ESI - EII Dynamic (ISFj-INFj)

[PinKDiGiT18]

I have a lot of ESIs in my life. Never successfully built a close relationship with any of them.

I’ll take an account from my most recent experience with an ESI-Se romantic interest.

He started off courting me in very normal aggressor-like fashion, persistent contact, lots of bravado on his accomplishments...then when things started to get real, he ghosted. He came back and ghosted two more times before things ended.

If I analyze it socionically, we both felt a little weird about each other but there was a lot of attraction. He was very flighty, often made promises he couldn’t keep, and resented it when I called him out for it (Ne PoLR). He would egg me on in Se things, which I didn’t mind too much (I grew up around a lot of Se) but of course felt my limitations in. I thought we were a good pair but he either didn’t think the same or wasn’t comfortable with our dynamic.

[Lolita]

I think due to Se, ESI comes off harsh and more overtly judgmental and they’ll use it against EII even though they’re kindreds. I do sense that ESI treats EII like a dunce because of their hatred of Ne but EII is repulsed by Se so they may unwittingly treat ESI as if they’re dirty.


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[Beautiful sky]

My ESI aunt and I have a good relationship however she’s a neat freak and I am not. She’s also pushy and demanding and I am not. She’s different than myself, much more of a disciplinarian. I am a cuddly lovey dovey person. I want to exist to peacefully with her but she can’t help it to constantly define me with “you are too much of a softie” and pushes me “leave your daughter here and go fight for your country” she loves to tell people what to do directly whereas I am more like “let’s do x together “

[Adam Strange]

My ESI aunt and I have a good relationship however she’s a neat freak and I am not. She’s also pushy and demanding and I am not. She’s different than myself, much more of a disciplinarian. I am a cuddled lovey dovey person. I want to exist to peacefully with her but she can’t help it to constantly define me with ds like “you are too much of a softie” and pushes me “leave your daughter here and go fight for your country” she loves to tell people what to do directly whereas I am more like “let’s do c together “

Kaffirstan for the Kaffirstanis!

I've always been fascinated by people who want *you* to go fight some war for them, while they stay home and *manage* things.

Give her a rifle and a one way plane ticket to what ever region she wants to liberate.

I wish, I wish, that could be done to Dick Cheney, military Hawk and draft-dodger.

[Beautiful sky]

Kaffirstan for the Kaffirstanis!

I've always been fascinated by people who want *you* to go fight some war for them, while they stay home and *manage* things.

Give her a rifle and a one way plane ticket to what ever region she wants to liberate.

I wish, I wish, that could be done to Dick Cheney, military Hawk and draft-dodger.

Armenia

[spacious]

"ISFPs judge people quickly; INFPs are too distracted to care." - comment in an MBTI facebook group that i read years ago and stuck with me.

My EII friend, a classmate in our grad program, got me into meditation, as well as personality typing; I've been a consistent, reliable presence for her as she's dealt with chronic health issues that have been difficult to diagnose and seek treatment for. It's taken a while for me to figure out the sort of, set point in our relationship dynamic. Seems like sometimes I hold back or am unsure of what sides of myself to show. She shows care and affection in possibly more indirect ways than i do (cue my Ne polr). She made me a beautiful necklace with crystals that are thought to support and welcome love, connection and healing (intentions/values I share for the new year), as part of her homemade Christmas presents for her loved ones this year... now that is concrete enough to really get through to me! hah. pretty amazing, the creativity and deep intentions behind her gift-making.

I'm still figuring this dynamic out. Spending more in-person time together in the future, given that we now live in different cities, will be nice

[FreelancePoliceman]

"ISFPs judge people quickly; INFPs are too distracted to care." - comment in an MBTI facebook group that i read years ago and stuck with me.

