Beta & Aggression

[VOGUE PARIS]

“Betas are the aggressive ones.” this is the understanding I have come across about the quadra. Could someone explain to me the aggression of Fe ego types, how it comes out to be? the reason why i ask is... well, i’m autistic. That makes me more blunt and straightforward and even more child like in terms of frustration during communication issues and lack of expression. I’m elegant seeming but I open my mouth and it seems I am considered bold, bolder thanthe typical feminine prototype. It can be very tomboyish at times. Masculine in speech says the men, Know-it-all and lacking in grace says the *cough* tight lipped women. In history I have found myself trying to appease Fe, or perhaps Fi ego women by refining my speech patterns. One way or another, autism is always being aware of the glass wall between you and society and then for girls because of the sociological pressure, figuring out the dynamic.

The question appears in my head if I am SLE who had to be some kind of harmonizer in order to survive, and now I think I’m EIE. I don’t want to overcomplicate this if i don’t have to. As a child I related to Madonna so I’m wondering if there is a dynamic where we tend to try to become our dual, if that’s the case that could explain my confusion. I have a unconscious thing I do with mimicry that I can’t exactly explain how it works or why it happens but, I’m just wondering if I’m fooling myself.

When high drunk and the inhibition is not a problem, I am affectionate and emotionally reciprocating. If I am without anxiety of myself would I become my ego without anxiety or would I naturally become my third block because I seek it and feel free to be it?. I had a problem when younger of taking stuff simply just to feel normal. Normal me is affectionate, it’s not an act, it’s just.. okay the harness is off time to just “be.”

Thanks in advance all
will most likely delete later xx

[Chae]

My understanding of as a lead element is more like, well the aggression comes from their level of interpersonal intrusion, they pick up your state and guide it. You're pretty much forced to react. On top of that, ignoring means that there's a lack of filter sometimes, but not always. The rest of the problem is precisely what you say, personal, and sociologically salient in terms of misogyny.

[VOGUE PARIS]

You're pretty much forced to react.

Hm, that strong of an affect wow okay, so people will always be effected and choose how to respond albeit actively or passively, it's still something they register.
Okay, that pretty much nailed it in the head for me. Thank you @Chae ! you're awesome

My Fi ignoring does make a lot of sense.

[Adam Strange]

@VOGUE PARIS, this may sound weird, but I think that your sentence structure displays a reasonableness, clarity, and complexity that I only associate with EIE's.

[VOGUE PARIS]

Not weird at all, speech patterns is a great indicator @Adam Strange

[GuavaDrunk]

I have an acquaintance who wears really cool clothes in bold colours and good cuts, interesting accessories, etc. I pointed it out a few times ("Cool dress!"), to eventually figure that I should let it go a bit, because they wear cool stuff a bit too often for the frequency of compliments to be comfortable. They are also a bit shy.

During a weekend trip for a joint group activity, I saw them come back from dancing with someone at a social event and, as they sat down next to me, I absentmindedly pointed out that they seem "tired and happy", to which they answered "I just can't hide, can I?"

I've stopped pointing out anything, and tend to consciously not narrate actions expressions etc. I notice people make, because as illustrated above while it's pleasant to be seen, it's unpleasant to be surveilled. I think this kind on ongoing tracking is likely related to strong Fe.

[Hope]

@VOGUE PARIS, this may sound weird, but I think that your sentence structure displays a reasonableness, clarity, and complexity that I only associate with EIE's.

I've noticed this too. I think some ILIs can do the same but not sure.

