Te/Fi vs Fe/Ti and Ne/Si vs Ni/Se preference in communication

[bolong]

Interesting poll! I think this generally reflects the U.S... I know there's a good representation of non American on this forum, but I still hold that a preference for interacting through Te/Fi is found more among Americans/the West/white people

[lemontrees]

I'm not sure! I am scared of being judged by deltas, and betas are more "fun," but maybe in casual settings it's more relaxing to share Ne/Si. I think if my own quadra weren't available, I would maybe relax amongst deltas but marry a beta.

[marooned]

jackass and johnny knoxville aren't largely beta... ok...

[marooned]

at least we agree knoxville is lead. i was so afraid you were going to say he was lead. knoxville *really* didn't seem like an ethical type to me, though i thought he enjoyed .

also, i didn't pay attention to most of the people when i watched jackass. but i thought the antics were like an over-the-top definition of supposed beta group dynamics.

i just feel like if "raw Fi" means a lot of loud emotional expression it's actually . i see "raw Fi" as where we sit down and talk about our feelings sincerely (or insincerely with the possible intent to deceive). i see loud boisterous emotional demonstrations as more like "raw Fe." certain types, like SEE, can display a fair amount of imo, but it's not instead "raw Fi" just because the SEE values > . no, it is still .

i feel like i'm in the twilight zone here with and alternate dimension (aka raw Fi?). i'm seriously confused as to how an extroverted display of feeling is actually .

[marooned]

i think the point is the qualities are *subdued* with the jackass crew, whereas the qualities are loud, out in the open, and rich. this is why i think the show itself is largely . beta is a quadra with subdued . this doesn't mean there isn't any (IEI especially has strong ). it just means that takes a back seat to .

also @Person most of your arguments hinge upon "i see socionics more deeply than you do."

[marooned]

Extroverted ethics is an extroverted, rational, and dynamic information element. It is also called Fe, E, the ethics of emotions, or black ethics. Fe is generally associated with the ability to recognize and convey (i.e. make others experience) passions, moods, and emotional states, generate excitement, liveliness, and feelings, get emotionally involved in activities and emotionally involve others, recognize and describe emotional interaction between people and groups, and build a sense of community and emotional unity.

it's kind of like what they do in jackass... i realize that each of the jackass crew has his own personal feelings, but they are all coming together to generate a certain emotional tone (or range of tones) and are definitely generating excitement. i seem to remember there's also a lot of bouncing off of one another's feelings.

Types that value Fe like creating a visible atmosphere of camaraderie with other people. They enjoy a loose atmosphere where anything goes, where people don't have to watch too carefully what they say for fear of offending others. This means these types try not to be too thin-skinned, taking jokes with a grain of salt.

huh. this is like totally what they do on jackass...

However, they are very conscious of the fact that the way something is said is very important to how it will be received, so they tend to add emphasis, embellishments, and exaggerations here and there to keep people engaged. The best way to say something is highly dependent on the situation and the implied purpose of the exchange, so of course levity is not appropriate in some situations.

they're often trying to be fairly offensive on jackass for the humor value, so they're not always guarding against possibly being received that way. though they may try to lessen the blow a bit, like whenever they harass those parents (forgot which jackass dude's parents).

Even after explosive arguments, these types find it hard to hold grudges, and can tolerate people they in principle don't like, as long as the situation is primarily social and doesn't require too close contact. They prefer misgivings to be out in the open; they believe that the silent treatment is one of the worst things you can do to a person, and only aggravates the underlying problem.

that fits.

Fe as Demonstrative Function (SEE, IEE)

The individual appreciates situations where people are enjoying a positive emotional atmosphere as in having fun and joking together, and is quite adept at creating them himself, but does not see creating or promoting them a top priority, nor does he actively look for people who maintain or need such an atmosphere; too high a focus on that is seen by the individual as overdone.

jackass is kinda like overdone in this way...

Fi as Creative Function (SEE, IEE)

The individual is very adept at perceiving, establishing, and maintaining personal bonds between people. However, these bonds are often perceived as being situational and flexible rather than static. The individual is inclined to focus on establishing personal bonds with other people in the context of realizing or following perceptions from his base function. The person easily creates a sense of closeness and kinship between people by expressing like and acceptance, but these sentiments are situational rather than an expression of permanent feelings. If the person's mood or external situation changes, he or she may "turn off" the feelings instantly, even forgetting whom they had created the feeling of kinship with.

they're ( cre) good at schmoozing, but also at quickly developing close personal interactions, which they can just let go of with ease. johnny knoxville isn't busy getting close to people or getting to their deepest heartfelt feelings. he's like making them eat until they barf and when they try to escape it, he's like "i didn't say stop bitch. KEEP EATING!" people on jackass are hardly often sentimental. i'm sure you can scour the episodes and find some moments here and there, but well, these are in fact still humans (despite appearances to the contrary).

