Te PoLR (Clarification, please)

[717495]

I picture a person with POLR-Te going around, doing pointless things, without knowing how pointless they were when doing them, and this kind of information looks overly critical in their eyes. I see laziness and vagueness. Some one who can not be swayed by providing a sequence of logic. Void of knowledge.

This is of course in its more unfortunate stages.

[Satan]

Fixed.

Classic.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Te PoLR - the inefficiency and incorrect facts of this discussion.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

The lack of good answers in this thread irritates me as well, but unfortunately it's based on lack of knowledge, and not lack of Te.
I'd love to understand Te PoLR better, but this thread doesn't help, I agree.

I have worked with some INFp's and ISFp's in some high Te dominated environments, so for myself all I can think of is to post my own experiences of this. I'll try and post about it later but it would probably be a big post and I can't see the effort put in matching any gained results!

It would be good if Ryu or Smilingeyes posted, because I think with them being ESTj, they would be better at describing Te PoLR from a more 'PoLR' hit pov. Of course any ENTj's could do it as well!

[Creepy-male]

@MP: Wow, my LIE dad is *just like that*. The LIE woman you described, I mean. Socionics works?

[Warlord]

My point is that Te PoLR is not only about an INABILITY to act efficiently a certain way, it's just as much about totally not APPRECIATING that way of doing things. It just isn't efficient (for us).

Yep, that applies to all PoLRs. Part of the reason why people aren't good with their PoLR is that they don't even want to be good at it. And they don't appriciate people who are good at the PoLR.

[717495]

Yep, that applies to all PoLRs. Part of the reason why people aren't good with their PoLR is that they don't even want to be good at it. And they don't appriciate people who are good at the PoLR.

That's actually quite true, for really understanding people too.

When you hear Te-PoLR, think very non-Obama.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I say it for the second time today and I'd like to explain a bit: efficiency is a Ti trait, not Te. I'm talking of what I consider to be the most obvious meaning of the term.
You are thinking about profitability - earning as much as possible with an investment, while efficiency is obtaining something definite with the lowest waste of resources or in the least time. Their differences are very important when talking about Socionics, imo.
Te's usually appreciate all-rounders: any situation not handled, even when it was not addressed by the attributions, is considered a failure. In Ti eyes, a mission whose initial objectives are accomplished is considered a success, even if contextual opportunities are wasted.

Not sure about this. A common quote of an ESTj boss I have is, "I can do that in fifteen minutes". He is efficency focused, but.. ENTj's I know don't understand efficiency. Keeping in mind that ISTp's are the masters of efficiency, i'll say something i've mentioned before, perhaps it is Si that's related to the efficiency too.

About Te PoLR, these are my conclusions, although ppl may contradict me if some things fall in other categories, too. Te PoLR:
- do not like responsibility. They try do do something but they won't guarantee. Their guarantee is merely a greater wish/desire to fulfill the job.
- prefer specific tasks. They don't want to know every detail of a business, that would mean they should be responsible (see above).
- avoid explanation for their actions.
- need private space. Sacred private space, which is not intended to anything. They possess things which are not intended to anything as they don't assign a purpose for every belonging.
- are not planners, they prefer to live the moment and improvise (yes, IEI too)
-

I think this is pretty good.

Mimosa, i'm still digesting your reply. For short thing, I think a lot of LIE's are rude, maybe it is to do with their HA, trying to have authority when the have none.

[FDG]

You are thinking about profitability - earning as much as possible with an investment, while efficiency is obtaining something definite with the lowest waste of resources or in the least time.

That's nonsensical. The rate of return is what is important in an investment, and that is given both by lack of expenditure and profitability. Let's try not to be whacks, please.

[FDG]

Not sure about this. A common quote of an ESTj boss I have is, "I can do that in fifteen minutes". He is efficency focused, but.. ENTj's I know don't understand efficiency. Keeping in mind that ISTp's are the masters of efficiency, i'll say something i've mentioned before, perhaps it is Si that's related to the efficiency too.

I think this is pretty good.

Mimosa, i'm still digesting your reply. For short thing, I think a lot of LIE's are rude, maybe it is to do with their HA, trying to have authority when the have none.

Let's not start with the LIE-bashing just because you had a disagreement with Expat, please.

[717495]

What is going on? isn't about efficiency, it's a field function focused on security. Second of all it's static, so it isn't concerned about efficiency. It is concerned about what is logical, be it efficient or not.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Let's not start with the LIE-bashing just because you had a disagreement with Expat, please.

Let's keep your personal opinions to yourself, or at least seperate them from fact, esp when they're wrong.

[FDG]

Let's keep your personal opinions to yourself, or at least seperate them from fact, esp when they're wrong.

