"negativist over positivist" literally rules out LIE lol.Originally Posted by sbbds
"negativist over positivist" literally rules out LIE lol.
Don’t take it so literally. You can be a sensor too if you want.
Reinin dichotomies aren’t that OG strictly speaking and can’t be used so absolutely on their own in isolation like that.
Yeah, I'll be an ESFj rather than an ENFjDon’t take it so literally. You can be a sensor too if you want.
Yeah, I'll be an ESFj rather than an ENFjHow about an SEI next? Try all the types, 180 all the way
Well 3s are known for wearing masks, but I was gonna try out IEE next.
I definitely agree with the SF as Social/Personal Politics, as opposed to ST Managerial/technocrat, being logical IS NOT being insensitive-drama seeking. STs generally want results and don't have the desire to contemplate politics.
Your temperament is definitely EJ, Donald Trump (SEE) has "narcissistic", "histrionic" and "sociopathic". ESE really aren't above this unless you are resorting to a biased version of the theory were generally benign values are ascribed as Alpha's FeSi.
Your sociotype will definitely vary depending on the school diagnosing you - so it's not surprising to have divergent analysis.
If I'm an Fe dom, I'm ENFj not ESFj. Reading into quadras, beta is the only fit. Also, if you'd read above - ESEs are positivist, I am negativist.
I would also keep in mind that you’re literally a teenager, and the age period vibe of betas is supposed to be teenagerdom. It might sway things a bit more, just saying.
I do have my own theory of ages & sociotypes that puts LIE type as being more like teenager though. It’s like this:
Alpha/Childhood
IEI
SEE
ESE
EII
Beta/Adolescence
LIE
EIE
IEE
ILE
Gamma/Adulthood
LII
ILI
SLE
LSE
Delta/Senior
SLI
LSI
ESI
SEI
The positivists vs negativists dyad is also poorly understood - socionics gets complicated and tricky, Donald Trump is typed as an SEE despite his very and overtly negative behaviour. The more complicated interpretation is that posivitism is more akin to science's notion of it - singular direct vision, as opposed to being a PC sunshine and rainbows kinda person.
The negativism in INTX is actually more akin to contrarian points of view than simply being negative. If you approach an LII telling them how the situation you are in has no hope, they are likely to look at highlighting all the contrarian insights. It more of a function of operating in reverse.
Holistic vs Contrary are better terminologies for the term, more inline with the practicality. Across differing types.
That’s wrong information; there is no consensus on Donald Trump’s type. The only Socionics authority who types him with a semi-definite opinion is Gulenko. At least as many people online type him SLE / ESTP. So he IS a possible example of negativism as far as we know.
It is true though that there’s no use in using the positive/negativist dichotomy to type definitively.
There's multiple forms of socionics and they all differ by school, it's common knowledge that the theory isn't uniform - school matters when discussing theory. This is regardless of whether you are looking at western or eastern schools, BTW WSS is not compatible with the eastern schools either.
If it matters then the place you get your perspective from should be specified instead of being left open to interpretation, for people to think you mean something is a testament from God when it comes out of your own ass or from somewhere else.
This is all totally true though.
@queentiger My behaviour here is a good example of positivism vs negativism. Note how I zoned in on the untrue aspects to reduce information, first separating away the chaff from the wheat, before looking and dealing more wholly with the wheat. ILEs like Soupman are positivists who think in the opposite manner. Neither of our types are necessarily PC sunshine and flowers.
I have to say I like to borrow from different schools and at times mix-n-match, it's bad and annoying I can't deny, but then again I haven't found a perfect socionics school.There's something wrong with every one of them when you focus on practicality/finer details
BTW after a few years even you will come to have your own socionics derivative, based on what you've personally seen working anecdotally in real life. That's how things work on this forum.
Anyway I personally lean towards Gulenko, and he's got a habit of changing his mind
Woah, somebody hates ESI’s.
@queentiger I think SLE.
I'd say the person that said that is simply delusional and insecure, and is projecting that onto ESIs. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
I'm a very good judge of character, and I'd say that they don't have a good one. So if there is an afterlife, they will suffer much more than you will.
;-D
And even if everything in their story is true, the "sister" may not even be an ESI. So it's more that they are bitter than ESIs being bitchy - which is funny because I really don't get that vibe from ESIs at all.
Thanks for the support. Haha
In truth, we can be mean sometimes! But so can any type.
No prob, I like to support people who are being unfairly treated.
But yeah, any type can be mean and "nasty". So I don't think that is a type thing. It sounds more like a mental health thing.
For sure. That or an unfortunate intertype relation with someone of the type. :/
But yeah, I know you said SLE but after some reflection I think EIE is the best fit.
I am curious though, do you know your enneagram?
Hi, you seem to have a public video on pucokie's YouTube channel. So... based on it I think ESE is a possibility.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Of course he’s ESE
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I'm not a he.
