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Thread: Is your mother your dual?

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    Default Is your mother your dual?

    I was just wondering: which members on this forum has a mother who is also their dual? Can you elaborate on how that affected you?

    Somehow I have this feeling that not many hands will be held up. Perhaps exactly the reason why many of us are here ;-)
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    My nephew is LSI and his mother is EIE and for the longest time they had the best mother-son relationship one can imagine. They understood each over easily and he was a very well-balanced teenager mentaly.

    Everything went sour when he turned 19 and got his first serious girlfriend. Things turned out really bad to the point that they barely want to speak to each other anymore. And of course the EIE mother can't stand the girlfriend. It's almost like she feels like she's loosing both a son and a friend to a stranger. I think this is very common in mother-son relationships but here it is espacially brutal because nobody saw it coming.

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    My mom and my brother were duals but I wasn't aware of any special understanding? I don't say with any pride that I was still a clear favorite, maybe she wanted a girl to identify with? She was also a severe alcoholic, which has an impact on relationships, obviously.

    My 18 year old son is my dual and I've been like... people say teenagers are difficult? (and maybe he's been objectively not difficult since we've had a healthy relationship)

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    My mother was VI’ed as my dual (she being SLI and my being IEE), but I can’t say for sure if this is true. It is true that she has better Si, is more caretaking and more...disciplined, for lack of a better word, in the career sense than say my EIE father (he was a musician) and myself, but I‘m not sure quite sure if I see my mom as Fe vulnerable...maybe. Regardless, it does make sense that we may belong to the same quadra and overall have good relations. In certain ways my EIE father and I have more of an understanding in terms of certain views on life/lifestyle, maybe both being NF (I still consider this possibility for mom however, though her Si seems quite strong), but it’s easier to be around my mom for longer periods, I have lived with her more harmoniously, etc.

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    No. My brother is my mom’s dual. My brother has very strong will WILL. He can dash out that Se in droves and ignore my mother who isn’t strong willed but she is pushy as hell. They exist peacefully lol.
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    No. Lots of similar traits though. These similarities are often the source of conflict as we can't help each other.

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    Me being Fi PoLR.. generally I'm known of being the easy and crazy one as I do not put any stress on relationships and probably the most secretly disturbing at the same time like being deceivingly good mannered and fierce or whatever.

    I wonder how SEI would have changed this. I obviously met few mom aged SEI's in my childhood and it seemed to be very problem solving and discussion based thingy with them. It was like I came up answers to problems from nowhere and hence they were quite amazed being around me. I suppose she would have supported my hobbies more... but I developed of being quite independent due to lack of direct involvement.
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    My mother is an almost stereotypical ESE, so she's not my dual. There's a lot of ambiguity in my relationship with her; when I was a child she spent most of the day at work and my siblings and I would be left with babysitters or daycares. It's clear she loves me and wants to be there for me, but she still seems too distant in a way, almost as if she hides her true feelings to present a facade of a devoted mother.

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    My mother is my dual. Our relationship isn't the best, but I'm my mother's favorite, so go me.

    It's hard to say in what respects my experience is just a normal parent-child relationship, since most people I've known well enough to compare, including much of my extended family, has unusual family dynamics. But my mother seemed to really, really like me when I was a child. I'm sure this is generally normal, especially for a first-born child, but she seemed often as if she were happier and more relieved just by my presence, especially if I was happy. I remember once, when I was 5-7, she began, out of nowhere, to cry with happiness that she had me.

    She cared for my (SEE, I think) sister, but I don't think my mother ever felt quite the same way toward her, and I'm unsure if this was related to my being firstborn, male, or my personality, or any number of these things. The thing is, my sister was objectively tiring to deal with until she hit puberty (a subversion of the normal expectation!) -- she threw tantrums (where she'd actually get on the floor and pound her fists while screaming) on average once a day until she was about 7 or 8, I think, and she tended to be just a generally demanding child. Honestly, no parent, no matter how loving and patient, is going to feel ecstatic when they come home from work and their kid has been screaming for thirty minutes about how their brother got a slightly larger piece of toast or something. So there's naturally going to be some discrepancy there...is what I'd say, if my sister weren't my (SLE) father's favorite.

    If Socionics factors were at play I'm not sure what exactly they were, other than having compatible general temperaments. It's not as if I helped my mother balance the budget or whatever T types are supposed to do for F types. But there may have been something like a caregiver-infantile dynamic, where she was charmed by my general...easygoingness, or something; I don't know how I'd describe it well.