[falsehope]

The main theme in autistic people is the problem with social skills. It's not only the social behaviour during normal day to day interaction but also understanding the reason why other people are telling you certain things and acting on them.
I think you should focus on developing social skills and other issues you see in yourself will be gone.
For autistic people it's possible to develop social skills but it takes a lot longer and requires hard work and lot of attention.
So for example, at my work, where I have to deal with autistic geniuses it usually happens this way, that when I come to them and try to explain them what they really need to do, it usually takes very long explanation why they should do it. With normal people if I come to tell them something they assume that I am right (social understanding) and try to figure it out. And then when they don't see what they need to do, they come back to me. With autistic people, they don't see the reason why they should do anything straight away and I may be explaining it to them whole week, taking their arguments one by one. And yes, they behave like they know it better. And because of that they appear really dumb, arrogant and inconsiderate.
At my work, I have resolved long term outstanding issues by resolving two autistic geniuses who were really handicapped by their autism. They had skill to work with computers but they lacked social interaction and they have been automatically dismissing everyone with know it better attitude, while in fact they just were inconsiderate of other people and incompetent in social skills.
So based on this real-world example, I would advise you not only to practise day to day interaction with people but also try to not dismiss people with know it better attitiude and try to investigate their issues more deeply, be considerate and and more understanding. Like having more of the respect. Actually listening to people the way you accept what they have to say.
Social interaction is the main function of the brain. It's like basic math. You can't function properly without it, therefore you need to put extra effort into making it better, by slowly thinking other people thru and acting on their wishes so this way you can learn that this can actually work and it's good for you.
Autism is horrible, interacting with these people almost broke me down.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't think Betas are more aggressive than other types, but unhealthy SLEs (mostly the male SLEs lol) and LSIs in the quadra create this misconception.

People have mistaken me (yes k0pyk, even me) for being violent or aggressive too when I'm not, usually it's a huge misunderstanding type of thing and poor beliefs on what being Se valuing is.

Deltas have described me as 'domineering' and 'intimidating' before whereas I think most people kinda view me as soft and victim-y. I think like most people I am truly somewhere in the middle/the real truth is complex, but it's often a matter of how Fe/Se is being perceived.

If backed into a corner, I think anybody will fight (human aggression is more 'natural' based than anything socionic related) - but Betas seem to have this weird reputation for always striking first, sadistically- with absolutely no reason other than 'sadism feels good?' LoL

[Bertrand]

Se is about viewing volition in terms of thresholds, hence its natural to run right up against them. it doesn't have to be purely physical intimidation, Fe has an abstract puffing quality to it. mockery and argumentativeness are Se,as are vieled threats and all other forms of pressure. IEIs are aggressive in the sense that they admit these tactics as fair game generally, but what makes IEI IEI is their subversive tendency to conceal that fact, like a viper

edit: lol Freudian slip violation =/ volition

[Exodus]

Why would this be attributed to quadra values? Se is the "aggressive" element. IEIs have weak and cautious Se and are far less aggressive than SEEs.

[niffer]

Should be both beta and gamma really...

[silke]

Se is about viewing volition in terms of thresholds, hence its natural to run right up against them. it doesn't have to be purely physical intimidation, Fe has an abstract puffing quality to it. mockery and argumentativeness are Se,as are vieled threats and all other forms of pressure. IEIs are aggressive in the sense that they admit these tactics as fair game generally, but what makes IEI IEI is their subversive tendency to conceal that fact, like a viper

And here we have the neurotic Fi feeling the "power of the depreciated object" and spinning it's own subtle combinations. This is an incredibly passive-aggressive and petty reply and you should spend more time introspecting on the topic of how to be less toxic of a person.

Psychological types on the introverted feeling Fi: Whereupon the now egocentric subject comes to feel the power and importance of the depreciated object. Consciousness begins to feel 'what others think'. Naturally, others are thinking, all sorts of baseness, scheming evil, and contriving all sorts of plots, secret intrigues, etc. To prevent this, the subject must also begin to carry out preventive intrigues, to suspect and sound others, to make subtle combinations. Assailed by rumours, he must make convulsive efforts to convert, if possible, a threatened inferiority into a superiority. Innumerable secret rivalries develop, and in these embittered struggles not only will no base or evil means be disdained, but even virtues will be misused and tampered with in order to play the trump card. Such a development must lead to exhaustion. The form of neurosis is neurasthenic rather than hysterical; in the case of women we often find severe collateral physical states, as for instance anæmia and its sequelæ.