You're not being objective here, sorry.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

You're not being objective here, sorry.

OK, maybe you are right dude, although..I don't think you are tbh! I've encountered a lot of ENTj's who strike me as insecure and need to, imo, needlessly establish power, when it's not actually needed. Maybe you could contribute your thoughts to Te PoLR here, rather than us debating something else?

[717495]

To a personality like the ENTp, aka efficiency of actions, technical matters etc. is obvious. It is one of their strengths. Where the INTj is more ignoring and annoyed by pursuits.

[shakealittle]

My interpretation is that Te is more process-based. Ti is more ideal-orientated.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Mimosa what would you say your weaknesses were? From what I have seen all you have mentioned so far is that you don't like doing repetitive things, I apologise if I have missed anything.

I presume that which you are not good at would be a pointer to your PoLR. I know that it's the case for me.

[FDG]

I also personally think that mimosa is an ENFp.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Wittmont]

Ephemeros, I know Mimosa personally very well. And there is no doubt she is Ni Fe in her ego block. In her posts she gives examples how she is using Ni in her overall approach. You cannot just disregard that in order to make a pet typing of her.

[Gilly]

Mimosa is beta nf, ephemdros is sle. I have spoken.

[Lotus]

ephemeros is trivial, annoying, and impossible to have a discussion with—let alone an actual argument. He drags things out to the point where his objective is more about winning than actually being right. It's really stupid. If he's SLE, I'll be EII.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Gilly]

Umm, need I say more? SLE.

[Jimbean]

Everyone is beta according to Gilly.

[Aramas]

I'll illustrate what Te PoLR is:

Suppose you're a man in a relationship with a xEI and there is a beautiful and friendly woman in a store you visit frequently. Since you're not made of stone, you give her a few "dirty looks", but nothing with serious intentions. After you get out you forget about her and continue with your life.

For some reason you end up in the store some day and you get caught by your wife talking to this woman. She seems a little upset and both of you return to home. Once there, your wife starts to give you the cold shoulder and starts to give you indirect complaints about this woman.

(The above is just a context. Here is where the Te PoLR manifests itself.)

You tell her that you find this woman attractive (Te), but that you didn't really think anything more about it. There are beautiful women everywhere, after all (Te).

Now, your wife takes the Te thrown wrongly and she starts to scream that you're a damn cheater and that if you don't want to be with her you may as well just leave. You start to calm her down but she's convinced that you're interested in this woman (Fe).

Several days of turmoil pass until you promise your wife you're not going to visit the store anymore.

Point: xEI trust their impressions (Fe) while at the same time disregarding objective evidence (Te). Here the problem is that xEI tend to "read between lines" (Fe) when there is nothing to read (Te). Claiming that you find a woman attractive is simply a fact (Te), but an xEI will misinterpret such fact as a confirmation that you are in pursuit or this woman (Fe).

Conclusion: Te PoLR is the tendency to read "hidden meanings" in actions or words that are meant to be impersonal.

EDIT: I might add, that xEI are inneficient/not productive is just a manifestation of unvalued Te, no Te PoLR in particular. xEI are simply not interesting in performing activities that do not hold personal significance to themselves or their valued ones.

Reading between the lines has nothing to do with Fe. People of all types and in all quadras read between the lines, because lots of people are deceptive, and there's not always evidence of a crime, and waiting for evidence can put you in a bad position. I've read stuff like this for a while, and it's garbage. Fe is not reading between the lines. That's fundamental to human nature.

[squark]

This thread is a mess.

[golden]

That mikemex story sounds like several POLRs rolled into one fat sad ball, but none of it is Te polr actually

[mikemex]

That mikemex story sounds like several POLRs rolled into one fat sad ball, but none of it is Te polr actually

LOL. I did read it again and it's not that bad.

Easier example: SEIs gaining weight. They often can't accurately determine what they eat, relying on subjective impressions instead. "I didn't eat that much.".

[Sol]

SEIs gaining weight. They often can't accurately determine what they eat, relying on subjective impressions instead. "I didn't eat that much.".

They just do not care! Do not think about the weight, but are concentrated on emotions and sensations they get from the food.
You'd was correct if they planed the meal by calories badly - that Te. Weak nonvalued here is in ignoring, not in bad using.
While "I didn't eat that much" may go as the rationalization or false justification, as they did not thought at all about the consequences. And then "oops" and greetings to new strict diet time. The same is with ESE. Lesser with other T Si - those gain the redundant weight when think this as not important.

[consentingadult]

LOL. I did read it again and it's not that bad.

Easier example: SEIs gaining weight. They often can't accurately determine what they eat, relying on subjective impressions instead. "I didn't eat that much.".