    Now that I think of it, she seemed to feel similarly about a dog we used to have. He was a Great Dane, and despite being very large and intimidating-looking, he was incredibly sweet, happy, and affectionate. She always seemed to drop years from her face when she would prepare him a treat after work, and she would see him happy and affectionate, or if she was sitting and he came to greet her. I'm not sure it's coming across, but whatever caregiver types like seeing in infantiles she seemed to see both in him and in me.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 02-13-2020 at 12:09 AM.

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    I'm still unsure about my type. My mom is ESFj, and if she's my dual, we have a terrible relationship. Growing up was a nightmare. Really unstable, incompatible and intense, she's everything that I'm not. We argue all the time, she's always critical of every little thing I do and she is the only person in the world that makes me lose my cool.
    Last edited by Ajna; 02-14-2020 at 05:08 PM. Reason: just read about conflict relationships. ESE-ILI. maybe I'm really ILI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajna View Post
    I'm still unsure about my type. My mom is ESFj, and if she's my dual, we have a terrible relationship. Growing up was a nightmare. Really unstable, incompatible and intense, she's everything that I'm not. We argue all the time, she's always critical of every little thing I do and she is the only person in the world that makes me lose my cool.
    @Ajna, my LII sister and my LSE mother hate each other. My mother was always criticizing my sister, and my sister just did not take that well. My LII sister went through several husbands and many BF's, but now she's married to an LSE.

    After you become an adult, people tend to treat you better, and with more respect. My sister would have been better off with an ESE, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Ajna, my LII sister and my LSE mother hate each other. My mother was always criticizing my sister, and my sister just did not take that well. My LII sister went through several husbands and many BF's, but now she's married to an LSE.

    After you become an adult, people tend to treat you better, and with more respect. My sister would have been better off with an ESE, IMO.
    Illusionary can actually be a very intense relationship and quite painful. Your illusionary partner has a primal version of your role function. It can be really all or nothing and very powerful in a raw way. So it can scare the shit out of the other person. People often react to fear with anger, so arguments etc.

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    I think that conflictors look similar in many ways. My mother is my dual’s conflictor, LSE. I feel grateful in a way to have had this experience, even though she was often very horrible to me as a child.

    My father is my semi-dual. He never really developed his Se enough to “protect” both me and himself against her, mentally, although I was always doing fine in a way physically. I worked to protect us both against the crazy too.

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    At the moment, I believe my mother's type is ESI. Not my dual, but activity, if my current thought process is correct. However, pretty close, I suppose. There are certainly times where things she says and does have hit me pretty hard, though I didn't really realize what was happening. As to how it affected me... can't be certain, maybe it has allowed me to see through my own bullshit faster than others have here, just based on the implications of the original post.

    (story time lol) I remember as a kid, how irrationally angry I got at my siblings (Alpha SF and EII) because they were taking more of her attention than I did. I excelled academically, never had an issue with managing schedules or completing work, but I did want her - or someone - to notice it and recognize it. I did not voice it, though, as I knew she did have other things she had to pay attention to more, but it would have been nice.

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    My mom is SEI with an LSE double-type, essentially an Alpha type which is oriented towards Delta, and a Dominant subtype in DCNH. So imagine a SEI who outwardly behaves like an LSE and who is also a choleric by temperament. People have told her that she'd make a great manager, and it does feel like she needs a group or team that she could organize. She has this amazing ability to whip people up and coerce them into some project or action, yet she also doesn't slack and is very active herself. We've had an offish relationship early on, because she would literally coerce me into living out her own dreams. Over the time I rebelled just kind of discovering my own values, turned the tables on her, and started working on improving our relationship. Its been smoother sailing ever since, as we connected over a number of interests, and perhaps true to socionics "business" relations it's been kind of enjoyable to work together.

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    ^@remiges, an SEE is basically an ESI who wants you to pay attention to her, and she's willing to bug the hell out of you to get your attention.

    Well, it's not really that simple, but that doesn't make the description wrong.

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    Nope. Pretty sure she's SEI, caregiving, traditional and with simple tastes. A lot of Fe-babbling about relatives, hopelessly incompetent in many Te-matters and doesn't have a problem admitting it. Good at housekeeping. She always had zero authority over me which caused issues but we started getting along much better after I moved out. She's been married to my father (guessing ILE for him) for over 40 years now, they're very Alpha.

