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Thread: EIE and LSE relationship

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Default EIE and LSE relationship

    @golden would you be able to add any information from your experience?

    This is from an EIE friend: "I have been on a few dates with an ESTJ man. We get along very well, the conversation flows and he makes me laugh a lot. He now wants to lock it in and call me his gf but I have a couple of reservations. I don’t think he would ever put me, and what’s important to me, above himself. For example, I don’t think I would be able to rely on him, say if I invited him to meet my friends - he would bail in favour of something he wants to do more (eg watch sport or whatever). I also feel like he is very discerning when it comes to his friendships whereas I am friends with lots of different people - he wouldn’t approve of a lot of the people I consider as friends, including male friends I have. I also feel that he would not help someone just for the sake of helping them - he would brush it off as “not his business” - I have seen him do this before.
    So - that’s my side of things. But before I lay all this on him, I want to give him some examples of how I would irritate him / our values wouldn’t align as well - so he can see that this discussion isn’t just “Yeah we get along amazingly but I feel you are too uptight for me” - he can see that a relationship with me wouldn’t work for him either."
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Yeah like other EIE she's friends with lots of different people. I'm not sure how LSE would take onto that.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Is her typing accurate. Maybe he’s a more extroverted LSI?

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    Is her typing accurate. Maybe he’s a more extroverted LSI?
    her self typing is definitely accurate. I had her read this to confirm that it wasn't EII or any other Extrovert type. Yes she's definitely Fe base because of that very first sentence she said.
    http://www.socionics.com/advan/prof/enfj.htm

    ENFj [+] and [-]

    If your type is Ethical-Intuitive Extratim - ENFj (The Actor):

    The strongest aspect of your personality is your ability to experience strong feelings and emotions. You posses a complicated spiritual world packed with contrasts and contradictions. You will sacrifice many things for the sake of genuine, deep feelings. You have a very poetic nature that allows you to express your experiences in an extremely vivid manner. You have the intrinsic potential to be an orator, to captivate the attention of a large number of people. You are a clear-sighted and judicious person. You can easily sense potentially major crisis and know well what to do in order to avoid it. You often forewarn others about impending troubles. A sense of responsibility towards others is at the core of your personality. You are a person of principle.

    You are somewhat inflexible to change and therefore find it difficult to adapt in new societies. You can also show excessive formality during interaction causing you even more problems. You often have a great interest in economy and business matters. You are unsure in your aesthetic taste, especially where your appearance is concerned. You get suspicious of others opinions and advice concerning your appearance. You do not always pay as much attention to your health as you should. You can become so immersed in your work or interests that you can forget about following a healthy routine.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    her self typing is definitely accurate. I had her read this to confirm that it wasn't EII or any other Extrovert type. Yes she's definitely Fe base because of that very first sentence she said.
    http://www.socionics.com/advan/prof/enfj.htm

    ENFj [+] and [-]

    If your type is Ethical-Intuitive Extratim - ENFj (The Actor):

    The strongest aspect of your personality is your ability to experience strong feelings and emotions. You posses a complicated spiritual world packed with contrasts and contradictions. You will sacrifice many things for the sake of genuine, deep feelings. You have a very poetic nature that allows you to express your experiences in an extremely vivid manner. You have the intrinsic potential to be an orator, to captivate the attention of a large number of people. You are a clear-sighted and judicious person. You can easily sense potentially major crisis and know well what to do in order to avoid it. You often forewarn others about impending troubles. A sense of responsibility towards others is at the core of your personality. You are a person of principle.

    You are somewhat inflexible to change and therefore find it difficult to adapt in new societies. You can also show excessive formality during interaction causing you even more problems. You often have a great interest in economy and business matters. You are unsure in your aesthetic taste, especially where your appearance is concerned. You get suspicious of others opinions and advice concerning your appearance. You do not always pay as much attention to your health as you should. You can become so immersed in your work or interests that you can forget about following a healthy routine.
    Sorry I was actually asking if HIS LSE typing could be correct? She says they get along amazingly well. Maybe he’s really an LSI after all.

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    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    @golden would you be able to add any information from your experience?

