She’s SEE, distant subtype probably H with accentuation on R and avoidance of public conflict.
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She’s SEE, distant subtype probably H with accentuation on R and avoidance of public conflict.
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I agree with the ESE typings. Perhaps she is even the ultimate ESE. I’m a fan.
her music is like a Keats poemKeats-IEI.
Relationships seem very important to her. She's sociable, but not actively trying to make an impression. Focused on doing what feels right to her at the time. I think she's more of a Humanitarian vs. a Socialite. There's Introversion but she's also opportunity-seeking and doesn't seem to be one who wants to be tied-down. I think EII fits that picture pretty well.
How about we type people that behave like this as Fe valuing
and people that speak like this as Fi valuing
so we don't make this nonsense mistake like Jack from WSS to type Taylor Swift as EII.
Taylor is Delta NF and EII is very close. I'd bet on IEE.
Originally Posted by hellohellohello
You don't get to make it true just by repeating it. Deltas make relationships a 'serious' issue and Swift vibes Fe. It will take you time because you're probably newly-arrived in Socionics. First things first: a focus on her relationships in her songs is not what makes her Delta, it's how she does it.
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I've been studying Socionics since 2015/2016. Don't let my join date fool you. She's not Fe valuing. Like Alive, if you can't see what Fe is and think Taylor Swift IS that, I would re-evaluate your understanding of Fe.
So what is Fe?
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Fe is setting the tone for the emotional atmosphere. It is attuned to the emotions of others, knows how to raise them, knows how to dismantle them. Fe is the person who engages crowds and does not resort to creating/repelling strong relationships with others. If you are watching interviews of celebrities, politicians, etc. they are the ones who are focused on larger values of "the people". Again, they are concerned with raising or lowering the tone of the emotional atmosphere of the people around them.
ESE - ESEs can be identified in their willingness to raise the emotional atmosphere. Get people going. Make people happy. They are focused on positive emotions and maximizing them. I believe WSS refers to them as "The Host" and that is something I can agree with them on. They are the stereotypical party-planners, making sure everyone is in good spirits.
EIE - EIEs are emotionally expressive as well, however, this takes the form of suppressing negative emotions. They tend to be more dramatic. Emotions build up and build up and build up until BOOM: cathartic release.
SEI - SEIs can be quite strange. They like to stir up trouble and cause a ruckus, but they do this to bring forth positive emotions. They are typically the "class-clown".
IEI - IEIs are much like SEIs in that they like to fool around, but it's not in the sense of playing practical jokes on people. They are the ones to inspire hope, have a dreamy mentality, and focus on including everyone in that dreamy landscape of theirs.
Your dual (at least one of the subtypes more than the other(s)) enjoys pushing people 'into a corner' by the things they say, for example, hinting at vindictiveness. That is their Fe.
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Sounds like Se to me.
That alone lets me know you haven't been around enough of your duals. No, it's not Se. It's even in their description:
The EIE often refers to the object of his jokes with an affectionate irony and an aire of lenient superiority, as if he is now positioned above him, in some other world, where the entire absurdity and awkwardness of the behavior of his subject of his attention is particularly evident to him. EIE's jokes usually have mystifying and mystic black humor undernotes. ("Daniel, here's what I have done for you ... – are you scared?! - I've left you some food. If you don't eat it up, I will then... – scared?! – I will eat it myself! And only try to not drink the milk. I will feed it to the dogs!! – scared now?! No, not you - the milk of course!.."). Creating an oppressive, tense situation comes naturally to the EIE. He can accomplish this in almost any state – good mood, poor mood, from boredom, from having little to do.
Strati is putting it mildly. There are some that will use every opportunity to let you know how they'll get back at you. It's a 'drama class' in an endless loop with some of them. That said, I'm not pushing EIE for Taylor. I think it's close enough: IEI-C.
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Okay, let me ask you this. Why are you going off descriptions that somebody else wrote that may not be correct to base your thinking off of? Why don't you understand what each function does and try to identify them in people on your own?
