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Thread: Identical Twins and Type

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Possibly. It is, however, your problem.
    You need to read type and type interactions. Because EII draw conclusion from a lot of information that has been process and yes they do sometimes fill in the gaps (intution/Ne possibilities of outcomes.); I don't know why, is it math or ???
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    Why do Russian experts believe that type is genetically determined?
    Probably because they observed enough identical twins who are the same type. Some Russian speakers could certainly find it out...
    If you ask midwifes, they claim they have observed that during full moon, significantly more baby boys are born. But until this has been proven using scientic procedures, this is a hypothesis at best. And guess what: it has been disproven!

    Show me the results of scientific research! Referring to 'the Russians' doesn't make it true, and I wouldn't be surprised when 'the Russians' never made such claims.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You need to read type and type interactions. Because EII draw conclusion from a lot of information that has been process and yes they do sometimes fill in the gaps (intution/Ne possibilities of outcomes.); I don't know why, is it math or ???
    I don't have to read up on type. You just need to get your head examined.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    Again the intereting question:
    Why do Russian experts believe that type is genetically determined?
    Probably because they observed enough identical twins who are the same type. Some Russian speakers could certainly find it out...
    Because it has been studied. Independently, but will all things Russia...they don't like letting the outside world know anything they know; their was a proceedure that a Russian doctor was testing about 35 years ago with extending limbs of people born with one leg shorter then the other; he performed that proceedure on my cousin in the late 80's; The proceedure did not get adapted into the US community nearly 28 years after it was founded. Think about that.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Because it has been studied.
    The result of a study could very well have been that the hypothesis has been disproven. But I assume you mean: studied and proven. If that is the case, then put your money where your mouth is and show us where we can find that research, so we can investigate how the study ws performed and if it was done using valid methods. I have read Socionics studies myself that violated principles of scientific studies (e.g. the one mentioned on socionics.us on type and vocabulary).

    ETA: now you have changed your post (you should really learn to use ETAs) and are referring to undisclosed 'scientific research'??
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    So how do you type them?

    Yes, that is true. It is possible that Jaroslaw is homosexual and Lech was not. Might depend on the level of testosterone they got...

    Again the intereting question:
    Why do Russian experts believe that type is genetically determined?
    Probably because they observed enough identical twins who are the same type. Some Russian speakers could certainly find it out...
    I have no set opinion, but I'd say Ti/Fe valuing. I speculated Lech could have been LII and Jaroslaw SLE. Coincidentially, that would result in supervision - which would explain enormous influence there was. Although the information I based it on comes from sources which were keen to represent them in either very bad or very good light, as most info on politicians does.

    Good point about potential repressed homosexuality, although that's something we'll probably never know for sure.

    I think what's believed about type is that it's inborn, or more exactly natural (i.e. independent of parental influence, for example). This may lead many people - like some here - to assume it's genetic. Let's face it, that's what is taught at school along with simple trait inheritance - that genotype determines fenotype, period. It's easy to jump to conclusions. Was there ever any kind of socionics research involving twins? I'd be interested in any evidence there might be.

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    I knew a pair of identical twins. They were most definitely of different socio-types.

    In fact, many of my sensor friends could not tell the difference between them. Only two people, an LIE and myself, were able to distinguish them with ease. I think this is because we tended to distinguish them not by physical means since we were intuitives, but something less tangible but still part of their persona.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    The result of a study could very well have been that the hypothesis has been disproven. But I assume you mean: studied and proven. If that is the case, then put your money where your mouth is and show us where we can find that research, so we can investigate how the study ws performed and if it was done using valid methods. I have read Socionics studies myself that violated principles of scientific studies (e.g. the one mentioned on socionics.us on type and vocabulary).

    ETA: now you have changed your post (you should really learn to use ETAs) and are referring to undisclosed 'scientific research'??
    They won't disclose the study to me. They were nice enough to send me literature that I could read and have translated and references to books.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    They won't disclose the study to me.
    Then shut your mouth and don't refer to 'undisclosed studies' to support your POV. That's simply manipulative.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Then shut your mouth and don't refer to 'undisclosed studies' to support your POV. That's simply manipulative.
    Then learn socionics before you type, because at least I have remained in good relations with those individuals and can ask them questions where your fail conclusions are garbage to say the least.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Then learn socionics before you type, because at least I have remained in good relations with those individuals and can ask them questions where your fail conclusions are garbage to say the least.
    What conclusions are you talking about?
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    In my family there are 2 sets of identical siblings.

    The first set are females aged 31.They have tested as Myers Briggs ENFP & ISFJ. They live in different towns and whenever they have sat an online personality test they ring each other up to find out the results. If their results differ for that test, then one will always go back and resit the test and it will then come out the same as the other, so testing them is very unreliable.
    One twin (and this twin changes) is always quieter than the other. As young girls and even now they would occasionally alternate between acting introverted and extroverted. One would take on the role of being soft spoken, a bit shy and the other would be slightly louder and socially more comfortable. Despite these two acting different at different points in time I do think that they are probably the same personality type.