    This is from an EIE friend: "I have been on a few dates with an ESTJ man. We get along very well, the conversation flows and he makes me laugh a lot. He now wants to lock it in and call me his gf but I have a couple of reservations. I don’t think he would ever put me, and what’s important to me, above himself. For example, I don’t think I would be able to rely on him, say if I invited him to meet my friends - he would bail in favour of something he wants to do more (eg watch sport or whatever). I also feel like he is very discerning when it comes to his friendships whereas I am friends with lots of different people - he wouldn’t approve of a lot of the people I consider as friends, including male friends I have. I also feel that he would not help someone just for the sake of helping them - he would brush it off as “not his business” - I have seen him do this before.
    So - that’s my side of things. But before I lay all this on him, I want to give him some examples of how I would irritate him / our values wouldn’t align as well - so he can see that this discussion isn’t just “Yeah we get along amazingly but I feel you are too uptight for me” - he can see that a relationship with me wouldn’t work for him either."
    It sounds plausibly EIE-LSE. My experience is that I didn’t feel I had enough influence over LSEs. They seemed impervious to my input even when they directly asked for it. In retrospect I now see I have had more influence than I thought. But I had to live with an ongoing feeling of dissatisfaction.

    Re what your friend said, LSE doesn’t loosen up much in response to me, and LSI does. The feeling that LSE should respond to and mirror Fe in a softening way that makes you feel you have the inside look at them probably has to do with being cued to the dual. Not loosening up doesn’t necessarily mean the LSE has a problem with the EIE, they just kind of witness it rather than enter the fray when it comes to Fe displays.

    LSE does seem to look for less stimulation from friendships, but I know one who will hang out with weird people when he isn’t working, if he’s offered the chance. He sees himself as stuffy and square and doesn’t really think he has much to offer poets and pure intellectuals (though that’s not true imo).

    Ime even if an LSE might think something is not their problem, I also think they can respect another person’s compassion and desire to help someone, and when I have directly said things like, “do you have any suggestions for how to help this member of our community, who is in need?” they have come through.

    LSEs can respect EIE. There can be mutual respect and some warmth, and learning, and some power struggles, too.

    If you have any specific questions, please let me know.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    It sounds plausibly EIE-LSE. My experience is that I didn’t feel I had enough influence over LSEs. They seemed impervious to my input even when they directly asked for it. In retrospect I now see I have had more influence than I thought. But I had to live with an ongoing feeling of dissatisfaction.

    Re what your friend said, LSE doesn’t loosen up much in response to me, and LSI does. The feeling that LSE should respond to and mirror Fe in a softening way that makes you feel you have the inside look at them probably has to do with being cued to the dual. Not loosening up doesn’t necessarily mean the LSE has a problem with the EIE, they just kind of witness it rather than enter the fray when it comes to Fe displays.

    LSE does seem to look for less stimulation from friendships, but I know one who will hang out with weird people when he isn’t working, if he’s offered the chance. He sees himself as stuffy and square and doesn’t really think he has much to offer poets and pure intellectuals (though that’s not true imo).

    Ime even if an LSE might think something is not their problem, I also think they can respect another person’s compassion and desire to help someone, and when I have directly said things like, “do you have any suggestions for how to help this member of our community, who is in need?” they have come through.

    LSEs can respect EIE. There can be mutual respect and some warmth, and learning, and some power struggles, too.

    If you have any specific questions, please let me know.
    LSE are not asking for input they are using you as a sounding board to bounce ideas, emotions, thoughts and feelings off of to see how you'll react and whether or not you give good advice or bad advice, irregardless they'll take the aspects of or the parts of the answer they want to make their decisions. Or not use it to make their decisions depends on what you have to contribute but usually they use people as a sounding board. In telling you what they are going through they determine how they will solve their own problem.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    LSE are not asking for input they are using you as a sounding board to bounce ideas, emotions, thoughts and feelings off of to see how you'll react and whether or not you give good advice or bad advice, irregardless they'll take the aspects of or the parts of the answer they want to make their decisions. Or not use it to make their decisions depends on what you have to contribute but usually they use people as a sounding board. In telling you what they are going through they determine how they will solve their own problem.
    That’s probably true, which is why I can see in retrospect I did have influence ... my ideas were taken on board and over time made a difference. I find Beta STs will not forget where they got the idea, though. They are more likely to show you how they are taking up your idea and say they are thinking about it, and if it helps them they will tell you. I didn’t get that feedback from LSEs, so it’s just different.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    Sorry I was actually asking if HIS LSE typing could be correct? She says they get along amazingly well. Maybe he’s really an LSI after all.
    yes he's definitely LSE because he is not receptive to her advice as golden clarified about LSE and EIE interactions
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    My last contribution here. I didn't see a need to question whether the people are LSE and EIE because I can't gauge that better than Sky from where I sit and the description is close enough that it works. More sensible to take it at face value.