Basing your thinking off of hearsay is not going to end well. You don't even know what the author was trying to get at. How do you know your interpretation of their writing was correct in accordance with the theory that you are trying to push?
I agree with @Rusal in this. I know a few EIEs and they can apply a lot of pressure to people in a situation through endless drama.
An LII once gave her EIE manager a book called "How to Deal with Difficult People", and said to him "See what you made me buy?" And she is his Semi-Dual and seeks Fe, but she was having a really, really hard time with his drama.
I know the guy. Yes, endless pressure. He's not that healthy, but about 80% of EIEs fall into this category. The other 20% are great people.
That you're denying the very trait that makes EIE, well, EIE, is quite telling.
Nothing I can do there. Until you come across one and then you'll see.
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geez, hello should work with Jack. both are equally close-minded while having not much to show. both are maybe IEI-N with very rigid Ti. irritates me in a similar way.
isn't this a nice Fi valuing environment where LIE and EII would feel comfortable? all these non-expressive, internal feelings...
(Gulenko's Team types Taylor Swift as LSI btw.) it's a difficult world in socionicsland...
What is the very trait you were referring to? Being emotionally expressive, riling people up, being empathetic and somewhat a bit goofy and out of place in daily situations? Being extremely quirky? None of which you said.
Yikes. It's like you were talking to a mirror. How is telling someone they are wrong, when they are indeed wrong, close-minded? Isn't it the other person who is close-minded?
It's almost like that was set up for her by people other than her? I don't know if you know how the music industry works?
and where are you getting the typing of LSI from? Lol
Well, in Socionics, it’s really hard to PROVE right and wrong. Celebrity typing gives everyone a chance to say what they think and to try to “prove” their point, but it should be kept in mind that there is no blood test for type.
you are nuts if you think that Fi valuing types are even remotely comfortable in environments with strong emotional expressions. you studied socionics since 2015 and you don't even understand the basic difference of Fi vs Fe. it's embarrasing. then you treat your subjective warped impression of what these functions are as true. I discuss typings occasionally with gulenko's team on skype.
watch the part from 2:20 on. how can you seriously think this is Fi? I don't get it.
I will admit, I think that everyone in that video is crazy.
Still, if they want to live like that, it’s none of my business.
Hinting at vindictiveness hence why Swift's songs can be an extension of emotional 'cutthroat' statements EIEs sometimes make when they 'create' one of their shows. Forget about her type now (although it's interesting that Gulenko's team has her as LSI), I'm just saying you should keep in mind this very quality of EIEs. It'll help you out.
@Alive, weren't you supposed to start a course with Gulenko around this time? It'll be interesting to see if your typing process changes after it (if you ever take it).
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Fi-Ego types are fine in emotionally expressive environments? What are you talking about? They're Ethical types!! The types that wouldn't be fine and be turned away from that would be any type that doesn't value Fe and has low Fi. Particularly ILI or SLI, as Fe is their weak point.
Taylor Swift is not even remotely close to LSI.
What did she do? Walk into a room of fans and scream "Hi guys!" and jump around for a bit? Most likely just to get photos and video for publishing purposes? Wow so Fe!!! Yet she displays none when she is being interviewed?
I have done the course but tbh, it was a bit boring. they only send me texts of the skype session since I don't speak russian so there was no point in participating and the transcripts basically just contained information that I already knew from wikisocion or socioniks.net
tbh, with the way I type now I think I just go into a different direction than gulenko. he thinks EIE's are the philosophers, I thinks they are IEI. I also don't like that he types most people here as LSI. it makes zero sense. it seems to me that the differences are too difficult to overcome and I just want to focus on my own perception which I feel is the right one. I ask Anastasiia why he types so many people as LSI even though they have Ne as PolR and she just said LSI is a common type. great...
it's more interesting to me to filter out what functions can do (Ni+ = artistic creativity, Ti- = mathematics and so on). I am aware that EIE have Ni- but Taylor Swift was named after James Taylor so I suspect that she has creative parents that might have had a significant role in her creativity.
