Check this out, you guys.
"The Muslim Invasion of Europe 2017"
Check this out, you guys.
This is going to sound extreme and shock some people, but I don't believe that Germany should have to take in a SINGLE refugee. Because the United States and Britain should be forced to take 100% of the refugees fleeing ISIS; they, and they alone should reap the consequences of destroying Iraq and leaving a power vacuum for ISIS to form.
The rest of the NATO countries, like France, but also Britain and the United States, should be the ones taking responsibility for Libyan refugees, the result of a power vacuum they created when they removed Gaddafi in 2011 and let the country be divided up between rival warlords.
Last edited by xerx; 10-27-2017 at 03:38 AM.
Disparate cultures
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
My country owes no one anything, and nor can an economy that runs on white-collar work by college graduates afford to extend its infrastructures and social services to uneducated outsiders who probably couldn't generate the wealth they're worth. Our economy's bad enough as it is. More people starve a year in America than in Venezuela. Thousands of Americans are gonna die for lack of treatment because of that repealed healthcare bill. What about our country? This migration cannot be allowed to reach us.
Bleeding-hearts can go eat a dick.
Also the Crusades were a response to Islamic aggression.
Last edited by Grendel; 10-27-2017 at 04:34 AM.
Post-2003 Iraq had to pay billions of dollars in war reparations to its filthy-rich neighbour Kuwait while Iraq had unfed, unhoused orphans dying in the streets. This is what taking responsibility for your actions has meant for others.
As Colin Powell said, in one of his more redeeming moments, about the Middle East: "you break it you buy it".
Moreover, historical irony demands that Britain and America, and perhaps the rest of Western Europe become Muslim countries. (:
Last edited by xerx; 11-03-2017 at 04:39 AM.
No one has to take in refugees - you create safe zones and keep them there, bring the war to a close, and send them home. And the war is gradually coming to a close, alot of progress has been made on that front. The refugees themselves prefer this when polled... It's cheaper, it's smarter... better in every way.Originally Posted by xerx
I find that hard to believe, but even if it were true, Britain and the USA still deserve to become Muslim countries.
Why is it hard to believe that the Syrian refugees want to return home? Regardless, it's true so you can disbelieve it all you want. Not really interested in your juvenile angst at the united states.
Oh, I believe many do want to return home. I'd be surprised if even more didn't want to raise their kids in a safe, more prosperous country. Syria is going to be a hellscape for generations.
It's not juvenile to expect personal responsibility from others. Letting Britain and America wash their hands clean of this whole saga is called "the soft bigotry of low expectations".Not really interested in your juvenile angst at the united states.
It's a display of narcissism that you flatly assume they all would immediately prefer to leave their homes and move to the U.S.. Fact is they don't.
Actually Syrians largely hate the united states, they hate our culture... they consider it a corrupting influence.
Are you kidding? People in the Middle East (worldwide, actually) are enormously intrigued by American culture, and have been since the 1960s. I once watched this trashy show called Battling Babes on Saudi TV with Arabic subtitles.
You are talking about the country that a year ago was largely controlled by ISIS. That didn't happen without large portions of the public supporting the cause... One commercialized bullshit TV show isn't gona show you what the culture is thinking ... Women in Syria by and large still wear veils and do not show any leg skin... Many hate the West and hate America. Syria is probably the most fundamentalist Islamic country along with Iran. You watched one TV show and concluded Syrians love the united states? It was some commercialized crap show and you said to yourself: "they are all so ready to be americanized!". I don't understand what you are basing this on.
Even in a more westernized Islamic country like Turkey, it's not just across the board everyone embraces American values wholeheartedly - not at all. They have accepted some level of prosperity that trading with the West offers, they haven't abandoned their culture or their religion...they are still fundamentally opposed to the Wests values... They are religiously opposed to the corrupt greedy Jews and the banking system, they still believe we are destroying the planet.. many of them side against Israel and blame America for supporting Israel / interfering throughout the middle east... You talk as if the entire country is just jumping up and down for America, I don't know where you got that idea.
Last edited by rat200Turbo; 10-27-2017 at 05:40 AM.
They didn't have to take them, it was a plan (Merkel actually still says it implicitly when directly asked) -
http://www.un.org/esa/population/pub.../migration.htm
It's an official united nations paper btw, not some bollocks random website.Finally, the new challenges being brought about by declining and ageing populations will require
objective, thorough and comprehensive reassessments of many established economic, social and political
policies and programmes. Such reassessments will need to incorporate a long-term perspective. Critical
issues to be addressed in those reassessments would include (a) appropriate ages for retirement; (b) levels,
types and nature of retirement and health-care benefits for the elderly; (c) labour-force participation; (d)
assessed amounts of contributions from workers and employers needed to support retirement and healthcare
benefits for the increasing elderly population; and (e) policies and programmes relating to
international migration, in particular replacement migration, and the integration of large numbers of
recent migrants and their descendants
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I did some primary schooling in the Middle East (with a short stint in Vietnam), and I know the region extremely well.