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    Think my mom is IEE 7w6 so/sp. not my dual, but a good mom. Always there for me, always taking care of me and made me feel safe. She always wanted me to know I could tell her anything, was pretty open. I never felt like I could open up to her fully. I believe she thought I was/am a little odd and it bothered her. She doesn’t like ‘weirdness’. Frequently told me, don’t say that, it’s weird. Liked getting me ‘involved’ a lot, whatever I wanted to do, she would support it. She was paranoid about my safety but at the same like gave me a lot of freedom. Looking back, I almost think too
    much. Very aristocratic about people. At times it has rubbed me the wrong way. But I think I prefer having an ethical type as a mother. I wouldn’t have had it any other way and am happy to have her as a mother.
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    Nope, my mom's an SEI-Si. I wonder how often having a dual as a parent could actually be detrimental if the parent feels starts unconsciously looking to the child to fill their needs/understand them in a way that nobody else in the family (including their spouse) does. @YXPR's post about the EIE mom having difficulty sharing her LSI son with someone else got me thinking about that.

    I mean, you can have a tough relationship with your parent regardless of their type, but it seems like duality could produce a weird triangulation or dependency that might seem great--like being "chosen"--as a child, but produce a lot of issues later.

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    Not exactly sure what my mom's type is other then her being a 1w2 and having strong/valued Si. I'd say we have a very stable but meh relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Nope, my mom's an SEI-Si. I wonder how often having a dual as a parent could actually be detrimental if the parent feels starts unconsciously looking to the child to fill their needs/understand them in a way that nobody else in the family (including their spouse) does. @YXPR's post about the EIE mom having difficulty sharing her LSI son with someone else got me thinking about that.

    I mean, you can have a tough relationship with your parent regardless of their type, but it seems like duality could produce a weird triangulation or dependency that might seem great--like being "chosen"--as a child, but produce a lot of issues later.
    I think my oldest daughter is possibly my dual. She’s 10 so I’m not tied to it, but I find myself relying on her a lot. We have a good relationship but she’s frequently saying, what would you do without me??? My life would be a lot harder, honestly.
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    @Emily: Yes, wondered this too. My mother divulged a similar sentiment to me once, that she became more dependent on me than either of my siblings or her husband and how difficult it was to lose me when I moved out. On the other hand, probably not best for a child to have to take that much responsibility on for a parent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    @Emily: Yes, wondered this too. My mother divulged a similar sentiment to me once, that she became more dependent on me than either of my siblings or her husband and how difficult it was to lose me when I moved out. On the other hand, probably not best for a child to have to take that much responsibility on for a parent.
    @remiges, yes, I could see that being weighty. Any time a parent overly depends on you as a child, it's weighty. I don't know if being a dual makes it easier on you--since what you offer is just being yourself--or worse, like more enmeshed? One of my favorite podcasts, "The Place We Find Ourselves" with Adam Young (deals with mental health, abuse, family) talks about the effects of triangulation in family of origin. Not saying that's your story, of course, it just reminded me of that topic.

    My mom isn't my dual but I often felt like her emotional caretaker because her mental/emotional health weren't great when I was growing up, and nobody else in my immediate family is good with emotions. It's funny how when you see you have the tools for the job you just kind of start doing it, until you realize it's not your job to begin with.

    Eventually I pulled away from her, but for years I felt really guilty at putting that distance between us, like I was doing something wrong even though I was just focusing on my own life and letting her find her own resources to care for herself. Until I realized what had happened, though, I found myself repeating those patterns in other relationships, where I would swoop in to people who were hurting, but then could do an almost immediate 180 and avoid them because I feared being trapped in the same emotional situation.

    I wonder if duality would have made it different...like I would have felt I got more from her in return? I don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    @remiges, yes, I could see that being weighty. Any time a parent overly depends on you as a child, it's weighty. I don't know if being a dual makes it easier on you--since what you offer is just being yourself--or worse, like more enmeshed? One of my favorite podcasts, "The Place We Find Ourselves" with Adam Young (deals with mental health, abuse, family) talks about the effects of triangulation in family of origin. Not saying that's your story, of course, it just reminded me of that topic.
    I listened to the podcast about triangulation. It was quite interesting, as... perhaps in a way, the woman telling the story was her father's dual (perhaps? She seemed to be aware of his moods when he was not, and could manipulate them... sounded like high dimensional Fi... anyhow).

    But you're right, it is weighty. I don't really know, either. In a weird way, I was my mother's emotional caretaker despite the fact she was an ethical type herself. I do not remember being particularly bothered by it, though obviously, I cannot possibly say how it affected me as an adult because I don't know how it would have been otherwise. Something about this topic bothered me so I began to relive my childhood.

