stand, for example, I'd consider that damn smotheringly unbearably motherly. But it worked for her, it seems. He encouraged her to finish her law studies after some years , not just drop them cause of being too busy with a newly found job. And actually helped her with on practical sides : cooking for her just to make her focus on her exams, stuff like that. By nature she 's a bright person, but procrastinates like shit. ILE 6w7 or 7w6 , that area.
@AshSun actually covered it really well!
But it is a grounding and a way to focus more on the present and whats going on around me. Even if it's doing the dishes or really wanting to buy something, he has a way of phrasing it and make it sound like it was my idea all along to do something or not do something, which is something Fe-creatives seem the best at doing. Like....nudging me in the right direction instead of ordering me to, which doesn't go well (looking at you, Se-users!)
Also, I tend to pay more attention to people around me and fit them into whatever I'm doing. People listen to me more because instead of focusing entirely on the idea I'm trying to support or get people to go along with, I let them get a word in edgewise without a scoff and a "well that won't work so lets do my way". It's a mix of groundedness and a bit more ease in group settings, if that makes sense. I'm still terrible one-on-one and don't think that will ever really go away, but I can rock the socks off of a team/group work and have everyone working together and feeling like they matter and delegating.
tl;dr- Grounding and focusing on the present, with an addition of ethics and how to make people feel comfortabel with each other in groups (either teamwork or parties where no one knows each other). Calming and unobtrusive training for the Fi-polr.
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