Syria has been one of the most secular Arabic countries ever since it was established. So was Iraq, since independence until the American invasion. It was repeated Western meddling that caused these countries to turn into fundamentalist shit-holes, and somebody has to pay the price for all the misery caused by these decisions.
This is an hour long PBS documentary where the narrator travels around the parts of Syria still held by Assad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdxeSd8JGCc
You can see:
* people going to dance clubs, women showing skin
* FEMALE SOLDIERS fighting for the regime
* booze
* western-style symphony orchestras
* far fewer women wearing head coverings than you'd expect from a "fundamentalist culture" (there were still quite a few, presumably more conservative women)
* models & beach babes
It looks like a stock Mediterranean country, although more conservative (ETA: something like a Muslim 1950s) and less developed. Many of those refugees are fleeing from ISIS, btw.
So is the alt-right. Look up all the anti-Semitic shit that David Duke has to say. These alleged "Jew haters" ought to fit right in with mainstream MAGA culture. (:They are religiously opposed to the corrupt greedy Jews and the banking system, they still believe we are destroying the planet.. many of them side against Israel and blame America for supporting Israel / interfering throughout the middle east... You talk as if the entire country is just jumping up and down for America, I don't know where you got that idea.
As for destroying the planet; global climate change is part of the causes of the refugee crisis.
Last edited by xerx; 10-27-2017 at 06:37 AM.
tbh the refugee crisis is kinda worrying. its simply not possible to import millions of people to europe on top of an economic crisis and three/four decades of solid migration. the right wing response is only just beginning. I am worried thay Europe will return to its tradition of slaughtering and brutalising each other but its ok because we here are an island and can isolate ourselves. preferably we wont take a single more refugee so the rightist reaction will be quite limited and then once Europe sets itself alight again we will have to wait for the power of the mobilised new world behind us before we can sort it out.... again
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
yes lets have a muslim vs nazi civil war in two nuclear armed states that sounds like a good idea
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
intake -> less people to consume limited resources -> more reproduction-> intake > less people to consume limited resources -> more reproduction-> intake ->.... ->
Until there is no room for intake. Some has to stop this loop before it is too late.
To find effective lasting solution means that the fix has to be happen where they live.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
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Meanwhile USA says what to do other countries in Europe and makes wars everywhere, banks press real industry as they want, but they talk about some millions of disorganised and untrained mislims, which are most probably under good control of same USA and banks.
I'd say those "muslims" can be used as the excuse to change political and economical norms in Europe to lesser humane ones, so the more profit went to minority of people. It's fascism to do such and that's why they artificially(!) stimulate and popularize the problem of different nations/cultures/ethinicities - it's the smell of Adolf, which was not so long ago and which was supported by many ones in Britain and USA. That Adolf was openly against communists, while communists were the main power to establish more humane political systems in today Europe.
Sum the factors, think who may get the profit from ethnical huliganism. And you'll find the reason.
Looks like you didn't even watch the documentary.
A quote from the documentary: "The government is working hard to put on a good face - for this purpose they launched the 'Summer in Syria' festival consisting of dancers, night life, beaches..."
Most of what you've mentioned is stated within your own video to be government generated tourism propaganda.. lol.
"It was repeated Western meddling that caused these countries to turn into fundamentalist shitholes". You need to go actually read the Qu'ran. That country has been fundamentalist for 1000 years. Who do you think the rebels fighting Assad are? They're Muslim radical ideologues, and they're not a super small minority.
Most of this isn't even relevant... Yeah I also went to primary school in the middle east, and while I was there some random Muslim tried to run me down with a car for being American ... Most people in Syria are very conservative, the night club, etc. is just the more flashy liberal side of the cities... it's not the majority culture in the cities, at all, and outside the cities you don't see anything like that. Yes they hate the U.S. and you could say that's our fault for our meddling (they actually would still hate the West regardless, they've hated the West and the Jews for thousands of years), but the U.S. definitely did not make them ultra conservative. ...
Conservative isn't a great way of describing them, anyway. MAGA people believe in capitalism, Muslim fundamentalists believe in the caliphate - that belief comes straight from Islam.