My EII friend, a classmate in our grad program, got me into meditation, as well as personality typing; I've been a consistent, reliable presence for her as she's dealt with chronic health issues that have been difficult to diagnose and seek treatment for. It's taken a while for me to figure out the sort of, set point in our relationship dynamic. Seems like sometimes I hold back or am unsure of what sides of myself to show. She shows care and affection in possibly more indirect ways than i do (cue my Ne polr). She made me a necklace with crystals that are thought to support and welcome love, connection and healing (intentions/values I share for the new year), as part of her homemade Christmas presents for her loved ones this year... now that is concrete enough to really get through to me! hah. pretty amazing, the creativity and deep intentions behind her gift-making.

I'm still figuring this dynamic out. Spending more in-person time together in the future, given that we now live in different cities, will be nice

My experience of EIIs is certainly not that they don't judge people. They can be more easygoing in a certain way (well, I guess that way is not being Se ego), but EIIs definitely do judge IME, often in ways that seem unfair or arbitrary to Fe valuers. ESI "judgement" I actually find easier to negotiate with/come to terms with. ESIs at worst seem to want to be left alone and you can come to some agreement whereby you don't bother each other. EIIs' Fi is like some twisted inversion of SLE Se in that it refuses terms or negotiation; the EII just does what he wants and everyone else just has to put up with it.

[spacious]

My experience of EIIs is certainly not that they don't judge people. They can be more easygoing in a certain way (well, I guess that way is not being Se ego), but EIIs definitely do judge IME, often in ways that seem unfair or arbitrary to Fe valuers. ESI "judgement" I actually find easier to negotiate with/come to terms with. ESIs at worst seem to want to be left alone and you can come to some agreement whereby you don't bother each other. EIIs' Fi is like some twisted inversion of SLE Se in that it refuses terms or negotiation; the EII just does what he wants and everyone else just has to put up with it.

Freelance, thanks for adding nuance to my quotation of a surely overly simplistic contrast made by someone. (my quotation of which perhaps belonged in the EIIs being judgmental thread, but I didn't have much to say overall on the topic...)

[Beautiful sky]

My cousin’s son is esi
We were at a party yesterday. It’s an ethnic thing to place objects in front of children so from them they can choose one that will identify their career fate. His nephew chose a paint brush and that signifies being an artist. He, the ESI commented to me “he chose a paint brush. He’s going to be an artist. They’re no money in that.” He made a very realistic Se comment to which I responded in my usual Ne way “anything is possible. There have been some wealthy artists. It’s all in how you market yourself.” He look at this perspective or possibly with “yeah that’s true.” But he also lacked optimism in his tone. @Emily

[Elmira]

One of the most favorite friendships I’ve had was with an EII in high school.

It began on a rough patch. My first memory of her is in the first week of school where the substitute teacher was struggling in her name. Instead of clarifying her name in a clear and audible manner, she whispered it with her head lowered. Repeatedly. She proceeded to get redder in the face every single time she had to repeat her name. Thought it was attention-seeking behavior and I had written her off as someone not to talk to. Eventually we became friends when she kept talking to me during another class, as if she was oblivious to my curtness. One day she made a comment on the relationship dynamic between another pair of classmates. She noted the exact thing I inwardly noticed. I felt like I finally found someone who saw “the red string ties between everyone,” at least that’s how I wrote it in my journal.

She was soft-spoken, unexpectedly peculiar, and carried her heart on her sleeve. Liked to share her personal thoughts and experiences, never hid her emotional vulnerability. She had odd interests and a whimsical sense of humor.

She dressed rather frumpy. Often wore sweatpants or track pants with dull-colored shirts with the same pair of running sneakers. Towards the end of the year, she started picking up on my preppy style.
Would make herself appear as small as possible.

Very calm, feminine friendship. Lots of giggling, inside jokes, making up words, compliments, and heartfelt conversations.

Sometimes we would disagree on how to treat rude individuals or people that just didn’t get along with us.My solution was to minimize interactions with them.
To my surprise, I would receive a look of contempt from the EII.
Later after recognizing these looks, I started letting her handle rude people and found I didn’t like her method. She wanted to “reform” them and teach them the better way. I thought this was a very condescending approach, because it assumes she knows better than them. She reminded me of those missionary people who had to “civilize” unenlightened people.
Overtime, the condescending, “you don’t know better” did start to make me question if she perceived me as an ignorant cavewoman too. By the time I started wondering about this, the school year ended. I switched schools in the next fall and was given a new phone over the summer, so I lost contact with her.

