EIIs/INFjs, how do you experience your Ti role ?

[noaydi]

Isn't it a kind of obsession/repulsion with a system identfied as "truth" ?

Freud said that neurotic ppl known that 1+1 = 2 and that this was making them ill.

Typically I feel MBTI/socionic haterz are often Ti role (probably because it feel like a limitation of the possible narcissical boost they can get from their second function)

I can easily see how we can feel that personnality typing is a limitation to the potential you feel you have coming from your second function (Ne - wich identify potentiality for your proper person - in a kind of "what I'm meant to do"). It put you in a box that secondary function hate in order to imagine a future for yourself.

Not sure of what I say.

[The Reality Denialist]

Delta NF's handle the truth selectively. IEE's might no want to recognize system at all and EII's may hesitate to tell immediate non truths although they might voice more general and distant systemic views.

[noaydi]

had a discussion in the chat and apparently I was thinking bullshit, so whatever what I think, how do you experience your role ? If it's how FDG was saying, ie giving some logical rationnal to your action even if you "choosed" to do the thing by Fi preference mainly, that's for sure something I do and that I'm interested into ameliorate. Not necessarely for myself, but for example it can be usefull in work setting.

[noaydi]

Can we agree that Typologie is strongly a Ti matter at least ?
Ive a IEE friend who had no problem "believing" in typologie (socionic).
Personnaly Ive more problem because I feel like it impair somewhat my natural intuition of how I view ppl (more about how they react emotionnally, why, etc).

@troll no 7, how you can define "selectively" ? For example, they handle the Ti truth only if it go with their Fi ideal ? I'm not 100% sure of that, I'm not sure EII are super enjoyed by all truth because they select only the few that arrange them, Ive rarely seen that irl, it's probably more complex.
There is Ne- too who play a role

[Ryan]

Can we agree that Typologie is strongly a Ti matter at least ?
Ive a IEE friend who had no problem "believing" in typologie (socionic).
Personnaly Ive more problem because I feel like it impair somewhat my natural intuition of how I view ppl (more about how they react emotionnally, why, etc).

I would say Ni. But that is my opinion.

I can't speak for your friend. But what you are expressing seems like Ne valuing over Ni.

[The Reality Denialist]

I think having systemic mind is bit (or a lot) different than believing in systems.

IEE projects learned facts to their internal holographic wall. They rarely dissect roots of those things. Not saying that this alone is an ethical thing to do but when it is excessive. Of course there is variation.

[noaydi]

Yes I'm EII-Fi (most probably) with a small probability of being the creative subtype (in any way I identify with dominant/contacting/terminating but I don't relate that much to the super dull/non funny/ultra moral side of how INFJ dominant are depicted sometime).

My problem with typologie is that I tend, as many ppl here, to type ppl when I meet them, as a kind of reflex, but I know at the same time that if I was listening more to myself, I could view more intuitively, I could understand more easily the psyche of ppl without having to ressort to the knowledge Ive from Socionic. This is something wich is motivating myself to write atm, so perhaps I could be able to bypass this problem and write character/psychological character without ressorting much to psychology, socionic, communism, untermensch, ******, etc.

Ive noticed on youtube in some completely different domain than socionic, that for some kind of ppl, these kind of reasonning (typology or similar view of reality) are actually liberating ppl instead of kinda "jail" them like I feel for myself.

[noaydi]

I think having systemic mind is bit (or a lot) different than believing in systems.

IEE projects learned facts to their internal holographic wall. They rarely dissect roots of those things. Not saying that this alone is an ethical thing to do but when it is excessive. Of course there is variation.

well said, informative, thx

Ive noticed this too in myself : I can believe in socionic or typology, with some degree of effort begin to deconstruct it, but it never go to far. With Ti valuing/Ti ego, you should be far more at ease with these type of thinking.

At an extrem point Ive seen some Te valuer asking themself if it's possible to not beleive (we was speaking obviously about a system of thought : he seemed to want to abstract himself totally from Ti)

[Singu]

I honestly doubt that people "experience" logic differently. Logic is logic, and logic is objective and universal. My logic isn't different from your logic. If it were, then it wouldn't be logic.