There's not much more to say about this.
Last edited by rat200Turbo; 10-27-2017 at 12:52 PM.
Umm, no.
Real fundamentalists aren't coy about their beliefs. You'd never catch ISIS generating "government tourism propaganda" with night life and dancers.
Historically, Islamic countries have been much more favourably disposed to Jews than European Christiandom has been."It was repeated Western meddling that caused these countries to turn into fundamentalist shitholes". You need to go actually read the Qu'ran. That country has been fundamentalist for 1000 years.
Most of this isn't even relevant... Yeah I also went to primary school in the middle east, and while I was there some random Muslim tried to run me down with a car for being American ... Most people in Syria are very conservative, the night club, etc. is just the more flashy liberal side of the cities... it's not the majority culture in the cities, at all, and outside the cities you don't see anything like that. Yes they hate the U.S. and you could say that's our fault for our meddling (they actually would still hate the West regardless, they've hated the West and the Jews for thousands of years), but the U.S. definitely did not make them ultra conservative. ...
Conservative isn't a great way of describing them, anyway. MAGA people believe in capitalism, Muslim fundamentalists believe in the caliphate - that belief comes straight from Islam.
There's not much more to say about this.
Also, Islam isn't 'thousands' of years old; it's only about 1400.
Last edited by xerx; 10-27-2017 at 11:57 PM.
Well you say "Um.. No" but that's what your documentary stated. Like I quoted it verbatim.
The fact you would say "historically Islamic countries have been more favourably disposed to the Jews", it proves you have never read the Qur'an. Muslims truly hate Jews.. There are long anti-semitic diatribes within the Qu'ran ...
There are literally large rebel groups spontaneously forming within the culture, inspired to topple the government and establish a Muslim caliphate, who in turn identify with ISIS... that's how the movement has grown.
You're actually just projecting your pubescent anti-American sentiment onto Muslims and identifying with them, and shooting down any Western notion of there being a problem. It's an irrational attitude you've got, but you can believe what you want - I can't convince you of anything.
Have a nice day.
Last edited by rat200Turbo; 10-27-2017 at 01:36 PM.
I'm a bored and self-centered American. someone humor me by telling me how this affects me
Had 600,000 refugees been shipped here you would have seen terrorist attacks all over the country. It could still happen, I guess, depending on the next election and whether the war is over by then. Already happening in Europe, their media is not reporting on it very much.
Sure, send em here. We'll break em in.
It never surprised me in the least when Trump enacted and repeatedly enforced the Muslim travel ban. North Americans were watching this on TV for 2015, 2016, 2017 and they said (well - Trump supporters openly and I'm sure many privately) 'not in my country'.
America was never a multi-cultural society, I remember learning this for the first time in grade 7 social studies class. They are a melting pot. You go to America is become American.
The rich economies have a moral obligation to take in refugees. You may find much Islamic dogma to be fundamentalist and violent, and Muslims tending to have backward and deeply conservative views compared to the rest of society, but the negative consequences of not allowing in refugees greatly outweighs the risk of taking them in.
I think the sole responsibility for any atrocities being committed lies solely with those carrying them out or condoning them.
"Umm, no" as in that doesn't make the secular government of Syria a fundamentalist government.
What the Qu'ran says or doesn't say is irrelevant. The point is that, empirically, Christian civilization has had a much worse track record than Muslim civilization with respect to Jews. Trying to paper over that record with terms like "Judeo-christian civilization", as some inane pundits do, is quite frankly offensive to victims of the holocaust and other pogroms.The fact you would say "historically Islamic countries have been more favourably disposed to the Jews", it proves you have never read the Qur'an. Muslims truly hate Jews.. There are long anti-semitic diatribes within the Qu'ran ...
There are literally large rebel groups spontaneously forming within the culture, inspired to topple the government and establish a Muslim caliphate, who in turn identify with ISIS... that's how the movement has grown.
ha ha ha ha ha.You're actually just projecting your pubescent anti-American sentiment onto Muslims and identifying with them, and shooting down any Western notion of there being a problem. It's an irrational attitude you've got, but you can believe what you want - I can't convince you of anything.
Have a nice day.
Last edited by xerx; 10-27-2017 at 06:38 PM.
No such thing as morality. It's you or them.
I think most people are in favour of minimizing pain and maximizing happiness, although admittedly, that does go against Islamic dogma.