    My youngest sisters are 17 and are in fact quadruplets. One who is not identical had a twin who the doctors think was identical but who died in the womb, so the remaining quads who we now call triplets contain 2 identicals and 1 fraternal (non identical). One of the identicals was far quieter than her identical when they were younger but now she is the louder more confident outgoing one of the two. One is more emotionally up and down the the other but the other does have her moments. They have the same best friends, same interests and hobbies.I would say that overall they are probably the same type. The fraternal triplet is clearly using a different type to the other two.

    I think that you need to watch identical twins long term to get a true idea of the personality type that they are using, for every so often they can switch easily between being quieter or louder depending on what the other twin needs from them etc at points in time. This happens naturally without any words being spoken between them and can last for just a moment or for a much longer period.. And because of this swap it will appear to others that one identical is louder, more outgoing than the other.

    Identical twins in my family are most likely using the same personality system but probably have different enneagrams which I think allows them their own uniqueness - roles in society etc.

    I'm not sure that it is worth mentioning but both sets of identicals were born with one twin somewhat heavier than the other and it is that twin in both cases who overall is the twin more in charge (though not always!).
    That's interesting observation.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  13. #93
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    Tests suck dick. Identical twins are identical (duh) (except for finger prints)

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    I've observed this: Identical (monozygotic) twins are always: a) Identicals, b) conflictors. I don't have a too large sample from which I've drawn this conclusion, but it makes sense because VI-wise conflictors are very similar (in external traits/appeareance , not actual VI of facial expressions). This suggests that conflictors share similar genetic configuration, and that at an undetermined point, a "switch" is activated that sets the final type. What this "switch" could be, I do not know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toska
    Cole Sprouse being ILE-Ti, Dylan Sprouse being SLE-Ti. I'd be curious if this pattern goes on elsewhere. Thoughts?
    IMO; Cole - LIE-Te, Dylan - SEI-Si.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Two identical twins must be the same type. To believe otherwise is to question everything we know about the types in general. If you can find two identical twins that are indisputably different socionic types, then you have falsified Socionics.
    This is not true because there are a lot of things that occur post-fertilization and after birth that cause monozygotic identical twins to no longer be carbon copies of each other.

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    I knew a pair who both seemed SEE except one was more girly and the other was more sporty. Sadly, one of them died. I knew a non-identical pair and one of them seemed ILE and the other EIE. That’s all I’ve seen so far.
    ・゚*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:・゚

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    My childhood neighbors were both EIE-Ni, but I'm not sure if they were identical and the one still living doesn't know either. My parents couldn't tell them apart very well, but I always thought of them as different people. Another pair of twins (not sure if they're identical) I know of are also EIE-Ni (or at least one is, god I HATE their EIE-Ni son's narcissistic rage and pretentiousness and quips and frequently shitty selections of things, some of the foods, his refrigerator, having a gas grill and his home and the way parts of it smell are pretty terrible although the photos he takes are quite good). A third pair of twins (they are identical but I've always been able to tell them apart) I know were IEI-Ni. I've been friends with the sexy one while the other one wasn't sexy so I didn't pursue friendship with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by fresh meat View Post
    I knew a pair who both seemed SEE except one was more girly and the other was more sporty. Sadly, one of them died. I knew a non-identical pair and one of them seemed ILE and the other EIE. That’s all I’ve seen so far.
    Which gender were they, by type?
    Last edited by Disturbed; 10-26-2019 at 03:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    My childhood neighbors were both EIE-Ni, but I'm not sure if they were identical and the one still living doesn't know either. My parents couldn't tell them apart very well, but I always thought of them as different people. Another pair of twins (not sure if they're identical) I know of are also EIE-Ni (or at least one is, god I HATE their EIE-Ni son's narcissistic rage and pretentiousness and quips and frequently shitty selections of things). A third pair of twins (they are identical but I've always been able to tell them apart) I know were IEI-Ni. I've been friends with the sexy one while the other one wasn't sexy so I didn't pursue friendship with her.

    Which gender were they, by type?
    The SEEs were girls. ILE is a guy, EIE is a girl.
    ・゚*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:・゚

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    I have lots of identical and non-identical twins in my family. I find them interesting and I think twins generally are not identical. I have theory but I am not going to share at the moment. By the way, genes of identical twins are also not %100 identical due to epigenetics.

    For example, I don't think that twins in this video are not identical. (CC video is shared by sbdds to illustrate some fragment of her personalized hell)



    Bailey has better Fe than Brooklyn. She is either ESE or IEE or EIE, can't say the same with same level of confidence for Brooklyn.


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