Bad example, because it has been demonstrated that most people cannot accurately determine what they eat. It's an important cause for overweight. Lots of people who overeat are not aware that they are e.g. snacking throughout the day. Thus, you example is not type-related.

[golden]

Thinking carefully about the SEIs I’ve observed, nothing looking like a Te polr was all that obvious. But I was around one with an LSE on hand sometimes and it was like oil and water.

The LSE would look at SEI and never understand the point of what she was doing. The point of her artwork, the point of how she did leisure time. They both would be happy to make something or have a bowl of ice cream, but SEI looked like she was moving from pleasure to pleasure, hedonistic and “eccentric” (his word) from LSE pov.

LSE would make deliberate, discrete time chunks for such pleasures, even announcing their beginning and end. “And now for some ice cream.” “The snack was a success. Back to work.” To SEI this was hopelessly wooden and “square” (her word).

SEI can sink into what I see as a world of extreme smooth, continuous detail. An example is an SEI verbally giving me directions to a fairly nearby house. (Pre-smart phones.) Every little twist and turn was natural for her to include. I had to say the directions back to her eliminating much more than half of the information to make the instructions usable. I did make her uncomfortable when I did this.

Good luck trying to impose your organizational procedures on SEI. If the closet is arranged by color and you want it done by category, it prob just won’t ever, ever happen.

[Adam Strange]

An SEI asked me for detailed advice on how to prepare a powerpoint document for presentation, which surprised the hell out of me. We've been working together for about six years and she's never asked me anything technical.
I asked her for details, very aware that every word we exchange brings us closer to the eventual point where she can't stand me, and she gave me a very vague description. I started to describe how to do what she wanted, how I would do it, but an expression came over her face like I was telling her that her children would have to be sacrificed on the alter at midnight. She quickly said she could figure it out herself, I said I was sure she could, and I exited her office as quickly as possible.

[golden]

An SEI asked me for detailed advice on how to prepare a powerpoint document for presentation, which surprised the hell out of me. We've been working together for about six years and she's never asked me anything technical.
I asked her for details, very aware that every word we exchange brings us closer to the eventual point where she can't stand me, and she gave me a very vague description. I started to describe how to do what she wanted, how I would do it, but an expression came over her face like I was telling her that her children would have to be sacrificed on the alter at midnight. She quickly said she could figure it out herself, I said I was sure she could, and I exited her office as quickly as possible.

When I’ve successfully given advice or directions to an SEI, I believe I was telling them how to think about the problem or issue, in theory, rather than giving them a list of concrete steps to follow. Even when prepping an SEI for a specific exam, I pointed out the principles she could employ to succeed. (She made an A.)

[The Reality Denialist]

From what I have seen: some SEI's are quick to get something when something is told like: "it also works there..."

As for few posts back: For some reason supervisee's creative is the most pointless thing there is...

[consentingadult]

My GF (SEI) was just explaining yesterday how in high school the math teacher would explain something, and then her classmates would bend over their books and do the math exercises, while she just was flabbergasted because she neither understood what it was being explained nor what it was the teacher expected of her.

The problem here is not so much a lack of mathematic insight (Ti), but a lack of talent for executing a mathematic exercise: she does not grab the steps involved in solving a mathematic problem. For example, a simple addition of two numbers, which you and I would solve by visualizing the steps involved to arrive at the outcome, is a problem for her. She just can't visualize it.

But having known my GF for 11 years now, I don't really think it is a lack of talent or skill that is at the foundation of a Te-PoLR. The core issue is that SEIs simply don't see a valid reason for doing such stuff, and thus are not inclined to make an effort in the first place, lazy asses that they are. Surely if you have led a leisurely life for 54 years and never seen value in adding numbers, it makes perfect sense that you have never moved beyond the oral phase. Which is why she is now going in therapy...

And this is how it works for all PoLRs ;-)

[Adam Strange]

Wait a minute. Therapy for PoLR? Si-PoLR too? Does this mean my next shrink needs to moonlight as an interior decorator?

[The Reality Denialist]

On scale 4-10 I have turned one 4/10 into 8/10 in math.


Anyways, I'd say that it is important to learn to imagine the problem. OTOH note to myself: it is also important to read assignments throughout.



There are people who can not grasp following question but many SEIS's can: We have infinite amount of time and therefore we suppose that we have infinite amount of lotteries (where you have a change of winning) in which you participate. You also live forever. How many lotteries are you going to win?

[consentingadult]

Wait a minute. Therapy for PoLR? Si-PoLR too? Does this mean my next shrink needs to moonlight as an interior decorator?

It's like a said before: it all depends on how psychologically mature you are. So my recommendation to an LIE would be: if you wear your suit for half a year before changing it, then you should worry ;-)