We make a big risk of radically destabilising the society by introducing so many refugees. It's better to just leave the Continentals/FRONTEX to deal w/ it.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
Why are you talking about the government? We're not talking about the Syrian government policies, we're talking about the culture and the people. Syria is by and large an Islamic fundamentalist country - the most fundamentalist Islamic country next to Iran ... in other words: the refugee population contains a high percentage Islamic fundamentalists. That is the point. That has always been the point. Incase you forgot, the OP and every comment afterwards is about the refugee population and the prospect of bringing those refugees into the Western society.
I hope you understand.
The claim is that the religion of the fundamentalist religious refugee population is irrelevant because Germany killed more total Jews... ? I don't understand, there is no logical connection between the two points whatsoever. I can't even think of a good comparison to describe how moronic this argument is. It's like saying... to a jury: "the defendant is innocent - OJ Simpson was guilty. I rest my case" ... Amazing that you could think this was relevant.
Last edited by rat200Turbo; 10-27-2017 at 10:49 PM.
I think the main crux of this issue is that the majority of supposed refugees to European nations are not refugees, but rather economic immigrants. I am all for Europe bringing in refugee families from Syria that desperately need help from their war torn nation.
However, the refugee crisis is used as an excuse to bring in multitudes of economic immigrants that are usually young males that are self-entitled and taking advantage of the generous welfare systems of these Western European nations. The reason for this is due to the declining European birth rate and economic immigrants that are not being screened are being used to fill the void.
The solution is simple, only allow true refugees from Syria to enter Europe and heavily screen the economic immigrants so those that can actually contribute to the economy and well being of the nation can enter, the rest will be forbidden because they will be nothing, but a drain to the system.
The US and Canada only allow immigrants that will contribute to the economy, but for some reason Europe lets in everyone without screening them, treating them all as refugees when they aren't.
This image helps illustrate my point that most immigrants in Europe are not really refugees, but rather economic immigrants:
Last edited by Raver; 10-28-2017 at 12:42 AM.
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The documentary gives you a good, broad look at a very secular Syrian population. I don't know what you think a fundamentalist is, but none of those people were head-chopping, hate-filled fundamentalists. Most of them seemed centrist with liberal or conservative leanings, wanting to get on with their lives.
There are quite a few videos on YouTube showing Syrians expressing jubilation over being liberated from ISIS. Do note that, while these are only three videos, they are three more pieces of evidence than what you've produced thus far:
* Liberated Syrian women burning their Burqas and men shaving their beards
* Girl takes off Niqab after escaping ISIS frontlines
* More Niqab burning and beard cutting
Hardly the picture of a population yearning to live a fundamentalist lifestyle. IME, given the opportunity, a super-majority of people express interest in / easily adjust (over time) to living a secular life. I know this because I'm deeply familiar with many immigrants from the Middle East. Europe and its offshoots have strong laws RE: separation of church and state which migrants WILL adjust to over time.
Saudi Arabia, ironically (or perhaps not ironically) our ally, is far and away the most fundamentalist country in the Middle East. This is an elementary fact which you repeatedly fail to mention.
Stop deliberately misunderstanding me. That rebuttal was a specific response to your spurious claim about Muslims being hard-wired by the Qu'ran to hate Jews, which is complete bullshit. Jews and Muslims get along fine wherever there's no political baggage, some are even best friends. American Muslims overwhelmingly voted for Bernie Sanders, a Jew from Brooklyn.The claim is that the religion of the fundamentalist religious refugee population is irrelevant because Germany killed more total Jews... ? I don't understand, there is no logical connection between the two points whatsoever. I can't even think of a good comparison to describe how moronic this argument is. It's like saying... to a jury: "the defendant is innocent - OJ Simpson was guilty. I rest my case" ... Amazing that you could think this was relevant.
And stop bringing the Qu'ran into this. Even if the Qu'ran told Muslims to cannibalize & skull-fuck every single Jew, it wouldn't matter, because how people act is very different from what's nominally expected of them.
Last edited by xerx; 10-27-2017 at 11:00 PM.
Xerx, ISIS is just a conglomeration of rebel groups in Iraq and Syria joining together in the name of reestablishing the caliphate. ISIS formed out of the Syrian population. It's not an occupying group from some other land. ISIS is literally just rebel groups in Iraq and Syria that joined together. How can you possibly claim that the Syrian population does not hold fundamentalist religious anti-western views, and produce rebels, when their population is literally spontaneously generating ISIS affiliated groups? Yeah there are people glad that ISIS left - the population is divided. It's like.. some people hate Trump, some people don't. Right? There isn't some uniform love of the West in Syria... it's a ridiculous argument. What do you think the caliphate that ISIS is fighting to establish is? It's the caliphate promised in the Qu'ran. How can you say the Qu'ran is not relevant? The entire war is ABOUT what's in the Quran. You literally point to a few pieces of anecdotal evidence and act like that's going to convince me that this religious war is not rampant in Syria, or related with a Muslim fundamentalist culture? Like some pointless anecdote about a show where women are beating one another is adequate proof of anything? I don't even see where your disagreement could be. Is there not a religious war happening? It baffles me that you are still arguing this.