Furthermore, a "show" doesn't have a type, because there is no brain.

Jackass is actually a very Gamma/Delta show

actually you are wrong @Person. a show cannot be a type. what is this nonsense? a person is a type. a person has a brain.

[marooned]

Actually, these Gamma/Delta individuals don't really do this at all. It's important to note how they don't actually value any use of Fe, only some of them. But you seem to define Fe as an after-effect of a type of comrodery and emotional expression, in other words, your understanding of psychology is very limited.

maybe you can't see it because you are polr.

This isn't a type, these are just the majority of people who are Gammas and Deltas.

the show conveys predominantly beta values is what *i* meant. you just prefer to condescend first and examine second?

[wacey]

Gamma SFs are probably the most fun types I ever have known and they truly frolic in the subjective feelings. Alphas and Betas are too busy trying to read and interpret the situation, while the Gammas and Deltas have all the fun.

It's sad but true

Would you talk about this more? because its is interesting.

[Aylen]

Aylen, your Socionics understanding is proving to be very simplistic and one-dimensional. You can't type me Fe valuing and Fi devaluing--you've got no idea how wrong that is. If you can't apply the same Fi of SEEs to all Fi types, you're doing something very wrong. The fact is, I was sincerely trying to comment about how you sometimes dig deeper while discussing this relational theory by using more correct orientations for the IEs, but that perhaps you mistype people because you're using very simplistic impressions in practice, but you're the one who chooses to take this disrespectfully. I can't tell if either you (a) don't know enough Gamma SFs and Delta NFs, or (b) you mistype them. The only way I know Alphas and Betas to celebrate in the ways above are through Fe, thus the responses come across very gauged and the effect put-on, often directly complemented by matters of the external feeling realm such as gossip and people-impressions and a general tendency to "set up the stage" and fool around--a process foreign to Fi. This is because Xe at the heart of it seeks establishment. Thus the term "celebration" is generally more apt for Fe quadras. It is fun for Fe types, but it is not the raw strong feelings of resonance, pleasure and bonds of Fi quadras, or more accurately, introverted feeling and serious fun, that is taken quite personally and unfiltered. Fe types seem more divided in their mind and objective about what is fun ime and what shouldn't be, and celebrating is often a matter of checking up on this standard and meeting it. For Fi types, there is no such definition. Fi is just the momentary feeling inside that escalates. I will try and repost what Golden and I said. My current guess is that you mistype some individuals. There's a slight chance the Fis and your family are repressed by the more synthesized lack of authentic expression by Fe which seeks to be "established" as outlet rather than flow individually from the inside, because when Fi valuers get together, it is tremendous fun. Introverted functions never seek external momentary establishment, which does make Fe come across stronger than Fi, because the feeling emphasis is valued (Xe) not the feelng source (Xi).Like I said, if you can't apply the same Fi of SEEs to all Fi types, you're doing something quite wrong. I also noticed some Te/Ti miscommunication in our interpretations of one another.

Also Aylen, you seem to take things very personally. Half of the things I commented on in my experiences weren't even about you, such as those who don't dig deeper into what a relational theory means and the construct of these IEs within the human psyche. This is probably why you responded the way you did. But I do think you demonstrate a ways to go in improving your understanding of the quadras. Things aren't so black-and-white as you make them to be in your above post. This is just clear, and I hope you can take what I said and learn something.

Darya, I don't have enough examples for ouronis to make a solid case atm, but I have impressions that he's definitely Ne subtype like myself, and probably EII > LII, a common misconception ime for male EIIs to identify with the theoretical deep-thinking tendencies of LII and lack of ethical concerns, while being the starkly soft, personable and resonating feeling type by contrast (someone more obviously an F than someone who has certain self-defined concepts of how Fs should be,) who has clear valuing tendencies for Te and Fi and not Fe. I don't know ouronis 100%. In his case, this is not so obvious from his lack of participation insomuch as his Delta values come across well-oriented to me via his syntax and focal points. Individuals in the past on this forum have noted several self-typed LIIs who we think are more-likely EII.