At the bottom of it, logic is simply based on a few very simple rules, and then it builds up from there. There's actually nothing certain about logic, logic isn't absolute or it's the ultimate truth. Neither you can actually derive anything from logic. We only use logic because it's useful for explaining things and it helps us with understanding the world.

Logic is also physically possible in the physical world, and that's why we have computers. So there is something in this universe that allows logic to be used.

[noaydi]

I am a high neurotic person based on big 5 test and I know that 1+1=10, and it doesn't make me ill or feel ilfeel.

I know it. It was for paraphrasing other stuff. Like, knowing for example that war is a reality, we will die one day, that girls prefer bad boys, everything pointing you are untermensch, and seeing it as absolute truth and being super annoyed from it. (idiot example I know)

I like socionics and MBTI and even not have any hate feeling towards this two systems. I just feel sad because of there is so much "law enforcer and lawful typist" whom not want to being open with human development and just treat all socionics and MBTI resources like a "holy book" that shouldn't be changed.

Whhaatttt ? This is almost dangerous now omg. You put a fuckton of faith into socionic, or at least you have absolutely no problem with it. The only advantage imo for socionic is the moral POV that can be implied from it, or perhaps inventing a "perfect way of behaving transcending all type". I can somewhat understand your point of view if the person is able to give good personnal developpement advicse for each ppl, but imo this is still a little liberticidal, because it imply always some type should absolutely developp only in some domain. It's almost dictatorial, plus it imply we need someone unflawed logically or morally while being integrated into something where you have things ilke contrary quadra. I'm not sure it's possible. We can appraoch this kind of perfect comprehension but with time, some flaw will appear, even if very long time.

i apologize for my personal answer

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[Lord Pixel]

I experience my role sort of like this, sometimes my Fi becomes so obsessed with a topic (like MBTI or socionic) that I want to understand all the ins and outs of it, except the super duper complicated dense ins and outs that do not seem necessary to understand the topic as a whole, (Reinin math). I also experience my role when I am around new people and feel like I have to set up an image of my intelligence level in their mind as a first impression. For example I'll use bigger words when I am around strangers just so they know I'm not a dumb person. But I fumble with the correct use of these words sometimes so I eventually look like a try hard lol. ALSO I only interact with folks if it makes sense to do so if they are strangers, like a logical reason to interact with them, either to ask the time, or have some purpose, not sure if that's Ti or not.

[Sol]

They think the need to act by rules and laws. Explain own actions by them.

> Freud said that neurotic ppl known that 1+1 = 2 and that this was making them ill.

As neurosis is abnormal thinking then then it's the opposite.

> Typically I feel MBTI/socionic haterz are often Ti role

Se types may like the psychology the least as there is much of Ne.

> I can easily see how we can feel that personnality typing is a limitation to the potential you feel

It's not more limitation than other knowledge. The problems are: is the knowledge correct, how the knowledge is used.
To have a hammer limits you? You'd could to hit the nails by hands, stones, by other nails, etc limitations.

[Minde]

I've been told when I argue I go into my Ti-role and it can come across as somewhat silly. I think what happens is I have something that makes sense on an intuitive (or gut or unconscious) level and then try to rationalize my way back to the conclusion. Often I can make it happen, but it isn't always super sound (which anyone strong in Ti, valued or unvalued, can see through) and it isn't unusual for there to be gaps. However, I'm still right a lot of the time, regardless of the lack of Ti structure.

[Beautiful sky]

I analyze things from an Ne perspective. I state my conclusion rather than detailed detached factual analysis and it is a weaker function in me and it does drain me to do it for ESE and EIE. I fail at holding in an analytical state for too long. I always get back back to my feelings and my personal impressions and my personal insights in an Ne way “I saw it”

[Beautiful sky]

@Eliza Thomason. This thread shows you a lot of differences between “EII”