    I find I can get along well with LSEs. We can fall into a similar rhythm pretty easily. It's easier to communicate in person than digitally, where we tend to talk past each other especially much. Getting along at that level doesn't mean the guy is LSI.

    I didn't address this:

    "So - that’s my side of things. But before I lay all this on him, I want to give him some examples of how I would irritate him / our values wouldn’t align as well - so he can see that this discussion isn’t just 'Yeah we get along amazingly but I feel you are too uptight for me' - he can see that a relationship with me wouldn’t work for him either."

    I would just say to this, I will be surprised if an LSE man "can see" that a relationship with the EIE won't work after her explaining "all this." What I think will happen is that his sensitive side will come out, he will seem wounded, the EIE will feel she was too harsh, and she will find it harder than ever to extricate herself from a relationship that is not very suitable, even if it is not unpleasant. (Whatever his affect--stoic, sad, argumentative, dismissive--he will not just cave in to what she says.)

    If the EIE wants to end this, she will have to be willing to be very firm about ending it even if the LSE cannot really understand it. She is using Fe and Ni to model and judge the long-range picture. That doesn't hit home for him. He will probably feel like if things seem good now, there's no reason they can't be equally good in two, five, or even ten years. She will have to resist his logical arguments for why the relationship should work. It's almost like she's describing a scenario where she will be asking permission to break it off. That's not a position of strength for her to work from.

    ETA: There's an off chance something in his background will cause him to just take her saying no as a done deal and abruptly withdraw, but I think that's less likely and he still won't know what she was talking about.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by golden; 04-07-2019 at 03:17 AM.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    These relationships have great potential for achieving many goals, and mutual understanding is usually better than for dual-relationships. Unfortunately, they both compete for center stage and want to set the agenda. If they're able find a balanced sharing of the spotlight, this relationship can become very close and long-lasting.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    These relationships have great potential for achieving many goals, and mutual understanding is usually better than for dual-relationships. Unfortunately, they both compete for center stage and want to set the agenda. If they're able find a balanced sharing of the spotlight, this relationship can become very close and long-lasting.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Rebel to be honest I have never seen a celebrity couple of this pairing before. So, I don't have any examples from both real life and that life to compare and maybe listen to interviews to look at dynamics of the relationship. I just have one question, why not? Why don't I see any ESTJ married to ENFJ and in a potentially long lasting relationships with them?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Rebel to be honest I have never seen a celebrity couple of this pairing before. So, I don't have any examples from both real life and that life to compare and maybe listen to interviews to look at dynamics of the relationship. I just have one question, why not? Why don't I see any ESTJ married to ENFJ and in a potentially long lasting relationships with them?
    I never trust my typing of celebrities so I defer to your observations. I only have one example of a long-time married couple (they're really go,go,go) who seem to have different circles of friends and hobbies but unite solidly for their children; I've seen quite a few in project teams - most all worked very well together but then they had set goals and supervisors - one pair I remember did sling poop at one another but I was told that the ESTj slept with the other's wife. I've noticed an ease at which they seem to communicate and how they're able to easily find each others niche and divvy up the work - when left to their own devices, they seem to cooperate and not tread in each others pasture but the dynamic changes sometimes when they're in company......

    a,k.a. I/O

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    EIE annoy by Fe

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    EIE annoy by Fe
    You mean you would be annoyed by strong feelings?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I have a great LSE friend who has four children. The oldest is female and she married a university researcher and moved out. The second might be an ESE and he helps in the LSE's business. The third is an EIE male who doesn't work, and the youngest is a female who refused to move out of the house and who butts heads with my friend daily.

    My friend is proudest of his two oldest kids, and looks at the two younger kids as thorns in his side. Indeed, I know the EIE pretty well, and he expects his father to support him unconditionally. He got in a motorcycle accident in his twenties and was in a wheelchair for a few years, with all his bills being paid by the LSE. The EIE also needed psych meds at a cost of about $30k/mo and blamed the LSE for all of his social problems. The LSE funded an effort to get his EIE son started in his own business, but the EIE sabotaged the business at every turn and the business failed.
    From there, the EIE met a nice LSI female and they got married. The LSE's wife insisted that the LSE buy the newlyweds a house and fifty acres in the country, so the EIE could raise ducks and sell duck eggs. Of course, this endeavor only incurred costs, not profits. Costs which were born entirely by his father. Eventually, the EIE cheated on his LSI wife and she kicked him out and continued living in the house alone.
    Rather than have his son move back in with him, the LSE (who works harder than anyone I know and has some money) bought his son a second house, far from the city, from which said house the EIE complains loudly to everyone around him that his problems are due to the LSE being too nice to him.
    But believe me, the person being nice to the EIE is his mother, not the LSE. The LSE merely does what his wife insists he do, and she is squarely on the side of the kids, rather than her husband. I'm pretty sure that she is not an EII, because my friend feels that his wife and daughter have turned him into an unwelcome guest in his own house.