Why would an EIE be so focused on creating songs specifically about their relationships? Maybe something a little more regarding the state of the world and where it is heading? Something broader scale but still humanitarian, you think?
It makes zero sense because your understanding is off? How would an irrational type, especially intuitive, be fixated on bringing thoughts to the world in the lines of philosophy? Wouldn't that take a rational function? Especially one that is focused on "the people" coupled with Ni & Ne?
Well, now, this is interesting. I have always thought that Taylor Swift was SEI-Fe because she looks very much like a woman of that type whom I know.
But having watched the video, I can definitely see EIE as a possibility.
I’m still having a hard time seeing her as a Victim rather than a Caregiver.
@two, I don’t think that Taylor is a weirdo, because she’s a lot like the SEI-Fe whom I know and like.* But her fans….. Yes, they are weirdos.
@Alive is correct about me not feeling comfortable in that kind of environment.
*I like the SEI-Fe because she’s a terrific person, but I make it a point to never talk too much with her.
Once, during a Christmas party, she’d had a few drinks and started to tell me about her life and I could see that there were miles between us. I really wanted out of there.
I still feel that she’s a terrific person, but the difference in values is startling.
I would never be around such environments either, but I have 1D Fe, and she has 4D Fe. I think later she realizes how cringe a lot of these moments are and she plays a bit of an act. like when the guy calls her barbie, I don't think she enjoyed that, but sharing emotions with other people is more important during such moments so she goes along with it.
For future reference, this is Fe (ESE): https://youtu.be/GnYYqele-G4
and this is Fe (EIE): https://youtu.be/i5f8bqYYwps
Neither of which are remotely Taylor Swift. Thank you.
Well, I'm no longer trying to bend the world to my tastes. But I agree with her, that they look like goofy clownish acts to me.
Steve Jobs is an IEI. You're just posting the same typings that Gulenko and Jack have made. What's the point? What does Fe have to do with being a pioneer of the personal computer revolution??
Are you not watching interviews and how functions are being displayed? Also, look at temperament. Steve Jobs is not relaxed and go with the flow. He's actually pretty restless during interviews.
I'm posting them because they are very good examples of the types? I don't know what else you're looking for there?
Being a pioneer of the personal computer revolution doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Fe, but it certainly tells you something about having strong Ne. Same goes for Woz (ILE).
Ah yeah Fe base, the kind of types that look at the ground all the time when they do interviews. It's whatever. No point in continuing this..
If a Beta ST releases a whole album about their sadistic and emotionally staturated relationships does that make them Delta? You’re going about it wrong, in my opinion. Imagine Delta music more like a grown-up meditation on relationships and pondering of life and situations so much so that you, as a Beta, recognize Delta NF by their very ehmmm ‘serious’ approach and every Fe-seeking comment falls flat in their presence. A video wrecking someone’s car while singing ‘I’m insane’ sounds a bit more on the side of emotional turmoil. Actually, now that LSI has been mentioned as a possibility for her..if Taylor ever partook in things like that an argument could be made for low connection to their feeling side (EIE would more likely threaten with something like that).
It’s possible. But that is not the whole scope of Fe in EIE. It many times may refer to how they present it outwardly: in the form of a storm in a teacup. They might worry about bigger topics but keep in mind that the first notes that come through (yes, they’re a fragrance now) is with a bit of ‘superficiality’ just by the scope of things they choose to make a scene about. Also, their music need not be about the state of the world per se. Tim Minchin is EIE I think and listen to this great piece:
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Are you serious? Steve Jobs is incredibly emotionally expressive throughout that whole interview? Are you dumb, stupid, or dumb? Huh?
I will gladly Venmo you $100 to get typed by Gulenko and have your perception of yourself messed with almost immediately. Shit, I'll do it for this whole forum if that's what it will take to get everyone on the same page for once.
IEE but sure
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