ESTp or ESTj?

[QueenTiger666]

Hey guys, so I'm debating whether I'm ESTp or ESTj. Here's some stuff about me:

- I'm pretty blunt and I tell it as it is
- My friends have said they admire how I do not let anyone walk all over me
- I hate incompetency
- I can be quite tactical and strategic- I enjoy chess for this reason
- I am very realistic (NF types sometimes interpret this as pessimism)
- I don't like people who can't take a joke
- I like being controversial
- At times I am guilty of "black and white thinking"
- I have always been popular at school - I'm the queen bee/ the Regina George.
- My IxFx family members have referred to me as "nasty" and "horrible"
- I am often the first to take action in a situation, I'm not one to sit around and moan if I have made no attempt to solve the issue
- I don't like sports
- I am a natural leader, I am able to organise people and be like "you do this, you do that"
- I have been labelled by people as "narcissistic", "histrionic" and "sociopathic"
- I'm either enneagram 3 or 8, and my tritype is definitely 378: The Mover and Shaker
- Ideally, I'd like to go into a career in journalism - preferably online
- I am really assertive, quite confident and dominant in social situations. I have no issue approaching people and talking to them.
- I will break rules to get what I want
- I often don't really know and understand how I'm feeling

If you need any more info, just ask

[Beautiful sky]

ESFJ

[Beautiful sky]

Fe

his·tri·on·ic
/ˌhistrēˈänik/Submit
adjective
1.
overly theatrical or melodramatic in character or style.
"a histrionic outburst"
synonyms: melodramatic, theatrical, affected, dramatic, exaggerated, actorly, actressy, stagy, showy, artificial, overacted, overdone, unnatural, mannered, stilted, unreal; More
noun
1.
exaggerated dramatic behavior designed to attract attention.
"discussions around the issue have been based as much in histrionics as in history"
synonyms: dramatics, drama, theatrics, theatricality, tantrums; More
2.
ARCHAIC
an actor.

[Bento]

Fe

his·tri·on·ic
/ˌhistrēˈänik/Submit
adjective
1.
overly theatrical or melodramatic in character or style.
"a histrionic outburst"
synonyms: melodramatic, theatrical, affected, dramatic, exaggerated, actorly, actressy, stagy, showy, artificial, overacted, overdone, unnatural, mannered, stilted, unreal; More
noun
1.
exaggerated dramatic behavior designed to attract attention.
"discussions around the issue have been based as much in histrionics as in history"
synonyms: dramatics, drama, theatrics, theatricality, tantrums; More
2.
ARCHAIC
an actor.

jesus

Fe is generally associated with the ability to recognize and convey (i.e. make others experience) passions, moods, and emotional states, generate excitement, liveliness, and feelings, get emotionally involved in activities and emotionally involve others, recognize and describe emotional interaction between people and groups, and build a sense of community and emotional unity.

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...overted_ethics

[Beautiful sky]

jesus

Fe is generally associated with the ability to recognize and convey (i.e. make others experience) passions, moods, and emotional states, generate excitement, liveliness, and feelings, get emotionally involved in activities and emotionally involve others, recognize and describe emotional interaction between people and groups, and build a sense of community and emotional unity.

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...overted_ethics

Go read Jung then come talk to me

[Bento]

Go read Jung then come talk to me

princess

[Eliza Thomason]

I'm getting ESTp! Particularly because of the parts I will bold/color below, and make some comments in green:

Hey guys, so I'm debating whether I'm ESTp or ESTj. Here's some stuff about me:

- I'm pretty blunt and I tell it as it is
- My friends have said they admire how I do not let anyone walk all over me
- I hate incompetency
- I can be quite tactical and strategic- I enjoy chess for this reason
- I am very realistic (NF types sometimes interpret this as pessimism)
- I don't like people who can't take a joke
- I like being controversial
- At times I am guilty of "black and white thinking"
- I have always been popular at school - I'm the queen bee/ the Regina George.
- My IxFx family members have referred to me as "nasty" and "horrible" (I am thinking particularly INFj and ISFp might label you thus, in response to a bold ESTp assertion)
- I am often the first to take action in a situation, I'm not one to sit around and moan if I have made no attempt to solve the issue
- I don't like sports (my ESTp son did not particularly go in for team sports but he loved being part of the wrestling team which is more a team of individual endeavors)
- I am a natural leader, I am able to organise people and be like "you do this, you do that"
- I have been labelled by people as "narcissistic", "histrionic" and "sociopathic" (maybe these three labels just because you are bold and upfront?)
- I'm either enneagram 3 or 8, and my tritype is definitely 378: The Mover and Shaker
- Ideally, I'd like to go into a career in journalism - preferably online
- I am really assertive, quite confident and dominant in social situations. I have no issue approaching people and talking to them.
- I will break rules to get what I want
- I often don't really know and understand how I'm feeling