    Flashes of memory come up, probably an indication they are significant in some way, though, who knows. I was about 10 years old, maybe - we were coming home from grocery shopping, and she suddenly veered to the side, and broke down crying. This was not usual for her. She asked me why, despite the fact she was always thinking of her family and friends, why it was that she seemed to push people away more than get them closer. I spoke with more authority than perhaps a 10 year old should have, and said "Mom, if they can't see what they are missing in you, then they are stupid and don't deserve you anyway!" She smiled back and said thank you... I was so very proud of myself.

    I can see why people ban themselves and take a break from these forums for a while, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    I listened to the podcast about triangulation. It was quite interesting, as... perhaps in a way, the woman telling the story was her father's dual (perhaps? She seemed to be aware of his moods when he was not, and could manipulate them... sounded like high dimensional Fi... anyhow).

    But you're right, it is weighty. I don't really know, either. In a weird way, I was my mother's emotional caretaker despite the fact she was an ethical type herself. I do not remember being particularly bothered by it, though obviously, I cannot possibly say how it affected me as an adult because I don't know how it would have been otherwise. Something about this topic bothered me so I began to relive my childhood.

    Flashes of memory come up, probably an indication they are significant in some way, though, who knows. I was about 10 years old, maybe - we were coming home from grocery shopping, and she suddenly veered to the side, and broke down crying. This was not usual for her. She asked me why, despite the fact she was always thinking of her family and friends, why it was that she seemed to push people away more than get them closer. I spoke with more authority than perhaps a 10 year old should have, and said "Mom, if they can't see what they are missing in you, then they are stupid and don't deserve you anyway!" She smiled back and said thank you... I was so very proud of myself.

    I can see why people ban themselves and take a break from these forums for a while, lol.
    I thought the same thing, or at least, that she seemed to be an empath. I can relate to her. And I hope my post wasn't too disturbing for you. After I posted it I thought it did seem a little off-topic and maybe oversharing. I've done a lot of processing of my childhood and family so it's less upsetting to me now, but these topics can be very sensitive, and that podcast can be emotionally heavy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    I can see why people ban themselves and take a break from these forums for a while, lol.
    Yup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    I thought the same thing, or at least, that she seemed to be an empath. I can relate to her. And I hope my post wasn't too disturbing for you. After I posted it I thought it did seem a little off-topic and maybe oversharing. I've done a lot of processing of my childhood and family so it's less upsetting to me now, but these topics can be very sensitive, and that podcast can be emotionally heavy.
    No, not at all. I'm actually glad I listened to it, and glad that I forced myself to look carefully at my childhood, even if it was disheartening.

    After really taking a look at how I was when I was younger, and a very well-timed lengthy discussion with my best friend from college (who I type IEE), I realized my mother likely is my dual... and that I severely underestimated how absolutely miserable I have been in my life lately (because, who comes to a forum about personality types who isn't down on themselves? perhaps the psychiatrist and the drugs would have been the better option - nah! would have been too short lived, no?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    No, not at all. I'm actually glad I listened to it, and glad that I forced myself to look carefully at my childhood, even if it was disheartening.

    After really taking a look at how I was when I was younger, and a very well-timed lengthy discussion with my best friend from college (who I type IEE), I realized my mother likely is my dual... and that I severely underestimated how absolutely miserable I have been in my life lately (because, who comes to a forum about personality types who isn't down on themselves? perhaps the psychiatrist and the drugs would have been the better option - nah! would have been too short lived, no?)
    At least you now know the Medicine for your Melancholy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think that conflictors look similar in many ways. My mother is my dual’s conflictor, LSE. I feel grateful in a way to have had this experience, even though she was often very horrible to me as a child.

    My father is my semi-dual. He never really developed his Se enough to “protect” both me and himself against her, mentally, although I was always doing fine in a way physically. I worked to protect us both against the crazy too.
    Correct. Superego makes people adapt qualities of the conflict type. They can even look similar too in certain ways, or dress similarly.

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    Nope, ESI mom. She's my supervisor.

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    This thread has been brought to you by Jim Morrison.

    "Father, I want to kill you.
    Mother, I want to—"

    — Jim Morrison

  32. #32
    Haikus Dr PissBender's Avatar
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    My mom, i'm like 95% sure was SLI. So yeah. It was great the few years I had her in my life. But then I grew up mostly alone so it's not really that she affected me much, I kinda grew as an orphan anyway.

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