    Today, the LSE came over and asked me to help him choose some electronics gear. The gear would cost about $250, which to the LSE is basically the same as "free", but my friend just wanted someone to walk him through this purchase.
    While we were looking online at the various brands of gear, the LSE got a phone call from his wife, who was calling him from their home. The EIE had apparently cut himself and couldn't stop the bleeding, and the LSE's wife wanted him to drive out to his son's house right away and take him to the hospital.
    I said to my friend, "No problem, Dude. We can do this another day, after you go get your son."
    The LSE looked at me with an almost inhuman expression on his face. It was slightly terrifying and he said in a flat tone, "Maybe he'll bleed to death." But he made no motion to leave.
    I sat and thought about this for a second.
    "So you're not going to go get him?"
    "No." He leaned back into the computer screen. "Let's find that gear we were going to buy."

    I've seen some bad opposite Quadra stuff before, and I've seen hard feelings between family members, especially if the individuals feel that the other person wronged them, but I've never before seen the dead talk.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-23-2021 at 03:03 AM.

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    @Beautiful sky
    has the experience

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    @Beautiful sky
    has the experience
    I do not
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @Adam Strange

    I feel bad for both father and son here. The way each tries to demonstrate love goes straight over the other's head - and I think in the case of the father who is Fi-seeking, the lack of receptiveness to his love is very painful. My LSE ex had an EIE dad and never opened up to him about anything, even though his dad always seemed kind. LSEs seem to respond to a lack of Fi support by going very cold for some reason - colder than LIEs do in the same situation. I've also heard the "death" response your LSE buddy gave you regarding his son from others whose family members were either their Superego or Conflictor.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 07-24-2021 at 03:13 PM.

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    youfloweryourfeast's Avatar
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    My EIE mother would complain to me about my LSE father and they would still have fights even after divorcing. My EIE mother took a lot of money from him and kept complaining, asking for more and more saying he left her with nothing. Her fe was everywhere and she paints my father as this horrible, vindictive person to everyone including my friends and their families. My father asked her to stop talking about him to random people. She loves to tell everyone about people's internal issues and struggles maybe this is due to poor fi and si. She just can't understand. My coach is an ESE and she says how he is a better person.
    She also would say due to his lack of ni he is close minded and doesn't try to help my brother. She is far more strict and demanding.

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    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by youfloweryourfeast View Post
    My EIE mother would complain to me about my LSE father and they would still have fights even after divorcing. My EIE mother took a lot of money from him and kept complaining, asking for more and more saying he left her with nothing. Her fe was everywhere and she paints my father as this horrible, vindictive person to everyone including my friends and their families. My father asked her to stop talking about him to random people. She loves to tell everyone about people's internal issues and struggles maybe this is due to poor fi and si. She just can't understand. My coach is an ESE and she says how he is a better person.
    She also would say due to his lack of ni he is close minded and doesn't try to help my brother. She is far more strict and demanding.
    All of this except for the crossed out is pretty much the same of what happened at home between LSE dad and ESE mom. They also divorced when I was like 9.
    The funny thing is that all of what my mom said during many years (that my dad was controlling, manipulative and unfair etc) sounded like exaggerations and kinda delusions to me during most part of my life until I got married and had to disagree and detach from my dad who was trying to actually get into my life and kinda control my decisions about my marriage (this all mostly because he was upset about my IEE husband disagreeing with him openly in a pretty clipped wings complex way / or IEE description of stretching and crossing the limits according stratiyevskaya).

    Anyway, what I know now is that ExE tend to express during many years openly their anger, disappointment and frustration towards ppl who made them wrong (even taking this to strangers or ppl who has nothing to do with it like you said), and even when all of this sounds ill minded they still getting some truth behind their words/experiences. So basically I needed my dual to actually be able to see reality in the Fe pov.

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