If you need any more info, just ask

Looks very SLE to me!

[Jaqen]

ENFp is my guess. You might want to work on all those shitty Dark Triade traits.

ESTps are fine with incompetency, as long as other things are golden.

[Sol]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1096450

[WVBRY]

All that sounds SLE and not LSE, if those are the only two options.

From your profile:

I'm a massive bitch, be my workers!

Sounds ego to me.

You come off more work and task oriented and intellectual than gamma SF types, so I say beta ST. Even your username sounds like something SLE would choose.

I think SLE fits you pretty well. Alternatively, I could see LSI.

[QueenTiger666]

All that sounds SLE and not LSE, if those are the only two options.

From your profile:



Sounds ego to me.

You come off more work and task oriented and intellectual than gamma SF types, so I say beta ST. Even your username sounds like something SLE would choose.

I think SLE fits you pretty well. Alternatively, I could see LSI.

Hmm, why particularly Beta ST?

[WVBRY]

@queentiger

It seems pretty clear to me you have ego, which narrows it down to four types.

Based on those four types, the two beta ST types seem to make more sense since you seem more oriented towards questions of work rather than relationships.

I don't know though, just an impression based on the data I have.

[vesstheastralsilky]

So far all I get is an ESI vibe. There is not enough data but ESI is all I see.

Being a "bitch" is not ethical, justified, or ever something to brag about. My ESI sister has caused many people too much unnecessary deep tremendous grief and abuse and pain in life by simply touting this belief about herself as if it were an excuse. I am referring to your profile. This is not a cute topic.

There IS an afterlife and everyone is accountable for their own behavior. Just a friendly heads up.

[QueenTiger666]

So far all I get is an ESI vibe. There is not enough data but ESI is all I see.

Being a "bitch" is not ethical, justified, or ever something to brag about. My ESI sister has caused many people too much unnecessary deep tremendous grief and abuse and pain in life by simply touting this belief about herself as if it were an excuse. I am referring to your profile. This is not a cute topic.

There IS an afterlife and everyone is accountable for their own behavior. Just a friendly heads up.

Firstly, I don't care about being ethical, fuck off with that shit.
Secondly, I don't believe in an afterlife.
You seem like the death of the party, just a friendly heads up.

[QueenTiger666]

@queentiger

It seems pretty clear to me you have ego, which narrows it down to four types.

Based on those four types, the two beta ST types seem to make more sense since you seem more oriented towards questions of work rather than relationships.

I don't know though, just an impression based on the data I have.

Couldn't you say that being work/results oriented is more Te?

[Chthonic Daydream]

AssTP.
I'm thinking ESTp over ESTj so far, for sure. But just to be completely suuure, you mentioned "breaking rules" there-- Could you give an example of /how/ you did it and under what circumstances? If you can't recall, then be hypothetical about it, that will work as well.

[WVBRY]

Couldn't you say that being work/results oriented is more Te?

Good question.

Being work oriented, as in, influencing workplaces somehow (in terms of procedures or work itself, not human relations or that type of thing), seems more the domain of T types. However, is also described as being about "work". I would say that SLEs and LSIs are good at influencing work conditions since they have strong even if they don't value it.

Results though, should have nothing to do with but with the process/result dichotomy.

Maybe I should tag @thehotelambush as he seems to be pretty fluent at explaining this stuff, I don't see myself as the best person at disentangling this kind of thing intellectually, when it comes to socionics.

You do not seem LSE to me though, in any case.