Last edited by rat200Turbo; 10-27-2017 at 11:22 PM.
Statistics regarding UK Muslims:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7...muslims-survey
The survey does show that 88% of British Muslims believe Britain is a good place for Muslims to live. According to Philips, this is because the tolerance they enjoy in Britain allows them to do whatever they want.The 615-page survey found that more than 100,000 British Muslims sympathize with suicide bombers and people who commit other terrorist acts. Moreover, only one in three British Muslims (34%) would contact the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with jihadists.
In addition, 23% of British Muslims said Islamic Sharia law should replace British law in areas with large Muslim populations.
On social issues, 52% of the Muslims surveyed said they believe homosexuality should be illegal, compared to 22% of non-Muslim Britons. Nearly half believe it is unacceptable for a gay or lesbian to teach their children. At the same time, almost a third (31%) of British Muslims think polygamy should be legalized. Among 18-to-24-year-olds, 35% think it is acceptable to have more than one wife.I think it is legitimate to be wary when such views are endemic in a population.Thirty-nine percent of Muslims surveyed believe women should always obey their husbands, compared to 5% for non-Muslims. One in three British Muslims refuse completely to condemn the stoning of women accused of adultery.
The poll also found that a fifth of British Muslims have not entered the home of a non-Muslim in the past year.
Of the British Muslims surveyed, 35% believe Jewish people have too much power in the UK, compared to 8% of non-Muslims.
The reason why the ISIS is there is because there is no longer law and order, there is destabilization in the region because the US decided to overthrow their governments but never bothered to think about what they should do afterwards. They thought that there would automatically be "democracy" if only they got rid of the dictators. Obviously that's not how things work because you're ignoring the historical contexts. Democracy is a progress and it builds up on previous developments, it doesn't arise spontaneously after when there is a violent revolution or takeover.
And you wonder why there are terrorist extremists when the US has been bombing the crap out of them. They think that the only strategy is to counter with terrorism because there is great discrepancy in power relations.
Al Queda arose from a vacuum in Iraq but then Al Queda joined forces with rebel groups in Syria, formed ISIS, and toppled the government there. It was the rebel groups who overthrew the government in Syria, in large part funded by the West... The rebel groups are fundamentalist Muslim groups. Right? The rebel groups were made up of the Syrian population itself.
The rebel groups joined ISIS - ISIS is the larger umbrella of many smaller rebel groups. When we fund the rebels we are essentially funding ISIS. The united states funded ISIS (I've said that many times), but ISIS literally IS made up of the Syrian population.
The rebel groups that toppled the government (parts of it) - ISIS - did not initially arise in a vacuum in Syria.. they created that vacuum when they toppled the government.. the cultural conditions were there to generate that rebellion and to sustain it, the West simply took hold of that fire and fostered it / channeled it.
Of course there are fundamentalists in Syria. duh!!! There are fundamentalists everywhere:
If America was invaded and its government destroyed, there would probably be Christian fundamentalists driving around in pick-up trucks with gun racks, extra-judiciously killing abortion doctors. They could take over entire towns and force people to go to church through threat of violence. It doesn't mean that the typical pro-lifer supports vigilante execution, even if he hates abortion. It doesn't mean that the typical Christian supports intimidation, even if he believes that everyone is helped by going to church. The typical Christian is just a hostage to violent thugs with whom he has an unwanted tribal affiliation.
The point is that it's always a small minority (of Betas) that does this evil shit.
If American Christian refugees started pouring into a more liberal country, there would be xenophobic people bringing up the fact that X% of American Christians don't support abortion, that the cultures are incompatible as a result, and that bringing in refugees poses a violent threat against abortion clinics and religious freedom.
You need to cut people more slack.
Last edited by fox; 10-28-2017 at 09:20 PM.
Negative consequences for whom? Who do the negative consequences affect? What are the negative consequences of both options, according to you? And I think you're vastly underestimating the negative consequences of taking them in. Already, there has been a large increase in the incidence of rape in European countries as a result of taking in refugees. That's why the earned the term "rapefugees." Do you not think rape is a negative consequence?
Last edited by Aramas; 10-28-2017 at 05:28 PM.
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