LSEs/ESTjs being difficult by being blunt

[Aylen]

I used to think a difficult SLE was like dealing with the lord of darkness. After watching this again I can see it as a visual simile of an IEI interacting with a difficult LSE or vice versa, depending on your perspective.

[Beautiful sky]

Okay to recap

LSEs can be cranky. Just the other day I was putting on a moisturizer in the kitchen and my LSE says "can't you do that in the bathroom and not in front of me?" Completely absent of all gentle emotions, very cold as if there was not a trace of love for me. I thought to myself if I were any other type I would not be as patient and would respond verbally and come back with an aggressive remark but always I remained silent and patient and the LSE realized that they were being cranky and said "oh boy I'm being cranky right now and I don't know why." I then realized that teak a typical LSE because they can't recognize their emotions and relate to others softly. It's all about controlling your actions. "Do what you're going to do in the right place for it."

LSEs can be bitchy. Spewing out nonsense without thinking about their personal ties and relationships even though they care about them.

They can be grumpy.

They can watch the time and cut you off from speaking further if they determine that your time is up and they need to do something.

They want to do thing on their terms being inconsistent of your needs and wants. This translates into a high degree of selfishness.

They will arrange their own schedule according to their desired activities.

They will mistreat people but on this they need to be reminded to calm down.

LSEs can get into indecisive moments where they can't decide where to take you for a date lol

[Beautiful sky]

regarding video - sounds like exactly the kind of behavior that would repel me and not be interested in someone/want to be close to them

Not every Estj is like that my Estj is NOT at all

[aixelsyd]

It's hard for.me to say because my dad is LSE but verbally abusive. However, I have come to realize it has a lot to do with mental health and anxiety that had been untreated for so long seeing that it causes brain damage over time. I used to resent him for it but, as I have grown older, I notice he and I are very similar in our crankiness and tendency to want to intimidate people into respecting personal space and belongings. I think this is largely the reason I prioritize spirituality so as to not succumb to those tendencies. It used to piss me off when family would compare me to him because of our shared stubbornness and ill temper (though I would say I am generally more laid back and less demanding of others). But sometimes it's like a switch and I see events as if through his eyes. The good thing is it helps me to have compassion for him. The bad is that there is the dark side of myself which I have to be careful doesn't take over.

But I'd like to think more emotionally mature LSEs are very noble people who take responsibility for their behavior and constantly work on being the best versions of themselves. I suspect this also has to do with a growth mindset over a fixed mindset. My dad often said he can't change who he is or how he is. I feel anyone can change for the better or for the worse. I think understanding potential to be better or worse nurtures both hope and humility.

[Crink]

I don't understand how anyone types him LSE over SLE. I do think all STs can be rude due to having ethics and intuition blocked together as their blindspots. Both beta and Delta STs struggle with this until they gain some self awareness. Bill burr is an asshole regardless.

[necrosebud]

if one were to be interested in improving interpersonal skills (for whatever purpose, say they want to get close to someone) it is in their hands to work on something like "being difficult by being blunt"
duality is not magic, it is entirely in the person's hands what they want to do or how they want to behave.

[Sol]

if one were to be interested in improving interpersonal skills

If one with F is interested in improving thinking skills, then should understand there would be lesser of logical criticism actions perceived as "blunt" by F types, as it's where touchy weak region and especially touchy when the criticism in goten with nonvalued T kind accent. Alike when ESTJ interact with INFP / IEI.

The good way to improve skills in some function is close interactions (for example friendship, marriage) with people of types having strong those functions. It's when skills are studed from experts, what is common way to study something. The degree of friendship/love state is important for the influence to study functional skills.
When IR in a function are good then people are far more predisposed to study skills there. With negative IR may happen even the opposite, when due to a wish to protect from influences the attention to weak function may become reduced, and the opinion about appropriate in weak regions to become more egocentric, lesser objective.

It needs controlled experiments or cases of interactions (for example, marriage pairs) with different types to see how a behavior of people changes. What types and other conditions to what changes predispose, in what degree.

[Finaplex]

I think the redeeming quality here is that by and large they "mean well", and its best to keep that in mind when you are dealing with their candor.

Education, socio-economic class, place in the world, influence how they behave. In other words, some live in situations where a gruff external persona is acceptable. Although, in my experience, they are not all like this either. I think they can have a "chirpy" happy type public- personal approach too. People are multi-faceted.

Really though, the point is that they mean well and the content/context of the message matters more than the style of delivery.

BTW, on a related note, they will perform subterfuge, but for the most part that has to do with their own hidden goals. Not every act of charity is from the goodness of their hearts, is what I'm getting at. Everyone can have a angle. It just seems like the four delta types will hedge their bets that you only acknowledge the goodness, and not the more selfishly pragmatic considerations often just behind plain sight. (although even those are often in plain sight lol).

I'm trying to say, "what you see is what you get". But that depends also on how well you can see ; )

[Beautiful sky]

I deal with this lack of ability to communicate with diplomacy and tact especially emotional sensitivity of Estj every stinking day

[serialfriend]

I think LSEs are difficult not only because they can be blunt, but they can be very poor at emotional intelligence. They struggle to name what they're feeling, to know the cause of why they're feeling off, and so on. It's definitely something that I have to exercise a lot of patience for, too.

As for being blunt, I've been hurt a bunch of times by moments like this too. My dual best friend, for example, told me once that "he doesn't want to approach me" which was very hurtful. I knew that he was coming from a place of feeling unloveable, but it's definitely hard to hear that from your best friend.

I believe it's really that logic base that gives them this objective, cold style of communication. To them, it's just honesty and fact. They also tend to prioritize this instead of thinking about how the other person would be affected.

That said, what I do appreciate is that if I tell them they've hurt me or that what they said isn't very nice, they're quick to change. And they actually do change for the better.

[Crink]

The issue I have with LSE is their inability to bond and grow closer to people without being babysat about it. The bluntness doesn't really bother me, it's that they say dumb shit about people without realizing they're wrong. It's the wrong and closed minded part that's annoying. They can't slow their minds down and absorb new information. Like you damn near have to argue with them to get them to hear you, which is annoying and wastes time. And when they decide they don't care about you, there's no empathy at all. They just shut it down, maybe feel bad later about it, maybe not.

[Crink]

LSEs can be cranky. Just the other day I was putting on a moisturizer in the kitchen and my LSE says "can't you do that in the bathroom and not in front of me?"

What the actual duck. Pretty sure this is actual narcissistic abuse. I can't even describe how upsetting this would be. And can't wrap my head around how anyone would think this is okay. It's the opposite of kindness.