[QueenTiger666]

AssTP.
I'm thinking ESTp over ESTj so far, for sure. But just to be completely suuure, you mentioned "breaking rules" there-- Could you give an example of /how/ you did it and under what circumstances? If you can't recall, then be hypothetical about it, that will work as well.

So as I'm 17, school will be my best example. So I'd assume you likely had a teacher that would always move someone who was chatty or something. Basically, at my old school whenever I got moved for stupid reasons or for being singled out - I would create my own "timetable" for that lesson. So basically the teacher never knew when I'd turn up, where I'd sit, if I'd do the work, when I'd leave. To prevent me from doing that they'd either have to give a valid reason for moving me OR move me back to the seat I originally sat in.

Also, if a teacher has the mix of being both incompetent and a twat, I will make an effort to try and get rid of them.

[QueenTiger666]

Good question.

Being work oriented, as in, influencing workplaces somehow (in terms of procedures or work itself, not human relations or that type of thing), seems more the domain of T types. However, is also described as being about "work". I would say that SLEs and LSIs are good at influencing work conditions since they have strong even if they don't value it.

Results though, should have nothing to do with but with the process/result dichotomy.

Maybe I should tag @thehotelambush as he seems to be pretty fluent at explaining this stuff, I don't see myself as the best person at disentangling this kind of thing intellectually, when it comes to socionics.

You do not seem LSE to me though, in any case.

Ah ok, in your original response you said "if those were the only 2 options" - were you thinking something other than both of those?

[WVBRY]

Ah ok, in your original response you said "if those were the only 2 options" - were you thinking something other than both of those?

I'm thinking maybe Gamma SF, and LSI.

I said that because I don't know your type, you were hesitating between SLE and LSE for your type, so I said "if those are the only two options" because I don't know your reasons for narrowing it down to those two.

[QueenTiger666]

Gamma SF

You said this though: "You come off more work and task oriented and intellectual than gamma SF types".
How about gamma NT?

[WVBRY]

You said this though: "You come off more work and task oriented and intellectual than gamma SF types".
How about gamma NT?

Nah, I see you as ego. That is, based on the very limited information I have given that I haven't interacted with you much yet.

I was thinking beta STs would be more work oriented, but after you asked about whether or not work was related to , that got me thinking maybe gamma SF is a stronger contender than I thought, since they value even if it's not a strong function for them.

[Chthonic Daydream]

So as I'm 17, school will be my best example. So I'd assume you likely had a teacher that would always move someone who was chatty or something. Basically, at my old school whenever I got moved for stupid reasons or for being singled out - I would create my own "timetable" for that lesson. So basically the teacher never knew when I'd turn up, where I'd sit, if I'd do the work, when I'd leave. To prevent me from doing that they'd either have to give a valid reason for moving me OR move me back to the seat I originally sat in.

Also, if a teacher has the mix of being both incompetent and a twat, I will make an effort to try and get rid of them.

Hah, you're pretty wild. This sounds like a day at my old school, honestly. I get you on the teachers part-- sometimes I'm too chatty but I only do so when I have the energy AND the reasons to annoy a teacher. But I do it more subtly. For the sake of keeping the options open, I'm not going to assume what "make an effort to try and get rid of them" means

Don't worry, I haven't asked all of this to judge you, I'm not your mommy or daddy. The reason why I asked is that SLEs have an interesting relationship with rules and systems. Here, have these two paragraphs to help you understand it better:

"In order to have their way, SLEs have a strong command of the various logical systems that necessitate or restrict coercive pressures on others. SLEs know expertly how to use the law, their position in the hierarchy of a group or boundaries and ultimatums of their own creation to maintain control of a situation. As such, SLEs are quickly able to bring order to chaos. Similarly, they are capable of exploiting loopholes in a system, so as to find permitted ways of succeeding where others have failed. In this way, structures become the perfect tool for SLEs to consolidate their power and ensure their success. Furthermore it grants a linear approach to their use of force, with SLEs usually setting out what they intend to do and following through in a natural progression, rather than erratically switching between different goals. SLEs also use their logic to make their arguments and debates more persuasive, giving clear reasons for their opinions and ruthlessly breaking down the flawed reasoning of others. Despite this, SLEs are not necessarily obedient to the rules of others, and although able to use rules to their advantage, may act in contempt of the system should they know they are able to get away with it due to weak leadership or a lack of enforcement. Similarly with hierarchy, SLEs will be aware of their particular rank but be unsatisfied until they are at the top and the boss of everyone else, challenging and eventually conquering the system rather than paying deference to superiors. Once at the top, SLEs set to work tailoring the system to handle any threat to their position."