[ooo]

@silke Fi my ass, seriously. All he's spewing against Se and Ni is precisely the kind of things he constantly do. Kinda ironic how projection works lol

[ooo]

Why would this be attributed to quadra values? Se is the "aggressive" element. IEIs have weak and cautious Se and are far less aggressive than SEEs.

yes and ESIs are extremely driven to the point they can come out as pushy, but I wouldn't say aggressive that has too bad a connotation and perhaps points to a bad manoeuvring of force (Se), rather than it being a valued function. In the socionics literature there are examples of how Se polrs can result in very unpleasant outbursts under tension.

[chrys]

it's related to neurotransmitters&hormones. I used to be aggressive and verbally uninhibited when I took serotonin.

[Exodus]

yes and ESIs are extremely driven to the point they can come out as pushy, but I wouldn't say aggressive that has too bad a connotation and perhaps points to a bad manoeuvring of force (Se), rather than it being a valued function. In the socionics literature there are examples of how Se polrs can result in very unpleasant outbursts under tension.

Negative attributes aren't always associated with weak functions (although aggressive isn't really that negative a trait depending on the context).

[ooo]

Negative attributes aren't always associated with weak functions (although aggressive isn't really that negative a trait depending on the context).

That's true, each function comes with its own disadvantages, too much "force" (Se) can result into aggressiveness, but if I can't deal with force in a situation that requires it, chances are I will misuse it, which can result in all kinds of things... I was going by socionics literature anyway. Weak functions can indeed bring negative traits as well.

[velveteen]

Is violently caring for people Fe valuing?

[Chthonic Daydream]

Is violently caring for people Fe valuing?

HEY, YOU! Get your ass over here so that I can SHOWER the FUCK out of you with LOVE AND SUPPORT like not even your PARENTS ever have!!!

[Spermatozoa]

HEY, YOU! Get your ass over here so that I can SHOWER the FUCK out of you with LOVE AND SUPPORT like not even your PARENTS ever have!!!

Fe translated into Fi: I want to have sex. You can abuse me sexually. Take me in whatever way you wish, I care not. I have already foreseen that through your lust I can remake you into my servant. So come at me Chad/Chadina. Smother me with your feral hunger to breed. Your passion will guide a light through the maze of my soul, for with you I can forge a work greater than either of us alone.

etc etc ...

[Chthonic Daydream]

Special thanks to my translator, Cuiv.

/takes a bow

[Spermatozoa]

Special thanks to my translator, Cuiv.

/takes a bow

Before I go to bed, I intend to make a few pussies on the other side of the world wet. But do carry on.

[Chthonic Daydream]

Why would you, it's already "Land down under" there, isn't it?

[The Reality Denialist]

Vera Stratievskaya's profiles are good source for my PoLR hits.

In more general sense very serious PoLR hit for me is just state of anguish where I can't think clearly at all. It is very uncomfortable state. I freeze internally. I'd imagine it is external outburst for introverted IE's.
Basic PoLR hit is just "ugh".

Maybe I should feel sorry for Fi egos?

[velveteen]

HEY, YOU! Get your ass over here so that I can SHOWER the FUCK out of you with LOVE AND SUPPORT like not even your PARENTS ever have!!!

[Spermatozoa]

Why would you, it's already "Land down under" there, isn't it?

I know that there is no welcome for me in the south, only hard work and a death without reward.

The land is bare and easily disturbed; it is a flea infested desert and will not yield to man. Never is it moist and lush with vegetation.

[Muddy]

Everyone knows that beta consist only of steroid taking, wife beating, child abusing, puppy kicking males and their IEI victims. That and of course ******.