I apologize for my confusion
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Apology accepted, I don't hold grudges.
But yeah, thanks for the help, but I think I know my type now.
Cool! Always nice to figure out your type. I typed ESI early on and then thought I was a bunch of other types before really understanding I am ESI and I’ve been sure of it for a few years now.
When you ask about enneagram do you mean do I know my enneatype or are you asking if I know about that typing system? I have thought I was 7w6 or 6w7, though now that I’m a mom the last time I tested I got a 2w3, which I don’t fully relate to. I would like to take a tritype test though because I read that’s the most updated understanding of how enneagram actually works. How about you?
Oh well, I'm a 3w2-8w7-7w8 so/sx. I was asking because enneagram can make people come across like different types. Now, as my tritype is triple assertive that may make me come off as being more Se (along with it being my hidden agenda of course).
That makes sense to me! I typed SLE given the two options (SLE or LSE), wasn’t really considering other types for you. That said you definitely strike me as a Beta extrovert.
Oh lol, maybe I shouldn't have done that with the title.That makes sense to me! I typed SLE given the two options (SLE or LSE), wasn’t really considering other types for you. That said you definitely strike me as a Beta extrovert.
Also, you seem cool, you got anything else we can talk on?
Thanks. Sorry, but I hate social media so basically no. You can always PM me here though. =}
Ohhh haha, will do
ESTj can definitely be eliminated for you.
Based on what you've said:
- I'm pretty blunt and I tell it as it is
- My friends have said they admire how I do not let anyone walk all over me
The above are both pretty typical of Beta and Gamma sensing types, with their extroverted sensing. Extroverted sensing types in general are unlikely to let anyone "walk all over them". Meekness in Beta and Gamma quadras is perceived as a weakness. They are more likely to be confrontational and will not back down if they feel threatened. ESTjs, on the other hand, will tend to avoid confrontation when possible.
- I don't like people who can't take a joke
Sounds a lot like Beta. As a serious quadra, Delta and Gamma types will be more reserved and much more careful in what they say, compared to Beta.
- I like being controversial
Definitely a Beta trait. ESTjs generally try to avoid controversy. Betas are not afraid of creating conflict and stirring people up, and often enjoy it.
- I have always been popular at school - I'm the queen bee/ the Regina George.
The 'queen bee' mentality is a Beta/Gamma trait. Extroverted sensing likes to assert power and influence over others.
- I am often the first to take action in a situation, I'm not one to sit around and moan if I have made no attempt to solve the issue
Definitely an extroverted sensing trait. ESTps and ESFps will be the first to take action in situations. They are impulsive and don't spend a lot of time deliberating on things - they prefer to just do it and get it done.
- I am a natural leader, I am able to organise people and be like "you do this, you do that"
ESTjs are very hard on themselves, and they will push and motivate themselves, but they will not apply this to other people. They are usually not bossy or pushy, at all. Those are misconceptions from MBTI's ESTJ, which is an entirely different type from LSE and actually resembles the SLE more. Organizing people is a Beta ST trait (likely from Fe working with Ti), and they may be the stereotypical 'micromanagers'.
- I am really assertive, quite confident and dominant in social situations. I have no issue approaching people and talking to them.
This indicates strong extroverted sensing.
Overall, I would say you are a Beta extrovert.
I see that you now list yourself as EIE. That could fit based on what you've said, though I wouldn't describe EIEs as "realistic" or practical by any means. Definitely Beta quadra. You also said you're interested in journalism, which seems to attract a lot of Beta NFs as well. Nothing you've said rules out ESTp, though. That could still be a possibility but more information would be needed to determine that for sure.
Turns out the realistic/practical thing may have been exaggerated. Isn't it funny how you can see a certain trait in yourself but then when you start comparing that to others, you realise you don't. But take a look at things like this:
- I have visions that have often come true
- I am interested in witchcraft, the occult, gemstones etc.
- I am into conspiracy theories and the paranormal
- I love games such as chess
- You say about impulsiveness -I wouldn't consider myself impulsive. Yes I do take action, however with everything I do I am always aware of the consequences.
- The way I want power is much more subtle, I want power of influence. Not direct forceful power, but manipulative power.
I don't like quarrelling at all, but if i was allowed to, i would love to end you before you are able to inflict serious harm on other human beings.
There is nothing than hate for people flaunting their amorality like this, like "look how cool i am with all my sociopathic traits"
I hope there is a big dose of narcissism in it, and you don't have as much potential to hurt people as you wish you would.
I feel extremely repulsed and disgusted by reading your posts and imho there is no excuse in the world to be like you are.
I don't care how old you are, i don't care about anything of this, it does not matter if you have young or old people as your peers to wound, i just wish for a world where people like you don't exist.
I don't want to hurt anyone....
But go ahead, end my pathetic existence.
Don't want to play, just needed to clean myself from this, nvm.
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