"Rules and laws are seen only as guidelines for ESTp. If they decide that something needs to be done, then they'll do it regardless of who gets hurt. Their wants and needs take precedence over any rules. They're outspoken risk-takers who don't mind getting their hands really dirty. ESTp live in the here-and-now, and place little importance on introspection or consequence."

The first paragraph is from World Socionics. I don't think it's the most reliable source of info, really, but it does hold a seed of truth to it. SLEs are not reckless just for the heck of it. The second paragraph is from a satirical description that is more or less mocking SLEs, but I think that sometimes, there is some truth rooted in stereotypes, don't you? Otherwise, why would they even be stereotypes in the first place?

I'm fairly confident of you being ESTp on a first look, as of now. And your tritype and enneagram seems to be a-okay as well, the first think I tought of was "8" when reading all of that.

[QueenTiger666]

Nah, I see you as ego. That is, based on the very limited information I have given that I haven't interacted with you much yet.

I was thinking beta STs would be more work oriented, but after you asked about whether or not work was related to , that got me thinking maybe gamma SF is a stronger contender than I thought, since they value even if it's not a strong function for them.

The issue with saying SF tho is that I don't care for ethics and feelings really. I care about facts and logic.
I don't really think I'm LSE, but someone else I was talking to did - because I see my self as clearly on the Se/Ni axis.
The reason I ask about NT (particularly ENTj) is because I may have too much future vision to be ESTp. Like, I know I want to be a journalist, definitely online. I plan to start that sometime this year, I'm in talks with an ISTJ friend who knows how to make websites. I'm pretty business minded/ruthless. I'm a natural leader, good at telling people what should be done. I like to have a plan of action in place.

[Exodus]

Hey guys, so I'm debating whether I'm ESTp or ESTj. Here's some stuff about me:

- I'm pretty blunt and I tell it as it is
- My friends have said they admire how I do not let anyone walk all over me
- I hate incompetency
- I can be quite tactical and strategic- I enjoy chess for this reason
- I am very realistic (NF types sometimes interpret this as pessimism)
- I don't like people who can't take a joke
- I like being controversial
- At times I am guilty of "black and white thinking"
- I have always been popular at school - I'm the queen bee/ the Regina George.
- My IxFx family members have referred to me as "nasty" and "horrible"
- I am often the first to take action in a situation, I'm not one to sit around and moan if I have made no attempt to solve the issue
- I don't like sports
- I am a natural leader, I am able to organise people and be like "you do this, you do that"
- I have been labelled by people as "narcissistic", "histrionic" and "sociopathic"
- I'm either enneagram 3 or 8, and my tritype is definitely 378: The Mover and Shaker
- Ideally, I'd like to go into a career in journalism - preferably online
- I am really assertive, quite confident and dominant in social situations. I have no issue approaching people and talking to them.
- I will break rules to get what I want
- I often don't really know and understand how I'm feeling

If you need any more info, just ask

This kind of intense and demanding persona is really an Se leading (or at the very least Se valuing) in socionics.

"black and white thinking" suggests subdued Ne (preferring to see things in one way (Ni) rather than multiple ways)

while being controversial, "nasty and horrible", and Machiavellian in general suggests that you value Se over Si, or expanding your domain over yours or others' comfort.

So as I'm 17, school will be my best example. So I'd assume you likely had a teacher that would always move someone who was chatty or something. Basically, at my old school whenever I got moved for stupid reasons or for being singled out - I would create my own "timetable" for that lesson. So basically the teacher never knew when I'd turn up, where I'd sit, if I'd do the work, when I'd leave. To prevent me from doing that they'd either have to give a valid reason for moving me OR move me back to the seat I originally sat in.

Also, if a teacher has the mix of being both incompetent and a twat, I will make an effort to try and get rid of them.