[Beautiful sky]

Some more things

My junior high best friend was ESI. I loved her care free loving manner. She was stronger than myself and used to defend me. We single handedly wrote the school paper together and made a good team. She sexually developed way faster than me getting pregnant and having kids by high school and the same with my ESI coworker. Overall we are different in communication style. She tends to hold on to wrong doing or people who have wronged her way past their expectations date. I try to tell her to let go and focus on good things. She experiences anxiety way more than I do too.

[Elmira]

My high school French teacher was also an EII. She came off quite distant at first and always had this far-away look to her.
Her classroom felt like she was always on the verge of leaving her job the next day, even though when I attended the school she had already been working there for a few years. The walls were barren and the seating arrangements were either too close which left the room feeling crowded and flushed or too far away which made the room feel empty. Her desk was empty with the exception of the stacked piles of worksheets from the earlier periods.
She didn’t like to give lectures. She looked awkward standing in front of the class and only did so a handful of times a year for a short period of time. She would hunch over and never project her voice. She never did fully talk to the whole class, she would name drop as if she was talking to only one student.
She dressed rather plainly. The colors she wore were unflattering. She always wore a dull blouse with dark jeans with the same pair of black flats. She would tuck the blouse in, which made the appearance of her legs being awkwardly short, but left some part of the blouse unfashionably untucked, which left her looking frumpy. She didn’t wear jewelry. The jeans were always the wrong length and style. Her hair was simply brushed and let down with a middle part.

She liked to talk about her personal experiences with students, often using her personal experiences to advise students. She had no problems entering people's private conversations. If she saw a student say a harmful comment to their friend, she would lecture them. Not in “don’t say that,” but “reconsider when you do say those types of things.” When students would disagree with her lecturing, she would sigh and say things along the line of “you’ll understand one day.” If they continued to joke and disagree, she would turn to me with a certain look and say “Elmira gets what I’m talking about.” Even though I hadn’t made a comment and avoided eye contact the entire class period, she was still certain I would understand where she was coming from, and I always inwardly did.
Was averse to asserting herself, demanding, disciplining, and taking control. If students were talking over her on those rare moments she lectured, she would never make a move to stop them, instead just continue her lecture as if anyone could hear her. When the class got rowdy, she would play ostrich. She wouldn’t look at the rowdy students and continued talking to one of the other students about her life from her desk in the corner, eventually I became the designated student she would talk to when this occurred. I noticed that when the class became rowdy or a student was getting overly aggressive, she would nervously start rambling about her husband. She’ll talk about how her husband handled a conflict with his coworker naively, how she worried that him being the main authoritative figure and her having the permissive role in the household was straining his relationship with their two children, how she admired his diligence, how she appreciated him confronting the nagging neighbor in her defense, and other things.

Lacked a sense of humor. When students made jokes and tried to engage her, she would always miss the punchline. English was her third language, but she didn’t laugh or make jokes herself very often.
“I don’t get it,” she said that frequently.
She sometimes gave seating arrangements based on who she thought would go well together.

[Averroes]

I dated an EII for a while and wished she was more fun and less modest. I always felt like I had to be on my best behavior with her and couldn’t tell jokes or flirt the way I would’ve liked. Innocuous things like her taste in clothes, her rituals around food and sugary drinks, etc. became icks for me, especially since I have a terrible relationship with food.

one time when we were in Miami and I was already checked out she wanted me to run to the store at midnight to get her a soda because she felt like she absolutely “needed” it to complement her dinner and I thought it was kind of ridiculous

[Lord Pixel]

I dated an ESI girl that liked to burp in my ear as a way of flirting. Needless to say I was very confused.