See you do this all the time... You post a response to me, or others, saying something one way that IS insulting, then you come back and edit your post to sound less reactive, then add a bit more to sound more rational. Your initial responses are often a bit irrational but that makes sense. You are a "feeler" after all. Just try to add a mention so that I see your edits. I have nothing against the edits. I do it all the time but I do say that I have edited if I change it significantly. I appreciate that you took my advice to heart when I asked you to think before you post to me but at least let me know when you change your post so I can see it. I only saw this edit because you quoted me in another post.

I didn't take it personal until you started condescending to me. I was sharing my experiences of real people who are more complex than you think. You say it but I don't think you realize it yet.

Your perception IS very subjective. Doesn't mean you can't rationalize it. Your whole typing approach is very subjective and so is mine. I don't see socionics as black and white as you now claim.

You are basically just parroting my perception of you back to me. I tell you a couple weeks ago that your understanding is very "one dimensional" and now you say to me that my understanding is "one dimensional". I call your way "black and white. You respond that my way is "black and white". You set the tone of our interactions. I am responding to the energy you are projecting. Now I mention your polr and you respond by mentioning my polr.

I guess I don't expect you to make a firm point because of Te-PoLR, but throw out wavering possibilities and impressions, in this case giving them an air of vigor and open-mindedness--so perhaps I shouldn't bother trying to understand your logic, but assume Socionics for you is completely variable and context dependent (?)

I asked if I hit your polr because of your reaction, before you came back and edited your whole post. Our conversations will never be productive because of your superiority complex. Like I said if I learn something new, I will give you a "constructive".

All the descriptions of functions are overly simplistic but it is the common language here and the starting point of not only understanding each other, but others understanding what we are talking about.

So again I ask, did I hit your polr? Because I think I might have.

Se as Vulnerable Function

The individual tends to overreact to aggressive or confrontational behavior, taking it as a personal threat when it may only be a knee-jerk reaction or the result of a bad mood. He tends to avoid intruding on others' space or engaging in behavior that may be perceived as coercive, and tries hard to handle his needs by being disciplined and well-prepared himself - rather than relying on others to do things for him. If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.

He is able to moralize and instruct others about what they should do and why, but he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do.

And don't get your panties in a twist. I don't disagree with your self assessment that you are Delta, at least when it comes to my experience of some Delta types, but they are usually Delta STs. I have an EII uncle and I have seen his reactive side as well. I still think he is like the best person I know and very intelligent. He is probably 3 times your age so who knows what the future holds for you.

Edit: Your cognitive functions may not be fully set, yet, according to some theories.

[Aylen]

maybe you can't see it because you are polr.

After reading his posts in this thread, I imagine him something like this.

[wacey]

@Person

Both sounds good.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I really do see what Person is saying here... I mean I'm Beta but I never was a fan of Jackass. Admittedly, it was too straight boy ish for me. Although there is a lot of homoeroticsm in the show, and the dudes kinda look like they could be in Treasure Island Media vids- they never actually fuck each other (boring!), just do typical straight boy ish things like play physical pranks on each other and then giggle about it. I thought it was too goofy and dumb - and I snub my nose at it the way Subterranean might snub his nose at American cuisine or something. (I'm just playfully ribbing on Subt there, I don't know if he would actually do that lol I'm trying to make a point here.)

I don't like people on here always assuming that just because something is over the top or stereotypically Fe (don't take that personally inumbra I know it's not just you, but all of us), means that it will be a Beta value or something... or mean it seriously. Because idk. Fe valuers can be snooty and contained too with the level of immaturity we are willing to handle. I don't know if this is even related to socionics... it's like, I remember me and my best friend getting into this huge argument once about me liking really bad Rugrats sex fic. (yeah we actually got into a huge serious fight over Rugrats lmao life is funny...and I remember her liking Jackass too and not liking corny Rugrats fic, the opposite of me.) For some people Jackass is cool and entertaining... just like how I found Tommy raping Angelica to be hilarious- but to some people, that was immature and they felt serious empathy for a fake cartoon character because Angelica was considered to be a complicated character for some that they could relate to on a personal level. But I am losing my train of thought here.

Anyways the sad part of this forum is that most of you think you are being insightful but really, you are actually paying attention too much to the shell of a person, place or thing. You're not seeing how X could fuck you over or how Y could help you out, because your egos are too attached to the definitions of what X and Y are. I'm not any better in this regard, but I'm trying to be. Sort of. My last therapist was a dick and I didn't really personally like him but he was right when he said I was too shallow. I don't think Person is trying to come off like 'ooh I am a better than you are Holy Priest, so deep and insightful' or anything. I've always silently respected him. Maybe I'm delta after all haha.