This also shows at least some "wanting to Te for yourself" so ESI is less likely. If you're not Se leading then Se mobilizing. Also you seem to have some behavioral issues to work out...

[QueenTiger666]

Hah, you're pretty wild. This sounds like a day at my old school, honestly. I get you on the teachers part-- sometimes I'm too chatty but I only do so when I have the energy AND the reasons to annoy a teacher. But I do it more subtly. For the sake of keeping the options open, I'm not going to assume what "make an effort to try and get rid of them" means

Don't worry, I haven't asked all of this to judge you, I'm not your mommy or daddy. The reason why I asked is that SLEs have an interesting relationship with rules and systems. Here, have these two paragraphs to help you understand it better:

"In order to have their way, SLEs have a strong command of the various logical systems that necessitate or restrict coercive pressures on others. SLEs know expertly how to use the law, their position in the hierarchy of a group or boundaries and ultimatums of their own creation to maintain control of a situation. As such, SLEs are quickly able to bring order to chaos. Similarly, they are capable of exploiting loopholes in a system, so as to find permitted ways of succeeding where others have failed. In this way, structures become the perfect tool for SLEs to consolidate their power and ensure their success. Furthermore it grants a linear approach to their use of force, with SLEs usually setting out what they intend to do and following through in a natural progression, rather than erratically switching between different goals. SLEs also use their logic to make their arguments and debates more persuasive, giving clear reasons for their opinions and ruthlessly breaking down the flawed reasoning of others. Despite this, SLEs are not necessarily obedient to the rules of others, and although able to use rules to their advantage, may act in contempt of the system should they know they are able to get away with it due to weak leadership or a lack of enforcement. Similarly with hierarchy, SLEs will be aware of their particular rank but be unsatisfied until they are at the top and the boss of everyone else, challenging and eventually conquering the system rather than paying deference to superiors. Once at the top, SLEs set to work tailoring the system to handle any threat to their position."

"Rules and laws are seen only as guidelines for ESTp. If they decide that something needs to be done, then they'll do it regardless of who gets hurt. Their wants and needs take precedence over any rules. They're outspoken risk-takers who don't mind getting their hands really dirty. ESTp live in the here-and-now, and place little importance on introspection or consequence."

The first paragraph is from World Socionics. I don't think it's the most reliable source of info, really, but it does hold a seed of truth to it. SLEs are not reckless just for the heck of it. The second paragraph is from a satirical description that is more or less mocking SLEs, but I think that sometimes, there is some truth rooted in stereotypes, don't you? Otherwise, why would they even be stereotypes in the first place?

I'm fairly confident of you being ESTp on a first look, as of now. And your tritype and enneagram seems to be a-okay as well, the first think I tought of was "8" when reading all of that.

Tbh I think I might be a core 3 (3w4-8w7-7w8) because I'm very ambitious, I know what I want and I get it.
The description I would say is pretty accurate, and yes I'd say a lot of times there is truth rooted in stereotypes. People just can't look past their feelings to admit it.
In a way though, I do place lots of importance on consequence because nothing I do is without reason and I'm often very aware of what it will lead to.

[QueenTiger666]

This kind of intense and demanding persona is really an Se leading (or at the very least Se valuing) in socionics.

"black and white thinking" suggests subdued Ne (preferring to see things in one way (Ni) rather than multiple ways)

while being controversial, "nasty and horrible", and Machiavellian in general suggests that you value Se over Si, or expanding your domain over yours or others' comfort.



This also shows at least some "wanting to Te for yourself" so ESI is less likely. If you're not Se leading then Se mobilizing. Also you seem to have some behavioral issues to work out...

So we can narrow it down to ESp/ENj if I've understood that correctly

[Ryan]

The reason I ask about NT (particularly ENTj) is because I may have too much future vision to be ESTp. Like, I know I want to be a journalist, definitely online.