[Pallas]

Negative attributes aren't always associated with weak functions (although aggressive isn't really that negative a trait depending on the context).

BE
AGGRESSIVE
BE BE
AGGRESSIVE
A-G-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E AGGRESSIVE

[Exodus]

@Pallas Think about someone playing football, "That was an aggressive play by such-and-such"

[Pallas]

@Pallas Think about someone playing football, "That was an aggressive play by such-and-such"

That's what I just said.

BE
AGGRESSIVE
BE BE
AGGRESSIVE
A-G-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E AGGRESSIVE

[The Reality Denialist]

[niffer]

I actually agree with this lol. It could be pretty accurate.

[nickelslick]

it's related to neurotransmitters&hormones. I used to be aggressive and verbally uninhibited when I took serotonin.

You took... serotonin? How'd you do that? I can confirm the behavioral changes that come with increased serotonin levels though, I took a serotonin reuptake inhibitor for six months and my behavior was more SLE than LII. Girls liked me more. Pfffffft.

Interesting, very interesting.

[The Reality Denialist]

You took... serotonin? How'd you do that? I can confirm the behavioral changes that come with increased serotonin levels though, I took a serotonin reuptake inhibitor for six months and my behavior was more SLE than LII. Girls liked me more. Pfffffft.

Interesting, very interesting.

Yes, it might do that. I took SNRI for couple of weeks. I was more fidgety than usual, smiled like crazy [more than normal] and laughed lot as well, I couldn't really sit still and apparently I had very lively eyes. Definitely there was more aggression but not really towards people.

[Spermatozoa]

Yes, it might do that. I took SNRI for couple of weeks. I was more fidgety than usual, smiled like crazy [more than normal] and laughed lot as well, I couldn't really sit still and apparently I had very lively eyes. Definitely there was more aggression but not really towards people.

When I took SNRIs I felt so sleepy that I could hardly move. The few times I managed to arouse myself I wandered from room to room like a drunk man, unable to balance. To make matters worse, my sex drive completely disappeared.

I value the ability to perform upon command. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[niffer]

Yes, it might do that. I took SNRI for couple of weeks. I was more fidgety than usual, smiled like crazy [more than normal] and laughed lot as well, I couldn't really sit still and apparently I had very lively eyes. Definitely there was more aggression but not really towards people.

The SNRI that I took had this effect for me.

However, I’m pretty sure the 2 different kinds of SSRIs I took before it made me very tired and more depressive / no sex drive like how @Spermatozoa described. Medication works differently for everyone.

[Rebelondeck]

It depends how one defines aggression. Ejs tend to be the ones that can be reactive taking things personally and then quickly get into someone's face. Ips are even more reactive but because they're more defensive, they may not appear as aggressive but they certainly can dole out retribution. Eps can be very aggressive to achieve their goals but it isn't as personal for them although they often make a public display of it and like to be praised for it. Ijs' aggression is not obvious, happening in more of a subversive, planned way. Aggression is human nature and not reserved for Beta's; even the most passive with the right reason will demonstrate it. Fe-types tend to boil more on relational issues and usually are in sync with the mood in the room......

a.k.a. I/O

[chrys]

You took... serotonin? How'd you do that? I can confirm the behavioral changes that come with increased serotonin levels though, I took a serotonin reuptake inhibitor for six months and my behavior was more SLE than LII. Girls liked me more. Pfffffft.

Interesting, very interesting.

Ehh I think it was Prozac maybe. Back then when I used I also had everybody like and love me, it felt like the whole school knew me. Then the next year I was off the SSRI and in Freshman year I avoided everyone again and tried to remain low.

[Aramas]

Every person has his own idea of what aggression is. There's nice Betas and mean ones, just like with all the other quadras. Extroverted functions (IEs in Socionics terms) are more constant in their aggressions, and introverted functions are more extreme. Everyone is somehow aggressive. That's survival. There's nothing exceptionally aggressive about the Beta quadra.