>be me 17 years old
>have a dream of becoming a journalist
>wait for it
>online
>I'm basically a visionary

see ya later virgins

[QueenTiger666]

>be me 17 years old
>have a dream of becoming a journalist
>wait for it
>online
>I'm basically a visionary

see ya later virgins

I mean there is much more money in the online business, the newspaper sector is practically dying with most major newspapers migrating online now. People just aren't buying the papers anymore
Also, not a virgin

[Ryan]

honestly your choice of a career at 17 doesn't mean anything in terms of you having a strong Ni

unless you have already made a fortune

[Lord Panda]

Ni isn't future vision... It's seeing larger trends and patterns, being able to see the flow of trends, ideas, events. High Ni implies high Ne as well, so Ni users are good at connecting ideas. The visions are often literal visions. Knowing your career isn't Ni. I don't know what I want to do with life, and I already have a degree, a romantic relationship, etc.

Here is an example of my Ni. When I was younger, I had this vision of this man with the head of a raven and when he opened his mouth, out flew amber and crimson butterflies. I spent a great deal of time, trying to analyze what exactly it meant. Then I found someone who had the qualities of the man in my vision, and I decided to end the lifelong search and marry him. Other things I'm interested in, dream interpretation, tarot readings, etc.

I have no idea what LIE's Ni is like though. It probably has a different focus.

[QueenTiger666]

Ni isn't future vision... It's seeing larger trends and patterns, being able to see the flow of trends, ideas, events. High Ni implies high Ne as well, so Ni users are good at connecting ideas. The visions are often literal visions. Knowing your career isn't Ni. I don't know what I want to do with life, and I already have a degree, a romantic relationship, etc.

Here is an example of my Ni. When I was younger, I had this vision of this man with the head of a raven and when he opened his mouth, out flew amber and crimson butterflies. I spent a great deal of time, trying to analyze what exactly it meant. Then I found someone who had the qualities of the man in my vision, and I decided to end the lifelong search and marry him. Other things I'm interested in, dream interpretation, tarot readings, etc.

I have no idea what LIE's Ni is like though. It probably has a different focus.

I am interested in dream interpretation, also conspiracy theories and parallel universes. I'm intrigued with numerology also.
One recurring dream/vision I have is of a new world, unlike this one. Being logical and ruthless is seen as the best traits, being emotional gets you left behind. Of course, I am the ruler of this world and everyone fears and obeys me. They all wish they could be me. I marry a guy, for money. He is like a piggy bank to me, he doesn't own anything, all of his things go straight to me.
I have another vision of me being the CEO of a large company, earning tons of money, making lots of decisions and organising everyone
These are likely connected to each other, both have me in a position of power and being rich. They also both have me being able to tell others what to do. Of course, this could mean I'm too power hungry but I don't see wanting money and power as a bad thing.

[Lord Panda]

I am interested in dream interpretation, also conspiracy theories and parallel universes. I'm intrigued with numerology also.
One recurring dream/vision I have is of a new world, unlike this one. Being logical and ruthless is seen as the best traits, being emotional gets you left behind. Of course, I am the ruler of this world and everyone fears and obeys me. They all wish they could be me. I marry a guy, for money. He is like a piggy bank to me, he doesn't own anything, all of his things go straight to me.
I have another vision of me being the CEO of a large company, earning tons of money, making lots of decisions and organising everyone
These are likely connected to each other, both have me in a position of power and being rich. They also both have me being able to tell others what to do. Of course, this could mean I'm too power hungry but I don't see wanting money and power as a bad thing.

This is extremely Beta. I think EIE or IEI would fit you. You may be reluctant to type as such, because of misconceptions. I have made some Beta posts in this thread:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...09#post1317009

I think any kind of ST is unlikely for you if what you have stated here is true...

[QueenTiger666]

This is extremely Beta. I think EIE or IEI would fit you. You may be reluctant to type as such, because of misconceptions. I have made some Beta posts in this thread:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...09#post1317009

I think any kind of ST is unlikely for you if what you have stated here is true...

I don't think any introvert would fit me.

[Lord Panda]

I don't think any introvert would fit me.

There's no question in my mind that you're EIE.

[QueenTiger666]

There's no question in my mind that you're EIE.

Explain?

[Exodus]

So we can narrow it down to ESp/ENj if I've understood that correctly

Yes

[Exodus]

There's no question in my mind that you're EIE.

That was fast

[Aster]

I think maybe an extroverted Beta type.

[QueenTiger666]

That was fast

Lol ikr, I could see LIE but not EIE imo tho